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Bangers’ AP PT PvP Guide (3.0); Accidental post: additons occuring now


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Bangers’ AP PT PvP Guide (3.0)

 

*Accidentally posted while formatting, requested thread title to omit 'Accidental post: additions occurring now'

 

First off, I’d like to acknowledge and thank Jaci, Koozie and Littlebrittle for their feedback towards this guide. Koozie wrote a comprehensive and popular guide for this spec relevant to 2.5-2.10. In many ways, this was simply an update of what he’s written for 3.0. A 'Countering Classes' section was going to be included, but I thought I'd post the main guide first. If there is enough interest, I'll develop this section further and post it.

 

*Advanced Prototype and Pyro labels have been switched around for 3.0. I sometimes make reference to pre 3.0 AP, in which case I am actually referring to the old Pyro spec to clarify.

 

AP burst has become ridiculous in 3.0 which has prompted some players to further write the spec off as being ‘easy mode’ for PvP. Although I enjoy PT (all specs), I actively play most classes/specs (Don’t have a Jugg though) and agree that there are certainly more difficult things to play than AP PT in 3.0. That being said, there is still a certain level of skill required for this spec or everyone would be running around in God mode. This guide is intended to help players to gain greater understanding of how to gear/play AP PT correctly in a dynamic PvP environment.

 

Abbreviations:

 

General Terms:

AoE: Area of Effect

CD: Cooldown

DPS: Damage Per Second

GCD: Global Cooldown

DoT: Damage over Time

MS: Main Stat

 

Abilities:

DfA: Death From Above

EB: Energy Blast

ED: Explosive Dart

FS: Flame Sweep

MB: Magnetic Blast

RB: Retractable Blade

RP: Rocket Punch

RPS: Rapid Shots

RS: Rail Shot

SC: Shoulder Canon

TD: Thermal Detonator

VH: Vent Heat

 

Cooldowns/Buffs:

EF: Explosive Fuel

EL: Energy Lode

HO: Hydraulic Overrides

KO: Kolto Overload

TSO: Thermal Sensor Override

 

Gear & Stats:

 

Run the 6-piece Combat Tech set with Dark Reaver Relics of Serendipitous Assault (Power) & Focused Retribution (MS). If you're running less crit rating in favor of power in your gear, you can opt for the Devastating Vengeance relic (Crit. Rating)*. This is personal preference. My Current Stats: 3607 Aim, 1439 Power, 718 Surge rating, 231 Crit. Rating, Accuracy Rating: 86 (I haven’t min/maxed with Dark Reaver gear entirely). Use Aim augments (due to the 5% boost from Mark of Power buff) and make sure you min/max with Advanced Agile Mod 33x (high Power).

 

Utilities:

 

The following utilities will give you a solid ‘all-round’ performance in regs/solo ranked. Some people have already cried about these selections without any rationale to properly support alternatives. Ultimately, these will be perfectly fine for someone who is learning the spec for most PvP situations broadly speaking. As you become more comfortable, you can experiment with different options with good reason behind your choices - use your brain.

 

Skilful:


  • Gyroscopic Alignment Jets: Vents 10 heat when stunned, knocked down, or otherwise incapacitated.


  • Suppressive tools: MB reduces the movement speed of affected targets by 50% for 6 seconds.


  • Bracer propellant: Increases range of MB by 5m.

 

Masterful:


  • Torque Boosters: Increases duration of HO by 4 seconds.


  • Pyro Shield: When activated, your ES ignites in a blaze lashing attackers for 869 elemental damage while it remains active. This effect cannot occur more than once each second.

 

Heroic:


  • Shield Cannon: Damaging a target with your SC missiles heals you for 5% of your total health.


  • Override: HO increases movement speed by an additional 45% while active

 

Opening rotation from range:

 

  1. FS: Use prior to reaching attacking range (30m). This procs a resource free RS (lasts 10 seconds, refreshed every 6 seconds).
  2. TD: This is your opener. It should be prioritised over a proc’d RS given its static CD, slightly increased damage, and application of a tech damage debuff (discussed later).
  3. RS, MB (10-15m) and RP (4m): Use these after your TD. Your initial MB will proc a second RS, but RP should be prioritised as it again has a static CD, applies an armour debuff (discussed later), has 5% passive increased crit chance
  4. Second RS: Execute RS again at this point.
  5. Continue prioritising the following abilities as they become available:
     

    EB (proc’d only*) > TD > RP > RS (proc’d only) > MB.


*EB can be fully proc’d via x4 stacks of EL (granted by x4 RS). It also benefits from an auto-crit every 1 minute via the 6-piece set Combat Tech set bonus. Although you don’t need to wait for the auto-crit to use it, it should ONLY be used when fully proc’d with x4 EL stacks.

*I normally don’t apply RB unless I think the target will stay up for 18 seconds or longer. Heat management is discussed later.

 

Maximum Surprise Burst Considerations:

 

Since 3.0, AP is capable of the hardest hitting burst potential within a single GCD in the game. This starts with ‘preloading’ a target with three debuffs:

 

  • Sundered: 20% armour debuff applied by RP. 45 second duration.
     
  • Susceptible: 5% increased tech damage debuff applied by TD. 45 second duration.
     
  • Bleeding: 3% increased damage debuff applied from RB. 20 second duration. Refreshed by RS and ED. Either direct or splash damage.

 

I don’t necessarily deviate from my regular rotation to apply these debuffs, but simply take note when they are loaded on someone. Once they are, I use the following rotation for maximum burst:

 

TD > (EF) > RP > EB* > SC (x7) > RS > MB > RS > MB.

*Proc’d from x4 stacks of EL and, if available, the auto crit. from the 6-piece Combat Tech set bonus. Note: Using this combination is resource costly, so be prepared to use VH or at least TSO for EB.

 

With this rotation, TD will explode within the same GCD that EB is unleashed within - potentially hitting for ~25k, if both abilities crit. RS can replace EB when it’s not fully proc’d with x4 EL stacks. EB is the preferred option however for 3 reasons: 1) It hits far harder! 2) Unlike RS, it is a tech attack. As such, it benefits from the Susceptible debuff (in addition to others). 3) You get an auto crit. every minute via the 6 piece set bonus.

 

Note that SC does not respect the GCD. This means you can use other abilities as SC is firing off. I’ve arranged my key binds so that I can easily spam SC while simultaneously hitting MB and RS keys. If you’re fast enough, you should be able to get off x2 RS’s and x2 MB’s just as SC finishes unloading. Also, SC needs to be preloaded. Initial activation grants 4 missiles, with an additional 3 missiles loading gradually over 18 seconds. Preloaded missiles last 5 minutes on your bar. Only when all 7 missiles have been depleted will SC go on CD.

 

AoE Damage:

 

You can break from the single target rotation to use AoE abilities in the following situations:

 

Explosive Dart:

Use ED if its explosion will hit at least 3 targets (excluding tanks). It’s a 4 second timed explosion and the radius is ~4 meters, so you have to pre-empt opponents remaining within that radius. For example, if you see melee players focusing one teammate this could be a solid opportunity, as they are likely to remain clumped until it explodes.

 

Death from Above:

Use DfA if you’re able to catch at least 2 targets for its entire 3 second channel. It has 6 ticks, so even catching 2 targets for 2 seconds can deal a significant amount of damage. Heat cost now occurs over gradually over cast duration, so don’t freak out if you’re interrupted/need to cancel out of this ability early.

 

Flamethrower:

DON’T USE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE as AP. It does minimal damage, has no slow effect, and is resource hungry.

 

Resource Management (Heat):

 

First off, never enter diminishing returns (>40 heat) unless using a high burst rotation with VH available. When starting out, a lot of people complain about overheating the AP resource pool. One steadfast rule that applies here as it did pre 3.0. Never use more than two tech attacks in a row without following up with a proc’d RS (or, rarely, RPS). Note: A proc’d RS on target with RB bleed reduces heat. A proc’d RS on a target without RB bleed has no effect on heat. An unproc’d RS increases heat. The heat reduction from RB’s bleed effect is very handy; it is not absolutely necessary in reg games, but is vital in group ranked.

 

Despite its 3% damage taken debuff and a small DoT, RB should only be used where you think a target is going to stay alive longer than 18 seconds (or when ‘loading up’ for maximum surprise burst). However, players sometimes drop too fast to warrant its use. In this situation, proc’d resource-free RS’s are enough to manage heat without liberally resorting to RPS. The one time RPS are particularly necessary is where EB or DfA are used without TSO. Provided you’re not above 30 heat, only x1 RPS will be enough to bring your resource pool back under control in such a situation. Note: A proc’d RS must be executed within the next 2 GCD’s however, or you’ll be back to square one. Although TD and RP should still be prioritised over RS, as discussed earlier, this should not come at the expense of diminishing returns on heat. Thus, RS remains critical in sustaining DPS while managing resource.

 

Thermal Sensor Override:

Save this for DfA (30 heat over channel duration) and EB (20 heat), but only after you have already built up some heat. These abilities cost more than any other, and easily take you into diminishing returns on your resource.

 

Gyroscopic Alignment Jets utility:

Take it! Venting 10 heat every time your stunned is incredibly useful. The only class I don’t mind being stunned on too much!

 

Defensive Considerations:

 

AP is largely a mid-ranged ranged spec and should be played as such! Of AP’s 10 attacks, 8 can be used from 10m range! Good PT’s take advantage of this. The closest I’ll get to a target is 4m when applying RB or RP. At all other times, I’ll maintain a 10m range from which all other abilities are executable. This negates a lot of melee attacks: Thrash/Assassinate from Hatred Sin, Viscious Slash/Ravage from Marauder, most Concealment Op attacks, RP’s from other PT’s, etc. Maintaining range may also make you an undesirable AoE target.

 

Utility boosts to HO speed enhance kiting capability to maximise time and space between yourself and receiving damage. I’ve unbound my back-pedal key, and for good reason! It’s much faster to strafe in, out and around your target, rather than back-pedal away. If you want to maximise damage mitigation, get comfortable with strafing!

 

Cooldowns:

Good players cycle CDs! This means using defensive abilities conditionally, thus minimising the time you’re left without any mitigation options. Generally, defensives can be prioritised according CD length and duration. But as with anything in PvP, fluctuating game dynamics will ultimately dictate the best method of use.

 

Kiting/Hydraulic Overrides:

Available every 30 seconds with a 10 second duration (potentially able to run almost 1/3rd of the time!). This should be your most frequently used CD, and your first priority in most situations. As HO is often up, it can be easy to pop it on CD. Try to avoid doing this, as 20 seconds can be a long time to go without a much-needed increase to movement speed in certain situations. HO should therefore only be used when your movement speed becomes so inhibited that your damage potential/mitigation becomes compromised.

 

Sonic Missile:

This doubles as a taunt, but is not generally acknowledged for its personal defensive capability (30% defensive chance for 6 seconds). It’s ‘best’ use is ultimately situational. In group ranked, I try to keep it on CD to mitigate damage to my teammates. Solo ranked and regs are a different story - if I see TD, Ambush or even Cull coming my way, it offers a decent chance to resist considerable damage. Not many people realise this, but it also offers the chance to resist stuns. Taunts don’t require a GCD so there is no reason not to use them!

 

Energy Shield:

The same applies here as it did pre 3.0, so take Koozie’s lead with its use. With a 120 second cool down and only 15 seconds duration, you’d want to pop it just as you begin to take significant sustained damage. Normally good for when someone’s tunneling you. However, as Koozie mentions in his 2.5-2.10 guide, don’t save it when you’re getting tunneled – pop it!. Sustained damage reduces its CD by 3 seconds on 1.5 second a rate limit, so it can be used effectively every 50 seconds in heated games.

 

Electro Dart and Carbonise (stuns):

Don’t stun for the sake of it. Use these to interrupt attacks casts/channels or heals.

 

Kolto Overload:

This has become weaker in 3.0, as it no longer receives 30% increased damage reduction while active. Prior to this change, I never died through Kolto! Now, it’s possible to get taken down from some unlucky crits from two decent opponents. Although I don’t like doing this, especially considering their large CD's, stacking Adrenal on top of KO may be the best option for staying alive under extreme burst situations.

 

Determination (CC breaker):

Stuns are often used in conjunction with burst to prevent damage mitigation via defensive CDs/kiting. AP has a nifty 30% damage reduction while stunned, which is greater damage mitigation than energy shield! While a good offense is often the best defence, it’s not entirely the case at times for this class. Don’t break hard stuns unless you can mitigate more than 30% damage via other means and/or the burst is too great (i.e. you need to pop medpack/Kolto or you’ll die). Breaking to gain time or space via an AoE stun or HO (but NEVER both at the same time) can be worth it, depending on how much damage you’re taking (i.e. if you would otherwise die without using further defensives). This requires careful attention to the situation. For example, you might take a heavy 14k Raging Burst while stunned from a Fury Marauder. In situations like these, it can be easy to get rattled and instinctively break + medpack. However, it’s unlikely that any follow up attacks from the Fury tree will drop you while stunned. Thus, although it might be scary for a second, riding out the stun and eating 30% mitigated damage may be the better option rather than breaking. Remember that even exceptional players can unlucky in these situations! Accept that you’ll sometimes die when it would have been better to break. But if you follow this logic, you’ll win most, lose some. Note: I rarely break in solo ranked unless my resolve is full and there are no healers in the game.

 

I hope you have found this guide informative and useful. If I've missed anything, let me know and I'll try to address it. I'm currently playing on Harbinger. Feel free to hit me up in game if you need any help.

Edited by breaktobuild
Bangers’ AP PT PvP Guide (3.0)
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Hmm, a little confused ...

I do not think so, that the utilities for Regs and Arena are the same. They have completely different circumstances. It is also in the Regs solo completely different than in group. You can not cover everything with one all-in build.

Edited by Magira
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I stopped reading when you recommended taking Pyro shield. Useless fluff damage is useless fluff damage. Also Gyroscopic is pretty bad too, unless you are really bad with ammo management.

 

Another note is Shield Cannon does not heal you for 5% of your HP. In PvP it is subject to the base trauma you get for simply being in PvP combat. Generally this means it only comes out to be about 3% of your HP, and is generally a pretty bad talent for non-tanks.

 

http://dulfy.net/2014/10/13/swtor-disciplines-calculator-swtor_miner/?link=dGEAAAA8AAECFwIFBAoMFBAA

Edited by Zoom_VI
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Hmm, a little confused ...

I do not think so, that the utilities for Regs and Arena are the same. They have completely different circumstances. It is also in the Regs solo completely different than in group. You can not cover everything with one all-in build.

 

I totally agree. Builds should always be specific to what you are trying to achieve. Objective and deathmatch aren't the same, you can't just use one build to cover these two different roles.

Edited by dijskykiller
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Hmm, a little confused ...

I do not think so, that the utilities for Regs and Arena are the same. They have completely different circumstances. It is also in the Regs solo completely different than in group. You can not cover everything with one all-in build.

 

...Although I agree that regs/SOLO ranked circumstances are different, there is nothing else I would consider opting for/changing considering the usefulness, or lack of in the the remaining AP utilities. Were there specific utility configurations you had in mind that differ for regs/solo ranked that were confusing you? For group ranked, one change I would possibly make is Enhanced Paralytics for the extra second on Electro Dart and Carbonise for hard swaps.

Edited by breaktobuild
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I totally agree. Builds should always be specific to what you are trying to achieve. Objective and deathmatch aren't the same, you can't just use one build to cover these two different roles.

 

...I'm not sure what you mean by 'what you are trying achieve'? AS AP PT your trying to achieve damage potential. This doesn't mean you can't play 'objectively' nor am I implying that my build is for 'death matching'. Again, if your confused about a specific utility selection or would argue for different utility set up for solo ranked/regs , I'm all ears :) As I've previously mentioned, the scope of AP utilities doesn't provide for much else in way of 'usefulness' towards tailoring between solo ranked/regs.

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I stopped reading when you recommended taking Pyro shield. Useless fluff damage is useless fluff damage. Also Gyroscopic is pretty bad too, unless you are really bad with ammo management.

 

Another note is Shield Cannon does not heal you for 5% of your HP. In PvP it is subject to the base trauma you get for simply being in PvP combat. Generally this means it only comes out to be about 3% of your HP, and is generally a pretty bad talent for non-tanks.

 

http://dulfy.net/2014/10/13/swtor-disciplines-calculator-swtor_miner/?link=dGEAAAA8AAECFwIFBAoMFBAA

 

...If one person tunnels you for the entire duration Pyro Shield is active (15 seconds), you'll emit a total of 8770dmg. That's basically 'free damage' equivalent to a RS, not exactly fluff damage. In the day and age where AP PT is a favorable choice for focus, you can emit considerable damage.

 

Re. Shield Cannon for Shoulder Cannon: [/b]Maybe you don't understand the ability properly re. heal potential - EACH missile heals you for X amount according to your total health pool. Even with PvP trauma, unleashing all of your missiles can heal you for just over a quarter of your total health pool. Almost a free Medpack basically. Again, in a day and age where AP is a DPS magnet, this is very handy especially in solo ranked.

 

Gyroscopic Alignment Jets: is a must. Venting 10 heat every time your stunned means you can come out of stuns and unleash even greater burst within a small window. i.e. What you lose in time being stunned you gain in DPS via latitude with your resource pool by taking this utility. Considering how often stuns are dished out, any half decent AP PT takes this.

 

Your criticisms are welcome but unfounded unless you can provide 'better' alternatives...thanks for your post.

Edited by breaktobuild
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...I'm not sure what you mean by 'what you are trying achieve'? AS AP PT your trying to achieve damage potential. This doesn't mean you can't play 'objectively' nor am I implying that my build is for 'death matching'. Again, if your confused about a specific utility selection or would argue for different utility set up for solo ranked/regs , I'm all ears :) As I've previously mentioned, the scope of AP utilities doesn't provide for much else in way of 'usefulness' towards tailoring between solo ranked/regs.

 

It is not always about damage like what i've said in regs. I would choose an AP who plays objectively any day than one that just crunch numbers all day long. By saying this, "no escape" and "accelerated reel" are good options and does make a difference if utilized perfectly. Pyro shield is a 1v1 talent if you will ask me. If somebody will use it against me in regs, i will just ignore him and switch to somebody. Choosing talents that will benefit the whole team is always what i prefer coz pvp is a team game and it gives more impact to the outcome of match.

 

In arenas, "sonic rebounder" and "enhanced paralytics" are nice because you will often find people in thick of things making your carbonite and sonic missile so effective helping your team and disabling enemies. Overdrive is nice for kiting, but if you can manage well without it, why pick it up. It's not all about what you can deliver and how you can be on top. But rather, how you can get the win for your team.

Edited by dijskykiller
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...If one person tunnels you for the entire duration Pyro Shield is active (15 seconds), you'll emit a total of 8770dmg. That's basically 'free damage' equivalent to a RS, not exactly fluff damage. In the day and age where AP PT is a favorable choice for focus, you can emit considerable damage.

You forget that Pyro shield damage can only hit one target per rate limit. If you are taking damage from three guys (even if its just a dot) then the damage will be spread across all of them, making it nearly meaningless.

 

 

Did you mean Shoulder Cannon not 'Shield Cannon'?: Maybe you don't understand the ability properly re. heal potential - EACH missile heals you for X amount according to your total health pool. Even with PvP trauma, unleashing all of your missiles can heal you for just over a quarter of your total health pool. Almost a free Medpack basically. Again, in a day and age where AP is a DPS magnet, this is very handy especially in solo ranked.

I know full well how the talent works, but unlike you I know how effective it is in a practical situation, or rather I know how ineffective tying a mediocre self heal to your primary offensive cooldown is. This like Pyro shield is nothing but a dueling talent that has little to no effect in any kind of group PVP.

 

Gyroscopic Alignment Jets: is a must. Venting 10 heat every time your stunned means you can come out of stuns and unleash even greater burst within a small window. i.e. What you lose in time being stunned you gain in DPS via latitude with your resource pool by taking this utility. Considering how often stuns are dished out, any half decent AP PT takes this.

Any half decent PT can manage their own heat with having to wait for people to CC them. You already regenerate heat while stunned simply because you are not spending it. You don't need more, that talent point is better spent on 15% movement speed.

Edited by Zoom_VI
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It is not always about damage like what i've said in regs. I would choose an AP who plays objectively any day than one that just crunch numbers all day long. By saying this, "no escape" and "accelerated reel" are good options and does make a difference if utilized perfectly. Pyro shield is a 1v1 talent if you will ask me. If somebody will use it against me in regs, i will just ignore him and switch to somebody. Choosing talents that will benefit the whole team is always what i prefer coz pvp is a team game and it gives more impact to the outcome of match.

 

In arenas, "sonic rebounder" and "enhanced paralytics" are nice because you will often find people in thick of things making your carbonite and sonic missile so effective helping your team and disabling enemies. Overdrive is nice for kiting, but if you can manage well without it, why pick it up. It's not all about what you can deliver and how you can be on top. But rather, how you can get the win for your team.

 

Thanks for your reply. I don't mean to be argumentative for argumentative's sake but I'd have to disagree constructively. You mentioned 'Accelerated reel' and 'No Escape, but did not argue for preference/usefulness of these utilities specifically against/in contrast to the utilities I've outlined in my guide. You seem to imply that are better options to play more objectively and help your team - how is this in contrast to the utilities I've outlined?

 

I'm not going to get caught on the whole DPS vs objectives thing. I don't see these as being polar - both can be achieved concurrently. Pyro Shield - There are plenty times I've been tunneled through this and emitted considerable damage back to my target. Again, if my target decides to tunnel me through it (this happens 99% of the time), I've almost reduced that target's health by a quarter of their health without doing anything. If this helps me to eliminate my target, how am I not helping my team/playing objectively with a threat removed? Regardless, I'd prefer someone to switch off me when I pop it. That's 100% damage reduction XD

 

Yes, as I've acknowledged Enhanced Paralytics can be useful in arenas for hard swaps.

 

Sonic Missile - despite suggesting a number of other utility option you only mentioned Energy Shield as an alternative utility to those I outlined and so I can only compare Sonic Missile to this....it reflects a single attack (which could be minimal) vs. ~8k of damage via Energy shied?

 

Again, what would you take in place of HO utility? What would be more useful? Kiting is central to AP's survivability and this can negate a lot of damage. If this utility helps you to stay alive, how is that not helping your team? You mentioned, 'if you can manage without it?' How does one do this?

 

Thanks for your post.

Edited by breaktobuild
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You forget that Pyro shield damage can only hit one target per rate limit. If you are taking damage from three guys (even if its just a dot) then the damage will be spread across all of them, making it nearly meaningless.

 

Again, you haven't provided a 'better' alternative'. As this spec is designed for DPS output and this will help to dish out additional damage, however 'meaningless'. Another person who posted in this thread mentions that they switch from from AP when this is popped - I'm not suggesting this is right/wrong but if others were discouraged to hit you that's 100% damage reduction because of a bit of 'fluff' damage. lol....

 

I know full well how the talent works, but unlike you I know how effective it is in a practical situation, or rather I know how ineffective tying a mediocre self heal to your primary offensive cooldown is. This like Pyro shield is nothing but a dueling talent that has little to no effect in any kind of group PVP.

Again, you haven't provided a better alternative here - simply criticised. Healing for nearly a quarter of your health is never impractical lol.... You compare it to AP's primary offensive CD, but that's the point here because you can have BOTH :). The point is that this utility, in conjunction with others mentioned are collectively optimal for playing this spec in a PvP environment.

Any half decent PT can manage their own heat with having to wait for people to CC them. You already regenerate heat while stunned simply because you are not spending it. You don't need more, that talent point is better spent on 15% movement speed.

Primarily, this utility isn't a question of managing heat. It's a question of having extra/additional/more latitude with your resource pool coming out of a stun that you might output more burst in a smaller time frame because venting 10-20 heat meant that you could use an extra TD,MB or whatever in succession to pressure your target - the primary objective of the spec XD.

 

Thanks for your reply.

Edited by breaktobuild
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A Powertech as pure DD has no existence in the Pug Regs. Often enough, you're the best Defender or no one else is willing to do so. Damage you do well enough if you take utilities that are also suitable. Therefore belongs to me for Pug Regs "No Escape" as Dual use (Root AND Stealth Detection) and "Automated Suit" as the second Stunbreaker at least a closer look. I take both, I would take both for Arena and Premade Warzones NOT. Edited by Magira
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A Powertech as pure DD has no existence in the Pug Regs. Often enough, you're the best Defender or no one else is willing to do so. Damage you do well enough if you take utilities that are also suitable. Therefore belongs to me for Pug Regs "No Escape" as Dual use (Root AND Stealth Detection) and "Automated Suit" as the second Stunbrecher at least a closer look. I take both, I would take both for Arena and Premade Warzones NOT.

 

As I've said to others, you mentioned these utilities but did not provide any basis for why they are preferable over those I've outlined in my guide. Simply describing what they do doesn't provide much of a rationale. You mention 'No Escape" - what would you take this over in reference to the utilities I've outlined in my guide?' How is rooting someone on the off-chance that you actually pop them successfully more useful than anything I've provided? Stealth scan already has a short 20 second CD. Are you really needing it more than every 20 seconds that you would take 'No Escape' to reduce it's CD by 5 seconds??? Maybe I should include stealth scan in my regular rotation in that case. :rolleyes:

 

Once popped, Kolto Overload remains on your bar for 1 minute. This alone negates half the 'usefulness' of this utility. One minute is ample time to preempt when to use KO without resorting to using it entirely re-actively. If this wasn't enough, KO should be priortised as one of last resorts so you should EASILY be able to know when to active the 1 minute timer as you chew threw other defensive CD's. Also, having a 30% dmg reduction while stunned negates any benefit from the CC break that comes with this utility. I don't know about you, it's pretty rare I can negate more than 30% dmg by breaking and doing something else so I find an extra CC breaker a bit pointless for AP. In other words, I don't need to break to use KO because I've activated when I know I'm running out of options. Again, seems very reactive and therefore a waste to this...

 

Thanks for your post.

Edited by breaktobuild
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Just a whimsical story for interest, but I had two opponents on me in an arena and I was the last one up for my team. I was surprised to see that my pyro shield dropped one of them. The hit was 1397, lol not much, but it must have crit while I was focusing on the other player. Not a big game breaker,for id have immediately dropped said opponent with something else... Just poking this story up for conversation.
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Also, having a 30% dmg reduction while stunned negates any benefit from the CC break that comes with this utility. I don't know about you, it's pretty rare I can negate more than 30% dmg by breaking and doing something else so I find an extra CC breaker a bit pointless for AP. In other words, I don't need to break to use KO because I've activated when I know I'm running out of options. Again, seems very reactive and therefore a waste to this...

 

Thanks for your post.

 

You only think in damage, right? :D The Rootbreaker is of course not meant to avoid damage, but in order to prevent from someone Capping. Have you defend in Pugs sometimes?

Edited by Magira
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Note: This is entirely from a group ranked perspective. Regs are laughable with a competent four-man premade or even just a healer at your back and solo queue is an RNG game.

 

As far as utilities go, I personally run:

 

Skillful: Gyroscopic Alignment, Bracer Propellent and Suppressive tools.

 

Reasons being basically what banger outlaid earlier. The extra heat coming out of a stun has literally nothing to do with knowing how to play the class and more to do with having extra damage available. It increases your damage potential a good deal. You don't play like a tard and then hope someone stuns you, you punish them for stunning you by slamming them with a less heat-conservative version of the rotation.

 

Masterful: Sonic Rebounder and Torque boosters.

 

This tier is a little more personal preference I think and depends largely on how you use the taunt. I tend to use mine to help mitigate team damage rather than a personal CD, so the reflect on it can save lives. Torque just helps kiting and combined with Overdrive is amazing.

 

Heroic: Enhanced Paralytics and Overdrive.

 

The extra stun duration really puts the pressure on groups when they're sat in a near 4s carbonize followed by a 5s Edart while your EFuel + Cannons are wrecking someone. Overdrive lets you kite basically anything.

 

The only other thing I would say is don't proc RS before combat. Back to back rails in the opener is the good kush.

 

TD > RB > RS > MB > EB > RS is a solid move chain that really puts the damage on. I don't use Edart much tbh. People rave about DAT BURST M8 but it's really quite weak and you're better off with a MB for the heat.

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Thanks for your reply. I don't mean to be argumentative for argumentative's sake but I'd have to disagree constructively. You mentioned 'Accelerated reel' and 'No Escape, but did not argue for preference/usefulness of these utilities specifically against/in contrast to the utilities I've outlined in my guide. You seem to imply that are better options to play more objectively and help your team - how is this in contrast to the utilities I've outlined?

 

I'm not going to get caught on the whole DPS vs objectives thing. I don't see these as being polar - both can be achieved concurrently. Pyro Shield - There are plenty times I've been tunneled through this and emitted considerable damage back to my target. Again, if my target decides to tunnel me through it (this happens 99% of the time), I've almost reduced that target's health by a quarter of their health without doing anything. If this helps me to eliminate my target, how am I not helping my team/playing objectively with a threat removed? Regardless, I'd prefer someone to switch off me when I pop it. That's 100% damage reduction XD

 

Yes, as I've acknowledged Enhanced Paralytics can be useful in arenas for hard swaps.

 

Sonic Missile - despite suggesting a number of other utility option you only mentioned Energy Shield as an alternative utility to those I outlined and so I can only compare Sonic Missile to this....it reflects a single attack (which could be minimal) vs. ~8k of damage via Energy shied?

 

Again, what would you take in place of HO utility? What would be more useful? Kiting is central to AP's survivability and this can negate a lot of damage. If this utility helps you to stay alive, how is that not helping your team? You mentioned, 'if you can manage without it?' How does one do this?

 

Thanks for your post.

 

Pyro shield will only be usefull if you are getting attacked the whole duration. Against good players, they will just stun or ignore you. Accelerated reel and no escape can help the team by making a target overextend to your teams position with an added root, which is already an advantage. It's not always about damage just like what i've said. In huttball or these any maps with nodes, these can help your team buy some time to cap or burn a target on a fire pit. Utilities such as pull and immobilize are golden if you know how to use when and where.

 

In a tight fight, sonic rebounder can save your team members *** from getting dropped. If somebody is almost dead you may still be able to buy em off time to heal and do more damage than kite around with one or two person in your team down.

Edited by dijskykiller
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You only think in damage, right? :D The Rootbreaker is of course not meant to avoid damage, but in order to prevent from someone Capping. Have you defend in Pugs sometimes?

 

Indeed. The root part of "no escape" is why you spec for it. Pull and root for few seconds is a very nice utility in a team setting.

Edited by dijskykiller
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The thing Bangers and I talked about while writing this guide was, should we make different utilities for different types of scenarios for PVP? We came to the conclusion to just have one set utility combo just b/c we wanted to a person to jump into a warzone and have fun. Whether it be ranked or non ranked, the current utility is viable for all aspects of pvp, but the set up could be better. Small twinks can be made.

 

That being said, our guide wasn't really going to people who already know how to play a PT. It was more or less for the ones who just started playing and were looking for that bridge into the next level of play of the Powertech. Although like Bangers said, he is open suggestions and civilized discussion.

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You only think in damage, right? :D The Rootbreaker is of course not meant to avoid damage, but in order to prevent from someone Capping. Have you defend in Pugs sometimes?

 

You would break via 'Automated Suite' to stop a cap and in doing so, potentially waste your KO if you didn't then take damage? This is a complete waste and frankly stupid. If your talking about guarding a node in Civil War or something, SC doesn't respect the GCD and can be used to stop a cap while stunned.

Edited by breaktobuild
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Pyro shield will only be usefull if you are getting attacked the whole duration. Against good players, they will just stun or ignore you.

 

If you stun and ignore me because I've popped ES with Pyro Shield selected, I've effectively achieved 100% damage mitigation from you lol....

Accelerated reel and no escape can help the team by making a target overextend to your teams position with an added root, which is already an advantage. It's not always about damage just like what i've said. In huttball or these any maps with nodes, these can help your team buy some time to cap or burn a target on a fire pit. Utilities such as pull and immobilize are golden if you know how to use when and where.

 

You haven't justified which other utilities you disregard to take these besides Pyro Shield.

In a tight fight, sonic rebounder can save your team members *** from getting dropped. If somebody is almost dead you may still be able to buy em off time to heal and do more damage than kite around with one or two person in your team down.

 

I would consider taking Sonic Redoubter in grouped ranked over Pyro Shield. Even then however, it's only one reflection (hopefully you'd get the most out of it's AoE effect) every 45 seconds. One GCD of reflected damage isn't going to save anyone - it may only help overall every 45 seconds at most.

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You only think in damage, right? :D The Rootbreaker is of course not meant to avoid damage, but in order to prevent from someone Capping. Have you defend in Pugs sometimes?

 

You would break via 'Automated Suite' to stop a cap and in doing so, potentially waste your KO if you didn't then take damage? This is a complete waste. If your talking about guarding a node in Civil War or something, SC doesn't respect the GCD and can be used to stop a cap while stunned.

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The only other thing I would say is don't proc RS before combat. Back to back rails in the opener is the good kush.

 

I'm a bit confused why you wouldn't proc RS prior to engaging in combat for an opening rotation? It's resource free and doesn't come at the expense of anything else. Even in group ranked, what harm comes from proc'ing as you leave the gates? I'm not exactly sure what you mean't by using RS back to back? The rotation you outlined (below) doesn't use them back to back? I interpret back to back as RS > RS. Even then, I'm not sure why you would ever do this?

TD > RB > RS > MB > EB > RS is a solid move chain that really puts the damage on.

Why wouldn't you use EB at the 3rd spot in your suggested rotation? If your talking about putting damage on, EB hits harder than RS as I discussed and as such, you want to use it in the same GCD that TD explodes within. No other combination of abilities will give you larger burst within a single GCD. I've discussed 'preloading' a target with debuffs, including from RB prior to engaging in a burst rotation. You've outlined 6 GCD's here, if you want to get the most out of your burst rotation it makes sense to apply all debuffs prior. Also, why use RB over RP? - RP does more damage and has a static CD as I've discussed......

 

I don't use Edart much tbh. People rave about DAT BURST M8 but it's really quite weak and you're better off with a MB for the heat.

Edart use is situational as I've outlined and as such, it's frequency of use really depends - decent contributing damage for clumped players however so should be ignored entirely. I don't see people raving about Edart 'burst' though...MB and Edart cost the same amount of heat.....

 

Thanks for your post.

Edited by breaktobuild
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If you stun and ignore me because I've popped ES with Pyro Shield selected, I've effectively achieved 100% damage mitigation from you lol....

 

If all you want to focus on is keeping yourself alive and doing damage, then i can't change your opinion on regs. You mitigated the damage, but other teammates will still take that damage coz it's a team game. Furthermore, the reason i would drop pyro shield is to increase my team utility by decreased grapple cd or added root per pull.

 

You haven't justified which other utilities you disregard to take these besides Pyro Shield.

 

Torque boosters. Added 4 seconds is just for preference and convenience with overdrive. You don't really need the extra 4 seconds in every given situation. If you drop both pyro shield and torque boosters and spec for both no escape and accelerated reel, you have a 30s pull that has 3 second root, now that's a nice uptime of utility right there for objective plays.

 

I would consider taking Sonic Redoubter in grouped ranked over Pyro Shield. Even then however, it's only one reflection (hopefully you'd get the most out of it's AoE effect) every 45 seconds. One GCD of reflected damage isn't going to save anyone - it may only help overall every 45 seconds at most.

 

Well, that's 45s for every team member compared to just protecting yourself ~2 mins or less, worse if you get ignored or long stunned. And if they ignore you their damage output will still be delivered to one of your teammates so there's really no mitigation happening here, unless it is a 1v1 duel. On the other hand, with Sonic rebounder, there's a guaranteed reflect for each member affected.

Edited by dijskykiller
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If all you want to focus on is keeping yourself alive and doing damage, then i can't change your opinion on regs.

 

I just noticed from your signature that you main a PT tank. I feel your missing the point of AP by perhaps being influenced by your tanking mindset. Again, staying alive/damage output isn't polar to playing objectively - one does not have to occur at the expense of the other. I can still help my team/play objectively regardless of utility selection. Peeling for teammates with stuns/taunts in appropriate situations can still occur. I understand that you're trying to make the point that No Escape, Accelerated Reel & Sonic Rebounder may collectively be better for assisting your team/playing objectively over Pyro Shield & Overdrive. I've directly responding to this argument below, your missing the point of what AP was primarily designed for - it's first and foremost a burst class. If you want help your teammates out via utilities with a DPS class, play MM sniper. AP is designed to drop targets quickly first and foremost, which ironically is probably going to be of best help to your team/objectives anyway. You're eliminating threats. Btw, you suggested three Utilities as being 'better' than those in the guide, but have only attempted to argue against two outlined within it.

 

Torque boosters. Added 4 seconds is just for preference and convenience with overdrive. You don't really need the extra 4 seconds in every given situation. If you spec for both no escape and accelerated reel, you have a 30s pull that has 3 second root, now that's a nice uptime of utility right there for objective plays.

 

Torque Boosters provides greater up-time for HO than what Accelerated Reel and Covered Escape does for Grapple. Not to mention that Override & HO provide far greater utility for objectives / assisting team mates than Grapple - See below....

 

Torque Boosters is not a matter of convenience. This is a stupid comment, frankly. It provides a 40% duration increase to HO, your primary defensive ability based on run time/cooldown length. You raise helping teammates and playing objectively as important considerations for utility selection. Running HO for 40% longer with increased speed from Overrde means you basically get personal Predation in moving very quickly move between nodes for longer, chase down someone running ahead in Voidstar, running the Hutt Ball or reaching a teammate to peel. That's massive towards playing objectively/assisting your team. And I haven't even reiterated the personal benefit it offers! I've made the case that Overdrive is easily better than 'Covered Escape or 'Accelerated Reel' from an objectives perspective. Although AP is largely played from mid range, Overdrive may also assist your damage potential in closing space.

 

Well, that's 45s for every team member compared to just protecting yourself ~2 mins or less, worse if you get ignored or long stunned. And if they ignore you their damage output will still be delivered to one of your teammates so there's really no mitigation happening here, unless it is a 1v1 duel. On the other hand, with Sonic rebounder, there's a guaranteed reflect for each member affected.

 

It's not every team member, it's whoever your lucky enough to catch clumped for the AoE use. The reality is that people tunnel AP PT's hard, a lot of the time with disregard for any defensive CD's running. Again, I've acknowledged that Sonic Rebounder might a little useful for team ranked.

 

Thanks for your constructive criticism.

Edited by breaktobuild
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