AlrikFassbauer Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Well, they didn't with Assassins/Shadows and with VG/PT, for example ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VdFExarKun Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 I can pretty much guarantee if BW gives sniper's better survivability they are going to reduce their dps. Yes snipers have pretty iffy defensives but if they are out in the open where you can't los them, they hit like a truck. Only if specced Marksman and doing an Ambush crit, but it has a very recognizeable animation when you are about to get ambushed, if you see that - run 'n done. Try that with a PT who hits like a truck or a Concealment OP etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth__Reaver Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Only if specced Marksman and doing an Ambush crit, but it has a very recognizeable animation when you are about to get ambushed, if you see that - run 'n done. Try that with a PT who hits like a truck or a Concealment OP etc. He has a point PTs tend to run and destroy whatever they get their hands on. Con Ops are the best 1v1 class (also takes the most skill) ((honestly tho skill??? In this video game??? But whatever)). However like other people are saying "No classes need buffs at this time to match the "already buffed" classes" All we need to do is nerf the OP classes and be DONE with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 He has a point PTs tend to run and destroy whatever they get their hands on. Con Ops are the best 1v1 class (also takes the most skill) ((honestly tho skill??? In this video game??? But whatever)). However like other people are saying "No classes need buffs at this time to match the "already buffed" classes" All we need to do is nerf the OP classes and be DONE with it. One way or the other things are not balanced. You say nerf, someone says "no out class is fine." You say buff, someone says "No your class is fine." Either way, there is a gap here so it has to give one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) He has a point PTs tend to run and destroy whatever they get their hands on. Con Ops are the best 1v1 class (also takes the most skill) ((honestly tho skill??? In this video game??? But whatever)). However like other people are saying "No classes need buffs at this time to match the "already buffed" classes" All we need to do is nerf the OP classes and be DONE with it. really not that simple. AP and Plasmatech PT are an excellent example. AP burst is insultingly good compared to most other classes. but they also have crap self sufficiency. in fact, BW nerfed their dcds in the same move that they nerfed their burst (shoulder cannon ICD). I'm not criticizing BW for changing the ICD. it was a logical thing to try. but that has done little to curtail AP burst while it's really messed up their healing. (imagine being plasmatech with 1.5 ICD on only 4 missiles!). wow. like plasmatech need a nerf of any kind! lol sorcs are a problem too. barrier + h2f makes them waaaaay more self-sufficient than any other ranged AC. as a sniper, I wouldn't be too miffed at that, but as a merc, it's infuriating since I'm supposed to be able to heal as well. but anyway, if you remember when barrier was first introduced, it was horrible for sorcs. it was a twisted little troll. yeah. you could barrier. then you died. it took a long time for BW to tweak the AC so that they actually "h2f and make them pay," which they actually can do now. but how do you nerf that? take away barrier? that just makes them worse off than mercs and snipers. take away the h2f? grerat. now no ranged ACs can play in soloQ. I know a lot of ppl hate the idea of homogenization. I do not. I'd rather have very similar skill sets than watch FotM become FotY. BW just doesn't update frequently enough to maintain a large degree of variation in class mechanics. for example -- and this kills me -- they don't make significant balance changes at the start/end of every ranked season. I mean...FotM is fine. but new season, new flavor, eh? and then you do finally get a balance change in the middle of the season. like...really? the middle of the season? so now the season represents nothing. at least if it's the season of the sorc, let it be the season of the sorc. change it next season not in the middle of the friggin thing. Edited July 3, 2015 by foxmob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Just roll a pt; root problem solved Hydraulic Override is so overtuned it's not even funny... you have it active (I believe) 1/3 of all time, and you just zoom around on the battlefield; the only thing that can stop you is the occasional mezz from a sorc or whatever. If you're being stunned as pt, you're doing it wrong. Gotta go AP, gotta DPS from 20 meters away (explosive dart is mighty nice with that reset). Back on topic, buff snipers In case you couldn't tell, I am pretty upset about pts now, even though I have one myself. They're crazy, but I guess they're not AS overtuned as other classes... *cough* *** Tanvir. I would rather fight a AP PT anyday on my commando than have to deal with a half-assed MM sniper. PTs telegraph and are squishy and don't have 50% uptime on complete control immunity. Fighting PTs is easy. Fighting a Marksman Sniper that is competent is a nightmare, especially since Decoy does nothing to them and they can still hit you for over 10k while Reactive Shield is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth__Reaver Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 really not that simple. AP and Plasmatech PT are an excellent example. AP burst is insultingly good compared to most other classes. but they also have crap self sufficiency. in fact, BW nerfed their dcds in the same move that they nerfed their burst (shoulder cannon ICD). I'm not criticizing BW for changing the ICD. it was a logical thing to try. but that has done little to curtail AP burst while it's really messed up their healing. (imagine being plasmatech with 1.5 ICD on only 4 missiles!). wow. like plasmatech need a nerf of any kind! lol sorcs are a problem too. barrier + h2f makes them waaaaay more self-sufficient than any other ranged AC. as a sniper, I wouldn't be too miffed at that, but as a merc, it's infuriating since I'm supposed to be able to heal as well. but anyway, if you remember when barrier was first introduced, it was horrible for sorcs. it was a twisted little troll. yeah. you could barrier. then you died. it took a long time for BW to tweak the AC so that they actually "h2f and make them pay," which they actually can do now. but how do you nerf that? take away barrier? that just makes them worse off than mercs and snipers. take away the h2f? grerat. now no ranged ACs can play in soloQ. I know a lot of ppl hate the idea of homogenization. I do not. I'd rather have very similar skill sets than watch FotM become FotY. BW just doesn't update frequently enough to maintain a large degree of variation in class mechanics. for example -- and this kills me -- they don't make significant balance changes at the start/end of every ranked season. I mean...FotM is fine. but new season, new flavor, eh? and then you do finally get a balance change in the middle of the season. like...really? the middle of the season? so now the season represents nothing. at least if it's the season of the sorc, let it be the season of the sorc. change it next season not in the middle of the friggin thing. I completely understand but... They gave decep sins a 30m lolslash and 2 more ticks to juggs UR... Sure AP PT took a NERF yet THEY ARE STILL great. I mean come on. 30m lolslash? Really? For what? A class that gets an instant gap closer with stealth? Needs another gap closer? I'm still vomiting from that buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoolMob Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Sooo if sins are OP, sins have several cc immunities(assuming they spec'd for them): have shroud, they have deflection They have 3 gap creators/don't focus me buttons: can stealth out, they can phase walk (whilst stunned), they can force speed. Snipers can pop entrench and be immune to cc (entrench can be broken through diversion tho) They can potentially have 2 gap creators: roll and they can speed boost off the end of entrench(spec'd). Sooo why don't snipers just get a copy of a sin gap creator? Phase walk would be good but probably too OP (tho sins already have it and theyre OP so meh) Or just make roll 35m (with a reset on roll set into each of the trees as someone also mentioned earlier) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToMyMa Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 *** Tanvir. I would rather fight a AP PT anyday on my commando than have to deal with a half-assed MM sniper. PTs telegraph and are squishy and don't have 50% uptime on complete control immunity. Fighting PTs is easy. Fighting a Marksman Sniper that is competent is a nightmare, especially since Decoy does nothing to them and they can still hit you for over 10k while Reactive Shield is up. 1v1'ing a sniper is the easiest thing to do, of course, that's only when you have LOS. If you're caught in the open, you're dead on, but otherwise, you shouldn't lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 (edited) 1v1 against a Gunslinger / Sniper is ONLY easy if you have a close combat class and are able to get near to them. That's - at least in my opinion - their weakest point. There are tools, yes, but they don't always help - immunities, for example, can be a real problem. Edited July 4, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToMyMa Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 1v1 against a Gunslinger / Sniper is ONLY easy if you have a close combat class and are able to get near to them. That's - at least in my opinion - their weakest point. There are tools, yes, but they don't always help - immunities, for example, can be a real problem. Well, Zoom and I were talking about commandos Commandos are, IMO, tied as the third best dueling class alongside with pts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Okay, then I misunderstood it ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iona_Var Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 (edited) I completely understand but... They gave decep sins a 30m lolslash and 2 more ticks to juggs UR... Sure AP PT took a NERF yet THEY ARE STILL great. I mean come on. 30m lolslash? Really? For what? A class that gets an instant gap closer with stealth? Needs another gap closer? I'm still vomiting from that buff. They did it to help deception with being kited, which a good operative or sniper can still kite a deception sin. I'm on the fence about the ability, it's nice against operatives and the occasional sniper that doesn't entrench in time, but a little on the OP side for everything else. The suggestion of tying a 2s root to slow and making the range of slow 20m wasn't a bad idea, but only if they reverted LOL slash back to 4m. Edited July 4, 2015 by Iona_Var Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 They did it to help deception with being kited, which a good operative or sniper can still kite a deception sin. I'm on the fence about the ability, it's nice against operatives and the occasional sniper that doesn't entrench in time, but a little on the OP side for everything else. The suggestion of tying a 2s root to slow and making the range of slow 20m wasn't a bad idea, but only if they reverted LOL slash back to 4m. Well for as dumb as I feel the ranged mez is after shortening flash bang on operatives, I think it might be a necessary evil for deception with all the root and snare immunity and breakers around. I mean I'm not playing sin right now but we really need melee dps that can pressure healers and I know at least 2 of them have pretty easy access to counter snare or roots and kite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPepssi Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Snipers are fine at current, enig could use some tweaks, but other than that we're fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VdFExarKun Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 Snipers are fine at current, enig could use some tweaks, but other than that we're fine. Nope we're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Well for as dumb as I feel the ranged mez is after shortening flash bang on operatives, I think it might be a necessary evil for deception with all the root and snare immunity and breakers around. I mean I'm not playing sin right now but we really need melee dps that can pressure healers and I know at least 2 of them have pretty easy access to counter snare or roots and kite. no. I'm confident that of all the possible abilities you could give a melee to deal with roots, 30m instant incapacitating (stun/mezz) is the worst. and the incredibly short cd to boot. lol just...lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 (edited) no. I'm confident that of all the possible abilities you could give a melee to deal with roots, 30m instant incapacitating (stun/mezz) is the worst. and the incredibly short cd to boot. lol just...lol. I was addressing the idea of it being a root or slow or any combination of that. Would be nearly worthless on the classes that can really kite to begin with as far as a gap closer. Even a sniper can spec for movement impairment immunity if they leave from hunker down, which is available often in MM. The other 2 specs not so much of course. I'd just assume they do nothing than root snare as it does nothing against the decent classes. Edited July 4, 2015 by Technohic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPepssi Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Nope we're not. Mate, I realise that all you do, is sit in solo ranked and think that class balance should revolve around that. Thing is though, the game is meant to be balanced around trinity comps and snipers work more than fine in regs and group ranked. /endrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kvandertulip Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Mate, I realise that all you do, is sit in solo ranked and think that class balance should revolve around that. Thing is though, the game is meant to be balanced around trinity comps and snipers work more than fine in regs and group ranked. /endrant Snipers are garbage in group ranked if you are not specced marksman. That is not balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pherdnut Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 (edited) Mate, I realise that all you do, is sit in solo ranked and think that class balance should revolve around that. Thing is though, the game is meant to be balanced around trinity comps and snipers work more than fine in regs and group ranked. /endrant I could handle being at a disadvantage in group solo, but right now I'm more of a complete liability that always gets insta-focused by the other group. I can't burst like a sorc. I have a lot of CC but that's become so unreliable it's bordering on useless at critical times against players that can ignore everything I throw. The only thing snipers/slingers are really competitive on at this point is maybe AoE. Correct me if I'm wrong about something - you definitely have more PVP experience than I do - but why is the price for that in terms of balancing to be so fragile that we can be insta-ganked without dedicated tanking and heals? Most other RDPS ACs don't need that to live long enough to actually contribute in scenarios where their teammates aren't doing them any favors. So... what do slingers do with dedicated protection that gives a team a unique advantage it wouldn't have if it went with a tougher RDPS AC that kills faster and doesn't require as much effort to support? Edited July 4, 2015 by Pherdnut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPepssi Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I could handle being at a disadvantage in group solo, but right now I'm more of a complete liability that always gets insta-focused by the other group. I can't burst like a sorc. I have a lot of CC but that's become so unreliable it's bordering on useless at critical times against players that can ignore everything I throw. The only thing snipers/slingers are really competitive on at this point is maybe AoE. Correct me if I'm wrong about something - you definitely have more PVP experience than I do - but why is the price for that in terms of balancing to be so fragile that we can be insta-ganked without dedicated tanking and heals? Most other RDPS ACs don't need that to live long enough to actually contribute in scenarios where their teammates aren't doing them any favors. So... what do slingers do with dedicated protection that gives a team a unique advantage it wouldn't have if it went with a tougher RDPS AC that kills faster and doesn't require as much effort to support? Can't burst like a sorc? Surely you're joking, lightning is currently the lowest hitting burst spec in the game. Sniper cooldowns are really good, if you use them correctly, sure without a healer backing you up, you could potentially die pretty quickly, but so can mercs, marauders, pts and sorcs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPepssi Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Snipers are garbage in group ranked if you are not specced marksman. That is not balanced. Not really, though admitedly Marksman is BiS atm. There are alot of specs considered useless in group ranked, and even whole classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaineOs Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Problem with marksman is it's a little too good with the burst at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DynamiCtagez Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) Snipers are garbage in group ranked if you are not specced marksman. That is not balanced. Not a single class has three viable specs for group ranked currently. And Marksman is the second strongest dps spec for group, on par with AP PTs and right behind Hatred/Madness. Not saying this is great but it's already better than what some other classes have (e.g. Mercs, Maras). Edited July 5, 2015 by DynamiCtagez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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