Sentinel and Marauder Changes

[Genghistwelve]

The class is not as much fun currently as It has been in the past, primarily because of the lack of frantic necessity to make instant choices on ability use due to the random refresh proc'ing that were in place, along with the never-miss but uncontrolled triggering Retaliation, and the 6s Force Kick. All of these need to be returned, to add back a little bit of the _fun_ craziness.

 

Base Design Philosophy: I'm pretty sure Jedi Sentinel should be the highest damaging spec. in the game. This is defined via some inclusion of quantifiable metrics as follows: average all damage from all DPS specs in game using the appropriate baseline standard gear [currently Dark Reaver for PVP / Revanite for PVE]. The average of all Jedi Sentinel damage should be roughly 2.5% higher than that average. When compared to the averages of all other DPS specs., the Jedi Sentinel should be higher than all, but no higher than 5% of the lowest DPS spec. Also, fine tuning of class balance should reflect that the Jedi Sentinel may also do the highest theoretical possible/maximum damage of any DPS spec. As the DOT-spec. for Jedi Sentinel, Jedi Watchman should do the highest average damage of all Jedi Sentinel classes, and should also do the highest possible damage of any Jedi Sentinel specs. Use combination of buffs/nerfs to base ability damage achieve this end.

 

Base Abilities:

 

Retaliation. Return Retaliation, with maybe something like "Melting Puncture" debuff. Melting Puncture applies a X% [5%?] armor debuff for Ys [10s?] and increases all elemental damage from burns by Z% [5%?]. Melting Puncture may not be applied more than once per 60s. (Recall Retaliation had an 8s window after successful directly-applied attack, and never missed.)

 

Revert self-heals to 2%.

 

Revert GbtF to launch.

 

Return CD to cauterize; add CD to Force Melt. Additionally add RNG ability CD refreshes back into the mix.

 

1st Tier Utilities:

 

Improved Force Kick: Reduces cooldown of Force Kick to 6s. This is primary for the purpose of returning Watchman back to the traditional role of locking down the healer.

 

Internal Combustion: Force Choke also burns the target for the duration, doing additional Elemental Internal] damage.

 

2nd Tier Utilities:

 

Cleansing Burn: Passive ability. Each burn has a X% [15%?] chance to immediately remove all movement-impairing effects.

 

Peripheral Watch: 30s cooldown. 10s duration. The Watchman gains 100% immunity to stuns applied in the front 180-degree arc. [Alternately, make it a passive proc not more than once every 30s or 60s that auto-immunes same?]

 

3rd Tier Utilities:

 

Purifying Burn: Passive abilitiy. Each burn has a X% [15%?] chance to immediately remove all stun effects.

 

Fountain of Green: Passive ability. Must be in Juyo form. Each use of Zen grants 1-stack of The Force is My Ally. Stacks up to 4 times. Each stack of The Force is My Ally adds an additional healing for 0.5% of total health on that use of Zen. The end of Zen on the 4th stack resets stacks of The Force is My Ally to 0. (yes, that's right -- we progressively increase to __4%__ heals. Why not add a Sent. Healer spec. that could likely do a reliable 1500-2000 hps with ehps around 1400-1600.)

 

Fire of the Phoenix: 120s cooldown. 60s ability duration. 5m range. On use, all burns applied to a target for the ability duration are held by the caster in a reserve pool, damaging the player each second for 1% of the total, also reducing the reserve pool by that amount. On second use, the total remaining reserve may be applied to a target instantly as elemental damage. An additional x% [25%?] of that damage is applied to the player instantly as elemental damage. If the ability duration expires, XX% [400%] of the remaining damage in the pool is applied to the player as elemental damage.

 

Fire of Penance: Passive ability. Each burn has a 10% chance to remove a single buff from the target. This effect cannot occur more than once per 6s. Flashpoint and Operations bosses are immune to this effect.

 

Alternately instead of "Fire of Penance," maybe something like "Merciless Breach" which does the same thing on use of Merciless Slash. I sort of like this better because of the Merciless stacks reducing time.

 

Just some interesting mechanics that could freshen up the Sent experience.

[calamatiesend]

The class is not as much fun currently as It has been in the past, primarily because of the lack of frantic necessity to make instant choices on ability use due to the random refresh proc'ing that were in place, along with the never-miss but uncontrolled triggering Retaliation, and the 6s Force Kick. All of these need to be returned, to add back a little bit of the _fun_ craziness.

 

Base Design Philosophy: I'm pretty sure Jedi Sentinel should be the highest damaging spec. in the game. This is defined via some inclusion of quantifiable metrics as follows: average all damage from all DPS specs in game using the appropriate baseline standard gear [currently Dark Reaver for PVP / Revanite for PVE]. The average of all Jedi Sentinel damage should be roughly 2.5% higher than that average. When compared to the averages of all other DPS specs., the Jedi Sentinel should be higher than all, but no higher than 5% of the lowest DPS spec. Also, fine tuning of class balance should reflect that the Jedi Sentinel may also do the highest theoretical possible/maximum damage of any DPS spec. As the DOT-spec. for Jedi Sentinel, Jedi Watchman should do the highest average damage of all Jedi Sentinel classes, and should also do the highest possible damage of any Jedi Sentinel specs. Use combination of buffs/nerfs to base ability damage achieve this end.

 

Base Abilities:

 

Retaliation. Return Retaliation, with maybe something like "Melting Puncture" debuff. Melting Puncture applies a X% [5%?] armor debuff for Ys [10s?] and increases all elemental damage from burns by Z% [5%?]. Melting Puncture may not be applied more than once per 60s. (Recall Retaliation had an 8s window after successful directly-applied attack, and never missed.)

 

Revert self-heals to 2%.

 

Revert GbtF to launch.

 

Return CD to cauterize; add CD to Force Melt. Additionally add RNG ability CD refreshes back into the mix.

 

1st Tier Utilities:

 

Improved Force Kick: Reduces cooldown of Force Kick to 6s. This is primary for the purpose of returning Watchman back to the traditional role of locking down the healer.

 

Internal Combustion: Force Choke also burns the target for the duration, doing additional Elemental Internal] damage.

 

2nd Tier Utilities:

 

Cleansing Burn: Passive ability. Each burn has a X% [15%?] chance to immediately remove all movement-impairing effects.

 

Peripheral Watch: 30s cooldown. 10s duration. The Watchman gains 100% immunity to stuns applied in the front 180-degree arc. [Alternately, make it a passive proc not more than once every 30s or 60s that auto-immunes same?]

 

3rd Tier Utilities:

 

Purifying Burn: Passive abilitiy. Each burn has a X% [15%?] chance to immediately remove all stun effects.

 

Fountain of Green: Passive ability. Must be in Juyo form. Each use of Zen grants 1-stack of The Force is My Ally. Stacks up to 4 times. Each stack of The Force is My Ally adds an additional healing for 0.5% of total health on that use of Zen. The end of Zen on the 4th stack resets stacks of The Force is My Ally to 0. (yes, that's right -- we progressively increase to __4%__ heals. Why not add a Sent. Healer spec. that could likely do a reliable 1500-2000 hps with ehps around 1400-1600.)

 

Fire of the Phoenix: 120s cooldown. 60s ability duration. 5m range. On use, all burns applied to a target for the ability duration are held by the caster in a reserve pool, damaging the player each second for 1% of the total, also reducing the reserve pool by that amount. On second use, the total remaining reserve may be applied to a target instantly as elemental damage. An additional x% [25%?] of that damage is applied to the player instantly as elemental damage. If the ability duration expires, XX% [400%] of the remaining damage in the pool is applied to the player as elemental damage.

 

Fire of Penance: Passive ability. Each burn has a 10% chance to remove a single buff from the target. This effect cannot occur more than once per 6s. Flashpoint and Operations bosses are immune to this effect.

 

Alternately instead of "Fire of Penance," maybe something like "Merciless Breach" which does the same thing on use of Merciless Slash. I sort of like this better because of the Merciless stacks reducing time.

 

Just some interesting mechanics that could freshen up the Sent experience.

 

Some of these are ridiculously OP, but I do like the new ideas/different direction you went in. Unfortunately the devs do not always have that kind of insight. It would also be very tough to balance.

 

The idea of having dots give a % chance to cleanse roots/slows is awesome and I think that would be a cool way to add some time on target/mobility in ways that are unique to the class. I hope they go this way instead of just trans being new Mara HO

[calamatiesend]

I guess we have a different definition of iconic. To me, an active skill like Guardian Leap is iconic. It is something that, by its function and nature, clearly says guardian, and not sentinel or another class. With all the recent tree simplification and streamlining though, things change. Unremitting is a passive, attached to Force Leap, a skill that is iconic to the JK basic class.

 

I've played a sent since beta more than I have a guardian, but as I recall guards had saber throw long before sents got their twin saber throw at lvl 51 (makeb expansion). So was that just copy and pasting? Or was that a logical addition to a class that needed another ranged skill, one that would logically also have some type of saber throw? So would adding in a passive to adjust mechanics that are woefully out of whack...a PASSIVE...would that be copying and pasting, or again, simply taking a logical step to give a basic JK skill, force leap, the same perks for one build that uses it FOR THE SAME THING as another one does? That answer is pretty clear.

 

Also, it is hilarious to hear you talk about copying and pasting...HALF THE CLASSES in the game are copy/pasted from the other half, with just different animations slapped on top...then you have EVERY AC that shares a basic skill set, say a skill like FORCE LEAP, with it another AC....so actually, IN THIS GAME, different classes ARE NOT ALWAYS or NECESSARILY different. So there, YOU just lost all credibility...lol, because in THIS game more often it is the case that different classes have a twin (sage = sorc, etc.), or have a lot of commonality through a common basic class.

 

Anyway, who knows what the devs will do on this rollercoaster of imbalance, and whether the changes they make will help, hurt, or do both. SO cheers.

 

Agree to disagree, but unstop/unremit have always been iconic and unique to shien form(well hybrids had this but they realized it eventually) which is veng/vig spec. To say otherwise shows you either haven't played a veng jug or do not know the classes.

 

We need a unique way to deal with roots/kbs/slows that is not a copy of another class. Pred/trans is an obvious suggestion but it too will look a lot like HO/HtL if we can root/slow/kb immunity for the duration....

 

I will say it again, we need a small tweak to DCDs *cough* UR/GbTF fix *cough* and fixing some defensive utilities and then we need a way to increase our mobility/time on target that is unique to maras/sents and makes sense with the specs/class.

 

Also just an FYI if we got unstop/unremit, we will instantly be OP and then nerfed the following set of balance changes. You can absolutely destroy someone in a gore window if they cannot cc or kb or root you..... 2 maras jumping to a target would mean either blow DCDs/oh **** button or get destroyed in the 4 secs when you could not stop us..... and we could do that every 12 seconds or less with berserk...... does that sound fair to you?

Edited January 22, 2015 by calamatiesend

[Vincentius]

I feel like it's highly unlikely, that Crippling Throw will come back. Though, if, let's say, a utility was added, to make Dual Saberthrow's 50% slow a root, that would be quite nice. I'd definitely like to see it replacing Crippling Slash's root utility.

 

As for Carnage, there have been ideas, that Gore is refreshed, if the player is stunned while Gore is active. I quite like that. It really doesn't need one more hard hitter, it's still a discipline, that does a great amount of damage...Perhaps damage taken reduced while stunned, through utility. Maybe tied in to Displacement, after all, you can activate Cloak of Pain while stun is active, if you take that utility. Defensive Roll should be taken back to Carnage as well. Maybe Gore increased to 4 seconds.

 

Undying Rage doesn't need that 50% health removal. Unless the damage dealt is increased, while it's active, there should be no penalty for using it. If there is, it should be up front. And healing received shouldn't be reduced either.

 

Annihilation is starving a bit from Rage, that should be addressed, with perhaps Annihilator reducing Annihilation's Rage cost, IMO. DoTspread on DST is definitely more comfortable, than on Smash.

 

The cleanse on Camouflage should be put to the utility, that increases Predation's speedboost, and Predation's cleanse should be baseline.

 

Saber Ward's CD should be lowered to 2 minutes, perhaps a stun immunity while it's active. Root and snare immunity is not needed for it, there's Camo and Predation for that already.

 

Maybe a bit of tweaking to the damage that Cloak of Pain deals.

 

Just a few ideas to contribute with.

[Emperor-Norton]

Addition to Watchman/Anni suggestions:

 

If the proc on Double/Twin Saber Throw stays in, make it also reset DST/TST's Cooldown.

 

Atm you avoid using it unprocced for adds (which I think it was designed for), since it's such a strong single target part of the rotation (and a free one at that), so you can't really afford to miss it on the main target (given how resource starved the single target rotation is).

 

This would leave single target output untouched, since you don't use DST/TST on single target without the procc anyway. So you would use DST/TST on adds unprocced, or if you happen to have the procc when they spawn, with proc. Either way you don't miss out on the next possible proc on your main target.

I think it should stay in, but I do like the idea of making it reset the cooldown on TST, especially if we have the vastly desired change to having it spread dots.

[Ardarell_Solo]

I think it should stay in, but I do like the idea of making it reset the cooldown on TST, especially if we have the vastly desired change to having it spread dots.

 

*brofist*

[StreetPunk]

I wanted to add my thought about removing Crippling Throw and "new" Leg Slash. You see, dear Bioware, you removed distant root and gave us melee with a huge BUT. You need 2 GCD in MELEE to root target. Plus spend utility point ofc. I don't want to disappoint you but it was clearly - nerf. To keep Sent/Mara competitive enough among other classes you mustn't do that. Plus in 3.0 reality PvP there's no such thing as spend 2 GCD in MELEE range to root target...it's sucks. It sucks even more with all those roots over white resolve bar and Sniper's rolls and so on. The list is too long.

 

In other hand if it was disturbing because of same as dispatch animation, you can make throw from left hand and if u want so - with other amplitude...let's say such as Voltaic Slash..but without so many turns (rolls).

 

If you still worry about leg slash helpfulness...well...it's sucks..such as Incisor utility. Incisor is arguable but I think it's sucks. Make utility that will provide root on Crippling Throw and at the same time reduce cost of leg slash to 1 focus. In other cases personally I won't use leg slash.

[DuckimusPrime]

1st Tier Utilities:

Improved Force Kick: Reduces cooldown of Force Kick to 6s. This is primary for the purpose of returning Watchman back to the traditional role of locking down the healer.

Internal Combustion: Force Choke also burns the target for the duration, doing additional Elemental Internal] damage.

 

2nd Tier Utilities:

Cleansing Burn: Passive ability. Each burn has a X% [15%?] chance to immediately remove all movement-impairing effects.

Peripheral Watch: 30s cooldown. 10s duration. The Watchman gains 100% immunity to stuns applied in the front 180-degree arc. [Alternately, make it a passive proc not more than once every 30s or 60s that auto-immunes same?]

 

3rd Tier Utilities:

Purifying Burn: Passive abilitiy. Each burn has a X% [15%?] chance to immediately remove all stun effects.

Fountain of Green: Passive ability. Must be in Juyo form. Each use of Zen grants 1-stack of The Force is My Ally. Stacks up to 4 times. Each stack of The Force is My Ally adds an additional healing for 0.5% of total health on that use of Zen. The end of Zen on the 4th stack resets stacks of The Force is My Ally to 0. (yes, that's right -- we progressively increase to __4%__ heals. Why not add a Sent. Healer spec. that could likely do a reliable 1500-2000 hps with ehps around 1400-1600.)

Fire of the Phoenix: 120s cooldown. 60s ability duration. 5m range. On use, all burns applied to a target for the ability duration are held by the caster in a reserve pool, damaging the player each second for 1% of the total, also reducing the reserve pool by that amount. On second use, the total remaining reserve may be applied to a target instantly as elemental damage. An additional x% [25%?] of that damage is applied to the player instantly as elemental damage. If the ability duration expires, XX% [400%] of the remaining damage in the pool is applied to the player as elemental damage.

Fire of Penance: Passive ability. Each burn has a 10% chance to remove a single buff from the target. This effect cannot occur more than once per 6s. Flashpoint and Operations bosses are immune to this effect.

 

Utilities aren't unique to disciplines, they're unique to advanced classes, so these would be a whole bunch of wasted space for Combat and Concentration players.

[Ycoga]

We need the charge system that was mentioned in a dev post last year. Gore should give like 5 charges, Ravage and Force Scream each take 2 charges, any other ability takes 1. Let these chages last long enough so we can still use them after one knockback or something. And yes, the Finisher proc should also apply a root.

 

We should get additional utility against kiting/roots in the utlitiy tiers and some of the less useful stuff there should become a passive (like Defensive Forms or Contemplation).

Transcendence should give immunity to roots (which would force use to choose between dmg and utility though) and Force Charge should give a short window of immunity against movement impairing effects, or get a CD reduction everytime we get impaired. Or being usably while rooted.

 

Ravage should be castable while moving, to give the class more of a fluent feeling. Would still be easily countered.

 

Anni/Watchman should get the 2% healing back and something needs to be done to the rotation.

 

Undying Rage should go back to its old form.

God, you make words sound so boring.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Ycoga

[DarkNecroCrusher]

I made a thread to give a solid feedback to the devs when 3.1.1 will hit PTS server.

 

I think it can avoid us to write 50+ pages in the official sent/mara thread with players debating about what they want or what they don't want at all, or trying to show they have the best ideas and that everybody else don't know sent/mara as much as they do.

 

Feel free to add your suggestions and give your thoughts here :

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=792229

Edited January 23, 2015 by DarkNecroCrusher

[Ramtar]

I'm for a total revamp of the Sentinel/Marauder classes.

[DynamiCtagez]

God, you make words sound so boring.

 

What?

[Hawk_IV]

Sentinels and Marauders need mobility, mobility, and.... mobility.

All other classes are walking circles around them. Transcendence/Predation makes our allies circle us faster.

 

Something that would be very difficult to put together (like Phase Walk) but would be fun - positional Force Leap/Charge? AOE circle on screen for us to choose where we Leap/Charge to. (Which would need to be limited)

 

Just an idea. So many problems with my idea, but hey - if I gave you a teleporting idea then that would sound silly too!

But Phase Walk is already in-game and awesome (Thanks again )

[RodneyMcNeely]

Sentinels and Marauders need mobility, mobility, and.... mobility.

All other classes are walking circles around them. Transcendence/Predation makes our allies circle us faster.

This is the honest-to-God truth. I just got my Combat Sentinel to 40 (been PvPing with him since level 10) and I've decided we need a new advanced class name.

 

I was thinking maybe "Sitting Duck" or "Good Luck Chasing Targets You're NEVER Gonna Catch".

 

[Killerzunion]

Hey all,

 

First off thank you Eric Musco for the update. I'm quite interested to see what changes the devs have in store for Sentinels/ Marauders! (DEVS PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING!!!!)

 

Secondly, I do not fully understand why these changes will be necessary. Are people griping about the play style of sents/ maras as it currently is in 3.0 that much?

 

I will agree/ concede that:

-in PvP sents/ maras are easily kited by quite a few classes (even some classes that probably shouldn't be able to kite)

-Watchman/ Anni is a bit clunky to play (too many dots / buffs you need to keep an eye on), but it is quite play-able in both PvP and PvE (Yes haters, I've have tried it for myself). Really just need some quality of life changes here to smooth out the rotation and it would be cake.

-Concentration has way too many buttons

and

-last time I checked the utility where saberward healed you for like 2% every time you take damage... was broken (but they may have fixed it by now, not really sure. Haven't cared to check lol)

-some of the current sent/ mara utilities are not as useful as the utilities for other classes (like the shadow utilities)

Lastly,

- I would love to have GBtF become useful again (because really it only prolongs the inevitable because there is almost never a healer dedicated to healing only the sent/ mara)

-May I suggest either 1: Take GBtF out and give us a force push ability (with a pushback range of say 10 meters rather than guardians/ juggs with like 100 meter push lol) that resets the CD on force leap.

Or 2: Give the defensive effects of Force Camo (the 15% movement speed incr and ranged/ melee defense incr) to GBtF visual effect (the glowy shield) and make Force camo purely an aggro drop with immobilize purge. Or switch the visual effects however you want (just a suggestion)... PLEASE THINK IT OVER!

I think these would be simple/ easy/ fast changes to make, that many people would be happy with.

 

Next,

When did anyone say life was fair? Because I missed that memo (lol-I jest).

But seriously, the current state of sent/ mara class is fine imo. For PvP yes sometimes all that happens is I get CC'd or immobilized to death (literally, until I die), but one: that's luck of the draw, too many people Queuing as flavor of the month classes while you're on your sent/ mara, and honestly everyone gripes about this issue as a melee toon. Two: there is a counter to that... (HEALERS CAN CLEANSE CCs/ IMMOBILIZES!!! So they need to learn to do it in PvP. I mean honestly, they usually know how to cleanse in PvE: so freaking yell at them to learn to do it in PvP). If there isn't a healer in your group, well chances are you're SOL anyways and more than likely weren't going to win in the first place(because evry match I play the other team always has 1-2 healers-maybe it's just me)...

 

PvE wise the DPS numbers are pretty on par between the specs and classes from what I've seen. So their DPS doesn't need a boost really.

 

Thanks all.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Killerzunion

[Shatterstar]

You can't do dps when you are cc'd/dead though. But if you can stay on target, it should be fine. The biggest issue for the class in pvp, is the lack of mobility and anti-kite ability in a class that needs to be at 4m to be effective (for the most part). Fix UR to be useful, and give mara some mobility, and they should be fine.

[Zadtro]

I like the idea of gore/precision window being charges instead of seconds, you get 3 attacks that ignore armor. Atleas we could loose the damage window every dam time =]

 

Make predation immune to movement throughout its duration and give it a cooldown and not require 30stacks, make it hydraulic overides but only give movement immunity to sent/mara.

[Juithtin]

I'm a little late to the party on this but here are a few ideas I've had; keep in mind, I focus on Watchman more than the other two specs and PvP 99% of the time.

 

Make Camo a baseline root break.

Force Leap grants immunity to roots/snares and pulls/pushes (still susceptible to stuns/mezzes)

Removing Transcendence from the Centering system with a Xs cooldown (would actually make it worth while to use for Watchman/Concentration)

Revert GbtF or; remove health consumption entirely and add 50% heal debuff for it's duration and 3s after

Revert Master Strike back to 30s

 

 

Watchman:

Make the resource proc system more reliable

Force Leap can be used while rooted

Cauterize has a slow built into it

Dot Spread moved from Sweep to DST (also agree with the DST proc resetting the cooldown)

Increase Self Heals to 2% and stacks with 1% from Zen

 

Rework Force Melt:

Lower it to 12s in line with Cauterize - change damage accordingly. Change Accelerating Victory proc: Each use of Merciless Slash grants 1 stack of Accelerating Victory - at 4 stacks, Force Melt deals its damage instantly and refreshes the duration of Cauterize and Force Melt (in dot form). (It's nearly 1am, and I just had this idea - so take it with a grain of salt if it's not as amazing as my mind currently thinks it is)

 

 

Utilities:

Watchguard: As is, but with the Force Kick cd reduction at 4s (instead of 2)

 

Force Fade: As is and reduces Camo cooldown by 15s (unless they change the baseline cooldown then leave as is)

 

Fleetfooted: Grants Movement immunity for the duration (Caster only) + current effects

 

Expunging Camouflage: Grants immunity and purge during the duration of Force Camo

 

Just Pursuit: Leg Slash now costs 1 Focus and roots the target for 3 seconds, then slows the target for 6. Root cannot occur more than once every 10s.

 

Zealous Ward: Increase the healing from 3 to 5%, additionally reduces the cooldown of Saber Ward by 45seconds. Alternatively; give CC immunity for the duration

 

Other: Add in a 30% DR while stunned - was thinking to either Jedi Crusader, Defesnive Rolls or Displacement.

[MarcusCasanova]

I will only speak about genereal PVP-related (!!!) class changes and Carnage/Combat spec, because that's the spec I play the most atm:

 

 

• Ravage should be castable while moving. It is ridiculous that it still isn't after all the RANGED classes can cast their most important attacks while moving now, while a Sentinel still can't. Have you ever seen a Jedi stand completely still while fighting?
  This should be added to the SKILLFUL tier and replace Defensive Forms, which should become a passive instead.
  
• GBTF should get reverted to its old form. Take the health before activation. Compared to what other classes get, it's a joke right now.
  
• Dispatch should get its CD reverted to what it was before.
  
• In the MASTERFUL tier, Watchguard and Displacement should be merged into one and Contemplation should move up from the HEROIC tier to replace it.
  
• In the HEROIC tier, Force Aegis and Enduring should be merged into one. Together with Contemplation moving up to MASTERFUL this would open up two spots in the HEROIC tier. Give us some strong defense or offense here, so it's actually worth CHOOSING. We can only get two of them so you can give us some powerful stuff. Something like a big damage buff after Force Leap (like 25%, you took the 10% from the old setbonus anyway). I'm not a big fan of stun immunity after every leap, I think that should stay unique to Guardians/Juggernauts. Rather only immunity to movement impairing effects after a leap, so we don't get knockback-rooted instantly. Or, what I would like even more, let Force Leap purge all movement impairing effects at activation. That would require smart use of the ability, to not end up in a root 1 sec later.
  

 

Now to Combat/Carnage spec:

 

 

• Gore should get the charge system you talked about in some of your old dev posts. Whenever you use Gore you should get like 4 or 5 charges. Put a timer on them and let Ravage take 2 or 3 of the charges, so it doesn't get too powerful. One should be able to fit at least one full Ravage and Clashing Blast/Bladestorm into one Gore.
  
• A ranged root of sorts is needed for Combat/Carnage, after you took Crippling Throw from us. You could merge it with the Dipatch proc.
  

 

Plus: as said before Close quarters should be a passive for all Disciplines. And Expunging Camo should be changed to apply to Force Leap instead of Force Camo. IMO

[La_Frite]

Hi,

For Annihilation/Watchman, I think the self-heal must be scaled with the damage of DoTs, like the Hatred Assassin.

A sustained self-heal is more effective than a RNG self-heal.

For example:

1) 25% damage of DoTs heal the Marauder/Sentinel.

2) When Berserk is active, the next 6 DoTs crit and heal for 50% damage the Marauder and his team.

Edited January 28, 2015 by La_Frite

[hampsterpower]

Hi,

For Annihilation/Watchman, I think the self-heal must be scaled with the damage of DoTs, like the Hatred Assassin.

A sustained self-heal is more effective than a RNG self-heal.

For example: - 25% damage of DoTs heal the Marauder/Sentinel.

- When Berserk is active, the next 6 DoTs crit and heal for 50% damage the Marauder and his team.

 

I completely agree with this. Would definitely help at least the watchman survivability. Not sure why serenity/balance got this and not watchman.

[aq_swagga]

I am writing this post from a purely PvP perspective.

 

Anyone who is suggesting any sort of CC immunity doesn't fully understand how the class plays or what it is meant to do in PvP. At the core of the Sentinel/Marauder class, it is meant to be the highest DPSing class in the game (by a margin of maybe 2% or 3%, but don't quote me on that) when given 100% uptime on a target.

 

Anyone who has played Sent/Mara in COMPETITIVE 4s or 8v8s knows that for Carnage/Combat, CC inmunity after leap would be WAY too OP. The discipline has a potential to do over 20k damage in less than 2 standard global cooldowns, and under berserk/zen we are able to get off a ravage/master stike and devastating blast/clashing blast at just under 3 seconds (even easier with a bit of alacrity). Having 4 seconds of CC immunity every 15 seconds (12 seconds for watchman/annihilation) would give us the ability to get that combo off every time it's available, and the only way to stop it would be to use a DCD to get away.

 

I would say that CC immunity after leap would only be suitable for watchman/annihilation, as they have a decent amount of set up to reach optimal DPS. As for fury/concentration, the way the class functions now it wouldn't benefit as much from CC immunity, though nonetheless it would help to keep on target. Though I'll admit i have not played these 2 disciplines to their maximum potential as they are now, so if anyone can make a case for CC immunity for fury/concentration or annihilation/watchman, I'm all ears.

 

I've also read some suggestions on giving CC immunity for the duration of Saber Ward, and that would just be ludicrously overpowered. If you know what you're doing, no one would be able to stop you for those 12 seconds.

 

Though I whole heartedly agree that sents/maras need a mobility buff (root break + root immunity for the duration of predation/transcendence) and defensive buff especially concerning GbtF/UD. Reducing the cooldown of saber ward, and making defensive forms, dual wield mastery, and purge on camo baseline would be best IMO. Bringing back deadly throw/crippling throw and its root is also a MUST, such an unnecessary nerf.

 

 

TL;DR:

 

CC immunity would make the top 5% of sents/maras overpowered in their killing potential. Give them a healer and tank and you might as well /stuck. All we need is a mobility and defensive buff. Class balance should be based around the top players who play the class to its maximum potential, not the bads who cry for buffs because leap, gore, ravage, devasting blast never works for them.

Edited January 28, 2015 by aq_swagga

[ahzecklawd]

 

let Force Leap purge all movement impairing effects at activation. That would require smart use of the ability, to not end up in a root 1 sec later.

 

 

Now to Combat/Carnage spec:

 

 

• Gore should get the charge system you talked about in some of your old dev posts. Whenever you use Gore you should get like 4 or 5 charges. Put a timer on them and let Ravage take 2 or 3 of the charges, so it doesn't get too powerful. One should be able to fit at least one full Ravage and Clashing Blast/Bladestorm into one Gore.
  
• A ranged root of sorts is needed for Combat/Carnage, after you took Crippling Throw from us. You could merge it with the Dipatch proc.
  

 

^

Exactly what we need,require to compete with other DPS-Classes out there.Removing CT was a pointless decision (which made no sense to me in the first place).We're in a very bad spot for Yolo at the moment,hopefully 3.1 will FINALLY! fix some of the (broken) Mechanics.

[Trevor_the_Bruce]

CC immunity would make the top 5% of sents/maras overpowered in their killing potential. Give them a healer and tank and you might as well /stuck. All we need is a mobility and defensive buff. Class balance should be based around the top players who play the class to its maximum potential, not the bads who cry for buffs because leap, gore, ravage, devasting blast never works for them.

 

I agree with these points. I think the cool down should be reduced for Saber Ward and earlier you said that if we could have immunity to movement cc/roots during transendance/predation is an excellent idea. Maruaders/Sentinels is the hardest class to master and there are a lot of bads that really don't know what they are talking about when it comes to class balance. I'm still new to the calss, but i consider myself to be above average/good compared to a lot of Marauders I've seen, but no way am I anyway near that 5% of top sents/mara's and that 5% should really be listened to when it comes to class balance.

[Dyvim]

A charge system for Precision is a great idea. Not sure how that would work with masterstrike, though.

 

As far as cc immunity goes...we need more time on target. All three builds need it. Sure, combat is burst, but you still need THE RIGHT window on target, and if you get cc'd or knocked back, or you name it, during that 3 second window, then poof goes the dps...it is so trivial to shut the class down...its about as challenging for other classes as fishing with dynamite...and watchman has to have time to get through that rotation...you know, essentially the same one serenity shadows can do from 10 to 30 m, depending. SERIOUSLY, they get to DoT spread with nice AoE damage from THIRTY meters...

 

How we get more up time/cc immunity is the question...through transcendence is an f'all stupid idea, since to have a LITTLE more time on target, we will have to gut the zen component on our offense. That is a BIG opportunity cost. Not a great idea. I prefer some type of immunity attached to force leap...when you close, getting immediately shut down is stupid. we have one main closer, and that doesn't work against a couple of classes now as is...they can defeat it BEFORE we even can use it...then all the other classes have multiple ways to defeat it after we use it. That is simply wrong. That is the essence of our time on target problem. People claim that if we get to burst, it will be op...but isn't that what we are supposed to do? Isnt that combat's one trick pony? I get bursted by ranged classes...slingers....tactics VGs with those damn shoulder missiles...sorc's...ALL THE TIME...why are their RANGED bursts not OP, especially when they can do them FROM RANGE?

 

We have to have something closer to an appearance of balance. Can you even count the number of ways our leap can be defeated? knock backs, stuns, my current favorite is getting force pushed back or harpooned away right after a leap...then hit with a slow...you are completely screwed for the next 15 seconds with no closer, no way to build resource, few ranged options....you just die if force camo is on cooldown, then you can get slowed again, knocked back again, rooted after the knockback...or burst a sorc bubble and get cc;d for 3 seconds, or, or, or....its an f'all endless list. And they keep adding more. We are in an arms race of cc addition, and as melee we get screwed the most by it. We are the most susceptible to it....far more susceptible than ranged.

 

Maybe something where melee builds resolve faster...since melee is at an INHERENT disadvantage. These posters that are so flippin whiny about OP-ness that MIGHT happen need to be a little more worried about THE OP-NESS that IS HAPPENING now that we get wiped with everyday.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Dyvim