Ravagers Exploit Action Update

[ron_harmeling]

How did Bioware not completely shut down the instance, even after they made their post, if it was such a big deal and if people are going to be banned over this, why is there no accountability on there part for not doing there due diligence?

 

So true. "Hey, come steal my stuff, I will judge your offense next week". While doing absolutely NOTHING to prevent it from happening

Edited January 15, 2015 by ron_harmeling

[Lucpol]

they released a crap expansion that players are still seeing repercussions from in terms of lag and ability delay, and a bug in this op was apparently one more thing they made a mistake with. One more thing in their long, sad history of incompetence that goes all the way back to the game's development.

 

The correct course of action, would have been to realize this and quietly prevent the exploit from happening in the future and doing absolutely nothing to those who used it.

 

any moral high ground or professionalism they had went out the window a long, long time ago. What little is left is diminished every time they break something else, or miss an earlier statement promising content, or go another inexcusably long period with no updates at all. BioWare's handling of SWTOR has been pathetic. If they choose to actually target and punish the continually diminishing player base for finding a mistake they themselves should have caught that would be the final straw for me and I imagine a substantial number of other players as well.

 

No, i never used this exploit. But I have absolutely nothing against those who did, and to be honest I would even commend them for doing so.

 

instead of seeing this as something abhorrent that needs to be punished and dealt with, they should see it as a signal that they need to do a better job. A better job with the content they do release, a better job testing to make sure exploits (but far more importantly, bugs) do not exist, and of course a better job communicating with the player base. Threatening the players keeping this game alive despite the lack of content is a terribly stupid and unprofessional idea

 

Don't get me wrong mate, but based on your inherent tone and opinions above, you should be looking for a diff. mmo imo. You seem unhappy with this game. So why stay in that case?

[ron_harmeling]

Are you for or against them at least being able to remove everything that was illegally gained from anyone who gained it? Including any shells they may have put mods etc. into as a small form of punishment to those that took extra amounts of say 198 mods/enhancements? I.e. you lose the shell you got from CM because you put illegal gear in it - moral of the story don't continuously e xploit something you know is a bug.

 

They can't do that if you use Cartel Market gear, as you paid (well, someone did) real money for it.

Hence, revoking that shell would be a real act of theft.

 

Nah, whether they make a Cheater title or something, or they have to let it rest.

[DrewFromPhilly]

At the end of the day, when they make a mistake there is absolutely nothing wrong with the players calling them out on it. Whether that is here on the forums, or in game by using the exploits BW allowed to exist in the first place, is irrelevant.

 

Instead of accepting this, they chose to put up a vague and unprofessional post by Eric Musco which undoubtedly just made players curious about what he was talking about, and probably spread the knowledge and use of this even further. But now, as a developer, for them to be threatening the players who did this it is absolutely ridiculous and childish.

 

They need to get off the high horse, accept they should have tested their release more, and move on.

Edited January 15, 2015 by DrewFromPhilly

[dawg_bone]

Such hard core righteousness in this thread from players..

 

Does using the exploit impact anyone else's enjoyment of the game? No.

 

If that's the case, why are you so stuck up about the whole situation?

 

Should people be using exploits? Definitely not PVP ones and probably not PVE ones. That being said, there is only so much some people can take, especially when they shell out real money for things that don't work as intended.

 

If someone felt this was justified because they spent millions of creds on skills for their toons because they just happened to have early access (only to see them remove the pricing for skills the following week), or because they missed out on loot because of bugs, then why do you care so much? It's not hurting you at all.

 

Awesome, you didn't do the exploit. Congrats. Now get off your high horse and do something constructive.

[AdeiphoVH]

Instead of bickering endlessly among ourselves till "RaiderGate" is officially judged and punished, why can't BioWare comment on anything that has been said here? They have been mum since there last post, it has been said before, I will say it again, we as players, Pitchforkers and Cheaters alike need to hold the company that allowed this bug not only to slip through PTS testing but to stay live on there servers for over a month and a half. What say you Musco. #CallBioWareOut

[ivanhedgehog]

Tell that to all the people that looted 198s constantly, and all the high end materials used to make the mods/relics to be able to sell on the Gtn to ruin the economy

 

constantly? you mean the 1 week lockout? very far from unlimited

[Neoforcer]

Instead of bickering endlessly among ourselves till "RaiderGate" is officially judged and punished, why can't BioWare comment on anything that has been said here? They have been mum since there last post, it has been said before, I will say it again, we as players, Pitchforkers and Cheaters alike need to hold the company that allowed this bug not only to slip through PTS testing but to stay live on there servers for over a month and a half. What say you Musco. #CallBioWareOut

 

Why have they gone silent because Eric post started a fire and brimstone. Every one is at each other throats over they issue. BW messed up not once but three times once by posting there was a exploit going around 2 by saying guys we know who did it we will take action and three for not fixing it like they were told in beta. They should be punishing them selves in the first place that the problem they caused the nightmare we have now

Edited January 15, 2015 by Neoforcer

[iBeyond]

My only question is do i buy cartel coins to enjoy the new packs or what.. last month i spent 500 hundred on this game alone, Dont hate i got it like that.. and im pretty sure BW needs players like me, so is my account getting banned or not.. Simple question!!!!

[Elracor]

Does using the exploit impact anyone else's enjoyment of the game? No.

 

Yes it does.

 

A player who gets the loot through the exploit will have an unfair advantage over non-exploiters for getting into groups. If a raidleader is to pick between 2 players for the last spot in raid, a player with 186/192 gear (who didn't exploit) and a player with 192/198 gear (who did exploit), guess which player will get the spot.

 

A character who used the exploit would not be able to do that operation until the locks reset, which means fewer people can/will do the Ravagers raid properly = harder for non-exploiters to get a group of 8-16 players to do the raids.

 

Characters who do the exploit have easy access to 192 gear, so other players who craft 186/192 gear to sell will have fewer potential customers.

Edited January 15, 2015 by MFollin

[Spamfritter]

Such hard core righteousness in this thread from players..

 

Does using the exploit impact anyone else's enjoyment of the game? No.

 

If that's the case, why are you so stuck up about the whole situation?

 

Should people be using exploits? Definitely not PVP ones and probably not PVE ones. That being said, there is only so much some people can take, especially when they shell out real money for things that don't work as intended.

 

If someone felt this was justified because they spent millions of creds on skills for their toons because they just happened to have early access (only to see them remove the pricing for skills the following week), or because they missed out on loot because of bugs, then why do you care so much? It's not hurting you at all.

 

Awesome, you didn't do the exploit. Congrats. Now get off your high horse and do something constructive.

 

No one felt sorry about using the Konami code. If you didn't use it, bravo. You've shown remarkable self-restraint. I'd personally rather call for the heads of players who keep using bolster exploits time and time again. That was more impactful to me than raiders grabbing free chest pieces. (Which for some classes was utterly worthless anyway.)

[fushnchips]

Yes it does.

 

A player who gets the loot through the exploit will have an unfair advantage over non-exploiters for getting into groups. If a raidleader is to pick between 2 players for the last spot in raid, a player with 186/192 gear (who didn't exploit) and a player with 192/198 gear (who did exploit), guess which player will get the spot.

 

A character who used the exploit would not be able to do that operation until the locks reset, which means fewer people can/will do the Ravagers raid properly = harder for non-exploiters to get a group of 8-16 players to do the raids.

 

Characters who do the exploit have easy access to 192 gear, so other players who craft 186/192 gear to sell will have fewer potential customers.

 

get in a guild and stop being Casual bob, Any raid leader and skilled player knows gear isn't what makes the team it's skill and being able to play the class to the level of what the operation requires then you will get gear from the raid if required.

[Spamfritter]

Yes it does.

 

A player who gets the loot through the exploit will have an unfair advantage over non-exploiters for getting into groups. If a raidleader is to pick between 2 players for the last spot in raid, a player with 186/192 gear (who didn't exploit) and a player with 192/198 gear (who did exploit), guess which player will get the spot.

 

A character who used the exploit would not be able to do that operation until the locks reset, which means fewer people can/will do the Ravagers raid properly = harder for non-exploiters to get a group of 8-16 players to do the raids.

 

Characters who do the exploit have easy access to 192 gear, so other players who craft 186/192 gear to sell will have fewer potential customers.

 

That reasoning doesn't track. If your talking about PUGs then maybe. For regular raid teams it doesn't matter as their rosters are usually established and raiders wouldn't waste their lockouts on their raiding character until the week was over. Even with the free gear many teams still can't advance in the content or are advancing slowly.

 

For PUGs you might have a point but even then I've never seen a PUG raid leader really ask about gear beyond making sure it was at least the minimum levels needed to do the content. Its not like they usually interview tons of candidates and choosing the best one for a 16 man story mode operation. Its more a matter of kicking people from the group who obviously aren't geared enough after the fact. Even then most PUG raid leaders tend to tolerate one or two under geared people unless someone is just grossly inadequate. (14k Marauders for SM Ravagers for example.)

Edited January 15, 2015 by Spamfritter

[MeNaCe-NZ]

They can't do that if you use Cartel Market gear, as you paid (well, someone did) real money for it.

 

True but then you paid for game time and a ban/suspension removes that from you too.

 

Also i believe someone touched on that all material within the game remains the property of BW/EA?

 

You do though raise a decent counter point noone else had when I'd raised that concept.

 

Nah, whether they make a Cheater title or something, or they have to let it rest.

 

I'd pitched that in anoher of these threads this morning also. Though regardless of what they do do I would expect at least all ill-gotten 198 gear removed just for a bit of balancing sake - even if they do keep the shells.

 

Does using the exploit impact anyone else's enjoyment of the game? No.

 

It can do and has done. Read back on the thread ( or thread(s) ) for specifics.

 

Definitely not PVP ones and probably not PVE ones.

 

Lol probably not PVE ones, bias much.

 

My only question is do i buy cartel coins to enjoy the new packs or what.. last month i spent 500 hundred on this game alone, Dont hate i got it like that.. and im pretty sure BW needs players like me, so is my account getting banned or not.. Simple question!!!!

 

How hardcore did you cheat? Whilst none of us can say for sure I would think very few will get perm banned if any except those that spread/sold it around ( though some say they won't because their guild is so chummy with some of the BW staff, we will see ). Those that did it once or twice may get nothing at all or just gear removal, those more recidivist may get a weeks holiday.

 

There is no way they will perm ban everyone, it doesn't make a lot of business sense. I think even if all they di was revoke all ill gotten gear from everyone it would be enough that noone could quit over a lack of seeming justice.

 

So look at how badly you exploited this bug and judge for yourself how you think it will go.

 

Better yet contact CS. Admit to cheating, telling them what gear you want removed etc. and ask what is the likely punishment for you as you would like to buy some CM packs etc. but obviously not if you are going to get banned. Be interested to hear what response you get.

[ACHILLESxREVENGE]

Competing MMO game says, "Yes Bioware, permaban them all!!!" 0.o

[iBeyond]

5 chest pieces/ 2 implants/ 5 purples /10 blues.. was able to bis 1 toon about 50% of the way/ bought new cartel gear sets for 3 toons re-auged them plus dyes, the entire exploit itself actually cost me about 14 mill credits and around 4k cartel coins "for unlocks and what not"... If anything this little exploit peaked my interest in lvling a new toon, which i have already spent close to 6 mill from stash plus 2k cartel coins on.. i only got to 40 but still it got me spending my real life money.. that is all a company should ever worry about... Been about 10 days now since i heard of action might be taken.. i have 37 cartel coins and the ablity and want for more. but you have got too be outside of your head if you think i will spend a dime with some vague *** ****, these threads have presented..

[Elracor]

get in a guild and stop being Casual bob, Any raid leader and skilled player knows gear isn't what makes the team it's skill and being able to play the class to the level of what the operation requires then you will get gear from the raid if required.

 

The person I quoted said the exploit wouldn't affect me. If I have to get in a guild and perhaps even into a raiding team because others can't keep their fingers off an exploit then surely I'm affected by said exploit.

 

That reasoning doesn't track. If your talking about PUGs then maybe. For regular raid teams it doesn't matter as their rosters are usually established and raiders wouldn't waste their lockouts on their raiding character until the week was over. Even with the free gear many teams still can't advance in the content or are advancing slowly.

 

For PUGs you might have a point but even then I've never seen a PUG raid leader really ask about gear beyond making sure it was at least the minimum levels needed to do the content. Its not like they usually interview tons of candidates and choosing the best one for a 16 man story mode operation. Its more a matter of kicking people from the group who obviously aren't geared enough after the fact. Even then most PUG raid leaders tend to tolerate one or two under geared people unless someone is just grossly inadequate. (14k Marauders for HM S&V for example.)

 

Even for established raiding teams you're still holding your team down compared to if you exploited. By exploiting everyone in your team could have set-piece chest armor + several 192/198 non-set pieces a lot faster than you otherwise would, so you'd be that much better geared for HM operations straight away.

 

You don't even lose locks as you were perfectly able to do the first 4 bosses normally, have most players leave group just before the last boss was defeated, and then start exploiting. Alternatively you could just exploit with alts and move armorings+mod+enhancements over with BoL gear to your raiding character.

Edited January 15, 2015 by MFollin

[dawg_bone]

Yes it does.

 

A player who gets the loot through the exploit will have an unfair advantage over non-exploiters for getting into groups. If a raidleader is to pick between 2 players for the last spot in raid, a player with 186/192 gear (who didn't exploit) and a player with 192/198 gear (who did exploit), guess which player will get the spot.

 

A character who used the exploit would not be able to do that operation until the locks reset, which means fewer people can/will do the Ravagers raid properly = harder for non-exploiters to get a group of 8-16 players to do the raids.

 

Characters who do the exploit have easy access to 192 gear, so other players who craft 186/192 gear to sell will have fewer potential customers.

 

First off, I'd like to say you bring up a good point... but to counter it:

 

Servers like BC aren't even pugging Ravagers or ToS (nor were they before this became wide spread). Not only that, but it's next to impossible to DPS queue for 60 HM FP (especially on pub side with the Trevik Tython glitch), which is really the only way to get ultimate coms.

 

The funny part about your argument (which again, brings up a good point), is that in a round about way, is it's exactly why one might choose to use the Ravagers exploit. Think about it from this perspective. You didn't do the Nefra exploit, but you knew about it. You also missed out on potential raids because someone else did do it and therefore had better gear than you (and was chosen because of it). You also know that bioware did nothing about those who used the exploit, so when this new one came out, you figured you'd have to because a lot of others would and you didn't want to be left behind.

 

Besides, if someone would rather use an exploit rather than actually beating it legit, do you want them running in your group?

[Pagy]

Question then.

 

If they don't punish anyone and ignoring how hard it may or may not be for them to do the following ( assume it's none of our business ).

 

Are you for or against them at least being able to remove everything that was illegally gained from anyone who gained it? Including any shells they may have put mods etc. into as a small form of punishment to those that took extra amounts of say 198 mods/enhancements? I.e. you lose the shell you got from CM because you put illegal gear in it - moral of the story don't continuously e xploit something you know is a bug.

 

No bans, no suspensions etc. just that ... opinion?

 

Just to me to claim to do "nothing" seems as extreme as perm banning everyone.

if that happened to me id cancel my sub and not even use the playtime left on it.

[dawg_bone]

It can do and has done. Read back on the thread ( or thread(s) ) for specifics.

 

Except it works both ways. For every hypothetical time you might miss out because someone had better gear than you, you could very well gain by ending up in a more well equipped group.

 

Lol probably not PVE ones, bias much.

 

No, just common sense. PVP you are competing against other players directly anything they do in terms of exploits directly impacts you and your ability to play the game.

[Elracor]

First off, I'd like to say you bring up a good point... but to counter it:

 

Servers like BC aren't even pugging Ravagers or ToS (nor were they before this became wide spread). Not only that, but it's next to impossible to DPS queue for 60 HM FP (especially on pub side with the Trevik Tython glitch), which is really the only way to get ultimate coms..

 

Well why would BC pug it if they're exploiting anyway? The first week or two most people were probably busy leveling and gearing their character, and once they were ready the exploit was out.

 

The funny part about your argument (which again, brings up a good point), is that in a round about way, is it's exactly why one might choose to use the Ravagers exploit. Think about it from this perspective. You didn't do the Nefra exploit, but you knew about it. You also missed out on potential raids because someone else did do it and therefore had better gear than you (and was chosen because of it). You also know that bioware did nothing about those who used the exploit, so when this new one came out, you figured you'd have to because a lot of others would and you didn't want to be left behind.

 

The Nefra exploit was different. It was a much simpler boss than Commander Draxus, you'd be killing that boss anyway to progress. You could do the boss properly with 1 main + 7 alts and gear up mains one at a time without exploiting (given you had enough decently geared alts of course).

That's not to say Bioware should have done better regarding that exploit because they should.

 

Besides, if someone would rather use an exploit rather than actually beating it legit, do you want them running in your group?

 

If the alternative is no group at all, why not?

 

Except it works both ways. For every hypothetical time you might miss out because someone had better gear than you, you could very well gain by ending up in a more well equipped group.

 

And either way you're still affected by the exploit. Just because the effect is positive doesn't mean it's suddenly okay to exploit.

Edited January 15, 2015 by MFollin

[LadyVix]

At the end of the day, when they make a mistake there is absolutely nothing wrong with the players calling them out on it. Whether that is here on the forums, or in game by using the exploits BW allowed to exist in the first place, is irrelevant.

 

Instead of accepting this, they chose to put up a vague and unprofessional post by Eric Musco which undoubtedly just made players curious about what he was talking about, and probably spread the knowledge and use of this even further. But now, as a developer, for them to be threatening the players who did this it is absolutely ridiculous and childish.

 

They need to get off the high horse, accept they should have tested their release more, and move on.

 

Childish is cheating in a video game, then pointing fingers at the dev team and blaming them for your transgressions.

 

"If you discipline me for cheating, i swear I'll take my $15 a month and go cheat somewhere else!" Fifteen bucks may seem like a fortune to you, but it's negligible to a corporation like EA that made a gross profit of more than $2,810,000,000 last fiscal year.

[Pagy]

Childish is cheating in a video game, then pointing fingers at the dev team and blaming them for your transgressions.

 

"If you discipline me for cheating, i swear I'll take my $15 a month and go cheat somewhere else!" Fifteen bucks may seem like a fortune to you, but it's negligible to a corporation like EA that made a gross profit of more than $2,810,000,000 last fiscal year.

im not sure youre looking at this the right way.

 

would ea knock bw over something like having a terrible quarter following a major development project? ea's success makes them more able to tank swtor, not less able.

[Lucpol]

get in a guild and stop being Casual bob, Any raid leader and skilled player knows gear isn't what makes the team it's skill and being able to play the class to the level of what the operation requires then you will get gear from the raid if required.

 

So far from reality mate... Its all about 'link gear & achievement'. That is the truth, lets not kid ourselves. Unless you manage to fin yourself in that 1/100 guild...

[Elracor]

im not sure youre looking at this the right way.

 

would ea knock bw over something like having a terrible quarter following a major development project? ea's success makes them more able to tank swtor, not less able.

 

They'll probably want SWTOR alive for Ep7-9 regardless of a drop in income during Q1-3 2015.