Slinger/Sniper - Survivability ISSUE!

[Zoom_VI]

Alright I see, have fun trolling then if you don't know anything better to do with your time.

 

Dude take chill pill. The only person being aggressive is you, and your not even justified in your aggression.

 

But whatever, this whole thread has no other purpose than to serve that blatant and uncompromising agenda of yours.

[Elracor]

[*]1. Snipers are generally BETTER off now than before the expansion. More defensives, better offensives. I'm sorry but with AOE DMG Reduction given to all specs you simply cant say your survivability has been nerfed. Its buffed.

 

I disagree with this "fact" to some extent. Snipers are better off against direct AoE damage for sure, but with Dodge no longer cleansing anything at all and Defence Screen having a ~50% higher cooldown I think Snipers have lost defensive capabilities against DoTs.

As several classes have been given more DoTs and/or ways to spread DoTs with AoE attacks, I'd say DoTs in general have been boosted as well on top of the Sniper having fewer defensives against them.

Edited December 8, 2014 by MFollin

[VdFExarKun]

Dude take chill pill. The only person being aggressive is you, and your not even justified in your aggression.

 

But whatever, this whole thread has no other purpose than to serve that blatant and uncompromising agenda of yours.

 

Sorry but I'm not aggressive here, the thread was calm and people talked about the topic at hand.

 

Until someone quoted me without saying anything related to the quote and talked about "crying doom and damnation", when I was suggesting a change of an ability or utility and reminded people to keep the thread clean.

There has been no crying in this thread at all.

Thing is, that one person, I do know, and that guy has been trying to provoke me for months, trying to ridicule my post/threads that I made in the past and has always been a ********. So excuse me, when I see him in one of my threads knowing what he is up to.

But since he cannot give it a rest, this shall be my last response to that matter and I already know that he will quote this again and saying some blahblah.

 

Also you talk about "blatant and uncompromising agenda of mine". Just wow. It's a crime to want his class changed a little bit in order for the class to be not so dependent on others in PvP anymore?

 

Oh well, whatever.

 

Let's continue with ideas.

[VdFExarKun]

I disagree with this "fact" to some extent. Snipers are better off against direct AoE damage for sure, but with Dodge no longer cleansing anything at all and Defence Screen having a ~50% higher cooldown I think Snipers have lost defensive capabilities against DoTs.

As several classes have been given more DoTs and/or ways to spread DoTs with AoE attacks, I'd say DoTs in general have been boosted as well on top of the Sniper having fewer defensives against them.

 

Playing warzones couple of hours today and you can't believe how many DoTs I always had on me and getting rooted and rooted and rooted and the melees on my tail.

I can't imagine that casual players will have a lot of fun with this class.

[Elracor]

Playing warzones couple of hours today and you can't believe how many DoTs I always had on me and getting rooted and rooted and rooted and the melees on my tail.

I can't imagine that casual players will have a lot of fun with this class.

 

Oh I can, I've been playing my slinger in some Warzones and experienced the DoTs

The worst bit is that I know the opponent team was really, really bad and I still had fairly big problems with DoTs ticking.

None of the Snipers on their team felt like using Diversion though (but I did ), so they were usually vaporized with me safe behind my cover.

Edited December 8, 2014 by MFollin

[Morteistno]

[*]Give snipers who sat in cover for more than X value (balance issues, 4 seconds?) true sight.

 

[*]True sight (D&D) means that they can see invisible units. This means stealths wont be able to open on them without their knowing which means that they can react. The range should be 5-10 m, depending on balance.

.

 

This one I actually like and it does fit in well with the existing toolset. I.e. snipers already have the stealth detection but overall it is very so - so and in arena's it is completely useless.

[Kalliadies]

Been playing alot of pvp and I am feeling alot stronger. (although this could be because people havent worked out their new min maxes. but alot of people do have full gear and augments)

 

In regs I am finding there is no class I cant suprise. At first I was getting focused by the usual burst assasins, AP power techs and sorcs looking for an easy kill, but after the first few times they became very timid about engaging my sniper. I have alts of these classes so I know the rotations of whats coming, when I smell the burst about to go off, heeeelllo evasion.

 

And diversion is amazing, has kept me alive against melees during their most dangerous rotations.

 

I havent had a probelm with dots between ballistic dampeners, Sheild probe and my Shield relic (yes I use a defensive relic, I play solo and I expect to fight without support, so this helps)

 

In 4 v 4s, i still get focused first and still die first. Having said that, that doesnt mean that I went down cheaply. Infact the three games i had yesterday we won because they all stacked on my while i used every defensive cooldown, orbital aoe dot spread and nuke before I died. More often than at the time of my death, they would be 1 man down and all at half health from the aoe beating. (thats without heals or a tank on our side, vs heals on their side. all 3 games)

 

I reckon we will see how the sniper is doing in about a month

Edited December 9, 2014 by Kalliadies

[mahoneygang]

Some suggestions: After you roll, you gain shield probe for 5 seconds, OR your shield probe cooldown is reset, this would be in the heroic utility.

 

Make ballistic shield also a cleanse, this would cause less problems with pve as it has such a long cooldown, while also making the sniper have a oh **** cooldown with ballistic shield being buffed. If it causes so many problems in pve you could alternatively tie it into a set bonus or make it only give this extra ability in pvp instances, or a debuff in raid instances.

[Thexremstar]

agree 100% you almost have to have a self heal now to be viable our defenses are terrible vs classes that have cc immunity. Dots are making this class useless with no purge. They won't fix this for a while, better to just roll a sorc/sage.

 

yes thats just what we need a game full of sorcs and sages let the STUN FEST BEGIN(99% no one will die)

 

oh what happened to star wars (no jedi no troopers no smugglers no snipers??????)

[Thexremstar]

Some suggestions: After you roll, you gain shield probe for 5 seconds, OR your shield probe cooldown is reset, this would be in the heroic utility.

 

Make ballistic shield also a cleanse, this would cause less problems with pve as it has such a long cooldown, while also making the sniper have a oh **** cooldown with ballistic shield being buffed. If it causes so many problems in pve you could alternatively tie it into a set bonus or make it only give this extra ability in pvp instances, or a debuff in raid instances.

 

they just removed the self cleanse on shield o.O

[Thexremstar]

This one I actually like and it does fit in well with the existing toolset. I.e. snipers already have the stealth detection but overall it is very so - so and in arena's it is completely useless.

 

a sniper in cover is focused on a target area and shouldnt be able to see all units within a X distance after siting in cover for X time if anything he should be and is more vulnerable, it is the snipers job to find a good "nest" to snipe from and be protected from his team and healer more of a back line position

[Elracor]

Make ballistic shield also a cleanse, this would cause less problems with pve as it has such a long cooldown, while also making the sniper have a oh **** cooldown with ballistic shield being buffed. If it causes so many problems in pve you could alternatively tie it into a set bonus or make it only give this extra ability in pvp instances, or a debuff in raid instances.

 

They removed cleanses for a reason, to make DoT classes more viable. Therefore I doubt we'll be seeing cleanses anytime soon.

I'd rather take a look at the Utility that Mercenaries/Commandos have, Masterful Utility that gives you -30% incoming damage versus DoTs for 12 seconds after using your cleanse skill. That kind of utility still gives you survivability without ruining DoT classes (the DoTs will still be active so e.g. Virulence Snipers can use Cull on you), and I'd think that's the kind of utility the Sniper could really use - without it being tied to Virulence that is.

Edited December 10, 2014 by MFollin

[Grue_Hunter]

Been playing alot of pvp and I am feeling alot stronger. (although this could be because people havent worked out their new min maxes. but alot of people do have full gear and augments)

 

In regs I am finding there is no class I cant suprise. At first I was getting focused by the usual burst assasins, AP power techs and sorcs looking for an easy kill, but after the first few times they became very timid about engaging my sniper. I have alts of these classes so I know the rotations of whats coming, when I smell the burst about to go off, heeeelllo evasion.

 

And diversion is amazing, has kept me alive against melees during their most dangerous rotations.

 

I havent had a probelm with dots between ballistic dampeners, Sheild probe and my Shield relic (yes I use a defensive relic, I play solo and I expect to fight without support, so this helps)

 

In 4 v 4s, i still get focused first and still die first. Having said that, that doesnt mean that I went down cheaply. Infact the three games i had yesterday we won because they all stacked on my while i used every defensive cooldown, orbital aoe dot spread and nuke before I died. More often than at the time of my death, they would be 1 man down and all at half health from the aoe beating. (thats without heals or a tank on our side, vs heals on their side. all 3 games)

 

I reckon we will see how the sniper is doing in about a month

 

I note most of the complaints about snipers/slingers usually relate to survivability in arenas. And 3.0 has just emphasized this issue.

 

A huge problem for snipers in the arenas has not been the class skills - it has been the arenas and warzones themselves, but particularly the arenas. They were not designed with the snipers/slingers in mind. I mean, heck, when would you see a character, trained in distant attack and picking off opponents at a distance before they come close, deliberately choosing to take on opponents on a terrain which is relatively flat, features little to no cover or and doesn't really offer decent features which could offer enough safety to knock off opponents? (Come to think of it, only 2 warzones really offer slingers/snipers any decent locations to play their role as they are typically designed for in MMOs.)

 

Finally, let's talk about the Disciplines system. The skill set is not great -- and it feels unsniperish/unslingerish. And, it plays horribly. Enough said.

 

Please consider this thread, devs. Otherwise, I can see the slingers and snipers being shelved for a long time.

[Ravenschild]

suggestion: Unnerf orbital strike and give all classes an expunge. Cool down on the expunge for non stealth classes can be set as long as the stun break and like the stun break does not reset upon death. That would at least give some relief and you would have to choose when to use it.

[AlrikFassbauer]

a sniper in cover is focused on a target area and shouldnt be able to see all units within a X distance after siting in cover for X time if anything he should be and is more vulnerable, it is the snipers job to find a good "nest" to snipe from and be protected from his team and healer more of a back line position

 

Which would make him crap in PUGs, where people usually don't suppoort much each other. And that'd be a REAL reason NOT to play a sniper ...

[Kalliadies]

a sniper in cover is focused on a target area and shouldnt be able to see all units within a X distance after siting in cover for X time if anything he should be and is more vulnerable, it is the snipers job to find a good "nest" to snipe from and be protected from his team and healer more of a back line position

 

Not sure if i understood you wrong (because of your wording) but really an actual sniper would be the one protecting the healers and vital assets, not the other way round. Thats how i play anyway, if im not taking out High priority targets, im assisting the healers.

 

 

I dont see why a "dug" in sniper would become more vulnerable. completely the opposite, booby traps, trip mines you name it.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Kalliadies

[Technohic]

Not sure if i understood you wrong (because of your wording) but really an actual sniper would be the one protecting the healers and vital assets, not the other way round. Thats how i play anyway, if im not taking out High priority targets, im assisting the healers.

 

 

I dont see why a "dug" in sniper would become more vulnerable. completely the opposite, booby traps, trip mines you name it.

 

I think he's trying to bring a realism to it in that a sniper would be busy staring down the scope to not see nearby enemies sneak up. Just kind of dumb for this game.

[Josewales]

Get rid of arenas and introduce 16v16 instead. Slingers thrive in a mass chaotic environment. Rockpaperscissors is our nemesis. Problem with my Slinger is that once the CDs are burned, he's usually dead when it comes to skilled players that know when we are most vulnerable. Animations say it all. And of course we are the first ones focused.

 

I have been pvping MMOs since 2000....and it's common old skool knowledge that imbalances and OPs are dumbed down in bigger masses.

 

Getting rid of 'easy mode design' arenas will never happen with BW. They are riding their crap engine out until the game dies....hopefully when the next Star Wars MMO arrives. Only reason I am putting up with it since arenas arrived. Arenas meant FOTM...and GL on that concerning sniper/slinger based on their class intentions and design.

 

Sorry wow spawns...don't take it personal:)

 

PS...why the he'll was our screen CD increased for?

Edited December 10, 2014 by Josewales

[THobbsy]

Been playing my sniper and slinger quite a bit, and got to say we do need something to help us survive.

 

I seem to be getting focussed even more than pre 3.0, and there is very little I can do about it as all our tools work in a 1v1, or 2v2 situation, but are less useful in a larger fight. We certainly do good damage still, but dead dps is no dps.

 

Two changes (or ideas anyway) I would like to see are;

 

An passive or utility to help deal with damage taken when we are removed from cover.

This would be along the lines of; Reduces all damage taken by 30%(?) for 6 seconds when you leave cover. Re-entering cover causes this effect to finish prematurely. Can only occur once every 12(?) seconds.

 

The other ability I would like to see and would help us immensely, is the ability to use our major defensive (roll!) when rooted, as so many abilities now have a root attached to them roll is often unusable.

Edited December 11, 2014 by THobbsy
Grammar

[maverickmatt]

Been playing my sniper and slinger quite a bit, and got to say we do need something to help us survive.

 

I seem to be getting focussed even more than pre 3.0, and there is very little I can do about it as all our tools work in a 1v1, or 2v2 situation, but are less useful in a larger fight. We certainly do good damage still, but dead dps is no dps.

 

Two changes (or ideas anyway) I would like to see are;

 

An passive or utility to help deal with damage taken when we are removed from cover.

This would be along the lines of; Reduces all damage taken by 30%(?) for 6 seconds when you leave cover. Re-entering cover causes this effect to finish prematurely. Can only occur once every 12(?) seconds.

 

The other ability I would like to see and would help us immensely, is the ability to use our major defensive (roll!) when rooted, as so many abilities now have a root attached to them roll is often unusable.

 

Not sure about #1

 

No to #2

 

Escapes are vastly more powerful that gap closers in this game. If you could roll while rooted it would make playing a melee vs a sniper nonsensical.

[Technohic]

I still dont know if survivability is all that bad but still only level 59. Been mostly PvPing and seem more durable than before. Evasion doesn't clear DOTs any more but man is it handy if you need to escape heavy focus. Diversion is also great at that.

 

Will know more here soon when I ding 60, I suppose. Then I can enter where I know its not a bunch of level 30s attacking me, but I don't think it is. Most I see are 55 and above.

[VdFExarKun]

I've been seeing Slingers/Snipers getting oblitered again today, even myself, and no, I'm not only talking about stinking solo ranked. It's the same picture in normal warzones.

 

The knock out of cover effect by Diversion is just ridiculous. 2 Snipers using it, both out of cover, now who has the better teammates? ...

 

I would be completely fine with it if we would have something either against it, to prevent it, or something that we can use to get away because roll ain't working with Diversion and might even bug.

The knock out of cover effect of Diversion could be removed, would it change Slinger/Sniper in a way that we would be totally OP or super hard to kill? I don't think so.

 

It's just not fun to not be able to escape while you got a melee pain train with occasional range dps on you that roots you like crazy.

[Glower]

The knock out of cover effect by Diversion is just ridiculous. 2 Snipers using it, both out of cover, now who has the better teammates? ...

 

I would be completely fine with it if we would have something either against it, to prevent it, or something that we can use to get away because roll ain't working with Diversion and might even bug.

The knock out of cover effect of Diversion could be removed, would it change Slinger/Sniper in a way that we would be totally OP or super hard to kill? I don't think so.

 

It's just not fun to not be able to escape while you got a melee pain train with occasional range dps on you that roots you like crazy.

 

Agree! When it was a MM-only one-target skill, then it was ~OK. But huge AoE dot available for all specs? It's just stupid (not OP, just stupid!) especially in sniper vs slinger situations. Like a two clowns.

 

btw Why our Orbital Strike is tied to cover? Is it so powerful?

[THobbsy]

Not sure about #1

 

No to #2

 

Escapes are vastly more powerful that gap closers in this game. If you could roll while rooted it would make playing a melee vs a sniper nonsensical.

 

 

I do see your point on this one, somewhat. If it is to stay as is, we would need the rubberbanding to be removed that causes roll to go on cooldown, and you don't go anywhere/roll on the spot.

 

For Maras/Sents, Slingers/Snipers are already a massive pain at best, and a borderline untouchable at worst.

Juggs and sins however shouldn't have too many problems with it from what I have seen so far.

Powertechs, umm, yeah not sure what else to say lol.

Not sure about dps operatives, haven't come across any good when on my sniper lately, so can't really judge how it would affect them, or how this would interact with crippling slice, their new ability that roots and prevents turning.

It's not just melee either though, sorc roots are absolutely killer.

 

I would gladly give Marauders something to deal with snipers, if our roll could be used when rooted, the rest, well they should be able to deal with it.

[Pferdebremse]

we need some form of (substantial) self-healing. i mean why give a class that has already off-taunts like hatred sins and juggernauts and vanguards (oh **** moment or ongoing) self-healing capabilities while snipers have neither heals nor taunts. that cute 1% every 3sec tick isnt really doing anything, neither is the shield probe. does it come down to "but you have ballistic shield" again? everyone has has raid utility buffs and debuffs now.

 

(again) how about this:

 

a short combat stealth ability (like force camouflage) that doesnt break from taking (dot) damage, but also doesnt remove you from combat, heals you for lets say 35% of your health and gives you the opportunity to disengage and reposition yourself in a wz.

 

i hope this wouldnt screw up operations balance which is all Bioware seems to be concerned about these days

 

on an unrelated sidenote, why isnt the 6% more dmg reduction while in cover still not showing up in the character sheet? makes me think it doesnt even work at all.

 

one more thing, can we just have a talent that makes snipe/charged burst instant, no matter what instead of these lame "when you activate cover pulse / when you go into cover every 6 sec" things, it would really make a HUGE difference for pvp and virulence would get more use out of their snipe-replacing fartshot.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Pferdebremse