Pherdnut Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 All disciplines for the class need a rework and the whole "glass cannon" for both merc and sniper needs to be dropped..this games pvp and population..ie tanks/heals to dps does not support it; or I should say the matchmaking does not support classes that require support and that is total B.S. and should be addressed. I don't mind being the least survivable. I just don't think it makes sense for Sorcs to feel like Juggernauts by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pherdnut Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Also could we sticky this until something's actually done about it? I'd hate for other people to sink as much time into a slinger as I have, only to discover that it's actually considered rude to solo queue a slinger in ranked. It's really that pathetic at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton_RUS Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Sniper need this changes- yes, but he need nerf of Diversion also. Because this is op ability vs mdd, when mdd party can't attack your party so long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton_RUS Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) You scared of facing Snipers that will have a fighting chance again and have the ability to survive when you roflstomp them? The entire class and all its disciplines/utlities can need a major patch and it's about time that it happens. They can't patch Sorc, Sin, PT and Jugg every month until the game shuts down... At some point in the future they will need to shift their attention to Snipers and Mercs. Or else there will be only a handful of players left that still play Sniper as their main... btw it's almost be like that already. What with jugger? All people focus jugger in the 1st moment, because you need only 110k damage and jugger is dead. This class can't kite, he don't have stealth or teleport and he don't have *********** Diversion. Just try playing for your jugger vs same doters or snipers. You have good vitality but you can't deal damage vs this *********** safe with accuracy reduction. Edited July 2, 2015 by Anton_RUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kvandertulip Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Sniper need this changes- yes, but he need nerf of Diversion also. Because this is op ability vs mdd, when mdd party can't attack your party so long time. This is such a non-issue. All melee have to do is step outside the circle. Or just ignore it and have a 50/50 chance of hitting through it. When you compare this to Obfuscate, Diversion is inferior. If anything they should take it off the GCD. The only class it is op against is other snipers and gunslingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton_RUS Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) This is such a non-issue. All melee have to do is step outside the circle. Or just ignore it and have a 50/50 chance of hitting through it. When you compare this to Obfuscate, Diversion is inferior. If anything they should take it off the GCD. The only class it is op against is other snipers and gunslingers. Obfuscate can use only to 1 target, but Diversion - on all team and when your team have 3 mdds - you can't win vs sniper party. As you know - mdd must be in 4 metres from his target. And as you know - you need focus. When mdds stacked on 1 target - sniper use Diversion and it's 100% victory for sniper team. it is not a fantasy, it is a reality. Same with dot classes but it's another history. Edited July 2, 2015 by Anton_RUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 This is such a non-issue. All melee have to do is step outside the circle. Or just ignore it and have a 50/50 chance of hitting through it. When you compare this to Obfuscate, Diversion is inferior. If anything they should take it off the GCD. The only class it is op against is other snipers and gunslingers. The difference here is obfuscate doesn't affect tech and force attacks, Diversion does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 To be honest, the only time I notice diversion even do anything or have any affect on the outcome of the battle is if I cast it on another sniper/slinger. I drop it on myself all the time while playing fodder for melee and it seems to make no difference whatsoever. Kinda like heal debuffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I seem to notice heal debuffs when playing DF/Vir. Seems to help the pace of DoTs against HoTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capote Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) Just my 2cents here, but I feel like the problem is not our lack of tools for surv, it's the fact that every damn melee class is immune to everything we do. I mean, hitting a leg shot may be harder than winning the lottery, same goes for the slow effects (from diversion, dots or series of shots) and/or cover pulse most of the times. If you know other classes and wait for the immunities to wear off you are already dead. Diversion is completely useless on its actual state. We pretty much rely on our only hard stun (since everyone breaks flash bang anyway) and the chance to kite with covered escape (only once, lol), since entrench is basically the "please don't global me in 2 GCDs right at the start" skill. More, shield probe doesn't shield a freaking auto-attack and evasion doesn't work against several hard-hitting skills from other classes (although it is, yes, nice, but only lasts 3 seconds, which is a joke). Edited July 2, 2015 by Capote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Just my 2cents here, but I feel like the problem is not our lack of tools for surv, it's the fact that every damn melee class is immune to everything we do. I mean, hitting a leg shot may be harder than winning the lottery, same goes for the slow effects (from diversion, dots or series of shots) and/or cover pulse most of the times. If you know other classes and wait for the immunities to wear off you are already dead. Diversion is completely useless on its actual state. We pretty much rely on our only hard stun (since everyone breaks flash bang anyway) and the chance to kite with covered escape (only once, lol), since entrench is basically the "please don't global me in 2 GCDs right at the start" skill. More, shield probe doesn't shield a freaking auto-attack and evasion doesn't work against several hard-hitting skills from other classes (although it is, yes, nice, but only lasts 3 seconds, which is a joke). This. I feel like a pratice dummy the majority of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 The difference here is obfuscate doesn't affect tech and force attacks, Diversion does. yep. and diversion is (iirc) the only way to pull a sniper/gs out of cover w/o stealth or stun/mezz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) Just my 2cents here, but I feel like the problem is not our lack of tools for surv, it's the fact that every damn melee class is immune to everything we do. I mean, hitting a leg shot may be harder than winning the lottery, same goes for the slow effects (from diversion, dots or series of shots) and/or cover pulse most of the times. If you know other classes and wait for the immunities to wear off you are already dead. Diversion is completely useless on its actual state. We pretty much rely on our only hard stun (since everyone breaks flash bang anyway) and the chance to kite with covered escape (only once, lol), since entrench is basically the "please don't global me in 2 GCDs right at the start" skill. More, shield probe doesn't shield a freaking auto-attack and evasion doesn't work against several hard-hitting skills from other classes (although it is, yes, nice, but only lasts 3 seconds, which is a joke). This is a big issue and one reason I see sniper/slinger as no longer even being all that great in regs without heals, tank or at very least, some other targets that can hold some attention. When I run into decent players, they realize I am a threat and instantly I am dog-piled on little different than YOLO. I have at least been getting better in dealing with it, but it sucks. Huttball at least gives you some positioning advantages, but the rest, you are mostly on ground level and there is enough LOS in any of the key points to contest. This is also why I have favored DF lately or even eng over MM even though MM has the higher potential in PvP for burst. We have limited kiting ability all around outside of roll and if you take the speed boost from coming out of entrench. MM just makes me sit tight longer than I would like with its channels and casts. It's not much when you consider you need to stop moving for cull as well, but its still nice to be able to at least be getting the DOTs out there. Edited July 2, 2015 by Technohic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pherdnut Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Ultimately, IMO, the problem is that the meta was altered in a way that failed to acknowledge slingers/sniper design. CC was our chief asset. We had good ranged damage with great CC. It was our primary defensive asset but also gave us offensive utility by allowing us to act somewhat as CoH-style controllers on the field. And it was a good design that's still fun to play and feels balanced low to early mid regs when you don't get matched up with a ton of players with access to the CC-blocking utilities. The easiest path for a fix would be to give us a cooldown that makes our CC unblockable but IMO, that would be curing they symptom and might be rife with new potential for abuse. A better solution would be to tone down the overall meta in terms of CC/knockback-blocking and adjust their approach to the original problem they were trying to solve, I assume, which was that people were getting really sick of being stopped and locked constantly. So for starters, stop handing out CC like it was candy. Like sorcs weren't already a PITA without the roots proccing off of attacks that actually do real damage. Tone down availability and increase cooldown times to the point where even smugglers/agents have to rotate their CC to always have something on hand and cool it on the 10,000 different ways to negate CC. Give CC breakers 3-5 second immunity from anything they break so multiple opponents can't just chain-stun without them at least having a chance to get away or stun back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Yeah, not a fan of more immunity and immunity to immunity. I get why they did it. It's no fun to be controlled all the time, especially if you are a melee class getting rooted with no relief in resolve ever. But I think they went about it wrong. That said; it is here and if thats going to be the case, if we cannot stop them or knock them back, we need more ways to get away ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VdFExarKun Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) Just my 2cents here, but I feel like the problem is not our lack of tools for surv, it's the fact that every damn melee class is immune to everything we do. I mean, hitting a leg shot may be harder than winning the lottery, same goes for the slow effects (from diversion, dots or series of shots) and/or cover pulse most of the times. If you know other classes and wait for the immunities to wear off you are already dead. Diversion is completely useless on its actual state. We pretty much rely on our only hard stun (since everyone breaks flash bang anyway) and the chance to kite with covered escape (only once, lol), since entrench is basically the "please don't global me in 2 GCDs right at the start" skill. More, shield probe doesn't shield a freaking auto-attack and evasion doesn't work against several hard-hitting skills from other classes (although it is, yes, nice, but only lasts 3 seconds, which is a joke). Yepp, that's the usual picture in general in PvP for Snipers since a long time now and everybody around us gets more and more immunities etc and our abilities become more obsolete. Yeah, not a fan of more immunity and immunity to immunity. I get why they did it. It's no fun to be controlled all the time, especially if you are a melee class getting rooted with no relief in resolve ever. But I think they went about it wrong. That said; it is here and if thats going to be the case, if we cannot stop them or knock them back, we need more ways to get away ourselves. We just can HOPE that we might finally get some attention from the Devs with the next expansion when they hand out new abilities but honestly, I'm not counting on it. Edited July 3, 2015 by VdFExarKun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth__Reaver Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 If only MERC threads lasted this long... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VdFExarKun Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 If only MERC threads lasted this long... Well I'm quite dedicated to my class and won't roll fotm ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaoZhao Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Snipers could definitely get some extra survivability with a few tweaks. How about stun break and entrench finishing the cool down on roll, or anything like that? The problem I have with roll is that it moves you 18 metres when snipers are designed for 35 metre combat. There should be some way to get to the full 35 metres distance between you and the enemy once every few minutes without dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akisgood Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Entrench usable out of cover automatically placing you into cover would be a nice little QoL thing as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) Yeah, not a fan of more immunity and immunity to immunity. . what's funny about this to me -- and i do agree with you -- is that for the longest time, snipers had the most ridiculous immunities in the game. simply being in cover meant no warriors could use their primary resource generator/closer, and MM could be completely immune to EVERYTHING 40 out of every 60(?) seconds. what was the "sacrifice" for that? could not run around. their base mechanics just scream lazy to me. ostensibly, wars can/could never leap to snipers. that's half the dps in any given match screwed on their closer and resource gen. MM would be completely immune to interrupts and CC 40 out of 60(?) seconds. broken? no. but why would they ever design a class like that in the first place? and then you look at all the immunities in play now and it's like...oh. right. Edited July 3, 2015 by foxmob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) Well I'm quite dedicated to my class and won't roll fotm ever. I've been debating a new class but keep sticking to my slinger. Not sure why. All I face are sorcs and PTs every turn and my DF slinger is out matched when a sorc plays the LOS game. The got better DOTs and heals to go with it, and an oh **** button to heal to full. PTs just hit really hard and are not as bad if I can keep them at range. Too bad thats nearly impossibe. Then there are the stealth classes but they are as they always have been for a sniper/sling as they should. I keep getting caught up when I think about it is it doesn't matter how strong a class is, if I am not in rhythm with how to play it. And bad group composition will not be saved by any class. I just keep trying to get better and stop when I get frustrated. Edited July 3, 2015 by Technohic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 what's funny about this to me -- and i do agree with you -- is that for the longest time, snipers had the most ridiculous immunities in the game. simply being in cover meant no warriors could use their primary resource generator/closer, and MM could be completely immune to EVERYTHING 40 out of every 60(?) seconds. what was the "sacrifice" for that? could not run around. their base mechanics just scream lazy to me. ostensibly, wars can/could never leap to snipers. that's half the dps in any given match screwed on their closer and resource gen. MM would be completely immune to interrupts and CC 40 out of 60(?) seconds. broken? no. but why would they ever design a class like that in the first place? and then you look at all the immunities in play now and it's like...oh. right. Well; I think they did it as a way to make it different than merc other than aesthetics. I like the cover system and think that was a good idea as games in the past failed to really encourage people to go "prone" to get accuracy benefits. And the leap immunity is a good tool to be defensive in a lot of maps otherwise a warriror could just leap to any target in Hutt Ball. Frankly; since most of the gap closers in game are not leap, I would be ok with getting rid of that immunity but haveing a lot more defense and escape with some offensive benefits to cover left like the interrupt immunity. Would make MM still want to be in there but would free up Sab and Virulence a bit. What I don't want is for it to be a different version of Merc. Nether class in DPS has ever been that solid outside of regs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 they were great in 8's as far as I can recall. best range dps. huge for holding mid and grabbing ball in hb. iunno. this feels fruitless to me. I just think it's funny that we're longing for the days when only snipers had this outlier of an immunity. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iona_Var Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I can pretty much guarantee if BW gives sniper's better survivability they are going to reduce their dps. Yes snipers have pretty iffy defensives but if they are out in the open where you can't los them, they hit like a truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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