Word of warning

[FAAmecanic]

1. This affects you in only 2 possible ways: the occasional "victim" of 12x that doesn't know how to play their class, or forcing you to do non-class quests if you wanted to avoid the XP bonus while leveling. The first problem will go away either because those people will learn to play their class, or because they stop doing HM/NIM content because they suck at it. The second problem is only relevant if they ever bring 12x back, and it's safe to assume they'll implement a toggle for it given the feedback on the forums and them saying that was their intention to begin with. So this amounts to you whining about other people playing the game differently than you.
   
2. Don't want it? Don't use it. It's not PC gear, it's companion gear. You can still gear your companions the old-fashioned way if you so desire. It does not affect your experience of the game. Oh, you once had to work hard for these things? People once had to go outside and pump water out of a well, does that mean we shouldn't have running tap water in our homes? So this amounts to you whining about other people playing the game differently than you.
   
3. You have more money to spend on more substanial things. How is that bad for anyone?
   
4. Did they go back and "derp" all the old datacrons? No, they just added a new one that takes a different kind of challenge to obtain. You don't have to do it if you don't want to, just like other players don't have to get the "platformer datacrons" if they don't want to. So this amounts to you whining about other people playing the game differently than you.
   
5. You're gonna have to elaborate on that, because that's not a gripe, that's a single word with no context.
   
6. I avoid PVP like the plague, so no comment on that...
   
7. If you're talking about making storymode ops relevant for people other than the most hardcore, as they should be, then this is another pointless comment. In general, I don't see them "pandering" to anyone, and I don't see them nerfing HM and NIM content too much. You can still play your game the way you enjoy it, but now others can as well. So this amounts to you whining about other people playing the game differently than you.
   

 

By all means, voice your opinions. But for the love of god, spare us the infantile whining about the game catering to people other than yourself while not hampering the way you play the game in any way whatsoever. There are other people in the world, learn to respect them.

 

^^^This^^^^^ Well said my friend. Couldn't have said it better myself

[Spamfritter]

The more you pander to the desires of the lesser players the more dedicated players will slip through your fingers....

 

My list of gripes

-12x xp

-free 192 companion gear

-Free skills training

-Derping datacron hunting to make it time based best camper wins (jumping was fun)

-Bolster

-Pvp match making -faster ques < enjoyable match

-The pandering to the forum requests to make the game easy mode.

 

Edit: while i don't mind adding more casual content for casual players the game should not be changed fir the sole purpose of accomindating the ones complaining. It seems like the sqeaky wheel gets the oil.

 

I'm primarily a raider so take this for what it's worth. In some sense I actually dislike MMOs but I like raiding and PvP. (Weird I know.)

 

-12x XP is AWESOME. I hate grinding out new characters. This actually made leveling fun because I could experience the story with out the awful grind. Many of those characters I may never seriously play again but at least I got to try those without the awful commitment of time.

 

-Free 192 Companion gear. Honestly, this is also great for alts. The droid parts were pretty much a necessity given that BioWare has purposely made gearing droid companions a *********** nightmare. This was long overdue. There is still a fair grind to get this stuff. I usually hit level 60 by the end of Rishi so I don't have a lot of 60's that can just go get this gear.

-Free skills training went well with 12x XP. This one I could take or leave but it doesn't bother me that this is now free.

 

-Derping datacron hunting: I'm not sure on this one. I haven't gone for the new datacrons so I can't speak to this.

 

-Bolster: This one I completely agree with. Makeb has been put into total mouth breather mode. All I wanted was reductions in mob density so I didn't have to kill 1,000 creatures just to navigate the damn place. Kolto probes and bolster are ridiculous.

 

-PvP Queues: For regs I think its fine. The ranked scene is another matter. There is nothing like getting queued with someone who has no PvP gear that's only doing it for conquest points or getting queued with someone who's rating is in the toilet who AFK's for the whole damn match.

 

-The pandering to the forum requests to make the game easy mode: I agree with this one to some degree as well. I think there should be plenty of casual content while still providing hardcore content for those who desire it. I think both camps can be served here but the constant dumbing down of the game to make some players happy has got to stop. PvP is a great example of this. Nerf "X class" because I am a ****** player and can't counter them" is one big problem. I also hate how PvP balance carries over into the PvE game and screws **** up.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Spamfritter

[ibervang]

Some of us have a life besides of the game. And before you ask if i spend money on it. I bought the CE package, which where i live, was about 11-12 mouths of subscribtion. I have subscribed since release and have bought cartel coins a couple of times. I have spend my share of money on this game

[wolfyde]

It always makes me chuckle when "being dumbed down" is thrown around like a buzzword, as it has been happening all over mmo-land the last couple of years.

It seems to, by definition, imply that there was something very intelligent, smart, clever,... about playing MMO's in the first place.

Newsflash: there really isn't. Those so-called 'hardcore elitists' need to get off their delusional selfadmiring pedestals.

A grind does not make a game more intelligent or interesting, it just makes it longer.

More clicks in a talent tree does not mean you have more real choice than with a discipline path.

More time spent does not equal greater difficulty or more challenging content.

 

What mmo companies have been doing is streamlining experiences and removing clutter, focusing on the demographic that is the most profitable for them, a.i. the people who work and have more disposable income than time to spend on a game. Those are the ones that splash most cash on microtransactions, often combined with a sub fee.

You can be as hardcore as you want and live in the game 24hrs a day; in the end your sub will be worth exactly the same as of someone who logs in a couple of hours a week, with the difference that they can spend a lot more in the CM.

So of course a company will aim to provide the most comfortable experience for those "casuals" who carry most of the potential revenue.

 

I loved the immense sandbox-y possibilities of Star Wars Galaxies in the day, I spent massive amounts of time on leveling skilltrees, decorating my houses and businesses, traveling the lands prospecting for extractor spots, collecting and/or producing all the highest quality ingredients so I could provide some of the best buffs of the server, etc.

 

And whilst that game and those memories (and others of games in the same period) will always be dear, I also have to say that, realistically, that same game and those kind of mechanics no longer appeal to me, because I simply no longer have that kind of time to spend.

 

So yes, when I sit down now and play a little, I'm rather welcoming of the 'dumbed down' (the phrase itself being the only thing that's really dumb) content that provides me with fun things to do in a short timeframe without having to wait an hour to get a group to even get near content (anyone remember DAoC and getting to Gjalp? )

 

Sorry, longer than I intended, /rant off

Edited January 15, 2015 by wolfyde

[Mornyr]

A grind does not make a game more intelligent or interesting, it just makes it longer.

More clicks in a talent tree does not mean you have more real choice than with a discipline path.

More time spent does not equal greater difficulty or more challenging content.

 

What mmo companies have been doing is streamlining experiences and removing clutter

 

QFT.

 

Streamlining and dumbing down are not the same thing. Most of what people call dumbing down is just streamlining. And I really don't understand why having to spend months on a freakin' video game to make any substantial progress is somehow a good thing. Even without considering the fact that real life is a thing that requires time and money, there are so many other games out there to play, I don't want any of them to be a black hole that sucks all my free time away.

[mikebevo]

The more you pander to the desires of the lesser players the more dedicated players will slip through your fingers....

Personally I want more people playing the game. Attracting these “so-called” lesser players” is what keeps the game going and some of them actually learn how to play the game and can become valuable members of group content.

 

-12x xp

It is gone why care now? It allowed many in my guild to level alts so that now we have a abundance of competent backups for raids.

--free 192 companion gear

Really don’t understand this, who cares what someone companion is wearing? And why?

--Free skills training

Again can’t see a reason to gripe about this. It was such a minor credit sink, who really cares?

---Derping datacron hunting to make it time based best camper wins (jumping was fun)

Hated jumping, but did it. However, don’t care either way.

----Bolster

Really don’t care again. Now if you are talking about PVP matches, then I will agree. However in SM group content then I really don’t care.

-----The pandering to the forum requests to make the game easy mode.

I have to remind myself some of the content isn’t as easy as I think it is. As this is one of my gripes too. However, I now believe some of my annoyance is unfounded. Reason I find something extremely easy is that I have been here since early access. I understand how to gear, game mechanics and strategies. I have 20 other characters that can craft or buy my leveling alt gear. It isn’t so much that the game is easy; it is we are usually over geared, overleveled and we know the instance.

 

I still remember helping knight get through their class story at launch. I believe I did it like 10 times before I ever brought my own knight into the instance. I really thought the fight was easy, but then again I knew the fight, was level 50 and knew how to gear and was able to gear with the help of my other toons crafting and credits.

 

If it is too easy for you, remove gear. I never change gear leveling until I start dying or decide to que for a FP. I am not going into group content level 30 in level 20 gear, but I will play that way solo.

[chosonman]

Edit: slot machines - no longer have to level your crew skills. Insta crafting. No cew skills needed

 

The cartel market is now the defacto king of crafting. Need armor weapons dye mounts or color crystals? Who needs crafting skills?

[OddballEasyEight]

Edit: slot machines - no longer have to level your crew skills. Insta crafting. No cew skills needed

 

The cartel market is now the defacto king of crafting. Need armor weapons dye mounts or color crystals? Who needs crafting skills?

 

Crafting is not a crew skill?

It's not like armour and weapons and mods drop from the slot machine.

[chosonman]

Crafting is not a crew skill?

It's not like armour and weapons and mods drop from the slot machine.

 

No armor and weapons drop from the cartel market mods are earned from comms.

[Ksilvante]

Yeah, IF you have the real world cash to throw away on CCs that is. Sadly not everyone has tons of excess cash lying about...

[TUXs]

The more you pander to the desires of the lesser players the more dedicated players will slip through your fingers....

Lesser huh?! You're playing the same game I am...stop taking it so seriously. It's entertainment for geeks like us, not something you're supposed to be "dedicated" to. You dedicate yourself to school, exercise, family, children, significant other, work, God, community...not a freaking video game.

[chosonman]

Imo crafting is a side show and runs counter to ea's goal of making the game simple for casuals and generating a profit so killing crafting mini game (or at least diluting it to purely crafing augments and kits) isnt out of the realm of possibilities.

 

You can already see that the major crafting items such as armor, weapons, color crystals, mounts, and dyes are all "produced" by CM pack buyers. What were seeing with the slot machine is just an evolution of the direction EA is going with respect to crafting.

 

Its always been maintained that EA wants a larger causual gamer base. And what better way to increase their revenue by making everything available via the cartel market. Because as we know crafters are killing the bottom line.

 

Casuals can now play the crafting game too. They no longer have to level their comps, and log in every 30 minutes to check in on their missions. They can just roll dice for 30 minutes and be done for the day. The catch is you need to spend real money getting the magic crafting machine.

[Mornyr]

Imo crafting is a side show and runs counter to ea's goal of making the game simple for casuals and generating a profit so killing crafting mini game (or at least diluting it to purely crafing augments and kits) isnt out of the realm of possibilities.

 

You can already see that the major crafting items such as armor, weapons, color crystals, mounts, and dyes are all "produced" by CM pack buyers. What were seeing with the slot machine is just an evolution of the direction EA is going with respect to crafting.

 

Its always been maintained that EA wants a larger causual gamer base. And what better way to increase their revenue by making everything available via the cartel market. Because as we know crafters are killing the bottom line.

 

Casuals can now play the crafting game too. They no longer have to level their comps, and log in every 30 minutes to check in on their missions. They can just roll dice for 30 minutes and be done for the day. The catch is you need to spend real money getting the magic crafting machine.

 

I really hope you're trolling, because that was just... No.

[Arkerus]

What is a lesser player?

[chosonman]

I really hope you're trolling, because that was just... No.

 

What is a no? Thats the slot machine now opens the way for cadual crafters? That the CM doesnt sell the only armor, weapons, color crystals, mounts, and dyes worth spending loads of credits on? You are a no. And troll.

[Jeweledleah]

What is a no? Thats the slot machine now opens the way for cadual crafters? That the CM doesnt sell the only armor, weapons, color crystals, mounts, and dyes worth spending loads of credits on? You are a no. And troll.

 

pot, meet kettle.

 

1. they just added a bunch of new dyes to artifice. and couple of new crystals. some of those dyes are seriously fantastic looking

2. there are still armor sets with interesting looks

3. people still level alts and as such - they still buy implants, earpieces, mods, barrels, etc - not just augment kits

4. at end game - people still buy above. or craft it for themselves.

5. I didn't realize that slot machine was so magical that I could actualy make it CRAFT things., and ther I thought it just gave me a chance to get more mats that I could then use in my leveled up crafting >_>

6. companion gear. COMPANION. gear, that you cannot edit for looks. gear that is effectively rendered useless for someone like me who likes companions to have specific appearance as much as I like it for my own character. and no, I'm not a special snowflake, there are PLENTY of people like me. all those boxes do is allow you to experiment with companions you might not otherwise be using becasue gearing 5 companions per character can be a drag.

 

and what do you have against casual crafters exactly? btw, given the cost of getting that slot machine in a first place? not to mention it would have mattered WITHOUT jawa vendors actualy selling useful mats? its not like jawa junk didn't exist before slot machine. conquest rewards, cartel packs - it was in it. its just finaly "gasp" actualy useful for current content.

 

oh noes.

[XiamaraSimi]

2. there are still armor sets with interesting looks

.

 

Indeed. My armormech generally makes 300-500k a month alone making and selling the Outcast Armor Set.

 

On a slow month.

Edited January 16, 2015 by XiamaraSimi

[Mornyr]

There is only one plausible conclusion. OP knows jack **** about crafting in SWTOR.

[chosonman]

Indeed. My armormech generally makes 300-500k a month alone making and selling the Outcast Armor Set.

 

On a slow month.

 

500k a month? You call that profit? I make that in an hour just selling augments and kits and have made well over 100 millin credits. But if i wasted my time hoping some sap would by that crappy armor they hand out from the crew skills vendor yea id probably be looking at maybe 500k per month.

 

As for the idiot comment about not knowing jack **** about crafting. Ill show you my bamk account if you show me yours.

I promise you all 100mil was earned the hard way and mot 1 credit from the cartel market. So go blow it out your ear.

[chosonman]

I think the game went off the rails with 12xexp

The game seemed much healthier over the summer but these heavy handed moves have, seemingly, gutted the leveling economy, gutted leveling group finders, and gutted the barriers keeping players from getting in too deep (ie- having a max level toon with no real knowledge how to gear or provide for itself)

 

The endgame is now the new beginning- level 60 is the new level one- maybe this is some radical new game style where there are no more levels and Bio is really pushing the envelope but I don't think so

 

It really seems as though this slot machine is a passive/aggressive way of dealing with the ops exploit- "some people exploited the game to get access too the stash so let's just flood the market with grade 11 purples- that will fix things"

 

I really only logged into the game to sell items, run crew missions, and pvp

I also know that my playstyle is not "mainstream" but I did pay a monthly sub and with all these recent changes I'm kinda losing steam here

The best thing I liked about 3.0 was solo fp's- in a MMO ffs- serenity now

 

Long story short- crew skills/economy is really the only thing that I end up enjoying in a mmo but I'm afraid swtor has officially jumped the shark in 3.0

 

Im in complete agreememt. The game seemed much healthier prior to 12x. Ive said it before and I'll say it again. 12x was a huge mistake. It gutted the steam of leveling players that creatrd a gap between new players and 12x ers. Group finder is dead so is low level FPs and they even managed to kill lowbie pvp somehow. The constant pandering to pay 2 winners is causing an irreparable slide in the quality of the game and has caused me to consider quitting for good once my sub is up.

[OddballEasyEight]

500k a month? You call that profit? I make that in an hour just selling augments and kits and have made well over 100 millin credits. But if i wasted my time hoping some sap would by that crappy armor they hand out from the crew skills vendor yea id probably be looking at maybe 500k per month.

 

As for the idiot comment about not knowing jack **** about crafting. Ill show you my bamk account if you show me yours.

I promise you all 100mil was earned the hard way and mot 1 credit from the cartel market. So go blow it out your ear.

 

Again about the money eh?

 

First it was those who gave most money to BW who were the "true" gamers, and then that tune changed when you found out that casual gamers spend quite alot.

Now it's suddenly only "real" crafting if you're making millions each month?

Ever figured that some people aren't in the game for the money? Ever thougt that people can be considered "real crafters" even though they're not making millions in a month?

Did it ever occur to you that this one thing he's selling for around 500k each month isn't the only thing he's selling?

[wolfyde]

I promise you all 100mil was earned the hard way and mot 1 credit from the cartel market.

Can we assume from this that you do not buy anything from the CM, except maybe with the coingrant you monthly get from your subscription?

 

If so then;

12x was a huge mistake. It gutted the steam of leveling players that creatrd a gap between new players and 12x ers. Group finder is dead so is low level FPs and they even managed to kill lowbie pvp somehow. The constant pandering to pay 2 winners is causing an irreparable slide in the quality of the game and has caused me to consider quitting for good once my sub is up.

 

I counter with 12XP being one of the best moves they ever made.

Personal example: I gave up on the game at the beginning of 2013, because I found the mechanics stale and uninteresting.

After all, imho, remove the storylines and the Star Wars license, and you're left with what is at it's core a very average hotkey mmo, running on a tired 15yo blueprint.

I came back, however, for 12XP, and Strongholds whilst I was as it. It finally let me see the storycontent (the game's primary strongpoint for me) without having to suffer the boring gamemechanics and levelgrind.

I'm still here now, enjoying the expansion and slowly leveling the characters I made during 12XP, decorating my SH's. I have also since coming back spent several hundred euros in the CM, on top of my subscription fee.

 

Now let's say you represent one demographic, the 'hardcore swtor gamer', who spends lots of time in the game, but who pays only a sub fee and nothing else, and I represent the 'casual gamer', who has more disposable income than time, who pays a sub fee and on top of that hundreds of euros/dollars on the CM.

 

Since you seem to value profit so highly; who of either demographic do you think Bioware as a company will be most inclined to cater to? And should cater to from a business perspective.

 

(and on a sidenote, pay2win does not apply to this game, since you can not spend real money to gain an edge in the competitive environments of the game)

Edited January 17, 2015 by wolfyde

[_NovaBlast_]

Wow, you are everything that is wrong with MMO design.

I'd be happy if "dedicated players" not only slipped through their fingers, but actually formed a lemming trail and had a massive exidus.

 

Of course, it wouldn't be all that massive since the "dedicated players" couldn't sustain this game in the first place.

 

'Lesser Players'

 

Pretentious much?

 

Agreed

Edited January 17, 2015 by _NovaBlast_

[Mornyr]

Okay, now I'm really confused. You know that profits (mostly) come from crafting augs/mods/hilts/barrels/etc. and not armor/weapons/mounts but say that because the cartel market gives the best armor/weapons/mounts it rendered crafting pointless?