Survivability of vanguard in pvp

[dragospastiu]

Hey,

Since 3.0 dropped, I've noticed a dramatic decrease in survivability for my tactics vanguard. Even with all my defensive cool downs enabled, I can no longer survive more then 3-4 seconds under focused fire.

And i'm not even sure the perk that grants 30% damage reduction while stunned works properly, I get melted by 2 guys, who of course feel the need to stun me.

Not whining here, just trying to understand what's going on. I don't even have time to call for help if more then one guy comes while I defend a turret. This was not the case before 3.0, when with reactive shield and adrenaline rush on I could survive at least 10 seconds while help came from team.

I noticed mobs hit harder too, even 5 levels below me, but it doesn't bother me that much since I only PVE while bored; but PVP is another issue.

Anyone else noticed this and can offer some insight?

I know tactics vanguard hits hard, but since I don't stay alive long enough to do damage. it's all the same.

Any input is appreciated.

[Kooziejr]

I said this will be an issue and I still believe it will be for VG DPS. regardless of dmg buffs or whatnot. VG/PT has sweet FA survivability and the best cooldown was the 30% dmg reduction on self heal. Since that is no longer tied to the reasonable DPS tree you will not see many VG/PT in solo ranked as a dps - just my opinion. Have been proved wrong before. In WZ its probably worse with such a long cooldown on a survivability cooldown with no dmg reduction tied to it. If the AoE smash meta comes back which there is a small turn to then AP will be king. Without an AoE meta VG dps will be very average in PvP as it will be the preverbial glass cannon.

[ishbindeinvater]

Glass cannon? You are exaggerating "a bit"

 

It's rather easy to escape a situation with the AP PT. HO, carbonize, stun, kolto overload, energy shield, (knock down grenade). And why should a dps not go fast down when focused? PT is dealing insane burst while wearing heavy armor.

 

The only REAL glass cannon is the marauder.

 

Edit: I forgot to mention inherent 30% aoe damage reduction and 30% stun damage reduction, and 30% defense increase. What a glass canon, lol

 

Edit2: you can spec another 35% while stunned heal what does a lot of damage.... While stunned. And you can have a second stun break with klto overload. Plz explain glass to me.

Edited December 7, 2014 by ishbindeinvater

[TACeMossie]

Without an AoE meta VG dps will be very average in PvP as it will be the preverbial glass cannon.

 

I think you mean Paper Nuke

[dragospastiu]

If I want to escape a situation, I play sage, with his bubble.

Like I said, I feel the perk that gives damage reduction while stunned doesn't work at all, on the contrary, I die faster while stunned. Wouldn't surprise me if the perk does the exact opposite of what it says it does.

For the so called burst... please, if you don't survive long enough to deliver it, whatever.

The only issue I have is that before 3.0 I was able to defend an objective long enough until help came, now even with adrenaline rush on and reflective shiled on I melt in like 2 globals.

[Gigabolt]

i think people need to consider gear disparity before saying its glass cannon.

 

A jug is definately not made of glass. But i have been in warzones where I literally was killed in three globals. Then i had some where I literally didnt even need ot pop a defensive cd. Somethign weird going on there. When everyone has same gear then we can see survivability.

[Recamier]

I noticed mobs hit harder too, even 5 levels below me, but it doesn't bother me that much since I only PVE while bored; but PVP is another issue.

Anyone else noticed this and can offer some insight?

 

You must be really under-geared. I rip through Golds/Silvers on Yavin 4 and don't stop to heal up afterwards. I rarely finish a pve pull with less than 95% health, but I did notice a bunch of lvl60s in pvp still have 156 & 162 level gear on in WZs this week. I don't know how they hit 60 without getting the 178 blues, but I'm pretty sure it explains why they are getting taco'd in 4 globals.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Recamier

[flem]

I did notice a bunch of lvl60s in pvp still have 156 & 162 level gear on in WZs this week. I don't know how they hit 60 without getting the 178 blues, but I'm pretty sure it explains why they are getting taco'd in 4 globals.

The expertise penalty you're taking makes their gear better in the WZ than yours.

[Recamier]

The expertise penalty you're taking makes their gear better in the WZ than yours.

 

I'm pretty sure they do not have any expertise considering how fast they are going down. A lot of 60s I've inspected are wearing Oricon quest gear, which I find odd since you get better gear from quests.

[flem]

Bolster gives you near-full expertise as long as your gear isn't over the target bolster point (which is generally a touch below the current cheap PvP set, currently 168). So wearing 156/162 is actually pretty wise.

[dragospastiu]

Tried a few matches tonight before nerd raging and quit.

My gear is full brutalizer with aim augments, and I'm still 55 since I didn't buy the xp and not planning to support this joke of a game anymore, so I don't think its a gear issue.

I might be retarded and it might be a L2P issue on my part, but I was doing just fine before 3.0.

Now I feel that just being on a *********** pvp field drains my health away, that's how fast I die in pvp.

I don't see many vanguards/PT's responding to this thread so I must be retraded, and that being the case I will retire and save myself the headaches.

 

Thank you all for the input.

[Recamier]

Bolster gives you near-full expertise as long as your gear isn't over the target bolster point (which is generally a touch below the current cheap PvP set, currently 168). So wearing 156/162 is actually pretty wise.

 

I'm not really sure what to say then, because I'm not having any survivability problems and other people are. You'll note that the OP is saying that (s)he is taking too much damage from pve mobs that are 5 levels below his/her level. Considering that Yavin 4 is a cakewalk in the 168 greens & 178 blues you get from quests, the problem is not the class or the patch.

 

Also, the bolster formula changed. So, I wouldn't be surprised if what worked on paper in 2.x is completely different in 3.0. My personal experience in the lvl60 bracket this weekend is that there is a big discrepancy in stats. I have over 45K health (in AP spec/gear) and other people on my team have 33K. That is the type of stat gap you can't overcome. You are going to get turned into salsa with 33K health in a lvl60 WZ.

[Recamier]

Tried a few matches tonight before nerd raging and quit.

My gear is full brutalizer with aim augments, and I'm still 55 since I didn't buy the xp and not planning to support this joke of a game anymore, so I don't think its a gear issue.

I might be retarded and it might be a L2P issue on my part, but I was doing just fine before 3.0.

Now I feel that just being on a *********** pvp field drains my health away, that's how fast I die in pvp.

I don't see many vanguards/PT's responding to this thread so I must be retraded, and that being the case I will retire and save myself the headaches.

 

Thank you all for the input.

 

OK, You didn't say you were still 55. So my apologizes for focusing on lvl60. Not sure about the 30-59 bracket since I went straight to leveling.

[Ottoattack]

I have not made it to lvl 60, but so far from playing in WZ with and against PTs (and there is way too many of them), AP survivability does not seem bad at all. The super increase in mobility and increase in range has defiantly resulted in increased suvivability. Add to that TTK has dropped a bit and there is a slight increase in armor lvls, AP is having a surge.

 

As for pyro... lower range less front damage, aoe channel and has less survivability than before. Devs dropped the ball hard here.

[dragospastiu]

That's odd, all I see in warzones is sorcs and assassins and the lone vanguard (me!)

Sure, on paper all those tools sound good, but wait until you actualy play a vanguard and die before you even have time to react.

Ah well, time to move on.

[KainrycKarr]

Stick it out. Once you hit 60, and get the new gear, you will do just fine. The 30-59 bracket is an absolute cluster**** at the moment, gear or no gear.

[Nightkin]

Considering i as a merc healer can survive somewhat well against 2 dps but i get wrecked by a single AP powertech and to add insult to injury, you as a PT have better defensive cooldowns then i do.

 

My wound ----> vVvVvVv <------ ;;;;;;;;;; Your salt (and thermals and railshots and energy blasts bonanza)

[benovide]

Considering i as a merc healer can survive somewhat well against 2 dps but i get wrecked by a single AP powertech and to add insult to injury, you as a PT have better defensive cooldowns then i do.

 

My wound ----> vVvVvVv <------ ;;;;;;;;;; Your salt (and thermals and railshots and energy blasts bonanza)

 

I'm with this dude ^^^^^ PT by far can take things better.

[Capote]

Thing is we don't have reaction tools. I have been playing soloQ on my 60 (full geared) and every team uses the "focus the PT" strategy, which is understandable since we have a lot of burst damage, but still, there is not much I can do to react to things.

 

I mean, in theory you have "30% this, 30% that, 30% w/e else" but when actually playing against skilled people the best you can actually do is use hold the line to kite the melees as much as possible and be smart with your cc breaks (assuming you got the break on kolto overload). The incorrect uses of our CCs (both stuns and grenade) can harm the team a lot (it's idiotic to fill your enemy's resolve just to defend yourself).

 

What I noticed is that we (and marauders, perhaps) became the priority target instead of sorcs (which, again, got buffed), but I wouldn't say we are glass cannons. Honestly, mercs are on a worse position when it comes to squishness.

 

Now, of course that I'm saying all this based on ranked gameplay. In regs we can easily survive and top DPS (as pretty much any other class if you are good enough to do it).

[DarkNecroCrusher]

Go play a combat sent/carnage mara and you will know what is a real glass cannon and what is a real pain in the a** Edited December 8, 2014 by DarkNecroCrusher

[benovide]

Thing is we don't have reaction tools. I have been playing soloQ on my 60 (full geared) and every team uses the "focus the PT" strategy, which is understandable since we have a lot of burst damage, but still, there is not much I can do to react to things.

 

I mean, in theory you have "30% this, 30% that, 30% w/e else" but when actually playing against skilled people the best you can actually do is use hold the line to kite the melees as much as possible and be smart with your cc breaks (assuming you got the break on kolto overload). The incorrect uses of our CCs (both stuns and grenade) can harm the team a lot (it's idiotic to fill your enemy's resolve just to defend yourself).

 

What I noticed is that we (and marauders, perhaps) became the priority target instead of sorcs (which, again, got buffed), but I wouldn't say we are glass cannons. Honestly, mercs are on a worse position when it comes to squishness.

 

Now, of course that I'm saying all this based on ranked gameplay. In regs we can easily survive and top DPS (as pretty much any other class if you are good enough to do it).

 

If it makes you feel any better, you're playing by far the biggest "easy button" class in the game.

Sorcs buffs are near garbage, they ruined the healing tree for them.

And no, if the top three players of a match aren't vanguards or powertechs, you need to step up your game.

Semi-decent powertech/vanguards can make top of game stats easily, averaging 650-830k Damage per game, with 200k protection easily.

 

That's if ST spec, AP specs can do substantially higher like Grey Horse from Bastian, who averages 1.2mil damage with 350k protection anytime I queue up with him. (How he gets protection being AP spec? You're asking the wrong dude, every huttball he ends with at least 320k protection points)

 

I'm dominantly a Sorc Lightening Spec, and quite frankly, the most easily class in-game I play is my Powertech. My lowest typical is 730kDPS with 130k protection. That's about average, the vanguard guild I've gone against time to time even when soloqueueing (automatic loss to come) those guys average 970k DPS each game, top of players each game, with 400-500k protection.

 

Their guild is exclusively trooper classes only, and dominantly are vanguards, the few commando players they do have are astonishingly good as well. But overall, you should look into what you're doing, because PT/VG are by far the easiest class to play.

 

Other note, even their commandos end each game they are in with a min of 820k damage, and 210k heals.

Edited December 8, 2014 by benovide

[Zoom_VI]

Sorcs buffs are near garbage

Sorcs are one of the most potent classes in the game right now.

And no, if the top three players of a match aren't Sorcerors or Sages, you need to step up your game.

Fixed

Semi-decent powertech/vanguards can make top of game stats easily, averaging 650-830k Damage per game, with 200k protection easily.

You realize at level 60, 650k damage is considered mediocre for most classes right?

 

That's if ST spec, AP specs can do substantially higher like Grey Horse from Bastian, who averages 1.2mil damage with 350k protection anytime I queue up with him. (How he gets protection being AP spec? You're asking the wrong dude, every huttball he ends with at least 320k protection points)

Again, such low standards. Pulling a mil in a full length match at level 60 is normal for anyone who is competent. Also you should take a look at sorcs who can easily post 1.4 mil+ in lightning in full length 60 matches.

 

I'm dominantly a Sorc Lightening Spec, and quite frankly, the most easily class in-game I play is my Powertech.

Then you should have zero issues dealing with powertechs, ever.

[benovide]

Sorcs are one of the most potent classes in the game right now.

 

Fixed

 

You realize at level 60, 650k damage is considered mediocre for most classes right?

 

 

Again, such low standards. Pulling a mil in a full length match at level 60 is normal for anyone who is competent. Also you should take a look at sorcs who can easily post 1.4 mil+ in lightning in full length 60 matches.

 

Then you should have zero issues dealing with powertechs, ever.

 

You do know that majority of pubs get nowhere near 500k right?

 

You do know that if you know how to play VG/Powertech you can interrupt and disrupt every hard cast, and in general, practically any attack a Sorc has?

 

Lightening spec is easy as hell to counter, "most potent"? really? If I can wipe three sorcs alone in my PT, that tells me they are crappy as hell for PVP

Edited December 8, 2014 by benovide

[Zoom_VI]

You do know that majority of pubs get nowhere near 500k right?

I'm sorry? I don't speak scrub

 

You do know that if you know how to play VG/Powertech you can interrupt and disrupt every hard cast, and in general, practically any attack a Sorc has?

You realize having a 4m range interrupt is useless against a class that can cast.

 

Lightening spec is easy as hell to counter, "most potent"? really? If I can wipe three sorcs alone in my PT, that tells me they are crappy as hell for PVP

 

go troll the sorc forums please

[benovide]

I'm sorry? I don't speak scrub

 

 

You realize having a 4m range interrupt is useless against a class that can cast.

 

 

 

go troll the sorc forums please

 

L2P Sorc, you might actually learn how to counter them.