Sentinel and Marauder Changes

[Zoom_VI]

I'm not saying serenity shadows are OP, but they are top tier now, and I am sure as hell not calling for them to be nerfed. I am pointing out they work EXTREMELY WELL right now, and part of that reason is a set of design synergies completely lacking in sents/mara's. They are working so well that pvp teams of NOTHING BUT THEM, are very viable. Also a HUGE part of their success are their cc immunity tools, as I pointed out. To argue with those basic facts is pure stupidity.

 

I AM calling for sents to receive tools that move them UP to the top tier, and that is what some noobs here cant handle.

 

Except Assassins are exactly what a class shouldn't be in PvP. Assassins are how not to do a class. Assassins are so strong because they have immunities and counters for everything that might be able to shut them down.

 

That bad for PvP because it takes out counterplay and replaces it with mere DPS race. Which ruins PvP, and dumbs it down.

 

Assassin immunities need to be burned into the ground, and no class should ever see that level of immunity again.

[calamatiesend]

I'm not saying serenity shadows are OP, but they are top tier now, and I am sure as hell not calling for them to be nerfed. I am pointing out they work EXTREMELY WELL right now, and part of that reason is a set of design synergies completely lacking in sents/mara's. They are working so well that pvp teams of NOTHING BUT THEM, are very viable. Also a HUGE part of their success are their cc immunity tools, as I pointed out. To argue with those basic facts is pure stupidity.

 

I AM calling for sents to receive tools that move them UP to the top tier, and that is what some noobs here cant handle.

 

They are OP, because of there toolset and synergies as you have said/talked about. If you remove deflection hard cc immunity they will still be OP. That is not the defining quality that has made them that powerful. Hell I know a bunch that do not even spec into it because its honestly not needed with how powerful their skillset is already.

[Ezequielwize]

Please bring cripplings throw back!

[erdems]

Except Assassins are exactly what a class shouldn't be in PvP. Assassins are how not to do a class. Assassins are so strong because they have immunities and counters for everything that might be able to shut them down.

 

That bad for PvP because it takes out counterplay and replaces it with mere DPS race. Which ruins PvP, and dumbs it down.

 

Assassin immunities need to be burned into the ground, and no class should ever see that level of immunity again.

 

Rise of the pvp racism..

 

i know sents need some buff but that doesnt mean assassins need to be nerfed, you dont even really care about sent changes, it turns out to "ooh, i envy sins:(" "pls nerf sins bw" "please i dont wanna see them in pvp" thread. i saw racism in real world, but in a game, lol, that is really pathetic. if you are not ready for all kind of offensive stuff including these why do u play pvp, it is bad for your health to cry all the time, you know

Edited January 30, 2015 by erdems

[erdems]

Please bring cripplings throw back!

 

definitely, agreed

[Dyvim]

Except Assassins are exactly what a class shouldn't be in PvP. Assassins are how not to do a class. Assassins are so strong because they have immunities and counters for everything that might be able to shut them down.

 

That bad for PvP because it takes out counterplay and replaces it with mere DPS race. Which ruins PvP, and dumbs it down.

 

Assassin immunities need to be burned into the ground, and no class should ever see that level of immunity again.

Or we should have a game that moves away from a complete overabundance of cc.

[Dyvim]

Plenty of bad, but thats okay.

 

We have been making our main closer work since beta without unremitting..... Once again all I see is you crying because your sent is not a sin/guardian. Many of us want our class to be BALANCED not a new FOTM, or overtuned like hatred sins are right now. I see you have all 3 FOTM specs as alts, just an observation. Snipers have good defensive cds? Interesting because they are no where near as good as ours..... It shows you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to competitive balance.

 

We are trying to suggest new ways to make our class balanced and retain what makes the sent unique. Buffing pred/trans to give root immunity/mobility is a front runner and there have been others. Once again since you seem to love avoiding this, we are not saying we do not need some help staying on targets, but we do not need force leap to grant cc immunity. Also in watchmen with shorter cd and no min range you are suggesting they are cc immune 25% of the time........ yeah.......... We do not actually need any hard cc immunity to be viable and strong (maybe on UR/GbtF with utility, but that is it).

 

I said DEFENSIVE TOOLS, snipers have great defensive tools. Learn them.

 

You say we don't need leap to have immunity? WHY? NOTHING makes more sense. It is our main closer. We have to close. snipers/slingers already are immune to leaps most of the time. So its not like classes don't already have built in counters. But can you HONESTLY count all the ways you can be cc'd after a leap? So your statement about what is needed or not needed is complete BS. Like I said you could make it random, 1-3 secs, so on AVERAGE that means 1.5 sec under such a plan. But TAKE AWAY the element of CERTAINTY about when to cc us, without even thinking, from our enemies. If you think that is OP or somehow imbalancing you are as clueless as your posts suggest.

[erdems]

about this cc immunity thing (not the other stuff),

 

we cant be pushed after leap, like every player we have resolve against excesive stuns, we have utility against movement impairing effects. can u be clear about wht do u want more, exactly.

 

because from here, it seems u (maybe unconsciuosly) wanna be invincible.

Edited January 31, 2015 by erdems

[Dyvim]

about this cc immunity thing (not the other stuff),

 

we cant be pushed after leap, like every player we have resolve against excesive stuns, we have utility against movement impairing effects. can u be clear about wht do u want more exactly.

 

because from here, it seems u (maybe unconsciuosly) wanna be invincible.

 

Of course we can be pushed after leaps...and knocked back, and harpooned, and stunned, and, and, and....you are clueless

[erdems]

Of course we can be pushed after leaps...and knocked back, and harpooned, and stunned, and, and, and....you are clueless

 

yeah clueless like u think serenity supposed to be melee, anyway sorry about that, i was confused, just change it with channelled skills pls. and the rest of the question is same. i just wanna learn your point

Edited January 31, 2015 by erdems

[Dyvim]

yeah clueless like u think serenity supposed to be melee, anyway sorry about that i was confused, just change it with channelled skills pls. and the rest of the question is same. i just wanna learn your point

 

Yeah clueless. I play serenity shadow...shadows have to be melee for a good part of the fight...yes technically, they are a hybrid, like EAWare calls VGs a 4-10m range hybrid...but they are still melee and particularly 10m or less, a substantial part of the rotation...

 

But we are talking cc vulnerability and you aren't even sure when that is....

Edited January 31, 2015 by Dyvim

[erdems]

Yeah clueless. I play serenity shadow...shadows have to be melee for a good part of the fight...yes technically, they are a hybrid, like EAWare calls VGs a 4-10m range hybrid...but they are still melee a substantial part of the rotation...

 

(not 10m, they have many 30m skills even aoe like u said before, they are fully hybrid)

 

anyway will u explain your point or continiue to be that touchy? wht do u want besides those immunities which u already have?

Edited January 31, 2015 by erdems

[Dyvim]

(not 10m, they have many 30m skills even aoe like u said before, they are fully hybrid)

 

anyway will u explain your point or continiue to be that touchy? wht do u want besides those immunities which u already have?

 

Explain, please, what immunities you think sentinels have. Since your understanding is in question, lets hear just exactly what cc immunities you think sentinels have...My point is a simple one...the classes that are performing the best in pvp now are the ones that have the most tools to overcome CC. Period. Want an example? Play a watchman sentinel, then play a vigilance guardian. That should make it plain enough for you. Or play a serenity shadow. Or a tactics vanguard.

[erdems]

Explain, please, what immunities you think sentinels have. Since your understanding is in question, lets hear just exactly what cc immunities you think sentinels have...My point is a simple one...the classes that are performing the best in pvp now are the ones that have the most tools to overcome CC. Period. Want an example? Play a watchman sentinel, then play a vigilance guardian. That should make it plain enough for you. Or play a serenity shadow. Or a tactics vanguard.

 

how can i be more clear: you have push immunity while using channells, u have resolve like every other players and u have a utility for transcendence which provides complete immunity to movement impairing efffects (and as u know trancendence gives mobility too) ooh and a skill to break all cc like every other players have. (didnt i mentioned sorry u can use rebuke while stunned thats not an immunity or break but it is a good hack against stun). ii just wonder why these are not enough

 

i play usually with hatred sin as u know the counterpart of serenity shadow, but with sent may be u r right because i mostly played with focus sent (i loved the force sweep before 3.0 - that boom sound) and a bit with combat but not much and i dont wanna play other diciplines just to understand wht u mean. and i can understand that annoying taunt, slow, root, stun because i use those against all with sin not just against sents, the other classes complain about it too but it should be this way, cc is part of the game u should accept it

 

(i remember the times i wasted most of the ranked match stunnned, pushed below bridge, got root and i never complained about it because i knew i was just a noob player (may be i still am:D, but now a good noob), there are good sents which can develop tactics against cc tactics. that's it, it is just about team and tactics)

 

these are the times that pvpers dont wanna see sents in their team because they are useless and a burden to healers. but i dont believe the reson is cc vulnerability, it is we got nerfed very badly. BW had ignored our concerns for a long time, untill now. hope it will be better...

Edited January 31, 2015 by erdems

[Dyvim]

how can i be more clear: you have push immunity while using channells, u have resolve like every other players and u have a utility for transcendence which provides complete immunity to movement impairing efffects (and as u know trancendence gives mobility too) ooh and a skill to break all cc like every other players have. (didnt i mentioned sorry u can use rebuke while stunned thats not an immunity or break but it is a good hack against stun). ii just wonder why these are not enough

 

i play usually with hatred sin as u know the counterpart of serenity shadow, but with sent may be u r right because i mostly played with focus sent (i loved the force sweep before 3.0 - that boom sound) and a bit with combat but not much and i dont wanna play other diciplines just to understand wht u mean. and i can understand that annoying taunt, slow, root, stun because i use those against all with sin not just against sents, the other classes complain about it too but it should be this way, cc is part of the game u should accept it

 

(i remember the times i wasted most of the ranked match stunnned, pushed below bridge, got root and i never complained about it because i knew i was just a noob player (may be i still am:D, but now a good noob), there are good sents which can develop tactics against cc tactics. that's it, it is just about team and tactics)

 

these are the times that pvpers dont wanna see sents in their team because they are useless and a burden to healers. but i dont believe the reson is cc vulnerability, it is we got nerfed very badly. BW had ignored our concerns for a long time, untill now. hope it will be better...

 

Not to be mean, but from a real discussion point of view, you just aren't worth replying to, so I will keep this short...channels? are you kidding? *** are you talking about? You list things every other class has? Are you joking? It is clear you are clueless when it comes to sentinels and their situation. Transcendence provides no immunity. If you spend a heroic utility point, it breaks snares/roots WHEN APPLIED, once, but offers NO SUBSEQUENT IMMUNITY. So it is pretty much worthless. You can be rooted a second after you apply it. Or slowed. Or pushed, or pulled, or knocked back, or hit with any other cc, which again makes it useless. Unlike shadow force run, it COMES WITH NO IMMUNITY, even AFTER you spend that HEROIC utility point.

 

Plus if you are using transcendence, you aren't using Zen, so you are being forced to gut your dps - there is a HUGE opportunity cost to using transcendence - AND it has a resource building mechanic behind it - centering. Do you have a glimmer of understanding as to what that means? Stop wasting my time. Done.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Dyvim

[DarkNecroCrusher]

Just exactly what do you think controlling effects (cc) are? If you want to see clueless, look in the mirror. Sure sturdiness costs shadows a pt...its the best point I ever spent in my shadow, and I would kill to have the same option on my sentinel, compared to some of the crap choices we have.

 

 

 

Thank you for saving me the trouble of having to point out the incredibly obvious to him. Its hard to have any kind of a discussion with people that don't even grasp the basics.

 

When you talk about "CC", you are including stuns and mezz.

 

But stuns and mezz are not the problem, that's why I said that CC in general are not the problem, only movement-impairing effects, bumps pulls and kiting tools other classes have are the problem.

 

Don't take it so personal =)

[MystbladeWA]

Yeah clueless. I play serenity shadow

 

[erotic-tofu]

the speed boost is a waste of centering esp. against sorc/ vng

[Dyvim]

the speed boost is a waste of centering esp. against sorc/ vng

 

or against anyone else that can slow, root, pull, push, or stun you right after you trigger it...so pretty much anyone.

[Aclepias]

You know I gotta ask Eric. When you guys give jugs stun immunity on leap push to leap again and multiple ways for DPS to regen before they even use saber reflect and give them a saber throw root that you took from us,what is the thought process behind and do you test your update before you send it to the pts because I have a guardian and I got to say right now guardians/juggernaut Far exceed any small patch bioware can give to marauders.

[Dyvim]

You know I gotta ask Eric. When you guys give jugs stun immunity on leap push to leap again and multiple ways for DPS to regen before they even use saber reflect and give them a saber throw root that you took from us,what is the thought process behind and do you test your update before you send it to the pts because I have a guardian and I got to say right now guardians/juggernaut Far exceed any small patch bioware can give to marauders.

 

This is a great set of questions, really. Essentially we are both melee dps classes (talking dps guardians), share some of the same skills, share the same basic class, and share many of the same problems. Watchman and Vigilance have a lot in common - dots, dot spreading, etc. So why do they have much better tools AND cc immunity every 15 seconds, when we don't? Unremitting, possible the best tool you could have as a jedi knight, cc immunity on leap, is FREE TO THEM. Doesn't even cost vigi/veng a utility point. Its laughable, the lack of balance.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Dyvim

[Zadtro]

for instance the ranged dps classes were weak and they still are, guards/juggs were strong enough and now they are OP

 

Dude i don't know where you got that from.... juggs/guards were OP, their heal was nerfed. By that point most of the damage was done to last season of ranked. The reason they normally do so much in warzones is because they are never focussed.

 

Ranged classes are weak? So being a sorc or a PT means you are weak? Sniper damage is weak? Sniper is the counter class to melee so they are fine against any melee class but sins which are sought of in the middle because they can now hit at 30m (Yeah that makes a lot of sense)

[erdems]

Dude i don't know where you got that from.... juggs/guards were OP, their heal was nerfed. By that point most of the damage was done to last season of ranked. The reason they normally do so much in warzones is because they are never focussed.

 

Ranged classes are weak? So being a sorc or a PT means you are weak? Sniper damage is weak? Sniper is the counter class to melee so they are fine against any melee class but sins which are sought of in the middle because they can now hit at 30m (Yeah that makes a lot of sense)

 

i get your point, and still think same (but i agree about PT), if u think the start point of my idea (boards) is not right or enough (i respect that), so let's look another: more than 4000 people have voted here

 

look at poll results (it is active), i guess it is objective enough, as long as it is not my own idea...

 

none of ranged is in the top tier

 

and i never said sniper's damage is weak but i might have said sniper is weak... There is a difference.

more clearly : they are not weak according to their roles in team, but they are weak against the top tier classes which are strong enough or OP. at this point they were weak and they still are. (it was about balance not for insulting some classes.)

 

So being a sorc or a PT means you are weak?

 

about that: sages/sorcs they can be hybrid but can not be analysed as a complete ranged class.

Edited February 2, 2015 by erdems

[Exquisitr]

Precision mechanic is hinky. Give Precision some damage as well as extend it's duration by 2 seconds.

 

Master strike feels considerably underpowered, give it some more front end damage.

 

Resource bounces around like a yo-yo and can take some time to ramp up. Give some additional resource building to Force Leap. Jumping into combat at start but with no resource available is pretty boring.

 

Sentinel could use another ranged attack like Twin Saber Throw or a reduced CD on Force Leap.

 

Guided by the Force needs to be fixed. Remove the 50% loss in HP after it wears off. Do other classes have this penalty for their bubbles?

 

Could give Sentinel another remove stun CD for PvP.

 

Clashing Blasts continues to highlight when it's on cooldown. Make the highlight only show when it's OFF cooldown.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Exquisitr

[Zadtro]

i get your point, and still think same (but i agree about PT), if u think the start point of my idea (boards) is not right or enough (i respect that), so let's look another: more than 4000 people have voted here

 

look at poll results (it is active), i guess it is objective enough, as long as it is not my own idea...

 

That isn't really a fair poll now it is a year out of date. Melee classes tend to be favoured when it's star wars, the lightsaber is kinda awesome but with the amount of stuns, mezz, slow & roots in the game at the moment ranged is definitely dominant. There are a couple of melee per warzone.

 

and i never said sniper's damage is weak but i might have said sniper is weak... There is a difference.

more clearly : they are not weak according to their roles in team, but they are weak against the top tier classes which are strong enough or OP. at this point they were weak and they still are. (it was about balance not for insulting some classes.)

 

Snipers are not weak, in 1v1 they are awesome. They die constantly because of focus, you can't leave a sniper freecasting because it can destroy teams. Like a merc/mando damage is way too good to be left roaming free.

 

about that: sages/sorcs they can be hybrid but can not be analysed as a complete ranged class.

 

I kinda see where you are coming from but sages/sorc abilities are all ranged except for pushbacks and stuns so i personally see them as ranged.

 

Precision mechanic is hinky. Give Precision some damage as well as extend it's duration by 2 seconds.

Yes a few of us want gore/precision to return to something worth having, there have been a few suggestions of people asking for it to be charges instead of seconds.

 

Master strike feels considerably underpowered, give it some more front end damage.

 

Yes it is weaker but it's cooldown has been reduced, as a carnage mara with 33% alacrity boost the cooldown of ravage/MS is 12secs. Which is awesome.

 

Resource bounces around like a yo-yo and can take some time to ramp up. Give some additional resource building to Force Leap. Jumping into combat at start but with no resource available is pretty boring.

 

Try saving your rage/focus builder until after doing an attack, force leap - then massacre then use builder, it helps a little. I do agree that rage/focus is a bit springy.

 

Sentinel could use another ranged attack like Twin Saber Throw or a reduced CD on Force Leap.

 

I would love another ranged attack above 10m, would be unfair though considering we are melee, how about a reduced cooldown of force leap after using it. Like after using dual/twin saber throw the active cooldown of force charge/leap is reduced by 50%?

 

Guided by the Force needs to be fixed. Remove the 50% loss in HP after it wears off. Do other classes have this penalty for their bubbles?

 

Got some good news for you latest patch notes: You have to read this =]

 

Could give Sentinel another remove stun CD for PvP.

 

Yes please but it will never happen =[ I want a heal personally, saw some great suggestions out there. Like have force camo heal for 5% every sec whilst in camo. Decent amount of healing whilst hiding for a few secs could change the game.

 

Clashing Blasts continues to highlight when it's on cooldown. Make the highlight only show when it's OFF cooldown.

 

I think that this is an option in your customise UI? You might be able to change it. I personally like that i know i have an execution crit waiting for me =]

 

Sorry for the long post, wanted to answer these