completely imbalanced

[Ryuku-sama]

thank you for proving my point 35k ROFL ... stock yah...

 

that was EXACTLY my point /facepalm

 

35k?? That's nothing.. barely a wekk of work without even counting the dail/weekly or the intro.. And.. I said that you actually needed 5k to make a Novadive viable... Power Dive to T2.. You don,t need anything else.

[btbarrett]

35k?? That's nothing.. barely a wekk of work without even counting the dail/weekly or the intro.. And.. I said that you actually needed 5k to make a Novadive viable... Power Dive to T2.. You don,t need anything else.

 

6k. T1 Rocket Pods! Those are an absolute must for me. How else are you going to take a Sat that has turrets up?

[Ryuku-sama]

Yes speed. Because the only advantage that stock buld got is the engine boost which allows for longer and more speedbursts.

 

And??? What's your point?? Booster is decent.. Not the best choice but decent enough to not need to change it asap.

 

Most players don't have 8 hours a day to burn on GSF to get the upgrades that level the playing field. You might argue that without waiting queues of 15-30 minutes it wouldn't take so long but the long waiting times along with the often unbalanced matches are a fact and only stack the deck further against new players.

 

Read the second part.. with two matches a day, one can easily do 25k a week without any problem.

 

Once again you assume that the enemy is either doing nothing or beeing exeptionally stupid. I thought we had established that even a fully upgraded ship can't burst down an enemy in one salvo which is especialy true for even slightly upgraded Bombers.

 

Nope.. I'm assuming he is moving.. I have 15 sec to kill him.. And probably more if he is either a T2 bomber.. Just kill the drone and you can eat a lot of seeker before dying... And even if he goes evasive, I can follow him easily. If he goes offensive.. I can either break off or just tankand kill him depending on my shield/hull and his primary.

[Ryuku-sama]

6k. T1 Rocket Pods! Those are an absolute must for me. How else are you going to take a Sat that has turrets up?

 

Teamwork!!!! A stock (almost) Nova isn't made to take sats.. It's made to kill gunships and strikes.. Scouts if they line up.. Bombers if they aren't on the sat.

[Crazy-Wolf]

i dont understand how you can get 45k damage with 25% accuracy :/

 

edit: that is not a omg you suck comment btw, its a *** i get 30 - 40 % consistently and i dont get anywhere near that damage, and its not like im not trying to shoot people down, on average i get 3 - 4 kills sometimes barely even 2 :S)

 

I didn't take it that way, don't worry. 25% accuracy comes with my shi**y aiming in addition to the nature of the Rapid Fire Lasers. Most of the time I just hold down the button, hoping that a few of those shots hit.

 

The damage comes from the fact that the enemy was using a lot of strikes. To kill a Strike with RFLs you have to hit him a lot. And I didn't kill every opponent I engaged.

[Drakkolich]

Edit: Hey Drako I think I saw you briefly the other night on TEH.

 

Hey Ymris, there is a "Drako" on TEH pub side that isn't me. He is pretty good pilot too though.

 

My characters on the TEH are Drakolich, Drakolích, Renegade-three (A joke character to make fun of Renegade-one ) and Strikenight.

[Callly]

The point isn't Skill VS Gear... Yeah yeah some guys can be really good with stock ship but...there arent new player.

 

The point is when you have a team with Experienced+Geared player VS new player with stock one. And sometimes the experienced player are "Friendly" enough to form a wall of gunship...Thats totally discouraging for new player. They dont understand the game dont recognize the threats and etc. And maybe they have the abreged tooltip so they dont know the range of their guns(seriously what is the point with these tooltip?)

 

I think this game really need a better tutorial or pve mission with crappy reward but can be a first training to understand the range to recognize enemy ship. just giving them the time to learn something before the explosion? How many player did we lose in these so balanced 50/2 deathmatch?

[DamascusAdontise]

The point isn't Skill VS Gear... Yeah yeah some guys can be really good with stock ship but...there arent new player.

 

The point is when you have a team with Experienced+Geared player VS new player with stock one. And sometimes the experienced player are "Friendly" enough to form a wall of gunship...Thats totally discouraging for new player. They dont understand the game dont recognize the threats and etc. And maybe they have the abreged tooltip so they dont know the range of their guns(seriously what is the point with these tooltip?)

 

I think this game really need a better tutorial or pve mission with crappy reward but can be a first training to understand the range to recognize enemy ship. just giving them the time to learn something before the explosion? How many player did we lose in these so balanced 50/2 deathmatch?

 

Ill just repeat again (for the 1000000th time) the nature of this game does not usually allow for "balanced" matches. The amount of players queuing is directly related to the matchmakers ability to provide games with new players vs new players.

 

Sometimes / most of the time there are only enough players for 1-2 matches, and when that happens you get everyone who wants to play.

 

No player new or veteran has more or less of a right to play, so in the end its a mixed bag of skill. This is a harsh environment for new players but not impossible. There is literally nothing that can be done about this besides cross server (and thats not very likely to happen)

 

Every player had to go through this, every player had to take their licks to earn their gear. Peoples expectations should not be less than "it will be hard in the beginning, and less hard over time as you accrue experience and gear"

 

You are right though, the tutorial sucks and could be better. Many of us want that, and not just for new players but some of the veterans who never learned things either. I will always lobby for this! But to somehow ask BW to punish veterans / groups for wanting to play is ludicrous. Until certain things happen this is the way the game is, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Take it or leave it IMO (I know some will just quit, but would those people have really stuck with it anyway?)

 

Trial by fire

[Sinapus]

That being said, you cannot know who on the enemy team if any are actually on a premade. I often get accused of this when im soloing and happen to be on a team with other 5 shippers.

 

Surprisingly fast responses to threats, and otherwise very good coordination is a big hint.

 

Not that it actually matters, playing in a preform is nor a crime (I do it when I can)

 

I don't have voice chat, but I've been in matches where my side was obviously better than the other. Wasn't very fun. I prefer the ones where the score is within 10 pts for deathmatches and/or 100 points for the domination matches.

 

When one side can barely get 5 points in deathmatch or practically zero in domination, there's something wrong.

[Ryuku-sama]

Surprisingly fast responses to threats, and otherwise very good coordination is a big hint.

 

No. It just means the pilots know what they are doing. When you can decipher the flow and just know what the enemy is gonna do, where they will attack, responding correctly is easy.. No need for a premade there.

[Danalon]

No. It just means the pilots know what they are doing. When you can decipher the flow and just know what the enemy is gonna do, where they will attack, responding correctly is easy.. No need for a premade there.

 

Agreed. Most of the time I solo queue but whenever I join a premade of good pilots with teamspeak we don't talk much about the game because everyone already knows what to do.

 

 

Another point is GSF is a shooter. TTK generally is low and there isn't much CC in shooters and experienced/skilled people can and will dominate newer players. I prefer this sort of PvP because it's possible to get more kills and it feels rewarding if I manage to not die in critical situations. A piece of advice here: don't get too obsessed with managing not to die, because in most cases you will die anyway (not saying you should actively try to die, especially when defending a satellite).

 

Also, considering it's just a part of a bigger game that wasn't even meant to have something like GSF, it's well balanced with just strikes needing some buff. Complaints in forums are about bombers, gunships and scouts depending on what's the cool thing to complain about (mine/drone infested satellites; gunship walls; scouts doing damage). And most of those complaints about classes are rooted in an imbalance of two teams.

As an example: gunship walls. There are enough options to counter (own gunship wall, scouts with assigned targets, a mixture of gunships and scouts attacking the wall), however none of those is practical in a PuG simply because most PuGs lack communication, skill, gear or sometimes all of those.

[tommmsunb]

Once again you assume that the enemy is either doing nothing or beeing exeptionally stupid. I thought we had established that even a fully upgraded ship can't burst down an enemy in one salvo which is especialy true for an unpgraded scout against even slightly upgraded Bombers.

 

This is entirely inaccurate. I think you overestimate your average player and even most aces. In my battlescout I'm able to take down even really good gunship pilots before they notice I'm even shooting them, same story in my starguard. I haven't been able to do it in a novadive yet because I don't fly that ship but given the way you can build it I wouldn't be surprised if I could do it in a novadive as well. (Shayd back me up on this one)

 

If anything is imbalanced in this game it's bioware's amount of effort put into promoting it. Most of your problems would go away if more people played GSF as a seperate game which matchmaking actually worked in. I've noticed it working slightly better than it did recently, but most of that accounts to skipping over players like me when we've been in the queue for ages because it can't find a good match for us.

 

If you are saying things like "I can't make kills in a clarion like I can in a battlescout humbuggity boo" that would be the equivalent of a healer class complaining that they can't pull the same damage as a vigilance guardian. Completely and totally moronic.

Edited December 21, 2014 by tommmsunb

[AlrikFassbauer]

I've entirely stopped playing GSF. I just don't want to get farmed anymore.

 

The fear to get farmed is greter in me at this time than the prospect of PERHAPS winning a match.

And I HATE farming others as well.

 

My frustration tolerance is seemingly astonishingly low, I have found, that's why games like these aren't somehing for me.

I'm having HUGE fun in PvE nowadays, though.

 

One thing people also greatly underestimate is Psychology : People's personalöities : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=766253

In short : Some people (especially extroverts) are much better suited for playing GSF and ground PvP than others (introverts).

[Danalon]

I've entirely stopped playing GSF. I just don't want to get farmed anymore.

 

The fear to get farmed is greter in me at this time than the prospect of PERHAPS winning a match.

And I HATE farming others as well.

 

My frustration tolerance is seemingly astonishingly low, I have found, that's why games like these aren't somehing for me.

I'm having HUGE fun in PvE nowadays, though.

 

One thing people also greatly underestimate is Psychology : People's personalöities : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=766253

In short : Some people (especially extroverts) are much better suited for playing GSF and ground PvP than others (introverts).

 

Most shooters favor aggressive and active gameplay. If someone plays defensive and acts passive he will always have to fight with others on their conditions; they will decide when to start a fight and obviously they will only do that when the situation favors them. If a game would favor passiveness then it would be full of campers and for me that wouldn't be desireable.

 

I also get frustrated from time to time, for different reasons, and I can understand the potential for frustration a shooter offers. The question you need to ask yourself is: Is the amount of fun worth to endure the amount of frustration. There have been days when I only played for two dailies, lost all of the games, got frustrated and quit for the day. There have been days when I did dailies on 9-10 characters, won all games and I just kept playing. For me the fun well outweighs the frustration (usually).

[AlrikFassbauer]

The question you need to ask yourself is: Is the amount of fun worth to endure the amount of frustration.

 

Exactly this is the question.

 

And I decided for myself alone : No, the amount of frustration is too big for me. That's why I stopped.

 

There exists a concept of "dandelion people and orchid people". Me, I'm definitively an orchid.

This article should give you an idea : http://www.highlysensitivepeople.com/Orchid-and-Dandelion-Children.shtml

[Verain]

Well you stopped playing because you don't like pvp. I mean, that seems entirely reasonable to me.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Yes, that's right. At leaast to some degree.

 

When I came top SWTOR - my second MMO and my first one with PvP - I was too naive, thinking that I would have duels with equal skill. Equals among equals.

 

Nothing did I know about skill progression, skill progression, and high-level characters having more skills than low-level characters, yet both competing with one another on the same battlefield.

Nothing did I know of people trying to get an edge over others througfh all means possible, and I say ALL.

 

To me, all of these "hacking" accuses are nothing but hogwash (thanks for teaching me this new word ), but i still do believe that some people might do everything they can to get an edge over others. Dominate others.

 

However, I'm living in a different age. With 40 years, competition among players becomes almost meaningless to me. There is more in RL to do. I just do it for fun. I do not want to dominate someone else.

 

Maybe I'm too old, I don't really know why I don't get it, but maybe competition and the wish to domninate others is a thing of younger people ? I really have no idea.

 

Since I have been at the loosing end since my childhood, I could never grow into someone who found joy in dominating and in pwning others. Since I was always losing, and gained not much, I was never at the top - and that made an impression on me.

I assume that this is the reason why I just cannot understand this "will to win". Because every time I had a "will to win", someone else was better. This led to self-pity long, long ago. Which I didn't want to drown in, so I gave it up, but it really shines through more often than I want it to.

 

Now, my strategy is to simply monitor how good I am against others. When I lose, then I draw back. This creates so much LESS frustration and less self-pity as well. Plus, I can concentrate on other things again, things which I'm strong at in RL.

 

The weather is fine here. I thinkl I should go out for a walk, really, after 3 days of playing the Consular story.

The fresh air will be good.

[Biker]

well in my opinion there should be 2 bombers an 2 gunships max allowed in 1 battle as i have noticed lately its being swamped with them

[SithAceI]

Yes, that's right. At leaast to some degree.

 

When I came top SWTOR - my second MMO and my first one with PvP - I was too naive, thinking that I would have duels with equal skill. Equals among equals.

 

Nothing did I know about skill progression, skill progression, and high-level characters having more skills than low-level characters, yet both competing with one another on the same battlefield.

Nothing did I know of people trying to get an edge over others througfh all means possible, and I say ALL.

 

To me, all of these "hacking" accuses are nothing but hogwash (thanks for teaching me this new word ), but i still do believe that some people might do everything they can to get an edge over others. Dominate others.

 

However, I'm living in a different age. With 40 years, competition among players becomes almost meaningless to me. There is more in RL to do. I just do it for fun. I do not want to dominate someone else.

 

Maybe I'm too old, I don't really know why I don't get it, but maybe competition and the wish to domninate others is a thing of younger people ? I really have no idea.

 

Since I have been at the loosing end since my childhood, I could never grow into someone who found joy in dominating and in pwning others. Since I was always losing, and gained not much, I was never at the top - and that made an impression on me.

I assume that this is the reason why I just cannot understand this "will to win". Because every time I had a "will to win", someone else was better. This led to self-pity long, long ago. Which I didn't want to drown in, so I gave it up, but it really shines through more often than I want it to.

 

Now, my strategy is to simply monitor how good I am against others. When I lose, then I draw back. This creates so much LESS frustration and less self-pity as well. Plus, I can concentrate on other things again, things which I'm strong at in RL.

 

The weather is fine here. I thinkl I should go out for a walk, really, after 3 days of playing the Consular story.

The fresh air will be good.

 

As the great pilot Tommmsunb said of you in another thread... I also have Cancer because of your rantings!

 

Really?

 

I am 42 and age has nothing to do with it. If you ask around the community about me I do not always top the charts but no one is safe just letting me do what I do in a game.

 

As a great football coach has said "You play to win the game!"

 

That's what this is "a game" not some metaphor for life, or society, or whatever you are reading into this game.

 

I do give you the coveted "major award" of "Troll of The Year" award! No one does passive-aggressive quite like you Bra!

 

Stop just Stop dude.

Edited December 28, 2014 by SithAceI

[tommmsunb]

As the great pilot Tommmsunb said of you in another thread... I also have Cancer because of your rantings!

 

Really?

 

I am 42 and age has nothing to do with it. If you ask around the community about me I do not always top the charts but no one is safe just letting me do what I do in a game.

 

As a great football coach has said "You play to win the game!"

 

That's what this is "a game" not some metaphor for life, or society, or whatever you are reading into this game.

 

I do give you the coveted "major award" of "Troll of The Year" award! No one does passive-aggressive quite like you Bra!

 

Stop just Stop dude.

That first part made me feel way better than I actually am lol, thanks!

 

but I'd like to point out that this guy has written about 4000 words on these forums on this topic alone and none of it has made any sense. Also I think my favourite passage from him has to be "I'm studying geology in University so I have a background in science."

 

TIL Psychologists and Geologists are really the same thing.

Edited December 28, 2014 by tommmsunb

[tommmsunb]

Bringing this thread back on topic, recently Scrab and I made stock toons on Begeron Colony and in our first match our damages were 65k and 70k in stock strike fighters. So no, the games not as unbalanced as you may think, the difference in skill is just vast between the bottom and upper echelons. This of course is following the line of thought that a game is unbalanced when a match-up ignores skill to the point that it always favors one side. Edited December 28, 2014 by tommmsunb

[Biker]

Bringing this thread back on topic, recently Scrab and I made stock toons on Begeron Colony and in our first match our damages were 65k and 70k in stock strike fighters. So no, the games not as unbalanced as you may think, the difference in skill is just vast between the bottom and upper echelons. This of course is following the line of thought that a game is unbalanced when a match-up ignores skill to the point that it always favors one side.

 

ok yes skill has something to do with it but not as much as being put against a premade who swamp it with top specced gunships an bombers that lace whole area with mines so no it is not balanced at all , going into GSF for first time on an alt an being 1 shot killed every 2 secs has FUFF all to do with skill

[Ryuku-sama]

ok yes skill has something to do with it but not as much as being put against a premade who swamp it with top specced gunships an bombers that lace whole area with mines so no it is not balanced at all , going into GSF for first time on an alt an being 1 shot killed every 2 secs has FUFF all to do with skill

 

Dude. You're currently saying so much ******** no one here will think you're anything but a troll.

 

I'm an alt whore. Since GSF came out I have played on over 20 alts. I have flown stock more than you or about anyone here ever did. And what you're saying is just utter ********. Sure a Slug can almost 1-shot a Nova with QCS. But you should switch out of it after your first match. Otherwise, nothing can even come close to 1-shotting anything. Hell bombers or Sheeps are easier to deal with than aces battlescouts.

[MiaowZedong]

Dude. You're currently saying so much ******** no one here will think you're anything but a troll.

 

I'm an alt whore. Since GSF came out I have played on over 20 alts. I have flown stock more than you or about anyone here ever did. And what you're saying is just utter ********. Sure a Slug can almost 1-shot a Nova with QCS. But you should switch out of it after your first match. Otherwise, nothing can even come close to 1-shotting anything. Hell bombers or Sheeps are easier to deal with than aces battlescouts.

 

Anything is easier to deal with than ace battlescouts, tbh. Sometimes not much easier, but never harder.

 

Also, you're not quite correct. With DO in TDM, litteral one-shots are definitely a thing that happens. Also, slug railgun can crit and that's a one-shot to most common scout builds. With crits but without DO, BLC + rocket or BLC + feedback shield can destroy a scout in one volley (not one shot, but two simultaneous hits) as well. The combo with FS is obviously only simultaneous if the scout is shooting the GS while the GS is shooting back, but it definitely can create a one-volley kill. With DO+crit, you can see—rarely but it does happen—other builds get instagibbed as well.

 

Obviously, newbies often aren't aware of the first shot and have the illusion of a one-shot when that is not the case, but one shots can and do happen.

Edited December 29, 2014 by MiaowZedong

[Bearmug]

My suggestion is ramp up the defensive flying, even if you do nothing else all match just survive and annoy the **** out of people. You would be amazed how some simple flying tricks save your but and or make mince meat of your foes.

 

Among other advices that I got when starting were these (also the ones that helped the most:

- Don't play the scout you start with, use strike: it can take a LOT more damage before blowing up, which means a lot more experience before you need to respawn and rush back.

- If you can't do anything else put power to shields, fly around your satelite and annoy people that try to take it. Don't try to damage them (unless there is an oportunity), just fly closely around the satelite and keep them busy till help comes. Unless there is a good gunship nearby, then you're screwed .

- Don't barrel roll/retro thruster/kologarn turn yourself into satelite. It hurts.

 

I'm still not very good, but I am a lot better at annoying people.