Changes Coming in Tomorrow's (1/21) Maintenance

[OddballEasyEight]

I would rather say it was the fact that players were creating jawa scraps at a speed which yields them 100s or even 1000s of grade 11 mats in hours. but yeah, maybe you are right...

 

I have (well, had. Removed them now) 3 machines set up so I could reach them all.

 

Clicking all three machines in order so that there is no pause for the GCD, I ran through 30 stacks of coins this morning.

That's 2970 coins.

From that I got 3 full stacks of purple jawa junk and one more with ~40 in it.

And I started spinning at 6:30 AM after walking my dog.

I was finished at 8:50 AM.

That's with a few extremely short pauses for accepting crew missions (Yeah, I was still running those... shocker).

 

Now, saying that someone will get 1000's of grade 11 mats "in hours" is very overblown.

100's? Sure... but not 1000's.

 

It took me almost 2½ hours to get 300+ grade 11 mats.

Say I sat there for 8 hours (which would be insane, but sure). That would have given me around 1200 grade 11 mats.

 

But saying that you'd get 1000's "in hours" is not right.

 

(NOTE: I'm not debating that the drop rates were wrong. They were. But let's not take things to overblown proportions, that's what got us here in the first place)

[Darth__Reaver]

Hey folks,

 

First, as Tait alluded to we will be having a maintenance tomorrow, on Wednesday the 21st. We didn't have our regular Tuesday maintenance due to the federal holiday here in the states. I wanted to let you know a few of the things coming in tomorrow’s patch:

• Item rarity borders will now show properly
  
• No more getting stuck in Blood Hunt if someone dies to Jos or Valk Beroya
  
• The Underlurker will no longer rush extremely quickly back to his target after leaping
  
• There have been adjustments made to the Contraband Slot Machine (more on this in a second)
  
• There is also one other fix, check the final patch notes for more info
  

Let’s talk about the changes coming to the Contraband Slot Machine. When we were going into 3.0.2, we wanted to make Grade 11 materials more accessible to more players than they were at the time. As you know, we simultaneously put in the Contraband Slot Machine, which afforded you a fairly good chance to get Jawa Junk and other Jawa vendor scrap parts. This had two effects:

• It had the risk of taking the Grade 11 material costs in the economy, in the long term, to a price below where we would like
  
• It created a situation where it could be more profitable to completely ignore crew skills by use of the Slot Machine
  

With those in mind, we decided to make the following changes, which will be live tomorrow:

• The drop rate on all Jawa scraps, has been greatly reduced
  
• The drop rate on Contraband Reputation items, has been increased
  
• To insure that the Slot Machine is still an awesome item to strive for, we have added a faction specific walker mount as a very rare drop
  
• Lastly, we have increased the cost of each Slot Machine coin from 500 to 750 credits. It was always our intent that the coin cost would increase over time as we add more Slot Machines that accept the coin
  

Thanks everyone!

 

-eric

 

Just wanted to ask if your gonna fix the blood hunt part where vizla notices that (for bounty hunters that became a mando) responds correctly when you tell her that your duel should be to the death.

[OddballEasyEight]

It could have been actual metrics, sure.

 

Remember...I understand the nerf to scraps. Though I think they went a bit overboard, I can swallow that.

 

I take issue with reducing certs and increasing loss chance. Both of those changes were absolutely foolish and unnecessary IMO.

 

I can see the metrics being the main cause.

 

However, I think they've used some flawed logic.

They've probably looked at how much people rolled on the machine and then averaged out how much mats they wanted to get in the game and then simply put the percentage based on how much people rolled.

Completely ignoring the fact that if you put the chances that low, people simply won't roll at all.

 

So they saw that people were making maby hundreds of thousands of rolls on the machines every hour combined.

They calculated their percentages from that and then just assumed that people would still roll thousands of times per hour with the new dropchances.

 

It's a pretty dumb way of thinking, but I can definately see a statistical analyst thinking that way (in fact, I've seen examples of that in the past IRL).

[Neglience]

I have (well, had. Removed them now) 3 machines set up so I could reach them all.

 

Clicking all three machines in order so that there is no pause for the GCD, I ran through 30 stacks of coins this morning.

That's 2970 coins.

From that I got 3 full stacks of purple jawa junk and one more with ~40 in it.

And I started spinning at 6:30 AM after walking my dog.

I was finished at 8:50 AM.

That's with a few extremely short pauses for accepting crew missions (Yeah, I was still running those... shocker).

 

Now, saying that someone will get 1000's of grade 11 mats "in hours" is very overblown.

100's? Sure... but not 1000's.

 

It took me almost 2½ hours to get 300+ grade 11 mats.

Say I sat there for 8 hours (which would be insane, but sure). That would have given me around 1200 grade 11 mats.

 

But saying that you'd get 1000's "in hours" is not right.

 

(NOTE: I'm not debating that the drop rates were wrong. They were. But let's not take things to overblown proportions, that's what got us here in the first place)

 

Well, if youre really lucky you can get 100 with crew missions per day (if you have a lot of chars and are doing nothing else).

 

You did get over 300 in 2 1/2 hours. So in 8 hours you had 1000.

 

How is that, in any way, acceptable? To get 1000 with crew missions takes weeks. And to get all the chars to do that takes months!

Edited January 21, 2015 by Neglience

[Mariojediwookie]

The only real appeal the machine has, past the need to grind rep is the certs and the chance at the rare mount. The problem is that they are relying on the rare mount as the ONLY appeal device since even the cert was nerfed into non-existence.

 

That was beyond foolish IMO. There was absolutely NO reason to nerf the certs...in fact they should have double cert drop rate IMO....and then rolled the remaining percentage into the TOKEN drop, not loss rate.

 

I think it was a combination of things, but the certs being reduced makes sense to them. They still WANT you to buy packs. If everyone can get certs and rep with ease at low cost, I'll bet that scared the bean counters.

 

The drop rate being reduced to .5% on an jawa drops may be a little overboard. I played over 3k coins yesterday and had over 6 stacks of green/blue junk and 3-4 stacks of purple. It needed a nerf but now they are kind of contradicting themselves when they said this was intended to an opportunity for more mats to be injected since the crew missions were doing such a horrible job (which is why prices were so high).

 

If anything they were probably looking at the drop rate of running crew missions and how long it takes to critical. Then knocked the slot machine rate down below that. Probably goes to show you how crappy running missions are lol. What they should do is just install a slot timer so someone can't run three at once, make the cool down 20-30 seconds, drop rate should be a hard 2-3%. And for gods sake drop the cost of rolling the slots now, raising the cost while removing basically any incentive to roll means no one will ever use it. Let them invest in the time of pulling a slot and get maybe 1-2 purple mats over an hour. That is what should have happened. You can control the use in other ways while still making it worthwhile to use it.

[OddballEasyEight]

I'm imagining a very pissed off dev who came to the forums and saw all the complaining, and exclaimed to himself, "I tried to throw you guys a bone and all you do is complain. So fine, I'll give you something to complain about. You want nerfs, here's your nerfs."

 

I think that might be right actually.

[undiess]

I think it was a combination of things, but the certs being reduced makes sense to them. They still WANT you to buy packs. If everyone can get certs and rep with ease at low cost, I'll bet that scared the bean counters.

 

The bean counters should be very scared now, as it is more evident that they either 1.) don't know what they're doing, or, 2.) know what they're doing and are royally screwing over customers.

 

Eventually people will learn to stop buying cartel coins. LEARN PEOPLE, do not waste your money!

[Pagy]

have to laugh at bioware incompetence.

 

im neutral on the slot machines...didnt care if they left it or nerfed it.

 

but to look at the amount of changes they made to the drops...it's beyond drastic. how do they make these decisions? first for the original drops rates, now the new ones...i swear these baffoons throw darts on the wall when they make decisions.

[OddballEasyEight]

Well, if youre really lucky you can get 100 with crew missions per day (if you have a lot of chars and are doing nothing else).

 

You did get over 300 in 2 1/2 hours. So in 8 hours you had 1000.

 

How is that, in any way, acceptable? To get 1000 with crew missions takes weeks. And to get all the chars to do that takes months!

 

You completely missed my point, didn't you.

 

I didn't say it was an acceptable drop rate.

 

I just said that it wasn't "1000's in hours" like you claimed.

[henriquecorseuil]

Everyone knew that the Contraband Slot Machine would be nerfed quickly, especially with so much whining in the forum and in the game. The drop reduction rate was so much drastically. Spent three stacks of chips and get NO SINGLE ONE Jawa Junk even a Cartel Market Certification.

Indeed, it seems to me it's just gather a crowd, cry here and there and they go change something drastically. The CSM has no use for now but only to achieve the Top Reputation on Contraband. No one's going to waste a lot of time in the hope of getting Jawa Junk or any other material. I agree the change was necessary, but the way you made it, just make it pathetic and useless now.

[Transcendent]

Also - to my fellows in the community. I'm fairly certain had the slot machine released in its current form, there would be significantly less gnashing of teeth presently and overall it would have been considered a decent/fun diversion with the mount odds equaling the Kingpin Rancor mount odds.

 

The odds for the mount are nowhere near the odds for the Kinpin Rancor in the Nar Shadda Nightlife / Festival of Splendor Event. Not even close in fact.

 

Mount is 0.001% chance from the Contraband Slot machine compared to 0.07% (0.09% chance with the "feeling lucky" buff) for the Kingpin Rancor.

 

So if it had released in it's now nerfed form, how many players do you think would have bought Cartel Packs for the item? As many as have done in the past week? It wouldn't have been anywhere close to it.

 

Yes this does feel like a bait and switch tactic. BioWare release a pack, the hype from the Contraband Slot machine drives sales, they then subsequently nerf it into oblivion.

 

Absolutely understand that ensuring the economy didn't nosedive longer term, I have no issues with. What I do take issue with is the extremes they've taken this nerf to.

 

Oh and whoop, they've added a mount to the loot table that you have a 1 in 100000 chance to win.

[LordArtemis]

They should just simply stop hitting themselves in the head with bricks. Then they wouldn't make these kind of silly mistakes.

[BrittneyNB]

I was expecting a mid level nerf on mats, maybe taking the same 30% and rebalancing it. 15% green, 10% blue, and 5% purple. This seems very reasonable, the changes that were made do not. They also never mentioned nerfing the cert drop chance, they just snuck that in. I feel like customers were taken advantage of, spending a lot of real money and credits on an item that was confirmed working as intended while "looking into" Jawa Junk drop chance...understatement much? I can't help but feel kinda icky about how this is being handled, just one more thing added to the list.

 

Before any one claims I am just mad I lost my cash cow, I have only used the machine to max my rep. I didn't get a full stack of Jawa Junk and got 10 certs. I used a friends machine so I am not out anything.

[OddballEasyEight]

Also - to my fellows in the community. I'm fairly certain had the slot machine released in its current form, there would be significantly less gnashing of teeth presently and overall it would have been considered a decent/fun diversion with the mount odds equaling the Kingpin Rancor mount odds.

 

We were spoiled by a broken release, but no reason to go apoplectic now that it is changed. Make a cogent, thoughtful and polite post about what your thoughts are on the matter and it is more likely to be considered.

 

Actually, I disagree.

 

If it had been released in its current form, then some would buy it to max out the reputation, but that would be the extent of its use.

 

You have to keep in mind that the combined total drop rate of all the jawa scraps, the cartel certificates and the mounts is 0.5%.

That's not even close to being fun or worth the time invested.

Especially considering that the mounts are just reskinned versions of the regular ones.

 

But yes, there would have been far less teeth-gnashing, that's for sure.

But that's becuse people would have known it was pretty useless from the start.

Edited January 21, 2015 by OddballEasyEight

[Mardya]

Actually, I disagree.

 

If it had been released in its current form, then some would buy it to max out the reputation, but that would be the extent of its use.

 

You have to keep in mind that the combined total drop rate of all the jawa scraps, the cartel certificates and the mounts is 0.5%.

That's not even close to being fun or worth the time invested.

Especially considering that the mounts are just reskinned versions of the regular ones.

 

But yes, there would have been far less teeth-gnashing, that's for sure.

But that's becuse people would have known it was pretty useless from the start.

 

To spice that up with the example of my rolls. I am max rep so I resell the reputation items to the vendor and exchange them for coins, the total of which is also used in this result.

 

4 stacks of coins : 396 x 750 = 297000 credits.

 

result after reselling reputation items = 4 scavenged scrap.

 

When I am done crafting I will be the 'happy' owner of the most expensive med pack ever crafted in the history of SWTOR

[Pagy]

i do feel bad for the people that took bw's word for it; that they were working as intended then spent millions on the machines

[Defecter]

To have a 99% chance of getting the mount at a 0.01% droprate, it will take 46100 coins. Or roughly 34.5 million credits. Nice

[BuriDogshin]

They should just simply stop hitting themselves in the head with bricks. Then they wouldn't make these kind of silly mistakes.

Before today I figured BioWare's sanctions for the Ravagers exploit would not harm the future of the game.

Now I think they may ban thousands of their most active players who will be grateful to be booted.

 

It's so bad, if I was running a company and this kind of stuff was happening, I'd higher a private investigator to check out whoever is making these decisions to make sure that they weren't secretly in the employ of a competitor.

[KamikazeKommando]

Talk about a case of extremes.

 

As a guild we were having a real fun time with the introduction of the slot machines. Our flagship's cantina was an epicenter of activity lately with people playing their slots, jukeboxes rolling music, dances, emotes, etc. It was fun and people were enjoying themselves. Some cash poor newer players were finding a way to start their careers, older players were finding a quality of life increase getting some stuff crafted easier while waiting on queues or what not. Decorations were being gathered, times were good!

 

This morning it's like the great depression hit. Overnight our cantina went from the hottest nightlife scene on the strip to a dilapidated joint covered in dust with nobody to be seen. After two stacks of coins, the only thing in my bags (besides useless rep tokens) was 1 blue jawa token, just the one, quite incredible. I couldn't stomach putting anything else in the slots after seeing that, so much for those fun times.

 

I think there probably could have been a middle ground somewhere between some stuff dropping too much to being completely and utterly useless. That's just me though.

 

Anyway, I know this is just another drop in the ocean with all the comments on this here, but wanted to share my perspective and how this seemed extraordinarily excessive that utterly killed something which was a fun addition to the game.

[LordArtemis]

If they had released it in its current form this would not likely be an issue because plenty of folks would have avoided spending cash or millions of credits on the things.

 

Its like buying a new car for 10s of thousands of dollars only to have it turn into the worlds most expensive ashtray.

Edited January 21, 2015 by LordArtemis

[EnkiduNineEight]

The odds for the mount are nowhere near the odds for the Kinpin Rancor in the Nar Shadda Nightlife / Festival of Splendor Event. Not even close in fact.

 

Mount is 0.001% chance from the Contraband Slot machine compared to 0.07% (0.09% chance with the "feeling lucky" buff) for the Kingpin Rancor.

 

So if it had released in it's now nerfed form, how many players do you think would have bought Cartel Packs for the item? As many as have done in the past week? It wouldn't have been anywhere close to it.

 

Yes this does feel like a bait and switch tactic. BioWare release a pack, the hype from the Contraband Slot machine drives sales, they then subsequently nerf it into oblivion.

 

Absolutely understand that ensuring the economy didn't nosedive longer term, I have no issues with. What I do take issue with is the extremes they've taken this nerf to.

 

Oh and whoop, they've added a mount to the loot table that you have a 1 in 100000 chance to win.

 

The difference is that you are reporting a number in a percentage and I was putting the number up as in a decimal.

a 1% chance is .01 a 100% chance is 1.00. so 0.09% represented as a decimal would be 0.0009, if you are only going to three places, that rounds to .001 as a decimal.

 

I am thinking that what people posted from their datamining on reddit was possibly not well communicated as they are attaching percentages to something that are not percentages in the tables they pulled from.

 

If there is a confusion with the percentages on BioWares part, it is certainly something that should be addressed.

 

But as I have said, I expect them to re-adjust the slots in the future they arelikely dealing with their own mined data and can see the sheer volume of materials that were 'mined' from the slots in the week they were active in their overly generous state.

[OddballEasyEight]

To have a 99% chance of getting the mount at a 0.01% droprate, it will take 46100 coins. Or roughly 34.5 million credits. Nice

 

Hahaha... you forgot a zero there my friend.

 

The drop rate isn't 0.01%

It's 0.001%

 

Thaaats right...

[EnkiduNineEight]

Actually, I disagree.

 

If it had been released in its current form, then some would buy it to max out the reputation, but that would be the extent of its use.

 

You have to keep in mind that the combined total drop rate of all the jawa scraps, the cartel certificates and the mounts is 0.5%.

That's not even close to being fun or worth the time invested.

Especially considering that the mounts are just reskinned versions of the regular ones.

 

But yes, there would have been far less teeth-gnashing, that's for sure.

But that's becuse people would have known it was pretty useless from the start.

 

I'm just saying, its a matter ofperception, and since people's perceptions were set artificially high, the scaling back makes it appear quite more painful than it might have been.

 

I do believe they need to increase the rate of returns. I expect them to do so in the future as they see the shakeout. I hope they increase the rate of return so that Jawa materials (for purples at least) end up costing 50-100% the cost of the same purple materials gathered via Crew Missions. This serves the stated function and desire of their market manipulation by making more materials available while keeping companion gathering as the 'optimal' way to obtain materials for the cheapest price.

 

You can still gain more/faster with the slots under that system, but it costs you half again or twice as much.

[gburnash]

They most certainly nerfed the heck out of the slots. Jawa scrap hasn't just been reduced on the slot machine. It's pretty much non-existant now. 198 coins dropped in, not one bit of jawa scrap, junk, or droid parts. Tons and tons of rep items (way to much in fact), but no more jawa materials at all. At least not for me.

 

A lot more failed spins as well. Otherwise I didn't get anything but rep items on those spins.

 

With the 198 spins my totals were:

27 medical supplies (blue rep)

9 confiscated artwork (purple rep)

32 banned holovids (green rep)

 

That's it. No certificates, jawa scrap or otherwise.

Edited January 21, 2015 by gburnash

[Wodaz]

Sounds like they tried balancing it with crew missions rates and got it seriously wrong. They should re-balance this again to at least be on par with crew missions for purples. As far as greens and blues...they definitely screwed up. I can go to Yavin and get more greens in 30 minutes then even before the slots got nerfed and blues are guaranteed multiples with every crew mission it was at little more convenient with slots because you don't have to wait on mission timer.