A Powertech PvP Thread

[BMaster]

You don't use CGC, you use ION. Those three points are "wasted" to get significantly better talents up the line. It looks strange to have the one talent tied to CGC and not use it, but you've got a million talents in Shieldtech tied to ION. You still get the snare, it's just ION's version which is tied to Rocket Punch.

 

I think we are both a little confused. In the build you linked as your current, you have 3 points into bursting flame, granting flame burst 100% chance to proc CGC, when you could just move those points to get 3% endurance (same tier) and they are not 'wasted' you're getting more health and still able to move up the tree. Not sure if that was just an over site when putting the points into the build? or if that is really the way you have it. I dont want to use CGC, and it sounds like your not either, so why not just take the free 3% endurance over a talent that is getting you nothing?

 

not trying to flame, or sound like I am yelling just trying to clear confusion.

 

As far as infrared over Degauss I am in the same boat as you. I dont see either really doing much for PvE tanking, so it comes down to Huttball vs. Other BG's. Degauss seems like it would work better in huttball, but is it necessary with jet charge. In other BG's infrared seems better to catch those stealth bastards sneaking around. Does the 2% to range really help at all, seems to me to be too minor to even consider?

[chainsawsamurai]

I think we are both a little confused. In the build you linked as your current, you have 3 points into bursting flame, granting flame burst 100% chance to proc CGC, when you could just move those points to get 3% endurance (same tier) and they are not 'wasted' you're getting more health and still able to move up the tree. Not sure if that was just an over site when putting the points into the build? or if that is really the way you have it. I dont want to use CGC, and it sounds like your not either, so why not just take the free 3% endurance over a talent that is getting you nothing?

 

not trying to flame, or sound like I am yelling just trying to clear confusion.

 

As far as infrared over Degauss I am in the same boat as you. I dont see either really doing much for PvE tanking, so it comes down to Huttball vs. Other BG's. Degauss seems like it would work better in huttball, but is it necessary with jet charge. In other BG's infrared seems better to catch those stealth bastards sneaking around. Does the 2% to range really help at all, seems to me to be too minor to even consider?

 

No you're completely right, I messed up the link initially. 3% endurance is a little lame, but not "wasted." I'd assumed you were talking about Superheated Gas since that is what people normally refer to with "wasted" talents in the spec.

 

I've fixed the link, thanks for catching it. I've been up all night because I'm going to catch a flight in a couple hours so I'm all sorts of wonky right now.

 

I don't feel Degauss is at all necessary with Jet Charge. Infrared Sensors lets me catch other players out of stealth very frequently, and a 15 second cooldown on Sensor Scan with No Escape talented is very nice. Even when you don't catch them far enough out to attack, you'll still see it coming and it makes a big mindset difference.

 

Degauss also only removes those effects, it confers no immunity. You're likely to have something else reapplied and be back to square one, but with a defensive cooldown potentially wasted. I'd recommend Degauss only to deep Pyro players who don't have any other mobility options.

 

As to the Range and Melee defense on Stealth Scan, 2% mitigation is 2% mitigation. Is it great? No, not really, but considering you get 1% mitigation per talent point investment AND the extra stealth related bonuses it is a much better usage of Talent Points than half the crap in the Shieldtech tree. I can't say I particularly notice it, but the talent still wins my affections over Degauss.

[lord-Origine]

here vid of BOUNTY HUNTER Advanced Prototype & Shuild build.

 

 

 

ENJOYE

[Sayuri-chan]

I keep hearing numbers like this. What the hell kinds of Warzones are you guys playing that go on that long?

 

It's a damn gunfight not a marathon, just get it the **** over with already.

 

My server nothing drags on long enough for even top geared Sorcs to do 250k.

 

Wrap it up and go to the next game already.

 

you would be surprised when Pyro can hit 500k damage done

 

anyways just by defending BH can hit these numbers easily. even lvl 20's BH can pump as much damage btw

[chainsawsamurai]

you would be surprised when Pyro can hit 500k damage done

 

anyways just by defending BH can hit these numbers easily. even lvl 20's BH can pump as much damage btw

 

Yeah I've never seen numbers like that, not even close. I can't even fathom what those games must be like.

 

I'm picturing huttball games where everyone just clusters in the middle for AoE and ignores the ball so the game goes the full duration. I can't imagine any game with either side making a concerted effort to win and get it over with having those sorts of numbers involved.

 

I love Steve Blum's announcing as much as the next guy, but jeez get on with it already.

Edited December 30, 2011 by chainsawsamurai

[Spifnar]

You can see big Total Damage numbers in matches where the healers are more skilled than the DPS (both sides). When it takes 30k damage to kill someone because no one knows how to assist or burst.

 

Not trying to insult anyone...it's probably the other guy who doesn't know how to burst/assist or CC a healer

[Daralith]

Is it as useful to drop different heat tiers as Rail Shot costing nothing and refunding 8 heat?

 

Did I mention that Rail Shot cools down much more frequently than Heat Blast with proper talenting?

 

Heat management for the ST/Pyro spec is absolutely unreal. There are times when you are mashing Flame Burst, Rails Shot, and Rocket Punch nonstop and worried about hitting 0 heat.

 

Still not quite as much damage as Pyrotech, and not as Bursty, but it is as damn close as anyone with Jet Charge is going to get. Amazing spec that I fall a little bit more in love with every day.

 

If survivability is of the utmost importance, then you'd spend more points into shield tech. In that case, there's no point to skip the talent. If you're willing to sacrifice a bit of shielding and skip flame surge, then I don't see anything wrong with your idea. I definitely prefer your tree over a retractable blade StormGut style.

[brazthemad]

If survivability is of the utmost importance, then you'd spend more points into shield tech. In that case, there's no point to skip the talent. If you're willing to sacrifice a bit of shielding and skip flame surge, then I don't see anything wrong with your idea. I definitely prefer your tree over a retractable blade StormGut style.

 

I fully plan on doing the ST / pyro spec when I get back to my computer post-Holidays. I'm intrigued by all the stuff that seems to require CGC proccing off of incendiary missile. Seems like a huuuge advantage in pvp for when you can't quite manage to close the gap or you're getting kited and your jet charge/grapple are on cooldown.

[Eepo]

How come powertechs are the only melee class that doesn't have a baseline gap closer ability? Knights/warriors have their leap, Assassins/Shadows have their sprint and stealth and Scoundrels/Operatives have their stealth aswell. Only thing powertech has as baseline is grapple which is a 45s cd comparing to leap's 15 is ridiculous. Also our only slows are 2s long while the others have longer ones.

 

For a long time I played a tank spec just because in huttball having that jet charge is invaluable because of the amount of knockbacks in the game. Today I had to respec to be able to dps. I did some pvp after that and while sure I can kill stuff easier I felt useless in huttball because it was really hard to help my team to score.

 

I love the class but I feel it's utility isn't really up to par to other melee classes. What do you guys think? They should atleast move jet charge to a lower tier or something.

 

I'm not an expert in PvP but I've done my fair share of it and the knockbacks mostly screw me over because of lag. So many times I've been thrown into directions that weren't possible according to my screen. I think I have to try that hybrid st/fb build you guys posted about earlier and see how it goes. Should I aim for tanky or dps gear while using it?

Edited December 31, 2011 by Eepo

[chainsawsamurai]

How come powertechs are the only melee class that doesn't have a baseline closer ability? Knights/warriors have their leap, Assassins/Shadows have their sprint and stealth and Scoundrels/Operatives have their stealth aswell. Only thing powertech has as baseline is grapple which is a 45s cd comparing to leap's 15 is ridiculous. Also our only slows are 2s long and the others have longer ones.

 

For a long time I played a tank spec just because in huttball having that jet charge is invaluable because of the amount of knockbacks in the game. Today I had to respec to be able to dps. I did some pvp after that and while sure I can kill stuff easier I felt useless in huttball because it was really hard to help my team to score.

 

I love the class but I feel it's utility isn't really up to par to other melee classes. What do you guys think? They should atleast move jet charge to a lower tier or something.

 

I'm not an expert in PvP but I've done my fair share of it and the knockbacks mostly screw me over because of lag. So many times I've been thrown into directions that weren't possible according to my screen. I think I have to try that hybrid st/fb build you guys posted about earlier and see how it goes. Should I aim for tanky or dps gear while using it?

 

I completely agree tbh, I'm ST/Pyro for the same reasons.

 

We are Bounty Hunters. Our most iconic equipment is our Jetpack.

 

We are Melee Bounty Hunters. Therefore our most iconic ability is Jet Charge.

 

 

 

To really blow your mind... Now for a brief history of Powertechs!

 

(disclaimer: I wasn't in early beta, just some weekend access here and there, but I've done some homework and a fair bit of talking around so while this is all second-hand ********, it is half-assed researched second-hand ********).

 

Powertechs are born. Our Shieldtech tree is entirely different and apparently had a "second shield" mechanic that some people raved about but I know absolutely nothing about. A bunch of really awesome abilities are baseline, to include Jet Charge, and our talent trees had some really neat goodies in them. With Jet Charge baseline, the class was obviously so awesome it could fart cocaine snorting unicorns, and the people rejoiced!

 

The class goes through some highs and lows and eventually the talent trees are severely changed. A lot of neat talents go right out the window and are replaced by nifty baseline abilties going into those trees where the talents used to be. As a result, we lose Jet Charge.

 

At some point around this time the BH class hits an all time low, I hear nothing but bad from the people I knew.

 

Things get better again, I'm not sure how, I'm not sure when. Who the hell are you to question me about it anyway? You're out of your jurisdiction.

 

Around about my first Beta weekend, Jet charge is 11 points in Shiedtech and some other things got changed. Combining Jet Charge, Grapple, and Hydraulic Overrides leads to some Adv Proto Powertechs dominating in Huttball because no one was smart enough to stun them when Hydraulic Overrides is up. People cry a lot, their feelings are hurt. Instead of realizing that Hydraulic Overrides is retarded and a stupid way to alleviate Adv Proto having neither a proper gap closer nor a snare, BW blames easy access to Jet Charge and moves it up to 21 in Shieldtech.

 

 

This brings us to present day when we have to take the Shieldtech corn-holing in order to have the absolute coolest reason to be a Melee Bounty Hunter, Jet Charge. People who haven't tried Jet Charge have no idea what they're missing as it is easily the most fun and useful ability melee Bounty Hunters, but the rest of us -- the enlightened -- will never stop feeling that longing urge for Jet Charge (the mobility, graphics, and sound are everything you want your Powertech to be and more).

 

 

Look on the bright side, instead of Jet Charge you get Grapple which has a horrible cooldown, breaks for absolutely no reason (in more than one way), can't close a gap on someone with resolve active like Leap or a Sprint can, has an unreasonable animation delay for a gap closer/interrupt, doesn't even come with a damn root without tanking talents, and is unusable as PvE dps because the stupid thing has a crap ton of threat on it (and you'd separate the mobs and be a dick to the tank anyway, so taking the threat off wouldn't even help).

 

 

P.S. Grapple is stupid. Enjoy yanking people into Huttball traps and thinking you're Pro followed by 45 seconds of mediocrity.

 

Edit:

I think I have to try that hybrid st/fb build you guys posted about earlier and see how it goes. Should I aim for tanky or dps gear while using it?

'

 

Shieldtech/Firebug? Listen to you, soundin' real ol' school up in here.

 

The ST/Pyro build works with either DPS or Tank gear. Performs pretty differently depending on how you build obviously. I'm currently toying around with DPS gear, I think if I gave Tank gear another try (which I probably will, I like both styles and it feels really different despite being the same spec) I would move the 2 points out of Puncture and in to Flame Surge. With Tank gear Rocket Punch is the only consistently critting ability you have so enhancing it's damage makes more sense to me in a PvP environment than giving Rail Shot more penetration.

Edited December 31, 2011 by chainsawsamurai

[FuzzyMuffins]

IMO 28 pyrotech is the way to go. My survivability i amazing, assuming i play smart and i am at least 150k ahead in damage. I have had games of over 500k damage and 70+ kills while the closest person to me is at 200k damage/ 40 kills.

 

Incen missile sucks, and i never use it honestly unless i cant close the gap on someone, and i havent had a class able to completely own me 1v1. the closest a class gets to killing me is a sorc. 1v1 no prob, 2v1 no prob 3v1 hard but easy with the right tactics.

[Eepo]

I completely agree tbh, I'm ST/Pyro for the same reasons.

 

We are Bounty Hunters. Our most iconic equipment is our Jetpack.

 

We are Melee Bounty Hunters. Therefore our most iconic ability is Jet Charge.

 

 

 

To really blow your mind... Now for a brief history of Powertechs!

 

 

Okay that shed some light to how things have changed since beta. Jet charge was one of the primary reasons I rolled powertech instead of mercenary but after some time I realised that shieldtech does crap dps and I really can't kill much without other dpsers around. The skill trees are also set up in kinda irritating way that they force you to use the tree's own cylinder and it's hard to hybridize. Also is it just me or is a powertech tank way more squishier than a jugger tank? There are also entirely useless talent in the trees like Kolto Vents in adv. pt. 7% hot over 10s in a 2min cd? No thanks.

[chainsawsamurai]

Okay that shed some light to how things have changed since beta. Jet charge was one of the primary reasons I rolled powertech instead of mercenary but after some time I realised that shieldtech does crap dps and I really can't kill much without other dpsers around. The skill trees are also set up in kinda irritating way that they force you to use the tree's own cylinder and it's hard to hybridize. Also is it just me or is a powertech tank way more squishier than a jugger tank? There are also entirely useless talent in the trees like Kolto Vents in adv. pt. 7% hot over 10s in a 2min cd? No thanks.

 

A baseline comparison of ST vs Juggs is that we're about the same amount of survivability. Filler talents don't really make that big of a difference either way.

 

However their 31 point talent is freaking amazing and they have significantly better mitigation cooldowns than we do. They also get a bubble on one of their commonly used attacks, it isn't great in PvE allegedly but in PvP it certainly makes a difference.

 

The trade off is also pretty lousy, they have really lame AoE. Which if you only care about PvP doesn't really matter, but for tanking it is a hassle and a half.

 

So the class with the awesome mitigation cooldowns has to work three times as hard to hold multiple mobs. The class with all the AoE in the world has to have their healer work 3 times as hard to keep them up. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

[Eepo]

A baseline comparison of ST vs Juggs is that we're about the same amount of survivability. Filler talents don't really make that big of a difference either way.

 

However their 31 point talent is freaking amazing and they have significantly better mitigation cooldowns than we do. They also get a bubble on one of their commonly used attacks, it isn't great in PvE allegedly but in PvP it certainly makes a difference.

 

The trade off is also pretty lousy, they have really lame AoE. Which if you only care about PvP doesn't really matter, but for tanking it is a hassle and a half.

 

So the class with the awesome mitigation cooldowns has to work three times as hard to hold multiple mobs. The class with all the AoE in the world has to have their healer work 3 times as hard to keep them up. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

 

Yeah I should have clarified that about the cooldowns. A powertech can't really do much to help his healer. Energy Shield is on a long cooldown and Oil Slick isn't always enough. Sure I can aggro the aoe packs but I can't last through them what's the point? I really wish they'll put out a big patch soon that addresses all the problems the game has.

[chainsawsamurai]

Yeah I should have clarified that about the cooldowns. A powertech can't really do much to help his healer. Energy Shield is on a long cooldown and Oil Slick isn't always enough. Sure I can aggro the aoe packs but I can't last through them what's the point? I really wish they'll put out a big patch soon that addresses all the problems the game has.

 

Oil Slick is godawful actually. You're still stupid if you don't take it, since everything counts when you need damage mitigated, but it doesn't do a heck of a lot for us.

 

The game uses 2 rolls, not 1 like wow. So it isn't like us adding some mitigation through lowering their accuracy is actually helping us shield more or push crits and normal hits off the table. Additionally we don't really actively stack Defense so it is upping our weak roll by a pretty lousy amount. Sure it is 20% more avoidance, and it lasts a decent amount of time, but with ~30% uptime we're talking about ~6% more avoidance overall for a protracted fight.

 

That sounds alright for one talent point, but the ability is wonky how it works. For starters the Oil Slick has to "hit" whatever it is going to lower the accuracy of. I'm not sure if there is an actual roll to hit (I don't know, but it makes sense it could be resisted), but only things within the radius of the Oil Slick when it is cast are effected, it isn't a persistent effect.

 

That, in of itself, isn't too bad if we were tanking other MMOs where the mobs all stack up nice neat and polite to be hit by those kinds of effects. We're not. We're playing TOR. Here we have a lot of ranged enemies and those enemies like to stay ranged. The melee enemies also don't stack up in each other an spread all around you, so any given time you drop an Oil Slick you are bound to miss few of the mobs in the pack anyway and not even get the full amount of protection you think you're going to get.

 

In PvP it is awful. It has about the same radius as Carbonize and as anyone who has used that in a moving environment can tell you, it can be a real crap shoot to affect anyone with it, let alone multiple people. Lots of movement and just a little bit of latency can have you missing the Marauder you wanted to nail with it entirely, but for some damn reason hitting the Assassin who ducked out of melee range for a shock.

 

The class would be significantly better off if they gave us something that boosted flat mitigation some more, or if it applied a Defense bonus to our self rather than an Accuracy penalty to the enemy.

 

The one and only perk of Oil Slick is that it can be used to protect someone else. This perk is invalidated by a good tank holding aggro on himself (and I don't think Powertechs are going to be lining up to go 11 deep in ST while showing up as a DPS to protect the Tank some more) and trying to affect a cluster of people in PvP to protect your Healer or Ball Handler [obligatory ball handler joke redacted] is a crap-shoot.

 

Even talking specifically about protecting your healer, the Jugg's Intercede ability is much better at that than Oil Slick because it is flat reduction rather than an accuracy penalty and will protect all incoming damage just the same rather than having to actually hit the guys with the debuff. Significantly better and more versatile.

 

That doesn't even mention how awesome it is for a ball handler to leap to his healer to gain some more ground. It's like passing, but better since the tough as nails guy doesn't have to hand it off to a squishy. Additionally, no one has to spec for intercede, it is baseline. So even a DPS Jugg can protect his healer and take advantage of that mobility.

 

I still take Oil Slick, I still use it, but I'm not at all happy about it. It is downright awful. I'm not even sure you get Protection Points for the misses it produces. I'm pretty sure Juggs get Protection Points from Intercede.

Edited December 31, 2011 by chainsawsamurai

[Eepo]

Oil Slick is godawful actually. You're still stupid if you don't take it, since everything counts when you need damage mitigated, but it doesn't do a heck of a lot for us.

 

The game uses 2 rolls, not 1 like wow. So it isn't like us adding some mitigation through lowering their accuracy is actually helping us shield more or push crits and normal hits off the table. Additionally we don't really actively stack Defense so it is upping our weak roll by a pretty lousy amount. Sure it is 20% more avoidance, and it lasts a decent amount of time, but with ~30% uptime we're talking about ~6% more avoidance overall for a protracted fight.

 

That sounds alright for one talent point, but the ability is wonky how it works. For starters the Oil Slick has to "hit" whatever it is going to lower the accuracy of. I'm not sure if there is an actual roll to hit (I don't know, but it makes sense it could be resisted), but only things within the radius of the Oil Slick when it is cast are effected, it isn't a persistent effect.

 

That, in of itself, isn't too bad if we were tanking other MMOs where the mobs all stack up nice neat and polite to be hit by those kinds of effects. We're not. We're playing TOR. Here we have a lot of ranged enemies and those enemies like to stay ranged. The melee enemies also don't stack up in each other an spread all around you, so any given time you drop an Oil Slick you are bound to miss few of the mobs in the pack anyway and not even get the full amount of protection you think you're going to get.

 

In PvP it is awful. It has about the same radius as Carbonize and as anyone who has used that in a moving environment can tell you, it can be a real crap shoot to affect anyone with it, let alone multiple people. Lots of movement and just a little bit of latency can have you missing the Marauder you wanted to nail with it entirely, but for some damn reason hitting the Assassin who ducked out of melee range for a shock.

 

The class would be significantly better off if they gave us something that boosted flat mitigation some more, or if it applied a Defense bonus to our self rather than an Accuracy penalty to the enemy.

 

The one and only perk of Oil Slick is that it can be used to protect someone else. This perk is invalidated by a good tank holding aggro on himself (and I don't think Powertechs are going to be lining up to go 11 deep in ST while showing up as a DPS to protect the Tank some more) and trying to affect a cluster of people in PvP to protect your Healer or Ball Handler [obligatory ball handler joke redacted] is a crap-shoot.

 

Even talking specifically about protecting your healer, the Jugg's Intercede ability is much better at that than Oil Slick because it is flat reduction rather than an accuracy penalty and will protect all incoming damage just the same rather than having to actually hit the guys with the debuff. Significantly better and more versatile.

 

That doesn't even mention how awesome it is for a ball handler to leap to his healer to gain some more ground. It's like passing, but better since the tough as nails guy doesn't have to hand it off to a squishy. Additionally, no one has to spec for intercede, it is baseline. So even a DPS Jugg can protect his healer and take advantage of that mobility.

 

I still take Oil Slick, I still use it, but I'm not at all happy about it. It is downright awful.

 

Ofc I take it when I'm in a tanking spec. But I can't think of more than one occasion where it has really helped killing stuff. That was when me and 5-7 guildies were killing tatoiine's world boss. He does this aoe smash and I was depsing back then because a higher level guy was tanking the boss. So I predicted the time of the aoe smash and used oil slick just before it and most of the time he'd miss the aoe because of the slick. It seemed to work that either it hit us all or none of us though I might be wrong in this.

 

Its not really a good skill but one has to take everything that helps when tanking.

[DuffAlmighty]

Currently shield spec.

 

I want to go AP, but no gap closer, and lose alot if spec into Pyrotechs snare.? I dont fancy being a ret paladin.

[Tindahbawx]

Guys if I'm only lvl 16 at the minute, and going advanced proto, I want to carry on using CGC in PvP to get rail procs, and carry on doing so till I can unlock Retractable Blade, at which point I can use that for rail procs, and switch to ION for more survivability?

 

Or should I simply forget all that and roll a pryo build till I have enough points to respec and grab retractable blade?

[Agroovesak]

Level 20 comes fast, don't worry bout respeccing if you know you want to try Proto first. Just turn on CGC for now and use blaster attacks. Or stun them first then rail them.

[Teacosy]

to the guy who claims he never sees high numbers, i currently hit 300k pretty much every warzone and end up with 10 or so medals depending, i play the objective and everything.

 

if i dont hit 300k im dissapointed unless we 3-0d in alderaan/6-0d in huttball incredibly quickly.

 

i hit450-500k often aswell.