Changes Coming in Tomorrow's (1/21) Maintenance

[OddballEasyEight]

Bought a lot of coins before the update increasing the price....

 

Results after 100 coins :

 

22 Green Rep, 19 Blue Rep, 7 Purple Rep

No Scrap

No Certificate

No Mount

 

Glad I pulled all my cheap Grade 11 mats from the GTN before the patch

 

Yeah, I figured a nerf was coming so I went through 30 stacks this morning...

But I didn't figure it would be a complete shut-down like this.

 

I mean, lowering the chances to maby 6% for blue and 3% for purple would be a nerf.

This isn't a nerf... it's a complete shut down of the viability of the machine.

I've removed mine from the stronghold.

[Transcendent]

A little sweet to 'pacify' us - the walker. Firstly, what's' the drop rate on it? 0.02% like the Rancor for nightlife?

 

Hate to burst that bubble, that 10 million you spent getting the Rancor? It'll be more like 700 million. (Drop rate on Rancor without buff was 0.07)

 

Edit: Statistically you'll spend 75 million credits before seeing the walker drop.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Transcendent

[Eanelinea]

The only people this benefits are the price gougers on the GTN who get mats and decide they'll screw everyone else out of their money by selling their mats for so high. I'll just send my companions out or waste my money on the machines. I refuse to give players my credits.

[Eanelinea]

Result after first stack of coins:

 

25 green rep, 15 blue, 5 purple

2 green scrap items

no certs

no mount

 

And yes I also removed my crafting mats from the GTN before patch.

 

I agree the slots needed a nerf but this seems a tad excessive.

 

Edit: 2nd stack: reputation items only.

 

Yup, the new slot machines are now completely useless. Smooth move.

[undiess]

My results with one 99 stack:

x12 Green Rep

x16 Blue Rep

x4 Purple Rep

No Jawa Junk

No Certificates

No Mount

 

 

 

Bioware cannot get anything right -they go from one extreme to another. YEs, I'll freely admit before it was an extreme of too much, but those that did not like it have to admit that it's now a serious ripoff to those that had the slots. Those that had the slots already MAXED their reputation with Contraband so now we get drops of rep that we don't even need and nothing else.

 

Wheres that H1Z1 at, I need some good developers.

Edited January 21, 2015 by undiess

[DarthBryn]

My results with one 99 stack:

x12 Green Rep

x16 Blue Rep

x4 Purple Rep

No Jawa Junk

No Certificates

No Mount

 

 

 

Bioware cannot get anything right -they go from one extreme to another. YEs, I'll freely admit before it was an extreme of too much, but those that did not like it have to admit that it's now a serious ripoff to those that had the slots. Those that had the slots already MAXED their reputation with Contraband so now we get drops of rep that we don't even need and nothing else.

 

Wheres that H1Z1 at, I need some good developers.

 

+1 to this, whilst they did yeild too much, they now don't yield anything

[Mardya]

My results with one 99 stack:

x12 Green Rep

x16 Blue Rep

x4 Purple Rep

No Jawa Junk

No Certificates

No Mount

 

 

 

Bioware cannot get anything right -they go from one extreme to another. YEs, I'll freely admit before it was an extreme of too much, but those that did not like it have to admit that it's now a serious ripoff to those that had the slots. Those that had the slots already MAXED their reputation with Contraband so now we get drops of rep that we don't even need and nothing else.

 

Wheres that H1Z1 at, I need some good developers.

 

Yup.

 

I'm going to be happy with what I have gotten from it so far: enough rep, certs and credits to buy the command throne I've been wanting for ages. Still, I feel for those players that buy these packs now. If it were me, I would feel majorly sour to get this item after it's gone from beyond awsome to nothing but a mildly pretty decoration.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Mardya
spelling

[undiess]

My results with a second 99 stack:

x20 Green Rep

x18 Blue Rep

x5 Purple Rep

No Jawa Junk

No Certificates

No Mount

 

My overall results with two 99 stacks:

x32 Green Rep

x34 Blue Rep

x9 Purple Rep

No Jawa Junk

No Certificates

No Mount

 

They did get one thing right, they managed to sync the chance to get something good with the chance you'll actually have fun in this game. Great Job Bioware!

Edited January 21, 2015 by undiess

[DarthDymond]

I'm sympathetic to those who claim a bait-and-switch happened given the extreme changes in Jawa Junk drops, but I feel like the end result is actually a good vision of what all the Reputation Slot Machines should be: primarily a way to get the associated Reputation, with an unlikely 'jackpot' chance of getting a Cartel Cert and an extremely rare chance of getting the special mount.

 

This is a good version of the item, but BW definitely made a mistake in ever releasing a version that had people treating it as a crafting-focused machine or an easy way of getting Cartel Certs. Now people, justifiably, feel like they're getting jerked around.

[EnkiduNineEight]

Eric,

 

I posted in the other thread. I was in the camp favouring an adjustment to the rate of return for the slot machine. I appreciate that you listened to this request but do believe the adjustment is overly harsh.

 

My expectation is that the harshness of the adjustment is temporary and to help the market flush out the week of the machine being overly generous.

 

I would suggest the mount drop be .005 which should be about 5 times the chance of the Kingpin Rancor but still quite rare.

 

Materials drops should be calculated to have an expected rate of return and cost per material that exceeds those gathered from crew skills, but not by too much. I am not sure what is fair for too much but I would even believe 50% higher cost per material is fair considering the time to achieve is significantly higher.

 

This will still benefit the market and rarity, while not obviating the companion gathering missions and making these still the 'best' way for crafters to earn their materials while providing an alternate method to gather them for the 'want it now' current mind set of many gamers.

 

Getting it now has a price premium, but not an overly onerous one.

 

That said, again, thank you for realizing the slot machines were far too generous and working at scaling them back. Please make sure this is a constant adjustment so that the new slot machines in the future will have the kinks worked out of them before their release.

 

Also - to my fellows in the community. I'm fairly certain had the slot machine released in its current form, there would be significantly less gnashing of teeth presently and overall it would have been considered a decent/fun diversion with the mount odds equaling the Kingpin Rancor mount odds.

 

We were spoiled by a broken release, but no reason to go apoplectic now that it is changed. Make a cogent, thoughtful and polite post about what your thoughts are on the matter and it is more likely to be considered.

 

Again: My suggestions

Increase the new mount drop to . 5 times the frequency of the Kingpin Rancor mount. This is still sufficiently rare/premium drop.

Increase the crafting Jawa Scrap drops so that the cost per material (Most specifically Jawa Junk) is about 50% more than the cost per Purple Mat achieved through crew skill gathering missions. This 'price premium' attached tomaterials gathered this way is due to the 'immediacy' of the slots. I think even 100% the cost of crew skill gathered missions could be considered fair because of the speed/reliability of the drops. This allows players to get materials for their own use at a reasonable rate, but still makes crafting the 'best' way to obtain them.

 

Thanks,

[Mardya]

I'm sympathetic to those who claim a bait-and-switch happened given the extreme changes in Jawa Junk drops, but I feel like the end result is actually a good vision of what all the Reputation Slot Machines should be: primarily a way to get the associated Reputation, with an unlikely 'jackpot' chance of getting a Cartel Cert and an extremely rare chance of getting the special mount.

 

This is a good version of the item, but BW definitely made a mistake in ever releasing a version that had people treating it as a crafting-focused machine or an easy way of getting Cartel Certs. Now people, justifiably, feel like they're getting jerked around.

 

It is a good way to gain reputation. Unfortunately, with reputation a cap is reached, after which the item is rendered useless. If that had been the goal, it is working as intended.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Mardya
grammar

[DarthDymond]

It is a good way to gain reputation. Unfortunately, with reputation a cap is reached, after which the item is rendered useless. If that had been the goal, it is working as intended.

I think there will still be plenty of people chasing after the super-duper-rare mount or looking to turn credits into Cartel Certs at times when the Packs are selling for higher than normal on the GTN. But even if it does have a limited shelf-life, that's still more 'use' than we get out of any other decorations.

 

With this much of a blowup over this stupid slot machine, I wonder if someone at EA is going to come to the conclusion that all players care about is the most basic, stripped down Skinner Box imaginable - which isn't going to do any favors to the development budget for Ops and WZs.

[kharathos]

Eric,

 

I posted in the other thread. I was in the camp favouring an adjustment to the rate of return for the slot machine. I appreciate that you listened to this request but do believe the adjustment is overly harsh.

 

My expectation is that the harshness of the adjustment is temporary and to help the market flush out the week of the machine being overly generous.

 

I would suggest the mount drop be .005 which should be about 5 times the chance of the Kingpin Rancor but still quite rare.

 

Materials drops should be calculated to have an expected rate of return and cost per material that exceeds those gathered from crew skills, but not by too much. I am not sure what is fair for too much but I would even believe 50% higher cost per material is fair considering the time to achieve is significantly higher.

 

This will still benefit the market and rarity, while not obviating the companion gathering missions and making these still the 'best' way for crafters to earn their materials while providing an alternate method to gather them for the 'want it now' current mind set of many gamers.

 

Getting it now has a price premium, but not an overly onerous one.

 

That said, again, thank you for realizing the slot machines were far too generous and working at scaling them back. Please make sure this is a constant adjustment so that the new slot machines in the future will have the kinks worked out of them before their release.

 

Also - to my fellows in the community. I'm fairly certain had the slot machine released in its current form, there would be significantly less gnashing of teeth presently and overall it would have been considered a decent/fun diversion with the mount odds equaling the Kingpin Rancor mount odds.

 

We were spoiled by a broken release, but no reason to go apoplectic now that it is changed. Make a cogent, thoughtful and polite post about what your thoughts are on the matter and it is more likely to be considered.

 

Again: My suggestions

Increase the new mount drop to . 5 times the frequency of the Kingpin Rancor mount. This is still sufficiently rare/premium drop.

Increase the crafting Jawa Scrap drops so that the cost per material (Most specifically Jawa Junk) is about 50% more than the cost per Purple Mat achieved through crew skill gathering missions. This 'price premium' attached tomaterials gathered this way is due to the 'immediacy' of the slots. I think even 100% the cost of crew skill gathered missions could be considered fair because of the speed/reliability of the drops. This allows players to get materials for their own use at a reasonable rate, but still makes crafting the 'best' way to obtain them.

 

Thanks,

 

WALL OF WORDS!!!!!

 

But seriously, you forget one single point in all that you wrote and it is this:

 

 

When we were going into 3.0.2, we wanted to make Grade 11 materials more accessible to more players than they were at the time. As you know, we simultaneously put in the Contraband Slot Machine, which afforded you a fairly good chance to get Jawa Junk and other Jawa vendor scrap parts. This had two effects:

[*]It had the risk of taking the Grade 11 material costs in the economy, in the long term, to a price below where we would like

-eric

 

Bioware went from wanting to make Grade 11 mats easier for everyone and trying to force the bull$hit prices charged on the gtn for said mats down to what they thought was more reasonable to a complete backflip with a face first landing and making the machines useless for anyone with max reputation. So yeah while your opinion and view has some merit (Some points, not all), don't forget why the slots were first introduced before Bioware buckled to the very same crafters and gtn barons that charge obscenely for mats which locks out most players not sitting on piles of credits.

[OddballEasyEight]

I'm sympathetic to those who claim a bait-and-switch happened given the extreme changes in Jawa Junk drops, but I feel like the end result is actually a good vision of what all the Reputation Slot Machines should be: primarily a way to get the associated Reputation, with an unlikely 'jackpot' chance of getting a Cartel Cert and an extremely rare chance of getting the special mount.

 

This is a good version of the item, but BW definitely made a mistake in ever releasing a version that had people treating it as a crafting-focused machine or an easy way of getting Cartel Certs. Now people, justifiably, feel like they're getting jerked around.

 

They stated that it was supposed to be an alternative way of gaining grade 11 mats.

 

It is no longer that.

[Gutzduken]

Silly people! Haven't you learned already that IF you tell BW that something is working better than expected and your mad at them they will NERF it till it can't be nerfed anymore! IDK Why anyone would complain that it was giving too much! But yall did and now I can just laugh at everyone complaining it's Nerfed too much!!!

 

Aside from that great post dude

[LordArtemis]

I just dont think it was nerfed because of feedback....perhaps the problem was brought to their attention due to feedback.

 

I think it was nerfed because of their internal info....which probably consisted of someone sitting at a table saying "yea, that is bad. Reduce the drop rates to something below 1 percent on all of it."

 

"Oh, you might want to throw in some candy, the device kind of loses it's appeal if you reduce the drop rates that much."

 

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the extent of it.

[MillionsKNives]

Silly people! Haven't you learned already that IF you tell BW that something is working better than expected and your mad at them they will NERF it till it can't be nerfed anymore! IDK Why anyone would complain that it was giving too much! But yall did and now I can just laugh at everyone complaining it's Nerfed too much!!!

 

Aside from that great post dude

 

I'm imagining a very pissed off dev who came to the forums and saw all the complaining, and exclaimed to himself, "I tried to throw you guys a bone and all you do is complain. So fine, I'll give you something to complain about. You want nerfs, here's your nerfs."

[Neglience]

I just dont think it was nerfed because of feedback....perhaps the problem was brought to their attention due to feedback.

 

I think it was nerfed because of their internal info....which probably consisted of someone sitting at a table saying "yea, that is bad. Reduce the drop rates to something below 1 percent on all of it."

 

"Oh, you might want to throw in some candy, the device kind of loses it's appeal if you reduce the drop rates that much."

 

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the extent of it.

 

I would rather say it was the fact that players were creating jawa scraps at a speed which yields them 100s or even 1000s of grade 11 mats in hours. but yeah, maybe you are right...

Edited January 21, 2015 by Neglience

[DarthDymond]

They stated that it was supposed to be an alternative way of gaining grade 11 mats.

 

It is no longer that.

They didn't say they wanted the slot machine to be a significant way of increasing Grade 11 Mats, they said they made a change in 3.0.2 to make them more accessible (by adding them to the Jawas) and at the same time they added the slot machines. The combination had an unintended effect of driving down prices too far:

Let’s talk about the changes coming to the Contraband Slot Machine. When we were going into 3.0.2, we wanted to make Grade 11 materials more accessible to more players than they were at the time. As you know, we simultaneously put in the Contraband Slot Machine, which afforded you a fairly good chance to get Jawa Junk and other Jawa vendor scrap parts.

[undiess]

I'm imagining a very pissed off dev who came to the forums and saw all the complaining, and exclaimed to himself, "I tried to throw you guys a bone and all you do is complain. So fine, I'll give you something to complain about. You want nerfs, here's your nerfs."

 

Yeah right, they never patch stuff this quick. They had the nerf ready the moment they released the slot machines.

[grombrinda]

Can we PLEASE get an official response as to why the high nerf to the item?

 

A mid level nerf I could see as they were working to good, but now......what's the point in even having them?

[grombrinda]

Yeah right, they never patch stuff this quick. They had the nerf ready the moment they released the slot machines.

 

Wish they had that handy when the Rav op was broken...

Edited January 21, 2015 by grombrinda

[MillionsKNives]

I just dont think it was nerfed because of feedback....perhaps the problem was brought to their attention due to feedback.

 

I think it was nerfed because of their internal info....which probably consisted of someone sitting at a table saying "yea, that is bad. Reduce the drop rates to something below 1 percent on all of it."

 

"Oh, you might want to throw in some candy, the device kind of loses it's appeal if you reduce the drop rates that much."

 

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the extent of it.

 

I can certainly understand the why for the change, I just don't understand the how of the change. Yes, some of the drop rates were way too high as it stood. But all of the non-rep items have a combined chance of about 0.5%! That and a loss rate of almost half, who's really going to continue using the machine now? It really does scream kneejerk instead of a thought out reaction.

 

In my opinion, the blue mats should have had their chance halved, and purples halved again. Maybe halve the certificate rate too. And give the walker about the same chance as the Rancor. Then roll the rest into the return chance or the rep tokens.

[LordArtemis]

I would rather say it was the fact that players were creating jawa scraps at a speed which yields them 100s or even 1000s of grade 11 mats in hours. but yeah, maybe you are right...

 

It could have been actual metrics, sure.

 

Remember...I understand the nerf to scraps. Though I think they went a bit overboard, I can swallow that.

 

I take issue with reducing certs and increasing loss chance. Both of those changes were absolutely foolish and unnecessary IMO.

[LordArtemis]

I can certainly understand the why for the change, I just don't understand the how of the change. Yes, some of the drop rates were way too high as it stood. But all of the non-rep items have a combined chance of about 0.5%! That and a loss rate of almost half, who's really going to continue using the machine now? It really does scream kneejerk instead of a thought out reaction.

 

In my opinion, the blue mats should have had their chance halved, and purples halved again. Maybe halve the certificate rate too. And give the walker about the same chance as the Rancor. Then roll the rest into the return chance or the rep tokens.

 

The only real appeal the machine has, past the need to grind rep is the certs and the chance at the rare mount. The problem is that they are relying on the rare mount as the ONLY appeal device since even the cert was nerfed into non-existence.

 

That was beyond foolish IMO. There was absolutely NO reason to nerf the certs...in fact they should have double cert drop rate IMO....and then rolled the remaining percentage into the TOKEN drop, not loss rate.