Bioware, please consider some PvP Balancing by actual Skilled Arena players.

[Aetideus]

if you're going to neuter EB, I think you at least have to reduce its "cd." at 75%, I'd cut the "cd" in half (2 stacks). now you've cut down burst without breaking (in fact slightly increasing) sustained. but I still disagree on making any other changes until you actually see the class in action w/o the broken SC. I don't like preloading it with out of combat heal. I don't think that would matter at all if it's a 2-stack abil, and it matters only w/o heals & tank at present.

 

That's good, but I don't really believe that AP has sustainability problem in PvP. A reduced crit at 10k would preferable than 2x5k at 2 stacks.

[foxmob]

That's good, but I don't really believe that AP has sustainability problem in PvP. A reduced crit at 10k would preferable than 2x5k at 2 stacks.

 

overall dmg is fine, but it's bursty. if you fix the ICD on SC, the sustained doesn't change, but the burst does. if you nerf EB by 25%, you're cutting into burst AND sustained. the burst is too much. most ppl agree on that, but since the overall dmg is already ~equal to plasmatech (obviously on a dummy cuz no one but a dummy would sit in all of his PFTs), you need to be very careful about cutting into their sustained.

 

so again, if you have to nerf EB -- and I'm not sold on that -- then you need to compensate in sustained else you're affecting PVE (which is mostly sustained). so I would say, ok. reduce the burst, but also reduce the cycle. this lowers the size of the burst spike but increases its frequency. you don't have to deal with the ridiculousness of 2 rails, a full EB and 7 rockets in the span of 2-3 gcd, but you do have to deal with a more frequent, smaller burst.

 

anyway, it's all premature. fix SC ICD and you can have the preloading of EB. anything else is overkill without extensive "real world" testing.

[ToMyMa]

overall dmg is fine, but it's bursty. if you fix the ICD on SC, the sustained doesn't change, but the burst does. if you nerf EB by 25%, you're cutting into burst AND sustained. the burst is too much. most ppl agree on that, but since the overall dmg is already ~equal to plasmatech (obviously on a dummy cuz no one but a dummy would sit in all of his PFTs), you need to be very careful about cutting into their sustained.

 

so again, if you have to nerf EB -- and I'm not sold on that -- then you need to compensate in sustained else you're affecting PVE (which is mostly sustained). so I would say, ok. reduce the burst, but also reduce the cycle. this lowers the size of the burst spike but increases its frequency. you don't have to deal with the ridiculousness of 2 rails, a full EB and 7 rockets in the span of 2-3 gcd, but you do have to deal with a more frequent, smaller burst.

 

anyway, it's all premature. fix SC ICD and you can have the preloading of EB. anything else is overkill without extensive "real world" testing.

 

To be completely honest, I think our #1 priority shouldn't be nerfing pts (since they actually have a weakness), but rather nerfing assassins (and by some extension sorcs). Assassins have everything packed into a single class, so take some of that away and the balancing of the other classes may commence.

[alexsamma]

To be completely honest, I think our #1 priority shouldn't be nerfing pts (since they actually have a weakness), but rather nerfing assassins (and by some extension sorcs). Assassins have everything packed into a single class, so take some of that away and the balancing of the other classes may commence.

 

No, powertech is broken is all three pvp formats and needs to be addressed as much as any of the other "OP" classes.

 

Too much control, too much mobility, too much range for a melee, and to much burst - the fact that they can't survive being tunneled by four dps isn't a weakness.

[Floplag]

No, powertech is broken is all three pvp formats and needs to be addressed as much as any of the other "OP" classes.

 

Too much control, too much mobility, too much range for a melee, and to much burst - the fact that they can't survive being tunneled by four dps isn't a weakness.

 

and yet, the Sin/Shadow has more of all of the above... all the discussion about PTs/Juggs is nothing more than distraction from the real issues pertaining to Sins/Sorcs, any talk of balance has to start there, end of story

[Evolixe]

and yet, the Sin/Shadow has more of all of the above... all the discussion about PTs/Juggs is nothing more than distraction from the real issues pertaining to Sins/Sorcs, any talk of balance has to start there, end of story

 

Please show me how sins have more burst than PT's..

[alexsamma]

and yet, the Sin/Shadow has more of all of the above... all the discussion about PTs/Juggs is nothing more than distraction from the real issues pertaining to Sins/Sorcs, any talk of balance has to start there, end of story

 

lol,

 

Sins have to engage in melee to perform any of their "burst," they can't begin their rotation at range, they have one hard stun (out of stealth), and they cannot pull you into their team.

 

I won't even commit on the burst, VG/PT burst is in it's own league at this point.

 

Edit: Technically you could open with CT + deathfield, but you need to be in melee range for discharge (which you should use before deathfield).

Edited January 19, 2015 by alexsamma

[Aetideus]

overall dmg is fine, but it's bursty. if you fix the ICD on SC, the sustained doesn't change, but the burst does. if you nerf EB by 25%, you're cutting into burst AND sustained. the burst is too much. most ppl agree on that, but since the overall dmg is already ~equal to plasmatech (obviously on a dummy cuz no one but a dummy would sit in all of his PFTs), you need to be very careful about cutting into their sustained.

 

so again, if you have to nerf EB -- and I'm not sold on that -- then you need to compensate in sustained else you're affecting PVE (which is mostly sustained). so I would say, ok. reduce the burst, but also reduce the cycle. this lowers the size of the burst spike but increases its frequency. you don't have to deal with the ridiculousness of 2 rails, a full EB and 7 rockets in the span of 2-3 gcd, but you do have to deal with a more frequent, smaller burst.

 

anyway, it's all premature. fix SC ICD and you can have the preloading of EB. anything else is overkill without extensive "real world" testing.

 

Probably you are right - this pve detail slips my mind often...

With increased SC ICD and split EB, AP would still be competitive without globaling.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Aetideus

[leonlotus]

Its a shame the PvE is eating the entire system. Leave a game with so much possibilities, so much fans, good in all it proposed to do in first hand, to become 1 more WOW with idiotic things that toss in thrash all its characterization. Edited January 20, 2015 by leonlotus

[Floplag]

Please show me how sins have more burst than PT's..

 

If you have to ask you are doing the class wrong.

Right now sins are the counter class to everything and have no natural enemies or fears.

Melee or range doesn't really matter under stealth so thats moot.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Floplag

[Floplag]

lol,

 

Sins have to engage in melee to perform any of their "burst," they can't begin their rotation at range, they have one hard stun (out of stealth), and they cannot pull you into their team.

 

I won't even commit on the burst, VG/PT burst is in it's own league at this point.

 

Edit: Technically you could open with CT + deathfield, but you need to be in melee range for discharge (which you should use before deathfield).

 

and how hard is it to get in melee range under stealth? moot point

[foxmob]

you guys are arguing over what's worse: poop on rye or poop on wheat. it's still a poop sandwich. AP and hatred are both obscenely OP in certain areas. they both need to be adjusted. and they both should be adjusted asap.

 

fyi: depending on your spec, sins are pretty easy to get separation from in a 1v1 encounter...as a ranged class. cuz they're highly susceptible to roots and punts. the 12s stun thing gives them free reign to wreck melee.

 

e. g., when I played my pt/vg, carbonize was a essential survival and peel tool for me. it's how I would keep my sniper/merc teammate alive through initial burst phase. and the only counter was for a sin to burn his most effective cd (shroud). now...that aoe stun (or the war's aoe mezz and the sniper aoe mezz) can be neutralized w/o having to put shroud on cd. and 12s is a lifetime of uptime for someone to not be stunned/mezz'd in this game.

 

:2cents:

Edited January 20, 2015 by foxmob

[Cretinus]

To ask for PvP balance by skilled arena players is like stating that great eaters are great cooks; or that movie lovers are great actors; or that great drivers are great engineers; or that frequent fliers are great pilots.

[Haystak]

To ask for PvP balance by skilled arena players is like stating that great eaters are great cooks; or that movie lovers are great actors; or that great drivers are great engineers; or that frequent fliers are great pilots.

 

I dont think he literally expects them to write the code for this. I could be wrong though.

[revcrisis]

This whole idea of a 99% reduction to incoming damage needs to go. It's 1.0 SWTOR mentality. An easy fix for UR is as follows:

 

Undying Rage

• Ability: Increases damage reduction by 30%. Can only be activated AT OR UNDER 35% HP.
  
• Lasts: 5 Seconds
  
• Cooldown: 2 Minutes 30 Seconds
  
• Optional Utility: You can activate it while stunned. Roll this into another existing utility perhaps.
  

 

The end. You get your RP lore going with the only activated at or under 35% HP - UNDYING RAWR RAGE. You get the PVP heal balance by being only 30% DR. Enemies can still kill you through it. Enemies can still stun you through it. But you won't die if you have a competent healer with you. It's what we call a balanced DEFENSIVE COOL DOWN.

Edited January 20, 2015 by revcrisis

[Zoom_VI]

This whole idea of a 99% reduction to incoming damage needs to go. It's 1.0 SWTOR mentality. An easy fix for UR is as follows:

 

Undying Rage

• Ability: Increases damage reduction by 30%. Can only be activated AT OR UNDER 35% HP.
  
• Lasts: 5 Seconds
  
• Cooldown: 2 Minutes 30 Seconds
  
• Optional Utility: You can activate it while stunned. Roll this into another existing utility perhaps.
  

 

The end. You get your RP lore going with the only activated at or under 35% HP - UNDYING RAWR RAGE. You get the PVP heal balance by being only 30% DR. JEEEEZ DEVS.

 

5 seconds of only 30% DR is rather weak.

[revcrisis]

5 seconds of only 30% DR is rather weak.

 

Maybe you can make it 6-7 seconds with a utility point. There's a current marauder utility point which increases the duration anyways. Honestly, it's in line with DCDs for other classes, think Pyrotech/Vanguard's Kolto Overload/Adrenaline Rush in 2.10. It's hard to kill them through it but sometimes you can pull it off. Remember this is additive 30% DR, not multiplicative.

[funkiestj]

Shroud doesnt do anything against white damage. Unyding works against all damage.

 

It's not even in the same league.

.

 

Yeah, Vigilance guardian (FOTM) laughs when it sees shroud as all of a vigilance guardian's heavy hitters are white damage that bypass shroud.