FreddyFlin Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 No Escape is largely a wasted utility imo, most classes have a root break on a relatively low cd and regardless one of your core abilities has a 50% slow tied to it which will achieve much the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magira Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) False. Damage matters, but it does not matter the most. Damage is important, no doubt. Much Damage often means: - Inefficiency in killing the enemy - Fluff by dot distribution - Attacking a Tank - Stay in Zerg - In addition, Fluff distribution is CC prevention for the whole team Damage ALWAYS must be considered in realtion to kills and objectives. Edited January 12, 2015 by Magira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Why would you run lower crit in yolos? PT's are normally targeted first so squeezing in any crits before dropping is always good. Which is exactly why you run less crit in solos. The value of crit rating decreases the shorter the fight is. Generally speaking people have about 20-21% crit with no crit rating on gear. taking a reasonable amount of crit only raises that number by maybe 2%. If a fight only lasts say 30 seconds, a 2% crit chance means almost nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Out of curiosity, I have not been playing much, but I find the old four piece eliminator set to provide better set bonus than the new 6 piece eliminator set. Since RS is approximately 25% of AP's damage it seems more important than 1 guaranteed critic every minute on EB. I've done the maths, and for the purposes of this I will assume an unlimited length fight. This actually favours the old set bonus more, as the auto-crit is front loaded while the crit boost is over the duration. Energy Burst does ~10% of your damage, while Rail Shot does ~25%. Both will have a ~20% crit rate naturally. They will both also have at least 70% surge, I'd probably stay there and then stack alacrity but OP is going up to 78%. Next up, looking at the effects of the set bonus: Old Merc 4-piece = 35% rail shot crit. This means it will crit 12.5% more often than it would without it, and putting that with 78% surge means that you go from 25% of your damage to 28.33% of your DPS (after adjusting for the actual downplaying of everything though, it means you do 27.4% of your damage through rail shot) So overall, a 3.33% increase to DPS. Now, the new 6-piece means that 40% of the time, you will auto-crit with Energy Burst. And its front loaded. This results in a 28.4% increase to Energy Burst's average damage, bringing it from 10% to 12.84%. So overall, with an unlimited length fight, the new set bonus will give a 2.84% increase for the 6-piece compared to the 3.33% increase for the old 4-piece. Only with an unlimited length fight, you also get to abuse the extra heat from a cheaper rocket punch, resulting in more Magnetic Blasts, meaning More damage. In addition, the new 6-piece has better aim contributions than the old 4-piece + new 2-piece, and on top of that the front loaded nature of the new 6-piece means that it will only start falling behind Rail Shot once you approach infinity. I also didn't account for Explosive Fuel, which devalues the Rail Shot crit boost far more than the Energy Burst auto-crit, as you can delay explosive fuel until after the auto-crit energy burst, but the benefit of the old 4-piece compared to an explosive fuel rail shot means its only a 11% increase to rail shot's damage - 2.72% increase. Its also RNG, so no guarantees it will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breaktobuild Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Which is exactly why you run less crit in solos. The value of crit rating decreases the shorter the fight is. Generally speaking people have about 20-21% crit with no crit rating on gear. taking a reasonable amount of crit only raises that number by maybe 2%. If a fight only lasts say 30 seconds, a 2% crit chance means almost nothing. This is frankly stupid and fits in perfectly with the rest of your unfounded argumentative QQ'ing. First off, this is really splitting hairs and would make basically no difference in most solo ranked games. But I'll entertain this point for the lol's: what does a 'reasonable amount' of crit even mean? Yes, Critical Chance at the lower end is probably ~20%, but there are plenty of half decent AP PT's running around with 29%. I guess they took a 'reasonable' amount of crit (lel)... if your bad enough that your going to drop within a few GCD's, having a high Crit Chance is probably going to be of benefit DPS wise with possibly an extra couple abilities rolling a critical hit which otherwise may not have. I'm sure Kwerty probably has a mathematical answer to this which may even undermine what I've said. But ultimately the whole point is moot anyway which is why it's stupid; play correctly and your highly unlikely to die within a few GCD's so this doesn't need to be entertained. Edited January 18, 2015 by breaktobuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) I don't think you understand how probability works. The existence of battle focus and the 6pc setbonus in particular, devalue crit extremely in short fights. The more crit you have innately (or with offensive cooldowns) the less valuable crit rating becomes. EDIT: 29% crit? Da ****? Do people not realize how big a waste of stats that is? Edited January 18, 2015 by Zoom_VI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottoattack Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I don't think you understand how probability works. The existence of battle focus and the 6pc setbonus in particular, devalue crit extremely in short fights. The more crit you have innately (or with offensive cooldowns) the less valuable crit rating becomes. EDIT: 29% crit? Da ****? Do people not realize how big a waste of stats that is? In yolo que, probably. In everything else you are better off with higher critic. Better burst and overall damage should be around the same or even higher due to surge bonus on almost all abilities. Even in yolo que, not every fight is 4 dps vs 4 dps. It makes little sense to gear for just that one possible composition in one game mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 In yolo que, probably. In everything else you are better off with higher critic. Better burst and overall damage should be around the same or even higher due to surge bonus on almost all abilities. Even in yolo que, not every fight is 4 dps vs 4 dps. It makes little sense to gear for just that one possible composition in one game mode. Ok first of all we where talking about yolo. Secondly crit builds are actually not helpful for our burst window. Crit only means anything when it allows you to crit when you otherwise would not have. During the battle focus window you have over 45% crit chance without any crit rating, which means the value of additional crit is rather low. Critical rating will only show over prolong periods. Such as a 8v8 or team 4s. But only in the overall DPS, if you want more burst you want more power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iDraxter Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) This is frankly stupid and fits in perfectly with the rest of your unfounded argumentative QQ'ing. First off, this is really splitting hairs and would make basically no difference in most solo ranked games. But I'll entertain this point for the lol's: what does a 'reasonable amount' of crit even mean? Yes, Critical Chance at the lower end is probably ~20%, but there are plenty of half decent AP PT's running around with 29%. I guess they took a 'reasonable' amount of crit (lel)... if your bad enough that your going to drop within a few GCD's, having a high Crit Chance is probably going to be of benefit DPS wise with possibly an extra couple abilities rolling a critical hit which otherwise may not have. I'm sure Kwerty probably has a mathematical answer to this which may even undermine what I've said. But ultimately the whole point is moot anyway which is why it's stupid; play correctly and your highly unlikely to die within a few GCD's so this doesn't need to be entertained. 29%?! crit?!?! half decent?! hahahahahahahhahahahah Zoom is right you don`t need to invest into any crit for yolo because ur targeted 1st always rarely 2nd if there`s some merc on your team and we have Explosive fuel and a auto crit on our 1st EB which is all we need for the initial engagement. Edited January 19, 2015 by iDraxter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iDraxter Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Why would you run lower crit in yolos? PT's are normally targeted first so squeezing in any crits before dropping is always good. Mate that is exactly why you don`t want to stack crit on PT for yolo, we have crit on demand aka Explosive fuel (which is enough if you know when to pop it) and a guaranteed crit on our 1st EB Btw pls be a dear and don`t throw around insults without even being provoked. Edited January 19, 2015 by iDraxter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breaktobuild Posted January 19, 2015 Author Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Mate that is exactly why you don`t want to stack crit on PT for yolo, we have crit on demand aka Explosive fuel (which is enough if you know when to pop it) and a guaranteed crit on our 1st EB Btw pls be a dear and don`t throw around insults without even being provoked. I never said to stack crit for solo ranked - please read posts correctly and in their entirety before commenting and maybe I won't need to. I simply said I wouldn't bother running lower crit for solo ranked compared to any other scenario - through proper use of CD's, I often stay alive longer than my Explosive Fuel duration in solo ranked so I don't see any point changing my gear for this purpose. Aside from this, I wouldn't bother dropping my crit any lower because I think I played with 21% Critical Chance in AP for the most part while I was gearing anyway. I feel 23-24% is the upper limit I would play with - but even then this might be pushing it for AP. Thanks for your comment. Edited January 21, 2015 by breaktobuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetrus Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Guys that's what my original comment said. I run 120 crit rating and sit at 23.71% ranged crit chance. IMO its better than a higher crit rate for yolos because they're shorter length usually. In group or regs, which are longer and thus will give you more crits, making crit a better value....more crit is better. But it comes down to preference and I'm not **** talking Bangers' opinion or anything. Far as damage not mattering I totally disagree for ranked. Killing people is the objective there and the more gear and skill you have to be able to wipe the enemy team fast, the faster you'll climb the ladder. Have fun with your taunts and peel for your teammates, et cetera...but the main thing is survive and do damage. Edited January 22, 2015 by Aetrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickNastee Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 What crystals in mh/oh do you guys usually run? The expertise or power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 What crystals in mh/oh do you guys usually run? The expertise or power? ...expertise.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunner_Venda Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 ...expertise.... Believe it or not, the question is legit. Bolster used to be bugged to the point where some PVE main hands were BIS until you get all ranked gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Believe it or not, the question is legit. Bolster used to be bugged to the point where some PVE main hands were BIS until you get all ranked gear. I would assume he was talking about PvP mainhands because most people specify when they are discussing bolster gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaane Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Anyone still use the old 4 piece bonus? I find that 15% crit to railshot is still huge. The current Combat set bonus is kind of ******, the one guaranteed crit doesn't seem worth it especially on a ability that has a huge cooldown. Railshot on the other hand is always up and hitting hard. Opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottoattack Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Anyone still use the old 4 piece bonus? I find that 15% crit to railshot is still huge. The current Combat set bonus is kind of ******, the one guaranteed crit doesn't seem worth it especially on a ability that has a huge cooldown. Railshot on the other hand is always up and hitting hard. Opinions? There is a bit of overall damage increase with the old set, but burst is detaintly better with the new set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaane Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Burst might be, but I notice that most people I am trying to finish are trying to escape and the super short range on Energy Burst is not really conducive to finishing them off. While a rail shot usually gets the job done. I will try the new set for a while and see how I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breaktobuild Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 I've done the maths, and for the purposes of this I will assume an unlimited length fight. This actually favours the old set bonus more, as the auto-crit is front loaded while the crit boost is over the duration. Energy Burst does ~10% of your damage, while Rail Shot does ~25%. Both will have a ~20% crit rate naturally. They will both also have at least 70% surge, I'd probably stay there and then stack alacrity but OP is going up to 78%. Next up, looking at the effects of the set bonus: Old Merc 4-piece = 35% rail shot crit. This means it will crit 12.5% more often than it would without it, and putting that with 78% surge means that you go from 25% of your damage to 28.33% of your DPS (after adjusting for the actual downplaying of everything though, it means you do 27.4% of your damage through rail shot) So overall, a 3.33% increase to DPS. Now, the new 6-piece means that 40% of the time, you will auto-crit with Energy Burst. And its front loaded. This results in a 28.4% increase to Energy Burst's average damage, bringing it from 10% to 12.84%. So overall, with an unlimited length fight, the new set bonus will give a 2.84% increase for the 6-piece compared to the 3.33% increase for the old 4-piece. Only with an unlimited length fight, you also get to abuse the extra heat from a cheaper rocket punch, resulting in more Magnetic Blasts, meaning More damage. In addition, the new 6-piece has better aim contributions than the old 4-piece + new 2-piece, and on top of that the front loaded nature of the new 6-piece means that it will only start falling behind Rail Shot once you approach infinity. I also didn't account for Explosive Fuel, which devalues the Rail Shot crit boost far more than the Energy Burst auto-crit, as you can delay explosive fuel until after the auto-crit energy burst, but the benefit of the old 4-piece compared to an explosive fuel rail shot means its only a 11% increase to rail shot's damage - 2.72% increase. Its also RNG, so no guarantees it will work. ^ This. Kwerty provides a good comparison between the two sets here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magira Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 super short range on Energy Burst Energy Burst has luxurious 10 meter range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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