A Powertech PvP Thread

[BMaster]

i would agree that it will be hard to tell till we get someway to extract the exact numbers.

 

On flame sweep, i am a lower lvl and just got this ability, and heat to dmg ratio didnt seem very good, even for an AOE, but i haven't had much time to play with it. I tend to try and use flame thrower or rain from above for AOE dmg.

[Guntsu]

Here is an AP Build that would use Combustible Gas Cylinder and as a result uses sweltering heat as a snare since flame burst triggers the dot effect 100%.

 

I dunno how this would play out but I was messing with the calc and this build intrigues me, the only potential downside I see is possible heat issues.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hZrsMrobfkdsZf0M.1

[Mercury_Rose]

In my opinion, most of the hybrid builds suggested so far make inefficient use of talent points. I also believe that the ST/Pyro is a bad combination as there is little synergy between many of the two tree's abilities.

 

My personal favourites for PVP are 30/11/0 (ST) build and the 1/22/18 (AP/Pyro) spec.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301GorbdRrogZMsbMo.1

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301oZMsrrobckZfhrbzh.1

 

Both are melee heavy and make extensive use Grapple Hook and Retractable Blade.

[brypoint]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMGdbRboMZMcZbIbbz.1

 

Well if the link works can u guys give me a critique on this build? I'm really loving railshot atm, but also liking the survivabilty of ST in PVP. I'm 41 now so still building but this should be my final build. I know it's wasted points in combustable to get Incendiary missle and superheated rail as I only run in Ion gas. I usually top the charts in PVP as far as protection and kills and such. I'm running the defensive lv40 pvp gear and my hit points are at around 15k and i'm pretty tough to kill. Any thoughts or do you guys think I should make a few changes?

Edited December 29, 2011 by brypoint

[chainsawsamurai]

Here is an AP Build that would use Combustible Gas Cylinder and as a result uses sweltering heat as a snare since flame burst triggers the dot effect 100%.

 

I dunno how this would play out but I was messing with the calc and this build intrigues me, the only potential downside I see is possible heat issues.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hZrsMrobfkdsZf0M.1

 

Missing out on your Heat Venting for a snare sounds like robbing Peter to pay Paul. Adv Proto is fairly heat efficient already (Incin vs Ret Blade and TD vs Immolate) and it might be a decent trade off, but my gut says it's a wash.

[chainsawsamurai]

In my opinion, most of the hybrid builds suggested so far make inefficient use of talent points. I also believe that the ST/Pyro is a bad combination as there is little synergy between many of the two tree's abilities.

 

Talents suck. They aren't very well designed. Being inefficient with an already inefficient system isn't nearly as big of a deal as you think it is.

 

Pyro and ST have much better synergy than it looks like, and much better synergy than Pyro/Adv Proto imo. Here's why!

 

--Gyroscopic Alignment Jets and Shield vents: Your Heat Venting is through the roof in PvP. It doesn't get any better than this combination.

 

oh wait, yes it does!

 

--Flame Shield and Prototype Particle Accelerator: As a ST you get nearly twice as many Rocket Punches as other specs. Those Rocket Punches give you significantly more Rail Shots. Rail Shots that are free and refund 8 heat on burning targets.

 

--Incin Missile: Burn. It sounds heat inefficient at 25, but you're already venting a ridiculous amount. Even without a free Rail Shot a Incin Missile -> Rail Shot combo costs the same as a Ret Blade -> Rail Shot combo. Oh and you can apply it from range.

 

The fact that you can Incin Missile -> Rail Shot at 30 yards, plus Grapple, plus Jet Charge means you have as close to 100% effective damaging uptime on a target as a Powertech is going to get.

 

and you're complaining that the spec is inefficient because they spent 3 points on Superheated Gas? You're the one that posted a spec deep enough into the Shieldtech Tree to get the 5 points in extra shielding, at talent that at best will provide 1% mitigation per point investment and at lower gear levels is even more inefficient. Those same points could have at least reduced your Quell cooldown and given you much better mileage in PvP.

 

Edit: Now your second spec certainly looks like a crap ton of damage and I had been meaning to try something similar out, but I'm addicted to Jet Charge since 90% of my games are Huttball. Let me know how that one works out for you.

Edited December 30, 2011 by chainsawsamurai

[chainsawsamurai]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMGdbRboMZMcZbIbbz.1

 

Well if the link works can u guys give me a critique on this build? I'm really loving railshot atm, but also liking the survivabilty of ST in PVP. I'm 41 now so still building but this should be my final build. I know it's wasted points in combustable to get Incendiary missle and superheated rail as I only run in Ion gas. I usually top the charts in PVP as far as protection and kills and such. I'm running the defensive lv40 pvp gear and my hit points are at around 15k and i'm pretty tough to kill. Any thoughts or do you guys think I should make a few changes?

 

I'm using something similar and you're really missing out by not having Prototype Particle Accelerator. In fact, Prototype Particle Accelerator is the entire reason why people bother to do ST/Pyro.

 

More frequent Rail Shots, which are free and refund 8 heat, is immensely powerful.

 

So powerful in fact that it is worth losing some Armor penetration on Rail Shot and your extra burn crit chance to make it happen (the extra burn only effects your Incin Dot and Flame Burst anyway in practical PvP situations, Flame Spin is already at 50%+ for AoE). Or lose all but the 30% pen that Pyro gives you and keep your RP 30% crit damage, I haven't really decided which is best since Rocket Punch crits reliably with Flame Shield and most classes are pretty squishy anyway.

[CallOfWookies]

After digesting what you said chain, this is the build I came up with atm.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMGbdRboZMs0MZb.1

 

I know chain suggested to avoid shield skills like a plague but honestly I want to get jet charge, and the first few skills of shieldtech isn't very good. The first and second row of shieldtech was a no brainer for me. Armor rating just isn't very good when there is a lot of internal dmg in pvp, but the 3rd row gave me trouble. It was basically shield chance/shield absorption VS rebraced armor, combust, and neural overload. And imo, neural overload is crap.

 

And this is where I am stuck, with 10 points to go...

 

I honestly don't want to put too many points in pyro as it requires me to change cylinders. I would like to keep it as ion if possible. So this is the final build I came up with.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMGbdRbRMZMsrMZb.1

 

I am stuck with 2 points left. Either retractable blade + 1 empowered tech, or 2 points in Quell CD reduction.

 

What do you guys think of the build so far, and where do you suggest the next 2 points go?

[chainsawsamurai]

I know chain suggested to avoid shield skills like a plague but honestly I want to get jet charge

 

No no, don't avoid shield talents like the plague! Most of the ones in ST are very good as they give you more than just shield chance. All I think you should avoid is Empowered Tech as the return on five whole talent points is pretty pathetic compared to extra damage or utility you could get elsewhere.

 

Either you have < 40% absorb and the talent is horribly inefficient or > 40% absorb and you're almost at a point where you don't need the damn thing anyway!

 

As for just wanting jet charge -- you and me both brother. The whole reason I made a damn shield tech is to have a rocket packing, flame throwing, melee character to beat up Force Users with. Shame they threw it in the tanking tree really.

 

I'll take a look at what you've posted and make some suggestions in an edit.

 

 

 

OK first of all, putting points in Pyro doesn't force you to change cylinders, it forces you to waste points in exchange for better damage, heat venting, and utility further down the line. If you're really against it, then Adv Proto can also put out some decent numbers (not as good as Pyro, but definitely better than full Shieldtech).

 

Neural overload is much better than you give it credit for. A 50% snare on your Rocket Punch for 2 seconds every 5-9 seconds is pretty decent. It also seems to proc fairly frequently for me just by using Rapid Shots.

 

I have a love/hate relationship with Oil Slick in PvP, same with Carbonize. Due to a bit of lag and how positioning is handled on the servers it seems like I only hit what I mean to hit with it half the time. I still use it and it is great when it does work, but meh.

 

I've never used Jet Speed, but I've never needed it because of No Escape and how well Jet Charge puts me on target (even moving targets with Resolve up).

 

Other than that, your Shieldtech talents look fine.

 

I'd definitely get Ret Blade. It is very good damage if it runs its full course, if it doesn't it is heat inefficient since your Rocket Punch puts a DoT up for Rail Shot anyway.

 

 

In my opinion, I'd drop Jet Speed entirely. That gives you 4 points. One in Retractable Blade, 2 in Hitman, and the last one in Neural Overload. The 2 second snare isn't great, but for 1 talent point it isn't bad and is up frequently enough. If you're married to Jet Speed then I'd still take Ret Blade and the last point either Neural Overload or 1 point in hitman.

Edited December 30, 2011 by chainsawsamurai

[Guntsu]

Missing out on your Heat Venting for a snare sounds like robbing Peter to pay Paul. Adv Proto is fairly heat efficient already (Incin vs Ret Blade and TD vs Immolate) and it might be a decent trade off, but my gut says it's a wash.

 

Yup thats the one glaring flaw now you could move two points from Intimidation and into Gyroscopic Aligments for heat venting.

 

I will try this spec once I hit 50, I feel the only thing Adv AP needs to shine is a slow since its so meele driven.

[chainsawsamurai]

Yup thats the one glaring flaw now you could move two points from Intimidation and into Gyroscopic Aligments for heat venting.

 

I will try this spec once I hit 50, I feel the only thing Adv AP needs to shine is a slow since its so meele driven.

 

Actually that might not work out too bad at all.

[Gwarh]

ChainsawSamurai

 

I'd really like to see your post some lvl 50 specs here. I'm really grooving on your ideas and what your posting here, and I'd like to try out some of your builds to see how they work for me.

[CallOfWookies]

Ok after the edit by chain, this is the ST/Proto build:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hRGbdRboMZMsrroZb.1

 

(just to make it convenient)

[Xpar]

Check out my pyrotech pvp vid. Mostly champion gear, valor rank 45.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KqJeyV56eM

[chainsawsamurai]

ChainsawSamurai

 

I'd really like to see your post some lvl 50 specs here. I'm really grooving on your ideas and what your posting here, and I'd like to try out some of your builds to see how they work for me.

 

Most of the builds I would recommend have been posted already. There really isn't a heck of a lot of variation in the talent trees. Everything that can be covered has pretty much already been covered. I'll repost the core of what I fiddle around with here just to recap I guess.

 

I wont be posting any deep Adv Proto or Pyro trees. Not because I don't think they are valid specs, they're fine and they do a lot of damage, but they are easy enough to figure out on your own. Again, not much talent flexibility so going 31 points deep in one tree pretty much chooses them for you.

 

Also I think most of what people are interested in is builds that let them keep Jet Charge. Let's quit beating around the bush here: 80% of your games are going to be Huttball and Grapple doesn't cut it in that arena compared to Jet Charge. Not even close. It also falls short when a mass of people are trying to activate a cannon node or bomb/diffuse a door. There is no substitute for YOU being where YOU need to be when you need to be there.

 

 

 

This is a pretty solid ST/Adv Proto build:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hRGbdRboMZMsrroZb.1

 

Decent damage, the Quell cooldown helps. Since Quell only locks out one spell for 4 seconds, not an entire class of spells, every trick to interrupt really helps. You also gain 2% flat mitigation from Powered Armor and a shorter cooldown on Grapple so it being buggy should irritate you 10 whole seconds less.

 

I honestly don't have a heck of a lot of love for Retractable Blade. Aside from the animation. Ret Blade -> Rail Shot is not actually any more efficient than Incin -> Rail shot with a hybrid Pyro build and they get to do that at 30 meters. This is a solid and proven PvP tanking spec however so it is worth consideration. I enjoy it, but the hybrid Pyro spec fits me better.

 

 

This is my current build.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hRrbdRboZ0MZbIbbdh.1

Edit: This link was wrong, I was pushing out specs quickly and wasn't paying attention. To be clear, this uses ION cylinder as a PvP tank.

 

 

I was full Shieldtech. I do not miss the survivability at all. Some people cry that I'm "wasting" 3 points in Superheated Gas, but most of our talents are mediocre filler anyway and that 3 point investment is necessary for the meat of Pyrotech which is absolutely amazing. Free Rail Shots refunding 8 Heat. Incin -> Rail Shot at up to 30 meters. Lots of mobility. Great heat venting. This spec has everything.

 

There are technically 2 floater points here. Either Extra Armor penetration on Rail Shot or extra crit damage on Rocket Punch/flame sweep. I'm no mathologist, but most targets are pretty squishy anyway and RP has 50%+ chance to crit so it should be fairly even. I go extra armor pen because RS crits are more satisfying when they do occur, might experiment some more with the other way though. Electro-dart cooldown is also an option I suppose, but not as satisfying of one.

 

You could also hypothetically use Combustible Cylinder and do some really half-assed dps in Flash Points. The damage really isn't attrocious, but not as good as full 31 in Adv Proto or Pyro. Those suckers slog it everywhere to punch things though, you get to look like a stark-raving bad *** with a Jetpack.

 

Like an old Green Beret friend told me: "If you know what you're doing: Look good. If you don't know what you're doing: Look good." (In reference to why he was wearing expensive sunglasses in a combat zone. Jetpacking in to do mediocre DPS is a fair comparison).

 

 

 

I haven't tried this one, but it was posted in Beta and I wanted to try it. Jet Charge and Huttball are the only things keeping me away:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301ZMsrrobckzZfhrbzh.1

 

Should be great damage with Rail Shot and Rocket Punch procs, fairly consistent damage as well, but not as many Rail Shots as you get with the ST/Pyro build. You lose Jet Charge but maintain a snare and get Hydraulic Overrides which, excluding stun, is almost like an on demand full Resolve bar.

 

If you get good at keeping track of your Resolve and using Hydraulic Overrides well, you will get a decent amount of mobility out of this spec (same could be said for any Adv Proto spec, though lacking the offensive snare).

 

There is technically a floater point in this one. I put it in Kolto Vents, it sort of sucks but remember it isn't a tanking cooldown, just a pick-me-up. It wont save you from focus fire, just give you a bit more juice when you need it. You can put that point wherever you want really, but it wont make too much of a difference.

 

 

 

Again, 31 point in one tree specs are really fairly straight forward and the only modification on the cookie cutters that I'd recommend is the suggestion a previous poster made about a 31 pt Advanced Prototype using Combustible Gas Cylinder with Bursting Flames for a snare and picking up Gyroscopic Alignment Jets for Heat Venting.

Edited December 30, 2011 by chainsawsamurai

[brypoint]

I'm using something similar and you're really missing out by not having Prototype Particle Accelerator. In fact, Prototype Particle Accelerator is the entire reason why people bother to do ST/Pyro.

 

More frequent Rail Shots, which are free and refund 8 heat, is immensely powerful.

 

So powerful in fact that it is worth losing some Armor penetration on Rail Shot and your extra burn crit chance to make it happen (the extra burn only effects your Incin Dot and Flame Burst anyway in practical PvP situations, Flame Spin is already at 50%+ for AoE). Or lose all but the 30% pen that Pyro gives you and keep your RP 30% crit damage, I haven't really decided which is best since Rocket Punch crits reliably with Flame Shield and most classes are pretty squishy anyway.

 

 

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hRGbbRboZ0MZfhbbdh.1

Ok so your saying go this way? I guess this certainly looks plausible, Once I hit 60 I'll be able to play around a little and see whats what.. But I do like the looks of this =)

[chainsawsamurai]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hRGbbRboZ0MZfhbbdh.1

Ok so your saying go this way? I guess this certainly looks plausible, Once I hit 60 I'll be able to play around a little and see whats what.. But I do like the looks of this =)

 

 

That would be my personal advice, yes. Again, technically 2 floater points and I'm not sure if the Armor pen from Puncture or the crit damage bonus on Rocket Punch from Flame Surge is better. Probably depends a lot on how much crit you have, the less crit you have the better Flame Surge is (Rocket Punch is 50%+ anyway) and the more you have the better Puncture is (Crit Rail Shots making better use of the penetration).

 

Like I said, I'd have to experiment with both of them some more to figure out exactly how everything works out, but I'd wager I'm right in my assessment of the two talents.

 

 

Also I wouldnt wait until 60 to try that spec. 50 is fine and there is no telling when the next expansion will be.

[brypoint]

 

 

Also I wouldnt wait until 60 to try that spec. 50 is fine and there is no telling when the next expansion will be.

 

ROFL yah yah right... waiting on expansion could be awhile..

[Trungalung]

Currently ST/Pyro 21/2/18 with DPS gears, spec feels amazing with survivability, mobility, and damage. However, now I'm having a new problem of which PvP set to pick: Combat Tech or Eliminator. Combat Tech has a good all around bonuses, but the 4pc of Eliminator comes with a 15% crit chance on Rail Shot (2 pc is worthless since it reduces Jet Boost). The 4 pc of Combat Tech gives 15% crit to RB, but I feel like it is overkill since I'm running around with 25% crit chance + shield vent talent.

[Gwarh]

Most of the builds I would recommend have been posted already. There really isn't a heck of a lot of variation in the talent trees. Everything that can be covered has pretty much already been covered. I'll repost the core of what I fiddle around with here just to recap I guess.

 

Thaks for taking the time to post those builds and your further thoughts ChaninsawSamurai. I really appreciate your tips/advice/insights.

[Daralith]

I know there has been a lot of advice claiming against Heat Blast, but it is incredibly useful to drop to different heat tiers. The damage 31/8/2 gives is good anyways. I commonly pull 250-300k damage at level 50. I am still using a level 46 weapon.

[chainsawsamurai]

I know there has been a lot of advice claiming against Heat Blast, but it is incredibly useful to drop to different heat tiers. The damage 31/8/2 gives is good anyways. I commonly pull 250-300k damage at level 50. I am still using a level 46 weapon.

 

Is it as useful to drop different heat tiers as Rail Shot costing nothing and refunding 8 heat?

 

Did I mention that Rail Shot cools down much more frequently than Heat Blast with proper talenting?

 

Heat management for the ST/Pyro spec is absolutely unreal. There are times when you are mashing Flame Burst, Rails Shot, and Rocket Punch nonstop and worried about hitting 0 heat.

 

Still not quite as much damage as Pyrotech, and not as Bursty, but it is as damn close as anyone with Jet Charge is going to get. Amazing spec that I fall a little bit more in love with every day.

[BMaster]

This is my current build.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#30...boZ0MZfhbbdh.1

 

I was full Shieldtech. I do not miss the survivability at all. Some people cry that I'm "wasting" 3 points in Superheated Gas, but most of our talents are mediocre filler anyway and that 3 point investment is necessary for the meat of Pyrotech which is absolutely amazing. Free Rail Shots refunding 8 Heat. Incin -> Rail Shot at up to 30 meters. Lots of mobility. Great heat venting. This spec has everything.

 

There are technically 2 floater points here. Either Extra Armor penetration on Rail Shot or extra crit damage on Rocket Punch/flame sweep. I'm no mathologist, but most targets are pretty squishy anyway and RP has 50%+ chance to crit so it should be fairly even. I go extra armor pen because RS crits are more satisfying when they do occur, might experiment some more with the other way though. Electro-dart cooldown is also an option I suppose, but not as satisfying of one.

 

You could also hypothetically use Combustible Cylinder and do some really half-assed dps in Flash Points. The damage really isn't attrocious, but not as good as full 31 in Adv Proto or Pyro. Those suckers slog it everywhere to punch things though, you get to look like a stark-raving bad *** with a Jetpack.

 

Like an old Green Beret friend told me: "If you know what you're doing: Look good. If you don't know what you're doing: Look good." (In reference to why he was wearing expensive sunglasses in a combat zone. Jetpacking in to do mediocre DPS is a fair comparison).

 

chainsawsamurai can you please explain to me why you take busting flames over integrated cardio package in tier 1? If your never using CGC why would you not take the extra 3% endurance, and if you are using CGC in some situations do you really not want the snare? Otherwise i really like your build, might make a few minor personal adjustments.

[chainsawsamurai]

chainsawsamurai can you please explain to me why you take busting flames over integrated cardio package in tier 1? If your never using CGC why would you not take the extra 3% endurance, and if you are using CGC in some situations do you really not want the snare? Otherwise i really like your build, might make a few minor personal adjustments.

 

You don't use CGC, you use ION. Those three points are "wasted" to get significantly better talents up the line. It looks strange to have the one talent tied to CGC and not use it, but you've got a million talents in Shieldtech tied to ION. You still get the snare, it's just ION's version which is tied to Rocket Punch.

 

You might be able to modify the build to make CGC viable, but anything interesting in Shieldtech requires ION. The rest is filler crap.

 

The obvious perk of using ION is the ability to use guard, which can turn battles if used right and racks up easy medals/valor. The obvious downside is needing to use Incendiary Missile for a burn debuff. Generally that isn't so bad as the build has ridiculous Heat management if you've got incoming damage/CC, heat only really becomes a problem for rapid target switching due to the cost of Incin.

 

In fact, heat with this build is SO good I find myself not stressing if I'm ~60-70 heat. I have burned it off to nothing before and if I don't this time I'll just blow Vent Heat at my convenience.

 

If you are really against Integrated Cardio Package (I admit I'm really not crazy about it, the difference is pretty moot. Although I did turn around a nasty 1v1 by almost that exact margin tonight), then you could take Bursting Flames and maybe do some craptastic DPS in Flashpoints with the spec. Probably not THAT bad as the build still has decent heat efficiency without shielding due to the free/refund 8 heat Rail Shots, but I really don't think it could compete with a full Pyro Build. No one has DPS meters though, so I wont tell them you have a ****** DPS/tank/pvp spec if you don't. Secret is safe with me bro.

 

 

I've been using this build and fiddling with it for a bit now and honestly there are only 4 points I am unsure about or would consider changing.

 

The first 2 is whether to put 2 points in Degauss or Infrared Sensors in Pyrotech. I'm getting good mileage out of Infrared Sensors for now and am not crazy about Degauss, but you could consider it an option. I am almost positive this is the correct decision for this build, at least as I play it.

 

The other 2 I'm less sure about. That is whether to put 2 points into Puncture for a total of 70% penetration on Rail Shot, or to put them in Surging Flames for 30% crit damage on Rocket Punch (and Flame Spin, but Flame Spin is very situational). Currently I'm using Puncture, but Rocket Punch crits so reliably and most of your PvP targets have so little armor that Surging Flames might win me over. I think this is largely dependant on your crit chance, if you have enough to make Rail Shot crit reliably then Puncture is likely better, otherwise Flame Surge.

 

I could settle the Flame Surge/Puncture debate REALLY quick if I could get a damn combat log or parser.

 

I don't miss deep Shieldtech talents at all while I am tanking Flashpoints. Healers haven't complained and I've even gotten comments about how sturdy I am, though I'm not doing super high end content and it sounds like most other tanks aren't very smart. Lose a bit of mitigation, gain better Heat management than Heat Blast due to getting much more Rail Shots and the single-target threat output is probably about as good as you're going to get. I've gone entire boss fights without using Rapid Shots at all (admittedly that was pretty lucky) and just using Flame Burst, Rocket Punch, and Rail Shot stopping only long enough for a defensive cooldown here and there.

Edited December 30, 2011 by chainsawsamurai

[chainsawsamurai]

I know there has been a lot of advice claiming against Heat Blast, but it is incredibly useful to drop to different heat tiers. The damage 31/8/2 gives is good anyways. I commonly pull 250-300k damage at level 50. I am still using a level 46 weapon.

 

I keep hearing numbers like this. What the hell kinds of Warzones are you guys playing that go on that long?

 

It's a damn gunfight not a marathon, just get it the **** over with already.

 

My server nothing drags on long enough for even top geared Sorcs to do 250k.

 

Wrap it up and go to the next game already.