tdmaha Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Glad I didn't pre purchase cause after seeing the new excuse they gave us for skill trees I think I'm done with this game. IMO they took this games weakest point and made it weaker. Cool story... Can I have your stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turajin Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Isn't it crazy that there is no new PvP content in SoR? Well, there is. It's called "discipline system". It was introduced solely that you pvp-wannbe's stop crying about balancing issues. And it ruined the fun of lots of other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmaha Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Well, there is. It's called "discipline system". It was introduced solely that you pvp-wannbe's stop crying about balancing issues. And it ruined the fun of lots of other players. Oh stop it did NOT ruin the fun for "a lot of players". A few people crying on the forums does not equal "a lot of players". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alssaran Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 (edited) What hybrid tears? Pre 3.0 we had 41 choices to make. Post 3.0 we have, what? 8? People talk about hybrids like they were eating babies as they did 9k DPS. Unless you put every point in one skill tree - guess what? You were a "hybrid". And there's the mistake. You didn't have 41 choices to make. You had three choices to make. Most of those 41 points went into talents with multiple points, and if you wanted your last ability, you had to spec a great deal of those into one tree. You didn't have 41 utilities to choose from, you had some things in that three which you 'had' to take. You didn't have 41 exceptional different and viable choices since you had to comit a large percentage of those points into one tree. The other option was to become a hybrid and spec them somewhat distributed among all three, but you had little choice there aswell. You had certain skills you had to take to be effective, which meant that many of those 41 points had to be spend in a certain way to be most effective. If people would forget this illusion of "We had 41 choices to make before SoR", that'd be great. Edited December 3, 2014 by Alssaran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphamalebsr Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 (edited) This is a dumbed down system for mediocre gameplay. Yay vanilla. Why not give us all the same skill and 1 button to constantly mash. I would hate to have to think for myself and figure something out. Tell me the best way to go BW and here take my money. On second thought, I am canceling my sub and going f2p. I recommend everyone that sees this new skill tree as the fail that it is do the same. This is a business and the only thing that will get their attention is money. Unless I see an acceptable change, I'll ride out whats left of my sub and find something that isnt pandering to a 12 year old. This right here... Noone asked for this new system, NOONE... But yet these um guys over at BW thought it would be a good idea... Well your "Good idea" is about to cost you SUBS... Your population was doing well, once people deal with these changes my money is on a big population dip for you... I won't even get into the fact that you pretty much gimped my class in PVP...And not being able to clean DOTS anymore???.. What tard came up with the idea of not being able to clean something ever minute pretty much ever class can spam nonstop.... Edited December 3, 2014 by alphamalebsr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmaha Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 This right here... Noone asked for this new system, NOONE... But yet these um guys over at BW thought it would be a good idea... Well your "Good idea" is about to cost you SUBS... Your population was doing well, once people deal with these changes my money is on a big population dip for you... I won't even get into the fact that you pretty much gimped my class in PVP...And not being able to clean DOTS anymore???.. What tard came up with the idea of not being able to clean something ever minute pretty much ever class can spam nonstop.... *NO ONE* is going to believe your doom and gloom. *NO ONE* cares about your tears. Just like in '12, '13, '14 Swtor will be perfectly fine without the likes of you. While you will be crying about this for years to come plenty will be enjoying it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starglitter Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Mmm... The key issue with Disiciplines was that in the "simplication" effort a lot of secondary and thirthiary orders of effect built in the game were lost. Allow me to explain... Think of any class and role, they have skills and what is the most important thing you must do to optimize the performance of your alt? Learn your skill rotations! Now think, how did the skill rotations came to be? If you think about it, and went to your class trees, you will see abilities that are modifiers or bonus givers, many are passive in nature. For instance some say you get +5 critical chance and surge, this ability is not an attack but it makes a difference, other abilities may say using a particular attack twice raises a stance value, seems like nothing, but another benefit you could buy say when the stance value is 5 your next discharge damage is doubled and your endurance recharge is boosted by 25% for the next 5 seconds. While this last benefit is not a power, it makes quite a great deal of a difference. If you look at Disiciplines the nugget abilities went as a whole "poof". Now some did make it to the right box choices, but not many, and really not the truly significant ones either. So there it is in a nutshell Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Mmm... The key issue with Disiciplines was that in the "simplication" effort a lot of secondary and thirthiary orders of effect built in the game were lost. Thing is... those secondary and tertiary orders of effect were largely clever distortions of devs intentions by the players. MMO player are generally speaking.... exceptional at exploiting holes in dev design by exploiting unintended consequences of secondary effects that the old skill system permitted. While a major change like this is painful for some players initially... it will be old news in a few weeks as players have relearned to play their class (ie: adjusted to the changes). The simplification of the system however will pay large dividends in future expansions as they devs averted absurd power creep (and the continued balance issues that come with it). Simpler is sometimes better. This is one of those sometimes (in the grand scheme of things and in the context of a broad and diverse player base). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashlockheart Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I wish people would stop repeating the "this change dumbs the game down" line. Its total and complete ********. All of the specs in the game now more complex than they ever where, some more than others. Utilities is the first time in the game's history where they ever gave players legitimate choice. I.E I actually have to chose between multiple good options rather than before where I had to chose between one good option and a handful of bad ones. I wish players would stop repeating it was a illusion of choice because that's False. How? Because if you can place the point in what ever talent you want then its not a illusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I wish players would stop repeating it was a illusion of choice because that's False. How? Because if you can place the point in what ever talent you want then its not a illusion. To play your chosen spec optimally, there basically was one way through the talents you had to take. Meaning it was not a real choice, but merely an illusion of choice. Now of course, if you chose to be worse, that is entirely on you, and in this case, you are right, the choice of being bad by picking wrong talents is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Mmm... The key issue with Disiciplines was that in the "simplication" effort a lot of secondary and thirthiary orders of effect built in the game were lost. Allow me to explain... Think of any class and role, they have skills and what is the most important thing you must do to optimize the performance of your alt? Learn your skill rotations! Now think, how did the skill rotations came to be? If you think about it, and went to your class trees, you will see abilities that are modifiers or bonus givers, many are passive in nature. For instance some say you get +5 critical chance and surge, this ability is not an attack but it makes a difference, other abilities may say using a particular attack twice raises a stance value, seems like nothing, but another benefit you could buy say when the stance value is 5 your next discharge damage is doubled and your endurance recharge is boosted by 25% for the next 5 seconds. While this last benefit is not a power, it makes quite a great deal of a difference. If you look at Disiciplines the nugget abilities went as a whole "poof". Now some did make it to the right box choices, but not many, and really not the truly significant ones either. So there it is in a nutshell Sue They wanted the target DPS lower anyway, so whether or not disciplines removed those abilities the damage would be lowered somewhere. If the removal of those passive buffs to things like crit made a difference in the DPS output of a class such that they were no longer hitting their target numbers you can bet they'd be buffed elsewhere. Having damage be buffed in the trees was an artificial construct put in place because they needed to fill places in the tree. It was only there to improve your DPS because your base DPS was constructed under the assumption that you would be getting those buffs. In other words, they existed because they were designed to exist, not because they needed to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadtechSavant Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Cannot say I like either, not going to stop me playing but don't think its an improvement at all. Yes would like the old one back but I think we all know that's not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 To anyone who wants to sign a petition to revert the game to pre-3.0, click this link http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=779548 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadtechSavant Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 To anyone who wants to sign a petition to revert the game to pre-3.0, click this link http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=779548 Not going to happen, so a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashlockheart Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 To play your chosen spec optimally, there basically was one way through the talents you had to take. Meaning it was not a real choice, but merely an illusion of choice. Now of course, if you chose to be worse, that is entirely on you, and in this case, you are right, the choice of being bad by picking wrong talents is gone. Just because you think picking other parts in the other trees makes a player bad does not mean there enjoyment should be taken away. I my self wouldn't take any thing way from any player. I wouldn't care if they just do pvp. If that's what they like and enjoy then that's fine with me, but just because i don't like what they enjoy does not mean they should be forced into some they don't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hachibushu Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Creating an illusion of choice does not make a system smarter. The choices you have now are far more meaningful than any you had in the old system. This. Very much this. I was sort of taken aback when I first logged in by the lack of choices... but I had my old spec on hand in the old system, and started to compare them. The differences were so minor as to be almost non-existent. And I had options that I didn't have before. Now this is just my experience... but I think that if you compare on torhead or somewhere like that, unless you had a full hybrid build, you'll find the same. And the optional points you get to spend are a lot more meaningful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Not going to happen, so a waste of time. I can always try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Just because you think picking other parts in the other trees makes a player bad does not mean there enjoyment should be taken away. I my self wouldn't take any thing way from any player. I wouldn't care if they just do pvp. If that's what they like and enjoy then that's fine with me, but just because i don't like what they enjoy does not mean they should be forced into some they don't like. Picking wrong talents is a problem for PvE as well. Strictly speaking, PvPers got hurt by this change much more, because it removed the cookie cutter game breaking builds. I get that some people like experimenting with talents, but for the endgame (be it PvE or PvP), there were very few "correct" ways to place your talent points, made by exactly the people who like to experiment with talents (albeit in a different way, with goal to minmax everything as much as possible). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 To anyone who wants to sign a petition to revert the game to pre-3.0, click this link http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=779548 Oh no, a petition for something that will never happen. Seriously? Stop being ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashlockheart Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Picking wrong talents is a problem for PvE as well. Strictly speaking, PvPers got hurt by this change much more, because it removed the cookie cutter game breaking builds. I get that some people like experimenting with talents, but for the endgame (be it PvE or PvP), there were very few "correct" ways to place your talent points, made by exactly the people who like to experiment with talents (albeit in a different way, with goal to minmax everything as much as possible). That's is still taking what only you like and having others thrown away. There are players out there that don't want to raid, but do enjoy the solo story content. Others just like doing the flight missions. Main point is. just because you view it as bad does not mean those who enjoy it should be punished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I wish players would stop repeating it was a illusion of choice because that's False. How? Because if you can place the point in what ever talent you want then its not a illusion. Picking your tree was like a multiple choice test. There was only one right way to do it. Sure, you had a lot of choices and you could put your dots wherever you wanted, and even make some neat designs with it, but the more you strayed away from the actual answer the worse of a grade you would get. The OP hybrids were the people who figured out that if you scanned in a certain pattern into the machine it would actually freak out and give you extra points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdthomp Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Yeah, I totally hate this. And its not just this game. My prof did the same thing on our last test too. We normally had 6 options on the 100 question multiple choice test. Now we only had 2 options on each question, and it was only 20 questions worth 5 points each, instead of the 100 questions for 1 point each. It totally sucked. I liked having way more options and customization for my answers. GAWD! And his explanation was totally dumb. "Why does it matter how many false options I give you when there is only one right answer?" What does that even mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 To play your chosen spec optimally, there basically was one way through the talents you had to take. Meaning it was not a real choice, but merely an illusion of choice. Now of course, if you chose to be worse, that is entirely on you, and in this case, you are right, the choice of being bad by picking wrong talents is gone. Time will tell, but it would be interesting if the 3.0 change ended up with fewer broken pugs in the group finder. Not that this would somehow magically make players better, but it's possible that by restricting players from picking truly broken builds, that the average pug performance goes up. I'm crossing my fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orizuru Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Picking your tree was like a multiple choice test. There was only one right way to do it. Sure, you had a lot of choices and you could put your dots wherever you wanted, and even make some neat designs with it, but the more you strayed away from the actual answer the worse of a grade you would get. The OP hybrids were the people who figured out that if you scanned in a certain pattern into the machine it would actually freak out and give you extra points. Best analogy ever! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 That's is still taking what only you like and having others thrown away. There are players out there that don't want to raid, but do enjoy the solo story content. Others just like doing the flight missions. Main point is. just because you view it as bad does not mean those who enjoy it should be punished. If you like solo story content or flight missions, you should not need to worry about how you assign your talent points. The new system should even be better for you, because you do not need to worry about it anymore, you even get the "good" abilities earlier so you can start doing what you want sooner. I am talking about areas that are affected by talent distribution. And those areas are the endgame content. Very few people (meaning fewer than there are PvPers) have some exciting RP about how they distribute talent points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts