hallucigenocide Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Just added to the bottom of the original post: Ideas towards fixing the Overtuned classes (Powertech and Hatred Assassins) bit overkill what you suggested to sins.. it would pretty much kill hatred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insomniaq- Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 bit overkill what you suggested to sins.. it would pretty much kill hatred. agreed, changed it to what I feel is the best fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallucigenocide Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) agreed, changed it to what I feel is the best fix. that's more like it and it does nothing to PvE so it's a win win i'd probably add a cd to the st cleanse though. so it's not spammable Edited January 16, 2015 by hallucigenocide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Eh, I wouldn't want to give mercs more burst. Have you seen Arsenal burst now? It's absolutely crazy, it's just that mercs lack survivability. (Priming shot-tracer-blazing-heatseeker-rail is incredibly burst in a very short amount of time - from 30 meters) And Ambush>FT>Penetrating>FT even better and its from 35m and the autocrat is more controllable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 A mass cleanse is a bit powerful, but tbh.. The biggest issue with hatred and cleanses is that the procs require discharge. If discharge would have some sort of cleanse protection/shielding or whatnot.. A mass cleanse wouldn't be too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 If PT burst is cut down, then at the very least change up the burst mechanics so we are not longer so insanely predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insomniaq- Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 A mass cleanse is a bit powerful, but tbh.. The biggest issue with hatred and cleanses is that the procs require discharge. If discharge would have some sort of cleanse protection/shielding or whatnot.. A mass cleanse wouldn't be too bad. you can apply dots every 15, but healers can remove every 30, seems fair. but if you need to reapply, just use the global to reapply. healers should be able to have some counter play to dots in PvP assassins already have a dot cleanse for themselves on shroud every minute, and 2 minutes on force cloak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xooey Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Hatred assassins need a nerf. If PTs go down Sorcs need to go with them. Sorcs are already absurd and they will go wild if there is no one that can kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow-Canadian Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Great original post! Pretty much covered it but didn't mention how over the top sorc healing is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surbatu Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Kolto Overload Instant Activating this ability applies a Health Monitor that lasts up to 60 seconds, which triggers a Kolto Overload when your health is reduced to 35% or less. If your health is already 35% or less, Kolto Overload triggers immediately. Once triggered, Kolto Overload goes on cooldown for 3 minutes, cleanses you of all negative effects and instantly heals up to 85% of your max health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunner_Venda Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Kolto Overload Instant Activating this ability applies a Health Monitor that lasts up to 60 seconds, which triggers a Kolto Overload when your health is reduced to 35% or less. If your health is already 35% or less, Kolto Overload triggers immediately. Once triggered, Kolto Overload goes on cooldown for 3 minutes, cleanses you of all negative effects and instantly heals up to 85% of your max health. I wish, but then that would add another ED to the game wouldn't it? Pyro needs the seven missiles more than AP. Don't nerf it into the ground, hand it to the one PT spec that actually needs reliable burst (pyro), and actually had it before. Then people might actually want to play the spec. Instead of 'prototype loaders' call it 'flame rockets', and make the extra 15% damage elemental or something. Then give AP something else in return. Try Rail shot crit or something useful. Last question: why does rail shot work on targets that aren't bleeding or vulnerable (thermal Det, explosive dart). Seems if we add that back, it balances AP nicely without wrecking the damage capability of the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekrall Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) I wish, but then that would add another ED to the game wouldn't it? Pyro needs the seven missiles more than AP. Don't nerf it into the ground, hand it to the one PT spec that actually needs reliable burst (pyro), and actually had it before. Then people might actually want to play the spec. Instead of 'prototype loaders' call it 'flame rockets', and make the extra 15% damage elemental or something. Then give AP something else in return. Try Rail shot crit or something useful. Last question: why does rail shot work on targets that aren't bleeding or vulnerable (thermal Det, explosive dart). Seems if we add that back, it balances AP nicely without wrecking the damage capability of the class. 7 missiles masterful utility. 1.5 sec cooldown on each missile, off the gcd of course. You're welcome. Also, great post Insomniaq. I should start handing out mumble info to devs. Edited January 16, 2015 by Nekrall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunner_Venda Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 7 missiles masterful utility. 1.5 sec cooldown on each missile, off the gcd of course. You're welcome. Also, great post Insomniaq. I should start handing out mumble info to devs. Now that this is settled, how about we agree to nerf sins and sorcs first? i don't think I've seen assassins nerfed once since 2.0. We've seen dev's cut the balls off concealment and leave their own favorite class alone. Without some serious toning down of those classes - Everyone can go **** themselves on PT nerFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surbatu Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I wish, but then that would add another ED to the game wouldn't it? What is ED? Anyway, pt will be nerfed (they always nerf it pretty fast, sorcs and sins? - doubt that), and with no deadly burst it will be like opers but with no stealth. And mercs... All BHs need an actually working defensive cooldown, kolto doesnt work and needs fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnashear Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 you can apply dots every 15, but healers can remove every 30, seems fair. but if you need to reapply, just use the global to reapply. healers should be able to have some counter play to dots in PvP I think the counter to a dot is a hot. A mass cleanse isn't a counter it is > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 you can apply dots every 15, but healers can remove every 30, seems fair. but if you need to reapply, just use the global to reapply. healers should be able to have some counter play to dots in PvP assassins already have a dot cleanse for themselves on shroud every minute, and 2 minutes on force cloak. If they remove ALL of them at once? Nah that's rather severe. Time it right and you can reduce the incoming dot damage by half of just cleansing. Creeping terror can have that, don't even care. Discharge needs to be a bit harder to purge than a mass cleanse on a 30sec cooldown however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) If PT burst is cut down, then at the very least change up the burst mechanics so we are not longer so insanely predictable. HIB proc is very regular. I would say reduce EB's dmg (maybe 20%) but reduce the number of HIBs required to charge it? so the burst is curbed but the sustained is at least maintained, if not a little bit increased. of course, none of that means anything if tactics doesn't live longer, and the first things that need to happen is the SC ICD + a dcd buff that at least compensates for the unintentional nerf to survival that a longer ICD would bring. honestly, that's the only change I would make for starters (as far as tactics is concerned -- I like the idea of giving plasmatech the buffed SC, cuz they're a bit of a mess in pvp, imo). Edited January 16, 2015 by foxmob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 What is ED? did you recently resub? heh. it's a jugg heal to full. for 10 secs, they gain a significant amount of hp for every dmg they receive (dot, aoe, or direct). with one, two, or sometimes three ppl hitting them, it's a h2f. if you search the forum, you'll see proponents of the ability say it's something you can burst through, but I've never seen that. using it on smash spec, I've never had it burst through, but as soon as it h2f, you can be burst down quickly (again, 2-4 ppl focusing lol ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johanlofdahl Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I would love some class balance being adressed no matter how they do it, or any information regarding their view on class balance in PvP at all. Personly I recon it's not really the lack of dialogue between the developers and the customers but information regarding this is non-existant. If everybody knew balance would be as it is today during S4, they could than judge "hmm this class looks good I'm gonna roll that one" but for now we have no idea if changes are coming, when they are coming and what kind of changes - drastic? minor but more often? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I really don't see why Cell Burst needs its damage nerfed. Heatseekers and Ambush both hit harder with greater consistency. The only issue with our burst is the borked ICD. If you must bring the damage down on anything, take it from Assault Plastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I really don't see why Cell Burst needs its damage nerfed. Heatseekers and Ambush both hit harder with greater consistency. The only issue with our burst is the borked ICD. If you must bring the damage down on anything, take it from Assault Plastic as quick to burst as tactics is, it's kind of funny how long it is until maximum burst. you need 4m range to apply two debuffs, and you have to wait on AP for a third debuff. anyway, I think it's fair to say that the only thing that should be addressed in the first go is the aforementioned ICD and make the class tankier to compensate. snipers...man. I just don't see many of them. and I mostly do soloQ, so maybe it's different in grp, but...they're all meat in yolo arenas. and this is me playing a merc/mando dps saying this. snipers need a hell of a lot of support. if I were them, I'd trade some of that burst for more survivability as well. let me put it like this, I've never lost a match because the other team's sniper carried them. I've lost matches against snipers who were on better teams (such as juggs, sins and sorcs who can prevent my team from just killing the sniper), but no matter how skilled the sniper, I haven't come across one who can carry...anyone really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Eh, I wouldn't want to give mercs more burst. Have you seen Arsenal burst now? It's absolutely crazy, it's just that mercs lack survivability. (Priming shot-tracer-blazing-heatseeker-rail is incredibly burst in a very short amount of time - from 30 meters) As a merc yes, i know it, and no i dont really think we need it but if they are putting us in the glass cannon slot, which is to say big hits with little survivability, then we should hit harder than the rest... simply put this is not the case. We are up there, but we are not the hardest burst. Personally i dont want more burst, i want some survivability help which would allow me to do more damage by staying alive longer... but again, it should be one or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 i see a lot of reference to "top players".... as defined by what i wonder? right now the top ranked players are thus largely because of the classes they play as much as their ability to play them... that doesn't make a person a "top player". There are a lot of very good players that play classes that just arent welcome in ranked right now... does that somehow make them lesser players simply because they play an AC that is grossly undervalued in ranks? To do this right you need feedback from all ACs.. not just those at the top of the ladders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnashear Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 did you recently resub? heh. it's a jugg heal to full. for 10 secs, they gain a significant amount of hp for every dmg they receive (dot, aoe, or direct). with one, two, or sometimes three ppl hitting them, it's a h2f. if you search the forum, you'll see proponents of the ability say it's something you can burst through, but I've never seen that. using it on smash spec, I've never had it burst through, but as soon as it h2f, you can be burst down quickly (again, 2-4 ppl focusing lol ) I've seen jugs killed thru ed, and reflect and medpac on a hard switch. All Melle dps. Also killed sins thru resilience deflection vanish and medpac. I don't think anybody needs nerfs. Some classes need survivability. I like long matches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizori Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) First topic name is silly that to begin with. Balance is Balance around person who plays on good level. Very good player can make even bad spec look good and other way around. I agree about classes that are overpowered now.. basically with so much buff to offense it is more like PVE game not PVP. That makes few spec who are not bursty pretty much useless. You did missed a point about balance when you have group and solo ranked. You cannot balance both. Example: Same sniper playing on solo q is pretty weak because with his burst but low survivability without support of team he is dead pretty soon. On other hand in group put him with tank and powertech and you have probably second best comp in game. Point is balance is not bad just developers don't know what they are doing. Make one arena ranked let people sign in 1-4 teams your choice. Leave Solo for unranked. Bring back Ranked WZ. Changes to classes: Classes which are in good spot or need other classes to be balance to tell: Jugg/Guardian Sorc/ Sage Sniper: buff to dot spec Op/ scoundrels : buff to dot spec Nerf bat: Powertech/Vanguard too much burst lower it , give one spec at least normal survivability with toned down dps. Assasins/Shadow : too much immunity to cc and slows too strong heals for such class. Tone down one of them (first the best) Buff: Marauders: a little boost there they still do very good dmg. Merc/ Comando: haha they need buff to their survivability. Their healing is pathetic for class who has healing tree. There is not enough people playing PVP to have 2 types of Ranked arena simple as that. Edited January 16, 2015 by Raizori Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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