A challenge to anyone working at Bioware

[FerreusSteelTip]

I want someone official. Be it Eric or whoever. To answer this question:

 

Why has in all the updates to date, the shadow/assassin NEVER been nerfed?. When clearly there has, and still is a need for it.

Since the announcement of season 4, we've already caught glimpses of ranked. Even regs. So many games with 6+ assassins/shadows

In ranked, teams of 3+ shadows/assassins.

 

I want to know. When are you going to nerf them? And if you're not. I want to know why. What data are you pulling from to decide?

Because right now. Shadows/sins have the extra seconds on shroud. The ability to shroud on disappear. Turn deflection into yet another shroud.

They have the heals from their dots and deathfield. Heals from leeching strike. They do not only pressure well, but have considerably single target burst WITH a pretty good AoE in deathfield.

They can disappear, bounce root, sprint with immunity, and phase walk away.

 

I have a second question. Why give shadows the same utilities as sorcs? As in the immunity sprint and the root bounce?

Third question. If you respond, and if you say shadows/assassins are working as intended. Then are you intending to have an uber class? One that can do almost anything?

Because here is what you have atm. You have a class with 4a dcds, 2 escapes, 5 ccs (maybe six), two self heals. Steady little self heals. The ability to taunt. The ONLY class in the game with so much CC immunity that one can barely find a window to cc them. Rooting and slowing is pointless.

They can stack dots, aoe hard, and unleash single target burst.

all might I add IN A STEALTH CLASS

where you can't see them coming, thus can't avoid (most the time) their opening.

A lot are running this now. Causing incredible imbalance. Three or more hatred assassins opening with dot, deathfield an dot spread, and yes...a team of non assassins/shadows will then be at a disadvantage the rest of the game.

In team ranked. You have two staple composition. You have pressure comps. Meant to wear the healer out. And you have burst comps, meant to take the tank off guard and burn someone.

Two hatred assassins can be both bursty and add pressure. Giving the team using them essentially both compositions in one.

 

SO AGAIN. If and when will you be nerfing assassins?....ever?

[DrWeebs]

I want someone official. Be it Eric or whoever. To answer this question:

 

Why has in all the updates to date, the shadow/assassin NEVER been nerfed?. When clearly there has, and still is a need for it.

Since the announcement of season 4, we've already caught glimpses of ranked. Even regs. So many games with 6+ assassins/shadows

In ranked, teams of 3+ shadows/assassins.

 

I want to know. When are you going to nerf them? And if you're not. I want to know why. What data are you pulling from to decide?

Because right now. Shadows/sins have the extra seconds on shroud. The ability to shroud on disappear. Turn deflection into yet another shroud.

They have the heals from their dots and deathfield. Heals from leeching strike. They do not only pressure well, but have considerably single target burst WITH a pretty good AoE in deathfield.

They can disappear, bounce root, sprint with immunity, and phase walk away.

 

I have a second question. Why give shadows the same utilities as sorcs? As in the immunity sprint and the root bounce?

Third question. If you respond, and if you say shadows/assassins are working as intended. Then are you intending to have an uber class? One that can do almost anything?

Because here is what you have atm. You have a class with 4a dcds, 2 escapes, 5 ccs (maybe six), two self heals. Steady little self heals. The ability to taunt. The ONLY class in the game with so much CC immunity that one can barely find a window to cc them. Rooting and slowing is pointless.

They can stack dots, aoe hard, and unleash single target burst.

all might I add IN A STEALTH CLASS

where you can't see them coming, thus can't avoid (most the time) their opening.

A lot are running this now. Causing incredible imbalance. Three or more hatred assassins opening with dot, deathfield an dot spread, and yes...a team of non assassins/shadows will then be at a disadvantage the rest of the game.

In team ranked. You have two staple composition. You have pressure comps. Meant to wear the healer out. And you have burst comps, meant to take the tank off guard and burn someone.

Two hatred assassins can be both bursty and add pressure. Giving the team using them essentially both compositions in one.

 

SO AGAIN. If and when will you be nerfing assassins?....ever?

 

Assassins are fine. If anything they need a buff.

[johanlofdahl]

In ranked, teams of 3+ shadows/assassins.

 

Maybe this is the problem, it has been to long and everyone rerolled a shadow/sin so if they nerf them they will anger 75% of the pvp player base.

[FrumpytheClown]

I want someone official. Be it Eric or whoever. To answer this question:

 

Why has in all the updates to date, the shadow/assassin NEVER been nerfed?. When clearly there has, and still is a need for it.

Since the announcement of season 4, we've already caught glimpses of ranked. Even regs. So many games with 6+ assassins/shadows

In ranked, teams of 3+ shadows/assassins.

 

I want to know. When are you going to nerf them? And if you're not. I want to know why. What data are you pulling from to decide?

Because right now. Shadows/sins have the extra seconds on shroud. The ability to shroud on disappear. Turn deflection into yet another shroud.

They have the heals from their dots and deathfield. Heals from leeching strike. They do not only pressure well, but have considerably single target burst WITH a pretty good AoE in deathfield.

They can disappear, bounce root, sprint with immunity, and phase walk away.

 

I have a second question. Why give shadows the same utilities as sorcs? As in the immunity sprint and the root bounce?

Third question. If you respond, and if you say shadows/assassins are working as intended. Then are you intending to have an uber class? One that can do almost anything?

Because here is what you have atm. You have a class with 4a dcds, 2 escapes, 5 ccs (maybe six), two self heals. Steady little self heals. The ability to taunt. The ONLY class in the game with so much CC immunity that one can barely find a window to cc them. Rooting and slowing is pointless.

They can stack dots, aoe hard, and unleash single target burst.

all might I add IN A STEALTH CLASS

where you can't see them coming, thus can't avoid (most the time) their opening.

A lot are running this now. Causing incredible imbalance. Three or more hatred assassins opening with dot, deathfield an dot spread, and yes...a team of non assassins/shadows will then be at a disadvantage the rest of the game.

In team ranked. You have two staple composition. You have pressure comps. Meant to wear the healer out. And you have burst comps, meant to take the tank off guard and burn someone.

Two hatred assassins can be both bursty and add pressure. Giving the team using them essentially both compositions in one.

 

SO AGAIN. If and when will you be nerfing assassins?....ever?

 

I agree with this. But any cloaker class has these kinds of advantages. You have to be BAD at playing a cloaker class to not do basic good. Competent people rape face with a cloaker, simply because they are an easy mode class.

[MotorCityMan]

Get 2 monitors and go AFK while guarding something in warzones and play GW2 on the other screen. Just type in inc when you see your character getting killed., Everyone knows you're gonna get ganked by a sin and can't do anything anyways.

 

Bioware pvp problems solved.

Edited February 6, 2015 by MotorCityMan

[Kayriel]

I just have one question : Why did you start yet another thread about assassin nerfs , instead of going to the PTS forum and posting a thread about the necessary buffs that the other classes need to be brought up to the hatred discipline's level ? I am not saying the discipline is perfect in the current state of the game , but the trend of the guys at Byoware , is to buff classes that are in need , rather than nerf them and this has been going on for about half a year before 3.0 came live.

 

My suggestion would be to try and focus on the class that you like to play as your main and bring in suggestions that would make it viable and up to par with hatred.

 

Also , i am not trying to be condescending or anything like that , but i would really like to understand where did you pull the numbers for the cooldowns that the class has .

 

As far as i remember , the assassin has 3 DCDs in any spec ( Deflection for all ; Shroud for all ; and depending on the discipline , 1 more DCD built into either Overcharge Saber for Darkness ; Blackout for Deception or Mass Mind control for Hatred ) , so which one am i missing , because unless you found a way to get a DCD from another Discipline , i count only 3 at any given time.

 

2 Escapes is spot on , with Cloak and Phase walk.

 

5 maybe 6 CCs ? Are you counting roots and slows in here , because if you do , then i think all classes kind of have access to 1-2 more roots and slows built into their attacks( unless i am missing something , in which case , please correct me ) :

- PTs , have a 50% slow that can be attached to their Magnetic Blast/Flame Burst ;

-Operatives get a 2 second root option to sever tendon besides their build in CCs like Aoe mez grenade , Speeping Dart Cripling Slice if Concealment and of course Debilitate , which has the ability to become the shorted CD stun in the game ,

- Mercs get Concussion Missile, Jet boost , Electro net , Electro Dart , a Rocket Punch with root , if in Arsenal.

 

I could go on , but i suppose that you get where i am trying to go with this

 

As a last note , the burst of a hatred assassin doesn't even come close to what an AP PT can pump out , as for the DoTs , there are only 2 of them that can be spread around , something that i think is shared with all the classes that have a Discipline with DoTs, the major difference being in the way that each class can spread those DoTs , with Melee focused ones like Juggernaut and Marauder having to be in melee range to do it, PT relatively the same way , and with the Raged guys having te option of being ranged ; with the assassin having to be in a 10m range of his targets , so both dots can be applied and spread.

 

I am not saying that the class is ok in its current state , but instead of the constant moaning about it , the threads posted should be directed at trying to fix the classes that are lacking in the respective areas , since , like i said earlier , the trend from the guys at Byoware , is to buff the classes that are in need of one , instead of nerfing them.

[Brunner_Venda]

Can't tell if Bioware combat team is trolling, stupid, or what?

 

I can only assume that they are doing this bad of a job on purpose.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Brunner_Venda

[MotorCityMan]

the trend from the guys at Byoware , is to buff the classes that are in need of one , instead of nerfing them.

 

Is that so? See nerfs to Pts/Vans 3.1.1 and nerfs to Ops/smugs heals 3.0, maras, massive nerf to Orbital Strike, etc, etc.

 

The trend is to over react and nerf things into oblivion, ala the countraband slot machine, instead of thinking creatively and making minor adjustments.

Edited February 6, 2015 by MotorCityMan

[Kayriel]

Is that so? See nerfs to Pts/Vans 3.1.1 and nerfs to Ops/smugs heals 3.0, maras, massive nerf to Orbital Strike, etc, etc.

 

The trend is to over react and nerf things into oblivion, ala the countraband slot machine, instead of thinking creatively and making minor adjustments.

 

 

The so called nerf to PTs in the 3.1.1 patch isn't really going to affect their burst that much now is there ? Removing unload from the AC , a skill that AP rarely , if ever used in combat , isn't really a nerf , since their burst didn't come from that . The only nerf that i can think of to the PT , would be the latest thing added in the patch notes , the increase of the ICD of the shoulder cannon , from 0.5 seconds to 1.5 i think , so basically giving the skill an internal CD.

 

I do not play marauder at all , so i can't comment on this AC

 

Operative healers were a tiny bit overtuned before 3.0 and if the spec remained as it was before the xpac and got the new aoe heals on top of that , the spec would literally become unkillable , also , as far as i could see in warzones , the AC in healer spec is still quite good.

Also , for operatives , the buffs to Concealment were apparently forgotten , the spec is strong now , it still needs some survivability boost i think , but for a burst spec , the dmg output in single target is quite high , comparable to Deception , with a few variances on play styles of the ACs .

 

As for orbital strike, not sure what to say , on the rare ocazions i played my operative i used urbital strike as an area denial skill , but the crits that the ability was able to pump out , put all other AOE skills in the game to shame.

 

Haven't gotten to play all my alts through the new content yet, since i am still doing progression ops with my Deception Assassin and Vengeance Juggernaut and getting their pvp gear optimized, but after all the threads i've seen crop up on the forums , with nerf this , nerf that and due to this BW tending to over react , like you pointed out , i am inclined to believe that the shouts and cryes for nerfs , are damaging the game , more than helping it.

 

I am going to bring up an example of what our Assassin Class rep did for Hatred ( formerly Madness ) pre xpac and say , that if a discipline from your class is not working properly , try to bring it to the attention of the devs inside the game. Shinarika organized an event where she asked all the assassins to play as Madness for a day or 2 , so that the Devs could gather their data from warzones and arenas , where the spec was performing poorly and with after that event the BW guys started to make changes to the spec.

 

I also feel that i must mention the fact that that i am not saying that some specs don't need to be addressed ; I am trying to say that instead of crying Wolf , try to come up with constructive threads and suggestions that take into account both aspects of the game ( pve and pvp ) and if you go after a discipline that is now your own , try to at least stay informed of the skills and abilities that the class has ( i mentioned my confusion about the number of DCDs and so on and i am still awaiting for a response to that ).

[Brunner_Venda]

I just have one question : Why did you start yet another thread about assassin nerfs , instead of going to the PTS forum and posting a thread about the necessary buffs that the other classes need to be brought up to the hatred discipline's level ? I am not saying the discipline is perfect in the current state of the game , but the trend of the guys at Byoware , is to buff classes that are in need , rather than nerf them and this has been going on for about half a year before 3.0 came live.

 

My suggestion would be to try and focus on the class that you like to play as your main and bring in suggestions that would make it viable and up to par with hatred.

 

Also , i am not trying to be condescending or anything like that , but i would really like to understand where did you pull the numbers for the cooldowns that the class has .

 

As far as i remember , the assassin has 3 DCDs in any spec ( Deflection for all ; Shroud for all ; and depending on the discipline , 1 more DCD built into either Overcharge Saber for Darkness ; Blackout for Deception or Mass Mind control for Hatred ) , so which one am i missing , because unless you found a way to get a DCD from another Discipline , i count only 3 at any given time.

 

2 Escapes is spot on , with Cloak and Phase walk.

 

5 maybe 6 CCs ? Are you counting roots and slows in here , because if you do , then i think all classes kind of have access to 1-2 more roots and slows built into their attacks( unless i am missing something , in which case , please correct me ) :

- PTs , have a 50% slow that can be attached to their Magnetic Blast/Flame Burst ;

-Operatives get a 2 second root option to sever tendon besides their build in CCs like Aoe mez grenade , Speeping Dart Cripling Slice if Concealment and of course Debilitate , which has the ability to become the shorted CD stun in the game ,

- Mercs get Concussion Missile, Jet boost , Electro net , Electro Dart , a Rocket Punch with root , if in Arsenal.

 

I could go on , but i suppose that you get where i am trying to go with this

 

As a last note , the burst of a hatred assassin doesn't even come close to what an AP PT can pump out , as for the DoTs , there are only 2 of them that can be spread around , something that i think is shared with all the classes that have a Discipline with DoTs, the major difference being in the way that each class can spread those DoTs , with Melee focused ones like Juggernaut and Marauder having to be in melee range to do it, PT relatively the same way , and with the Raged guys having te option of being ranged ; with the assassin having to be in a 10m range of his targets , so both dots can be applied and spread.

 

I am not saying that the class is ok in its current state , but instead of the constant moaning about it , the threads posted should be directed at trying to fix the classes that are lacking in the respective areas , since , like i said earlier , the trend from the guys at Byoware , is to buff the classes that are in need of one , instead of nerfing them.

 

Why don't we buff everyone to assassin level?

 

Because you would have to give every class stealth, 20 seconds of God mode, dots to spread on everyone, high burst, and a couple of escapes.

 

Well, that's ridiculous right?

 

Exactly.

[DarthHarlem]

I want someone official. Be it Eric or whoever. To answer this question:

 

Why has in all the updates to date, the shadow/assassin NEVER been nerfed?. When clearly there has, and still is a need for it.

Since the announcement of season 4, we've already caught glimpses of ranked. Even regs. So many games with 6+ assassins/shadows

In ranked, teams of 3+ shadows/assassins.

 

I want to know. When are you going to nerf them? And if you're not. I want to know why. What data are you pulling from to decide?

Because right now. Shadows/sins have the extra seconds on shroud. The ability to shroud on disappear. Turn deflection into yet another shroud.

They have the heals from their dots and deathfield. Heals from leeching strike. They do not only pressure well, but have considerably single target burst WITH a pretty good AoE in deathfield.

They can disappear, bounce root, sprint with immunity, and phase walk away.

 

I have a second question. Why give shadows the same utilities as sorcs? As in the immunity sprint and the root bounce?

Third question. If you respond, and if you say shadows/assassins are working as intended. Then are you intending to have an uber class? One that can do almost anything?

Because here is what you have atm. You have a class with 4a dcds, 2 escapes, 5 ccs (maybe six), two self heals. Steady little self heals. The ability to taunt. The ONLY class in the game with so much CC immunity that one can barely find a window to cc them. Rooting and slowing is pointless.

They can stack dots, aoe hard, and unleash single target burst.

all might I add IN A STEALTH CLASS

where you can't see them coming, thus can't avoid (most the time) their opening.

A lot are running this now. Causing incredible imbalance. Three or more hatred assassins opening with dot, deathfield an dot spread, and yes...a team of non assassins/shadows will then be at a disadvantage the rest of the game.

In team ranked. You have two staple composition. You have pressure comps. Meant to wear the healer out. And you have burst comps, meant to take the tank off guard and burn someone.

Two hatred assassins can be both bursty and add pressure. Giving the team using them essentially both compositions in one.

 

SO AGAIN. If and when will you be nerfing assassins?....ever?

 

I'm somewhat new to pvp in this game. Been doing it for a month or longer now? I'm not sure, but I will say that I have had moments in guild or talking to others after fighting a shadow trying to understand the design of the class. Not being new to pvp or pvp mmos, some of the mechanics and abilities in this one class seem a bit silly. But I only measure that from my long list of former games versus my time spent in this game and as a Trooper. Ultimately, I have to lean to agree with the OP that there might need a second look at this class.

 

But then again, it really boggles the mind that every single mmo has class balance but you can always narrow one, some, or all down to just silly design. You'd think with all of the rich information out on former games, this would never happen. To be fair, I can blast down shadow's but there is clearly a undeniable ability difference.

[Savej]

BW doesn't read here much nor threads with vague and trollish subject phrasing. I'm not saying 97%+ of the people posting on this board don't agree that sins (hatred esp) need a nerf, but you have a microscopic chance of getting a response, especially on a Friday afternoon...

[DarthHarlem]

BW doesn't read here much nor threads with vague and trollish subject phrasing. I'm not saying 97%+ of the people posting on this board don't agree that sins (hatred esp) need a nerf, but you have a microscopic chance of getting a response, especially on a Friday afternoon...

 

I have a fair question. How do you know that?

 

Are you a Bioware employee? I think its safe to say if you are not a Bioware employee or a contractor within their halls, you are assuming with your post. I mean no harm, just making a logical response, that if you are not an employee than you have no idea how they address forum posts.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I have a fair question. How do you know that?

 

Steting the obvious : There is actually happening so little regarding obvious problems - and what gets fixed needs MONTHS for fixing.

 

Like the Shoulder Cannon, for example.

[Savej]

I have a fair question. How do you know that?

 

Are you a Bioware employee? I think its safe to say if you are not a Bioware employee or a contractor within their halls, you are assuming with your post. I mean no harm, just making a logical response, that if you are not an employee than you have no idea how they address forum posts.

 

Because posts here do not get responses. Dev announcements and requests here get few if any followup responses. Even a recent, major exploit discovery announcement made here on a thurs, with lots of replies to keep it on top, did not get addressed in any way until it got linked on reddit a couple days later. The first responses were thread deletions that were slow. In the 3.0 dev streams at least one non-community rep let it slip that he didn't follow this board (no crime but the admission was there).

 

Given years of very sparse activity and limited response to issues raised here, combined with the very very lethargic response to immediate problems raised on more than one occasion, my benefit of the doubt is gone. I need proof to be convinced otherwise. I'm not saying I blame the BW reps: every one that tried to post/participate here got flamed for it in short order, and this board is full of trolls, politicians and contradictory info, but the situation is what it is.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Savej

[Kayriel]

Why don't we buff everyone to assassin level?

 

Because you would have to give every class stealth, 20 seconds of God mode, dots to spread on everyone, high burst, and a couple of escapes.

 

Well, that's ridiculous right?

 

Exactly.

 

I am trying to figure out if you are joking or you actually throw out random numbers at me , just to try to make a point.

 

First off , please tell me if you played this game since vanilla early access and please show me any threads from that period of time where STEALTH was considered a threat ( for the 1.0 to 2.0 period ) , from 2.0 until 3.0 i really don't remember any calls to arms against assassins STEALTH either , so this is really.... pointless.

 

20 seconds of god mode - lets see here : 12 seconds of STUN and MEZ immunity( not roots or slows ) + 5 seconds of Force and Tech immunity = 17 seconds where you can mitigate damage types and can negate certain types of CCs . something i can almost guarantee is not going to happen in that order , since a lot of classes can switch between white damage and force/tech damage and the assassin still take hits , i am thinking you are confusing these 2 skills with the Sniper's Entrench skill which does actually provide them with 20 seconds of immunity to all controlling effects on a 1 minute CD , but that is a different class which has its own problems so lets leave it out.

 

Dots to spread of everyone - all classes that have a DOT spec , have a way of spreading them around to everyone , as you put it , its just dependent of the play style of the AC , sorcs , mercs and snipers do it from range , PTs and Sins do it from mid range and melee guys , you guessed it , do it from melee range. So what is your point with this ?

 

High Burst - Hatred's burst is nothing to write home about compared to proper burst specs like AP PT , Deception , Concealment , have you actually fought a good Deception of Concealment character ? you will loose @ 60% of your HP when they open on you and they still don't compare to what PTs can pump out.

 

A couple of escapes - by this i am guessing you mean Phase walk and Force Cloak , of which , one is again on a 2 minute CD ( unless specced into the utility for 30 seconds reduction ) and one is still situational and can still get you killed , since the travel time of any attack that is already coming toward you when you phase walked , will still hit you when you arrive ?

 

Again , i have to ask , what is your point , would you advocate removing the vanish from operatives as well ? They have a Cloak equivalent as well and a roll on top of that , should we remove those 2 skills from them as well ?

 

Marauders have a vanish for 4 seconds that has a speed and dmg reduction boost attached to it , would you like to remove that as well ?

 

Snipers get a 18 meter roll on a 20 seconds CD , with a 100% dodge increase attached as a baseline for the entire AC , should we get that **** out as well , because they have a tool to escape melee classes on a comparatively short CD to other tools that perform a similar function ?

 

Please stop writing stuff that you clearly have not taken the time to investigate and judge solely based on you narrow and uninformed view point. Take a bit of time to research the class that you harbor so much discontent against , think about how the changes you propose impact both aspects of the game , and then come here and post your opinion.

 

For instance , instead picking up the pitch fork against the assassin , you could propose a constructive change , like for instance , reduce the uptime of Dark Stability ( the Utility that grants Deflection its stun immunity ) , from 12 seconds , to maybe 6-8 , mathy stuff is not my forte so i leave that to the Devs.

 

Also , maybe , if you view the self heals that the assassin gets as a problem , you could suggest that the DOTS should heal maybe 10-15% of their damage done , instead of 25%.

 

Again i must insist that i would rather have the other classes be buffed up to par , rather than seeing on spec brought down to the ground , since , like MotorCityMan said already , BW kind of tends to over react to nerf cries and over do it and then the spec tends to stay in the gutter and recuperate in the next expansion , if at all.

[Transcendent]

but the trend of the guys at Byoware , is to buff classes that are in need , rather than nerf them

 

What game are you playing?

[SgtJeremy]

Why don't we buff everyone to assassin level?

 

Because you would have to give every class stealth, 20 seconds of God mode, dots to spread on everyone, high burst, and a couple of escapes.

 

Well, that's ridiculous right?

 

Exactly.

 

Because the battles would be short having a bunch of over powered people running around. This isn't CoD.

[DarthHarlem]

Why don't we buff everyone to assassin level?

 

Because you would have to give every class stealth, 20 seconds of God mode, dots to spread on everyone, high burst, and a couple of escapes.

 

Well, that's ridiculous right?

 

Exactly.

 

Haha, this is pretty funny. No, I don't mean in a disagreeing way. Just funny how it reads.

[Kayriel]

What game are you playing?

 

If i remember correctly , some of the last patches that came before 3.0 have brought buffs to concealment ( some bizarre changes as well , like the replacement of the knockdown with a root )

 

Madness Assassins received some attention before the xpac as well , the spec was kind of garbage in pvp for almost a year and was still lacking some stuff before 3.0 , but it was going in the right direction.

 

Juggernauts in general received a buff to their suvivability , with the change to their Enraged Defense.

 

Not to mention the game wide buffs that a lot of classes got with 3.0 , like ranged classes mobility and so on.

 

These are just a couple of the change of the top of my head , that made me say that the TREND is to buff , but if you have a counter argument , please tell me , i am sure there are changes i overlooked , i can't remember all the patch notes by heart , but if you say that i am wrong , please correct me.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Kayriel
typos

[FerreusSteelTip]

Maybe this is the problem, it has been to long and everyone rerolled a shadow/sin so if they nerf them they will anger 75% of the pvp player base.

They have other alts. And this isn't Star Wars Shadow Games

they can get angry.

[FerreusSteelTip]

I just have one question : Why did you start yet another thread about assassin nerfs , instead of going to the PTS forum and posting a thread about the necessary buffs that the other classes need to be brought up to the hatred discipline's level ? I am not saying the discipline is perfect in the current state of the game , but the trend of the guys at Byoware , is to buff classes that are in need , rather than nerf them and this has been going on for about half a year before 3.0 came live.

 

My suggestion would be to try and focus on the class that you like to play as your main and bring in suggestions that would make it viable and up to par with hatred.

 

Also , i am not trying to be condescending or anything like that , but i would really like to understand where did you pull the numbers for the cooldowns that the class has .

 

As far as i remember , the assassin has 3 DCDs in any spec ( Deflection for all ; Shroud for all ; and depending on the discipline , 1 more DCD built into either Overcharge Saber for Darkness ; Blackout for Deception or Mass Mind control for Hatred ) , so which one am i missing , because unless you found a way to get a DCD from another Discipline , i count only 3 at any given time.

 

2 Escapes is spot on , with Cloak and Phase walk.

 

5 maybe 6 CCs ? Are you counting roots and slows in here , because if you do , then i think all classes kind of have access to 1-2 more roots and slows built into their attacks( unless i am missing something , in which case , please correct me ) :

- PTs , have a 50% slow that can be attached to their Magnetic Blast/Flame Burst ;

-Operatives get a 2 second root option to sever tendon besides their build in CCs like Aoe mez grenade , Speeping Dart Cripling Slice if Concealment and of course Debilitate , which has the ability to become the shorted CD stun in the game ,

- Mercs get Concussion Missile, Jet boost , Electro net , Electro Dart , a Rocket Punch with root , if in Arsenal.

 

I could go on , but i suppose that you get where i am trying to go with this

 

As a last note , the burst of a hatred assassin doesn't even come close to what an AP PT can pump out , as for the DoTs , there are only 2 of them that can be spread around , something that i think is shared with all the classes that have a Discipline with DoTs, the major difference being in the way that each class can spread those DoTs , with Melee focused ones like Juggernaut and Marauder having to be in melee range to do it, PT relatively the same way , and with the Raged guys having te option of being ranged ; with the assassin having to be in a 10m range of his targets , so both dots can be applied and spread.

 

I am not saying that the class is ok in its current state , but instead of the constant moaning about it , the threads posted should be directed at trying to fix the classes that are lacking in the respective areas , since , like i said earlier , the trend from the guys at Byoware , is to buff the classes that are in need of one , instead of nerfing them.

 

don't forget their aoe taunt that increases dmg reduction by what is it now, 30%?

 

anyways. What game have you been playing? They haven't buffed the classes that need it lol

They nerfed snipers HARD when they took Orbital strike and made it so weak, you can stand in it for days. It's the equivalent to a tanking PT doing death from above. That's how weak Orbital strike is now. WHICH is dumb considering the name, the animation, and how devastating they make the NPC's version lol

They also haven't given the snipers any kind of decent dcd that helps them avoid the certain global of 3+ assassins in arenas. AND THAT is what they would have to do. Buff the other classes defenses to a point they can survive multiple assassins jumping them.

Because how they have it now. 75% -80% of the pvpers will run assassins due to the OPness of them.

 

Also, they haven't buffed merc. They're gonna give maras a slight buff soon.

Whereas assassins they buff all the time even when the community has said time and again they needed nerfed.

 

Oh an CC I count as stuns, roots, and slows. Something a sin has a LOT of. Guardian probably has close to the same amount, but I'm adding all that cc to a class like a sin who has as much cc immunity.

[FerreusSteelTip]

The so called nerf to PTs in the 3.1.1 patch isn't really going to affect their burst that much now is there ? Removing unload from the AC , a skill that AP rarely , if ever used in combat , isn't really a nerf , since their burst didn't come from that . The only nerf that i can think of to the PT , would be the latest thing added in the patch notes , the increase of the ICD of the shoulder cannon , from 0.5 seconds to 1.5 i think , so basically giving the skill an internal CD.

 

I do not play marauder at all , so i can't comment on this AC

 

Operative healers were a tiny bit overtuned before 3.0 and if the spec remained as it was before the xpac and got the new aoe heals on top of that , the spec would literally become unkillable , also , as far as i could see in warzones , the AC in healer spec is still quite good.

Also , for operatives , the buffs to Concealment were apparently forgotten , the spec is strong now , it still needs some survivability boost i think , but for a burst spec , the dmg output in single target is quite high , comparable to Deception , with a few variances on play styles of the ACs .

 

As for orbital strike, not sure what to say , on the rare ocazions i played my operative i used urbital strike as an area denial skill , but the crits that the ability was able to pump out , put all other AOE skills in the game to shame.

 

Haven't gotten to play all my alts through the new content yet, since i am still doing progression ops with my Deception Assassin and Vengeance Juggernaut and getting their pvp gear optimized, but after all the threads i've seen crop up on the forums , with nerf this , nerf that and due to this BW tending to over react , like you pointed out , i am inclined to believe that the shouts and cryes for nerfs , are damaging the game , more than helping it.

 

I am going to bring up an example of what our Assassin Class rep did for Hatred ( formerly Madness ) pre xpac and say , that if a discipline from your class is not working properly , try to bring it to the attention of the devs inside the game. Shinarika organized an event where she asked all the assassins to play as Madness for a day or 2 , so that the Devs could gather their data from warzones and arenas , where the spec was performing poorly and with after that event the BW guys started to make changes to the spec.

 

I also feel that i must mention the fact that that i am not saying that some specs don't need to be addressed ; I am trying to say that instead of crying Wolf , try to come up with constructive threads and suggestions that take into account both aspects of the game ( pve and pvp ) and if you go after a discipline that is now your own , try to at least stay informed of the skills and abilities that the class has ( i mentioned my confusion about the number of DCDs and so on and i am still awaiting for a response to that ).

 

Um the nerf to shoulder rockets does effect their burst actually. Atm they are able to unload massive burst and practically global someone in the span of seconds.

it needed nerfed.

BUT so do assassins. Argue all you like. I won't even read it. The class is a faceroll class. Anyone with any experience can see that.

[FerreusSteelTip]

I am trying to figure out if you are joking or you actually throw out random numbers at me , just to try to make a point.

 

First off , please tell me if you played this game since vanilla early access and please show me any threads from that period of time where STEALTH was considered a threat ( for the 1.0 to 2.0 period ) , from 2.0 until 3.0 i really don't remember any calls to arms against assassins STEALTH either , so this is really.... pointless.

 

20 seconds of god mode - lets see here : 12 seconds of STUN and MEZ immunity( not roots or slows ) + 5 seconds of Force and Tech immunity = 17 seconds where you can mitigate damage types and can negate certain types of CCs . something i can almost guarantee is not going to happen in that order , since a lot of classes can switch between white damage and force/tech damage and the assassin still take hits , i am thinking you are confusing these 2 skills with the Sniper's Entrench skill which does actually provide them with 20 seconds of immunity to all controlling effects on a 1 minute CD , but that is a different class which has its own problems so lets leave it out.

 

Dots to spread of everyone - all classes that have a DOT spec , have a way of spreading them around to everyone , as you put it , its just dependent of the play style of the AC , sorcs , mercs and snipers do it from range , PTs and Sins do it from mid range and melee guys , you guessed it , do it from melee range. So what is your point with this ?

 

High Burst - Hatred's burst is nothing to write home about compared to proper burst specs like AP PT , Deception , Concealment , have you actually fought a good Deception of Concealment character ? you will loose @ 60% of your HP when they open on you and they still don't compare to what PTs can pump out.

 

A couple of escapes - by this i am guessing you mean Phase walk and Force Cloak , of which , one is again on a 2 minute CD ( unless specced into the utility for 30 seconds reduction ) and one is still situational and can still get you killed , since the travel time of any attack that is already coming toward you when you phase walked , will still hit you when you arrive ?

 

Again , i have to ask , what is your point , would you advocate removing the vanish from operatives as well ? They have a Cloak equivalent as well and a roll on top of that , should we remove those 2 skills from them as well ?

 

Marauders have a vanish for 4 seconds that has a speed and dmg reduction boost attached to it , would you like to remove that as well ?

 

Snipers get a 18 meter roll on a 20 seconds CD , with a 100% dodge increase attached as a baseline for the entire AC , should we get that **** out as well , because they have a tool to escape melee classes on a comparatively short CD to other tools that perform a similar function ?

 

Please stop writing stuff that you clearly have not taken the time to investigate and judge solely based on you narrow and uninformed view point. Take a bit of time to research the class that you harbor so much discontent against , think about how the changes you propose impact both aspects of the game , and then come here and post your opinion.

 

For instance , instead picking up the pitch fork against the assassin , you could propose a constructive change , like for instance , reduce the uptime of Dark Stability ( the Utility that grants Deflection its stun immunity ) , from 12 seconds , to maybe 6-8 , mathy stuff is not my forte so i leave that to the Devs.

 

Also , maybe , if you view the self heals that the assassin gets as a problem , you could suggest that the DOTS should heal maybe 10-15% of their damage done , instead of 25%.

 

Again i must insist that i would rather have the other classes be buffed up to par , rather than seeing on spec brought down to the ground , since , like MotorCityMan said already , BW kind of tends to over react to nerf cries and over do it and then the spec tends to stay in the gutter and recuperate in the next expansion , if at all.

 

why don't you just say, "I main an assassin, and I don't want nerfed cause it's fun to faceroll people."

Just be honest

[FerreusSteelTip]

If i remember correctly , some of the last patches that came before 3.0 have brought buffs to concealment ( some bizarre changes as well , like the replacement of the knockdown with a root )

 

Madness Assassins received some attention before the xpac as well , the spec was kind of garbage in pvp for almost a year and was still lacking some stuff before 3.0 , but it was going in the right direction.

 

Juggernauts in general received a buff to their suvivability , with the change to their Enraged Defense.

 

Not to mention the game wide buffs that a lot of classes got with 3.0 , like ranged classes mobility and so on.

 

These are just a couple of the change of the top of my head , that made me say that the TREND is to buff , but if you have a counter argument , please tell me , i am sure there are changes i overlooked , i can't remember all the patch notes by heart , but if you say that i am wrong , please correct me.

 

what the **** use is mobility when you can't cc an assassin that's on you???

 

and when you talk of force an tech immunity like it's meant to JUST be dmg. The guardian's force stasis is a force dmg dealing ability, THUS it is resisted.

Other stuns like electrodart and such. The same.

They are not white dmg stuns thus you have MORE stun immunity. And slows and roots can be classified as that as well.

What good is it if I can cast blazing bolts on the move as a merc, with the slow version of hydrolic overrides, if an assassin can stay on me the whole time without ANY issues of keeping up whatsoever?

 

the whole stream where they talked about merc having more mobility and not needing new dcds was a JOKE lol.

A bad one at that.

Assassins are overpowered. END. OF. STORY