TUXs Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 If you want to treat the Forums as the be-all, end-all of BW's communications, then that's your right, but doing so has no basis in how BW has ever treated them. Any decision BW makes in this game is going to have detractors, if they felt the need to respond every time they saw that "Hey, there are some people on the forums who are upset about this!" then they would still be going 'round and 'round with posters over Ranked PVP being 4v4, or the Discipline System replacing Skill Trees, or heck even the F2P option/CM being added. Sometimes their policy is: "We are making a change. We'll announce it. We'll let people express their opinions of it on the forums. But unless we decide to make further changes or we have new information, we won't get involved anymore in that discussion ourselves." I absolutely treat these forums as the source of official information - I never trust fan sites or hearsay as "confirmed" information. They have an entire community team that consisted of 4 people (3 now) that can confirm/deny player gossip and rumors. And I don't expect them to respond to every insignificant issue, but this isn't an insignificant issue imo...this directly reflects unannounced changes made to an item that could only be acquired with real money...and to boot, the change was made AFTER confirmation that it was working as intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 And your stance on this topic mirrors mine. They should have just changed the JAWA JUNK drop rates as they said they were going to...words mean things and the words Eric used were very specific to an item that was dropping from the slots. I'm past caring if they change it, but their complete silence on this topic is astounding, even for Bioware. My big beef is more with the patch notes that with Eric Musco's post, since the patch notes are the official word. So either we have the case that they knew about all the changes and chose not to say so in the patch notes, or the patch note writer did not know about all the changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimsyn Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 There's more than just the vocal majority who are angry about BW's slight of hand. There's also folks like me, who spent money based on the initial post, got a slot machine, and uninstalled the game as a result of the bait and switch. It's also maddening, that in the midst of all these things, the mat requirements for dark projects is over-looked, again and again. It was incorrect, fixed, and then reverted somehow, and subsequently ignored during the following hot-fixes. What a d-bag move. I was just a solo, casual player, who was looking forward to getting some decos for my SH without paying millions for mats. Anyway, I never post here, but I thought I'd jump in and say, the loud majority are not the only group of people unhappy, and a majority of what they say speaks for many of us who rarely post, or have quit. My sub time hasn't run out yet, so as I check back to see what changes, if any, are made, I thought I'd use my remaining time to offer up my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Anyway, I never post here, but I thought I'd jump in and say, the loud majority are not the only group of people unhappy, and a majority of what they say speaks for many of us who rarely post, or have quit. My sub time hasn't run out yet, so as I check back to see what changes, if any, are made, I thought I'd use my remaining time to offer up my 2 cents. I'm glad you took the time to post...thank you! Your opinion is just as valuable as any other customers is, I hope you speak up more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krisknife Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) big goof either way, that at the very least we deserved a full and accurate apology for. According to BW the only official sources of info are these forums , their emails and their twitter feed. Doesn't say anything about their cantina tours or 3rd party venues Edited February 2, 2015 by krisknife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) the change was made AFTER confirmation that it was working as intended. There was fault in BW's communication - that fault was a single word: they should have added the word "including" into both Eric's second post and the Patch Notes' references to the changes being made. But if we're laying blame at their feet, then blame them for what they actually said - because "working as intended" was never in any post. They said it was not a bug, and guess what - it wasn't. They said it was not an exploit to use it, and guess what - it wasn't. "Working as intended", in some circumstances, is a perfectly fine paraphrase for "not a bug, and not an exploit" but when critics of the nerf keep using that paraphrase in this discussion they do so in a context that makes it sound like BW had said "everything is perfectly fine and nothing will be changing" - and that is just not true in this case, the very same post that said it wasn't a bug or exploit also said they would be looking at drop rates. Edited February 2, 2015 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) big goof either way, that at the very least we deserved a full and accurate apology for. According to BW the only official sources of info are these forums , their emails and their twitter feed. Doesn't say anything about their cantina tours or 3rd party venues And if we think about it, info given out during a cantina tour could not be given the official seal of approval because there is always the possibility some employee might say something they are not supposed to say. Edited February 2, 2015 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 They aren't avoiding it. They stated specifically at the last cantina tour that the changes (nerfs) to the slot machine are here to stay and won't be changing. Just because some people don't accept that as their "final answer", doesn't mean they are avoiding the issue. The answer has been given and people need to let it go, and I think most have at this point. They are avoiding the issue, they've made zero comments or statements after the patch "fix" on their website / forums in relation to this matter. Everyone can dress it up to be whatever they like, or suggest fixes, or post complaints about it as much as they like. The above part still stands about avoiding the issue. It's part of a wider failure to communicate using the correct channels available to them. Not every player watches the streams on Twitch, not every player attends Cantina events, and not every player visits these forums. So they could at least attempt to address the concerns via two other mediums available to them. They've clearly chosen not to do this, for whatever reason anyone wants to come to the conclusion of. It's how an individual customer / player decides to react to that decision that will be the important factor in this whole issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 If we give them the rope and say they confirmed it was "working as intended" (though that was never said to my recollection....they said it was not bugged and it was not an exploit, so they certainly insinuated that) then we must, in turn, give them the leeway to say that he meant all scraps in his posts, and the patch notes also mean all scraps. Because it is likely that is what they meant....unless of course they were not aware of the extent of the nuke, which is also possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JattaGin Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Since the fix, people have spent millions trying to get the mount, including me, with the low drop rates. Well, if people are stupid enough to waste millions of credits after the massive nerf hoping to get a mount with the most ridiculous droprate, it is no wonder if BW doesn't do anything. The message these people send out is clear: We sheep do whatever you want us to do. I haven't bought one coin after the nerf. I won't buy any further coin. And I won't buy the new CM pack for real life money. I have bought one hypercrate of every pack for 2 years or so. Now I stop. That is my message to BW. Keep on funding their bad decisions. I won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron_EvZ Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Talk about a whoosh! You completely missed the point... If you think that the point was to compare the holocaust to a game, then you are the one who needs to step back and take a deep breath. The point, since it seems I need to spell it out... Is that while you think this specific issue is small and not worth speaking about, the attitude behind it will sooner or later roll over onto something you DO care about, but by that point no one will be around to hear your complaints. TL;DR: if you always remain silent until the issue directly affects you, you may have no one to help you when it does. I think you have entirely missed my point. I understood the intent of your analogies. Rather, I specified that your analogies were inappropriate because they required injuries of a severity beyond what could have been inflicted upon you in this situation. Let us attempt to establish, for reference, the scale of your injury. For the purpose of these examples, I will not question the fact that you may have been financially injured. Rather, I intend to show that even if you are correct in your argument that you have been injured, your examples are absurd exaggerations of your injury at best, and dangerously callous trivializations of real problems at worst. I assume that you are a reasonable person with regards to your finances, and would not have spent money necessary for your personal welfare in pursuit of an item for a video game. That is to say that your purchases of cartel coins in pursuit of the slot machine did not place you in danger of failing to pay your rent or mortgage and utilities, in danger of missing a meal due to insufficient finances, in danger of being able to pay for your education, or other severe financial hardship. Assuming that you lost value on an investment, this injury is of a trivial scale. A trivial injury warrants a trivial response, and may be such that it is not unreasonable to question if any response is in fact worth the effort. You are ultimately unharmed in any lasting capacity. No one is dead, and in a decade, no one will care. Your examples imply that your injuries are beyond trivial. In your first post, you indicated that it was "tragic that anyone would defend [bioware's Slot Machine Nerf], some people are so used to being abused they actually ask for more of it and defend the one who is doing the abuse." In support of this statement, you then linked an article on "Battered Person Syndrome," which us a condition, per your source, "of a person who has suffered (usually persistant) emotional, physical, or sexual abuse from another person" that is the basis for the "battered spouse defense that has been used in cases of [abused] spouses who have killed their abusers." You are directly implying that some of the people who are disagreeing with you are behaving in a manner consistent with this disorder. I fail to see how trivial financial injuries, even if they have been repeated, are comparable with the scale of abuse that cause the level of trauma specified by your source. I do not accept your premise that injuries of this scale can cause such trauma to the extent that this disorder would be developed. I do not find your attempt to discredit these persons by means of this comparison to be reasonable, and in fact find it distasteful, as it trivializes severe suffering experienced by others. Your second example is a classic violation of Godwin's Law. You have clearly shown (above) that you can express your position, the merit of which is not relevant to my assertion, without resorting to a comparison to the Holocaust. Your comparison to the Holocaust is unworthy because there are many who may reasonably conclude that a trivial injury is not worthy of comment while the systematic deprivation of life, liberty, and property to an entire population absolutely conveys a moral imperative to act even beyond the obvious implications of enlightened self interest that your source claims. Again, I do not find your attempts to discredit those who do not share your sense of injury to be reasonable, and again I find it to be a distasteful trivialization of one the worst evils in the history of humanity. TL;DR - Your attempts to compare trivial injuries without lasting effects to instances of severe life-altering traumas are without merit, and damage the credibility of your case - the merit of which I make no claim to either way - by their absurdity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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