Lvl 60 hm Fp's too hard?

[NateSmuggler]

is it just me, or are the Lvl 60 hm Fp's impossible to beat? I've healed all levels in this game up till this point including hm ops.... But I have done 4 hm Fp's and not gotten past the 1st boss 1 time!!!!! Anyone else having the same problem? The damage is so fast and so much. Tanks are going down in 4 moves, and the aoe is impossible to keep up with. Is it just me?

[psandak]

I'll be honest that I have yet to play them but this is a VERY common issue that is created by the players. Here's the scenario:

 

1. players kick butt in older content because they are overgeared and have intimate knowledge of mechanics
   
2. players go into new content assuming they will kick butt
   
3. players fail to kick butt
   
4. players gripe about content being too hard.
   

 

I am NOT saying this is your fault or that you are bad. What I am saying is that GROUPS take for granted that the new HMFPs are designed to be difficult in level appropriate gear. GROUPS cannot just rush in and expect to win.

 

• CCs must be used and abided by in trash pulls (CC is available for a reason. Players with CC need to mark targets and CC them. And then the group MUST not wake up the CCed mobs until the tank is ready)
  
• wipes will happen on boss fights (use them to LEARN the encounter; I remember when the CZ HMFPs came out and my entire group had never run them yet. This was HM CCM. Each boss, we wiped on once and beat it the second time because we were observant and figured out what had to be done. We also took our time discussing the mechanics in case not everyone saw everything)
  
• rage quitting and/or rage kicking helps no one (these are new FPs with new bosses and new mechanics and the only way to learn them is to struggle a little)
  

 

All that being said, early access is the new beta testing. For all I know the content is too hard to complete successfully and the devs are already working to nerf it.

Edited December 9, 2014 by psandak

[ImanolValentine]

I have done the four HM FPs. They are REALLY hard. And THAT is what good players seek. A challenge. I have only failed twice (the rest I've wiped many times), but I can ensure they are perfectly doable. You only have to find out the tacts and give your best. A real challenge. What did you want? I can almost solo Eternity Vault, 55 hm fps are no challenge (I can hardly remember my last wipe)... Now I really enjoy myself that I have to suffer to make it. Enjoy it too

[Qvasar]

Honestly, I'm sorry to say, but... it's just you. The new HMs are no harder than the 5 HMs when they came out. Bonus bosses aside, they are pretty easy,

[Cidgarrillo]

The only fp which was unbalanced hard was Lost Island HM and even that fp was doable pre-nerf.

 

The new fps are fine now. They just have more mechanics than czerka fps hms but still, they have the same difficulty and mechanics fps used to have.

[Queldallas]

lul wut?

 

Jedi Planet

1: Drop Void on Adds, kill Adds, dont stay in void (duh?)

2: dps boss, kill adds, dps boss, kill ads, use medkit or dispell(get dispelled) if u have the debuff

3: DPS Boss, dps Datacron if active, dont stay in void(duh?)

Bonus : just kill and heal, stay with back to the tank trap thingi (NOT the tree)

 

Korri

1: DPS Boss, kill Adds

2: dont stay in Voids, group dmg when he hits 30% or so, just heal, stay spread out to dodge the green laser

3: kill stun adds, avoid bomb adds, keep group over 50% hp if bad geared

Bonus : just kill him?

 

Manaan

1: DPS droid 1 till loose shield, dps droid 2 till loose shield, dps boss - repeat, dodge red ****, stay spread

2: stack on boss till the voids get big => run out, kill adds, dont flood the room?

3: pull boss and adds into fire (whole duration is best) and dps him, if u ahve dmg prob let the tank swap in dmg stance maybe

Bonus : a bit more tricky, stay together, move together as late as possible (stay back in the room), if 3 spawn, let s/o with def cd (sorc bubble or sorc panic bubble work fine) take 1 out (all 3 with sorc panic bubble)

 

Rakata

1: dps rancor, move out of fire (dispell or get dispelled if rooted) dps boss

2: dps boss, kill adds, dont stay in voids (duhhhhh?)

3: dps laser dude, stay spread...dunno seems to do nothing of importance

Bonus: stay all in melee range to the boss, move out if he casts his thing and go back in if channel less then 1s, dps adds then boss

 

If u encounter problems with trash cc some mobs, shield/HoT early, kill silver -> gold -> champ, tell tank to use def cd IF needed, get 186 gear from fleet if u have worse and can afford it, use aggro reset if needed, use medpack if needed.

 

in my opinion the HMs are a bit too easy, the bosses dont really do much but i can understand BWs approach cuz not everybody is a hc raider and HMs shoud be doable with casual guys too if the use their brain a bit

 

sry 4 my bad english...too late to concentrate hope that helps

[mrkarate]

I just tried to run two PUGs as a Guardian tank... Korriban and Tython. The lag in Tython made me bow out apologetically and Korriban.. Well we had a sentinal, a commando, and a scoundrel heals all in FULL yavin basic gear and we could not even down the first boss without out 2 wipes from me as the tank in full yavin gear with cooldowns being popped. I died when the adds decided to one shot me (possible bug.. maybe.. I wasn't really taking that much damage from first boss but then I went from 90% to 0% in a blink). The droid boss.... We tried valiantly for 5 wipes and could not find a strategy to beat him. Call us inept if you want, but we tried. It's been a week and sadly, Dulfy/Youtube/ or my genie in a bottle has yet to post walkthrough guide on the mechanics of HM boss fights. At least my Google search for "hardmode korriban/tython/rakata/manaan" has come up dry.

I'm not saying that the fights are hard, rather a challenge which I am cool with but to a point. To be honest I love the challenge that this game throws at me in the form of MOB placement and the difficulty is evenly paced through story mode. But no one likes wiping on a boss 5 times. More importantly, no one who is geared in the best gear they can get presently without farming weeks worth of... well weeklies for elite coms needs to be wiping in hardmode. If 5 people walk into a "hardmode" FP each in full 186 gear, then there should not be a wipe... Period. Or Bioware needs to make a level 60 FPs that properly "gears" players for hard modes... I mean that's what WoW did right? You had a standard instance... Then you had Heroics. But in order to do Heroics you had to have a certain gear requirement that could really only be met through a combination of doing standard instances and rep grinding right? So if I get the best gear available in standard instances and rep grinding, then heroics/hardmodes should not be so bad right? Is the pacing off or is it just me? I just don't want to see this game turn into another Age of Conan where only elitist jerks play. (Which btw... To shut up the haters... Age of Conan, a F2P game of a pretty reputable franchise, has been going strong for 8 years on a shoe string budget and even less subscribers than 1/3 of SWTOR.... I don't think SWTOR is gonna die anytime soon.....).

[Ruskaeth]

Honestly, I'm sorry to say, but... it's just you. The new HMs are no harder than the 5 HMs when they came out. Bonus bosses aside, they are pretty easy,

 

About those bonus bosses...I bet two basic commendations motivates people to do them.

[nightsproull]

If the group isn't geared out in 186 basics, then you're probably going to struggle.

 

Too many people are used to hitting 55 with their junk gear, and then getting carried through HM flashpoints for easy elite comms. Since hardly anyone has elite or ultimate gear yet, no one can carry.

 

Pro-tip to any new 60 who hasn't gotten most of their 186 basics: keep doing dailies and don't ask a non-guild group to carry you through a HM fp. A dead giveaway is having less than 40k hp.

[ImanolValentine]

I just tried to run two PUGs as a Guardian tank... Korriban and Tython. The lag in Tython made me bow out apologetically and Korriban.. Well we had a sentinal, a commando, and a scoundrel heals all in FULL yavin basic gear and we could not even down the first boss without out 2 wipes from me as the tank in full yavin gear with cooldowns being popped. I died when the adds decided to one shot me (possible bug.. maybe.. I wasn't really taking that much damage from first boss but then I went from 90% to 0% in a blink). The droid boss.... We tried valiantly for 5 wipes and could not find a strategy to beat him. Call us inept if you want, but we tried. It's been a week and sadly, Dulfy/Youtube/ or my genie in a bottle has yet to post walkthrough guide on the mechanics of HM boss fights. At least my Google search for "hardmode korriban/tython/rakata/manaan" has come up dry.

I'm not saying that the fights are hard, rather a challenge which I am cool with but to a point. To be honest I love the challenge that this game throws at me in the form of MOB placement and the difficulty is evenly paced through story mode. But no one likes wiping on a boss 5 times. More importantly, no one who is geared in the best gear they can get presently without farming weeks worth of... well weeklies for elite coms needs to be wiping in hardmode. If 5 people walk into a "hardmode" FP each in full 186 gear, then there should not be a wipe... Period. Or Bioware needs to make a level 60 FPs that properly "gears" players for hard modes... I mean that's what WoW did right? You had a standard instance... Then you had Heroics. But in order to do Heroics you had to have a certain gear requirement that could really only be met through a combination of doing standard instances and rep grinding right? So if I get the best gear available in standard instances and rep grinding, then heroics/hardmodes should not be so bad right? Is the pacing off or is it just me? I just don't want to see this game turn into another Age of Conan where only elitist jerks play. (Which btw... To shut up the haters... Age of Conan, a F2P game of a pretty reputable franchise, has been going strong for 8 years on a shoe string budget and even less subscribers than 1/3 of SWTOR.... I don't think SWTOR is gonna die anytime soon.....).

 

Korri's first boss has an insta-kill. To avoid it you have to make sure you are between two jails, so that when he pushes you you don't touch any jail. Touch them and you're dead (I got killed that way the first time, but had time to come back from med and save the others). "Defeated Scaurgy with Electricity (0 damage)" "Defeated by Scaurgy with Electricity (0 damage)". No big deal.

[NateSmuggler]

I am in full 186 gear (Ty rollover comm's) minus 1 implant Lvl 178. The people I've gone with are in 178 mainly. I am a Operative healer. Is it that my operative heals are that bad? A ton of people I've healed with have abandoned the operative in 3.0 and I feel they were over exaggerated the nerds. But could it be that the Op healer is the issue? I haven't seen a big healing reduction just energy. I've tried 2 more times since this post and again... 2 wipes on first boss with multiple tries. I asked them and they said my healing was "great" and "best they have seen" we're the feedbacks I've gotten due to the sheer amount of heals I was able to put out... But still no success

[ImanolValentine]

If mechs fail, you won't survive, stuck it in your head. You may be doing awesome heal, but if dps or tank fail, you're doomed. This patch was designed to give more importance to teamwork.

[Darth-Mailman]

The HM FP's are fine as they are.

 

Once a group has the mechanics down, they are actually pretty easy..

 

I agree though that doing these with pugs with no means of communication can be a real pain..

[Keypek]

Having some fights in the game everyone can't just faceroll is very nice. Keep them hard. In fact, I wish they'd implement some nightmare FPs.

[TrigPt]

I remember when the HM55 first came out and for the first couple of weeks PUG groups were wiping 3-10 on each run through. But as people learned them and got better geared they naturally became easier. A month after they launched wipes became the exception instead of the rule. Same will happen with these.

 

One thing I will add is that the gap between the Tactical's and the new HM is so wide difficulty wise that I wish they'd left the old 55HM in a separate group finder queue so people could still do something in between. Also tough to do the Czerka weekly now since 60's have no option to queue for the flashpoints anymore

Edited December 9, 2014 by TrigPt

[ImanolValentine]

Totally true the CZ thing. I mean, it can be soloed... more or less. But for a tank the sandstorm boss is real hard, if the companion gets killed boss will enter enrage. I'm still looking for a group for meltdown. That was almost a week ago.

[Excise]

psandak basically nailed it, but essentially it is hard only because it is new. It will get easier as people gear up and learn what to do. 2.0 was the same. That Asteroid Beast on Hammer Station gave me heart palpitations those first few times.

 

A month from now it'll be back to normal.

[BrianDavion]

There are a few issues I have in my experiance thus far that BW needs to address.

 

First of all the Bonus Boss awards CAN'T be right. 2 basic comms? no one's going to bother with that. if the rewards back in the 55 HMs where too good I understand that, but for god's sake BW have him drop elite comms at least.

 

Secondly, the final boss fight in Rakata Prime was annoying not because we didn't have the mechanics down, but because Jakaro would be hit with the circle and get someone killed. that's easy eneugh to fix though, just remove the useless ally from the HM.

[DuEldrvarya]

So... I feel like I am a fairly decent healer, as far as having been able to do the now defunct df and dp num cycles, but I will confess the 60 hms have given me some interesting experiences.

 

The first one I did (on my operative) was legacy of the rakata and perhaps it was because we really weren't being serious about ccs or whatever, but that was definitely the hardest healing I had done in this new tier and since prenerf tyrans. Most (trash) pulls were over 4k ehps and that bonus boss lol... We all were new to it and kinda ignored the mechanic apparently.( We assumed the mechanic was a heal check) so that fight I ended at 5200 ehps breathing really heavily.

 

With that in mind however I have done numerous hm 60s since then and none have been remotely difficult in comparison so it makes me think that one fp we were doing something wrong.

 

Also every spec in the game now has a number of defensive abilities and utilities, if you find yourself having issues, I would highly recommend figuring out the best way to use them.

 

Finally I must say the first boss in the assault on tython hm has some mega major lag stuttering going on which makes him way harder that he would be if you could actually count on the game performing up to scratch.

 

Edit: we also didn't know the blue circle mechanic on the last boss of legacy of the rakata untill we had lost two players and then that stupid wookee was getting us picked off and we killed it first try only due to a beautiful save / solo kill by our sniper while both he and the npc had blue circle.

Edited December 9, 2014 by DuEldrvarya

[mikegrijsen]

Totally true the CZ thing. I mean, it can be soloed... more or less. But for a tank the sandstorm boss is real hard, if the companion gets killed boss will enter enrage. I'm still looking for a group for meltdown. That was almost a week ago.

I will duo them with you, name is Vivito.

[Rithoma]

psandak basically nailed it, but essentially it is hard only because it is new. It will get easier as people gear up and learn what to do. 2.0 was the same. That Asteroid Beast on Hammer Station gave me heart palpitations those first few times.

 

A month from now it'll be back to normal.

 

^This. Right now everybody has the lowest gear possible to run these flashpoints. When everybody is geared in 192 and higher the flashpoints will be much easier, because the higher gear means more damage mitigation, larger hp pools as well as more healing power. At the moment it is not really the mechanics that make them difficult, but the incoming damage is very high. It will normalize in a few weeks.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Rithoma

[AlternateID]

The biggest issues for me as a tank from mostly old HM fps was the current spread on the mobs combined with random dps jumping into all directions. Line of sight the majority of the mobs combined with area dps (Which has been increased for most classes in 3.0 - Probably for this reason?) Also theres quite a few mobs with high hitting Elemental/Internal damage (Primarily by skills so stunning/asking dps to intterupt will help)

 

Give your tank the time to line of sight the larger groups so that you can area stun/dps them down as mobs hit harder then before even if your aug'd your not in full OP gear anymore. (Play like your half naked) Also if you know tacts, Still inform the entire group at each boss since theres loads of people who havent even finished one.

 

In general tanking hurts as **** momentarily so cut them some slack in how much damage they take. Its all aimed towards when your fully auged however since its 14 x 50+ stats that you get in your defensive aspects later on.

 

In short the road to succes in HM FPs

- Line of sight the mobs to stack up for area stuns (Death from above Carbonize etc)

- Tell dps to intterupt/stun mobs they are burning (The infinite army riflemans Fire bomb in Rakata as an example.)

- Do a ready check if you think your healer is touching themselves as a few moments of bad luck will kill you as a new tank.

- Inform people about tacts before each new boss or ask if someone already knows them.

- Another good one tell the dps to focus the low health targets first. All mobs seem to hit like a truck but some dps seem to think burning the bigger guy is prio #1

 

Good luck.

[ImanolValentine]

I will duo them with you, name is Vivito.

 

Great! I guess Progenitor imp side, isn't it?

[BrittneyNB]

I am in full 186 gear (Ty rollover comm's) minus 1 implant Lvl 178. The people I've gone with are in 178 mainly. I am a Operative healer. Is it that my operative heals are that bad? A ton of people I've healed with have abandoned the operative in 3.0 and I feel they were over exaggerated the nerds. But could it be that the Op healer is the issue? I haven't seen a big healing reduction just energy. I've tried 2 more times since this post and again... 2 wipes on first boss with multiple tries. I asked them and they said my healing was "great" and "best they have seen" we're the feedbacks I've gotten due to the sheer amount of heals I was able to put out... But still no success

 

I co-main a merc and op healer. The op nerfs were greatly exaggerated imo. The biggest changes are heat management, we now have to throw in diagnostic scan every now and then, which isn't even a horrible heal considering is regenerates energy. My sorc friends were blindsided by those changes. The puddle was nerfed big time (400 per tick O.O, 700 with crit), and there big heal crits for 9k max (186 gear with augments). It costs little energy and has no cd making it spammable, maybe it is supposed to balance out? I used to be so jealous when they would crit for 13k, now my Merc crits for 14k, 15k with buffs

 

But back on topic, I doubt it is your healing that is the problem. As others have mentioned the new mechanics really focus on teamwork, and it is hard to "heal through stupid" when nobody is over geared to compensate.

[a-madman]

Ello, Sorry one thingy,

 

Are they called easy mode flashpoint, NO!

 

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