A Powertech PvP Thread

[Xsorus]

When you are in ION in pvp, how is heat management? I read somewhere where a person was complaining about it.

 

Not a huge deal, usually I have enough burst to bring someone down fairly easy.

[TristQueloon]

I know this is a PvP thread. But just a quick questions about PvE tanking.

 

Anyone trying one of the 23 point Shieldtech specs?

 

Do you find yourself losing threat without with 31 point talent?

 

 

I love the PvP in this game, its my main way of leveling actually. However I been "nominated" to tank heroics and endgame eventually for my group of friends.

 

 

Will using says the last suggested build in the first post severly hurt my ability to tank? Mostly just worried about losing threat.

[chainsawsamurai]

I currently have all 31 in Shieldtech, it isn't very good.

 

It is a nice heat dump, but the damage is pretty pathetic. Taking Ion Cylinder into account it actually does less damage (and therefore threat) than Rapid Shots. For what? So you can Flame Burst more often? Flame Burst is pretty lame too.

 

Round about the time you pick up the 31 pointer you'll also pick up Thermal Sensor Override. TSO does a LOT more for my heat management in an "oh ****" situation than Heat Blast does.

 

I've been 31 deep for a while waiting on it to get better. It isn't going to. Heat Blast just isn't very good.

[TristQueloon]

I thought the point of HeatBlast was for AoE threat generation. Not so much damage, but keeping threat on packs of mobs for tanking.

 

Which is why I asked how hard would it affect group tanking in heroics and endgame not having it.

 

Not too worried about it not doing a ton of damage so much as keeping packs of mobs on me and off my healer/dps

[chainsawsamurai]

... it is a single-target attack.

 

Again, Thermal Sensor Override does more for my AoE threat generation, it allows a free Flame Spin, Flamethrower, Electric Dart, or DFA when I need it. Which is almost never. This class has a LOT of AoE in a game where large packs are usually chock full of normal mobs or silver "strong" mobs that the DPS can rip up before they're a problem anyway.

 

You don't need Heat Blast at all. It is pretty awful.

 

If you get into a situation where, by some miracle, you would have needed Heat Blast you probably just should have asked for some CC instead. That is what it is there for.

Edited December 28, 2011 by chainsawsamurai

[Waron]

Remember that Shield Chance is multiplied with Shield Absorbation to find the total mitigation. So speccing for Shield is all or nothing imo.

 

Therefore in my pvp spec I avoid shield chance like the plague and go for DR and Armor instead.

 

Maybe it will be worth it at 50 if you go full defensive PvP set, given that the shield stats on defensive pvp gear is around the same total as the end game raiding gear (wich i doubt)

 

That shield is trash if you don't go all in is bad game design imo, but that is another discussion.

[chainsawsamurai]

Remember that Shield Chance is multiplied with Shield Absorbation to find the total mitigation. So speccing for Shield is all or nothing imo.

 

Therefore in my pvp spec I avoid shield chance like the plague and go for DR and Armor instead.

 

Maybe it will be worth it at 50 if you go full defensive PvP set, given that the shield stats on defensive pvp gear is around the same total as the end game raiding gear (wich i doubt)

 

That shield is trash if you don't go all in is bad game design imo, but that is another discussion.

 

I completely agree. It seems our tanking tree is a little lacking compared to the Assassin and Juggernaut. In both in mitigation and damage. Centering the bulk of our defenses around the clunky shield mechanics likely has a lot to do with it.

[Libertine]

Remember that Shield Chance is multiplied with Shield Absorbation to find the total mitigation. So speccing for Shield is all or nothing imo.

 

Therefore in my pvp spec I avoid shield chance like the plague and go for DR and Armor instead.

 

Maybe it will be worth it at 50 if you go full defensive PvP set, given that the shield stats on defensive pvp gear is around the same total as the end game raiding gear (wich i doubt)

 

That shield is trash if you don't go all in is bad game design imo, but that is another discussion.

 

im playing 50 powertech atm with full shield spec and the rest dumped in advanced prototype and with about half the champion set i can assure you that nothing, and i really mean nothing, is going to kill you fast or easily.

valor rank 40 by now and so far i have yet to be beaten in 1v1 by any class i came up against...

 

shieldspec can soak up a serious ammount of damage ... i cant tell you how often ive scored in huttball and have 5 enemies hammering me and still manage to get away.

sure, you wont top damage done listing with shieldspec but youll be nearly impossible to kill in 1v1 and even 2v1 you can come out on top if youre willing to burn your cooldowns and a medpac.

50% shield chance, 50% absorption, 11% def... and as i said, thats only half the set...

[Agroovesak]

Even with just the full 40 set and 42 weapon (all defensive) I am extremely tanky. I've walked a huttball 1v6+ for quite a bit before. Damage is high if people are hitting you to trigger RP resets. If you are beating on somebody that is hitting somebody else you do little damage though. Usually better to just taunt and peel and be annoying so they have to attack you or nothign at all.

[chainsawsamurai]

50% shield chance, 50% absorption, 11% def... and as i said, thats only half the set..

 

That is significantly better than I thought it would get to. It seems I was struggling to get even to 30% so I have been experimenting with power and crit instead. It didn't seem worth it in the 40s.

 

50/50 is another 25% mitigation and I suppose that likely goes a long way. Does anyone know if the shield buffering is taken off the top (before armor) or the bottom (after armor and flat reductions) of the damage calculation?

 

What sort of damage can you put out? No offense, but I find it hard to believe that you can kill anything when your only decent hitting ability is Rocket Punch. Is it even possible to kill anything with heals or is it just a frustrating 10 minutes while they grind you down?

 

Would you consider dropping 10 points from Shieldtech (so 10% shield chance and heat blast for sure) for more damage from another tree?

 

How do you measure up to Juggernauts? They seem to get at least as much mitigation and more damage from their Tank tree.

Edited December 28, 2011 by chainsawsamurai

[Libertine]

That is significantly better than I thought it would get to. It seems I was struggling to get even to 30% so I have been experimenting with power and crit instead. It didn't seem worth it in the 40s.

 

50/50 is another 25% mitigation and I suppose that likely goes a long way. Does anyone know if the shield buffering is taken off the top (before armor) or the bottom (after armor and flat reductions) of the damage calculation?

 

What sort of damage can you put out? No offense, but I find it hard to believe that you can kill anything when your only decent hitting ability is Rocket Punch. Is it even possible to kill anything with heals or is it just a frustrating 10 minutes while they grind you down?

 

Would you consider dropping 10 points from Shieldtech (so 10% shield chance and heat blast for sure) for more damage from another tree?

 

How do you measure up to Juggernauts? They seem to get at least as much mitigation and more damage from their Tank tree.

 

i can output enough damage to kill the other guy, thats about as accurate as it gets.

healers are easy, you have quell, electrodart, carbonize and if youre at range jet charge or grapple to interrupt...

 

it doesnt matter that unlike a merc you dont have one hard hitting ability you spam, you just use lots of small ones and effectively outlast the other guy.

 

i was playing huttball the other day against a merc that i usually team up with for warzones and afterwards he said that powertech, even when i was not attacking him, is insanely hard to kill even with fusion missile spam.

[chainsawsamurai]

Everyone keeps saying quell like it is some sort of final solution to all your healing woes. It only locks out the one spell for 4 seconds and they're free to cast whatever they want for that 4 seconds and not much you can do for the next 8.

 

Carbonize and Dart work well enough, but I've always had issues getting Grapple and Charge to actually interrupt, it seems like there is a damn long delay on it. Like the interrupt doesn't actually trigger till I'm there (charge) or they're moving (grapple).

[Waron]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hRGRzorozZMsZbIbbz.1

 

22/6/13 - Interested how this spec would perform in pvp compared to the "StormGut" spec below, the extra range would certanly be a bonus in PvP, it also makes Rail Shot much more reliable at range for a Shield Tech. Can be useed on demand etc.

It also gets rid of heat better than the spec below with railshot venting 8 heat aslong as Incindiary dot is on your target,

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hRGRzRbRMZMsRroZb.1

Is more standard, StormGut, like the vanguards call it, has more room for changing it around since the first 2 tiers of the middle tree isn't as tight as the Pyrotech tree. You can also spec more defensive here, giving up utility for flat DR and/or Shield.

 

Range is king in pvp, but... the pyrotech tree is married to the Combustible Gas, pretty annoying design..

[chainsawsamurai]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#30...rozZMsZbIbbz.1

 

22/6/13 - Interested how this spec would perform in pvp compared to the "StormGut" spec below, the extra range would certanly be a bonus in PvP, it also makes Rail Shot much more reliable at range for a Shield Tech. Can be useed on demand etc.

It also gets rid of heat better than the spec below with railshot venting 8 heat aslong as Incindiary dot is on your target,

 

I recently respeced to something similar. You want the good news or the bad news?

 

The good news is that, damage wise, I certainly noticed a difference over a straight tank build.

 

You could also hypothetically use Combustible Gas Cylinder and pull exceptionally mediocre DPS in a Flashpoint if your guild already has a tank going along (well better than a straight tank spec anyway).

 

The bad news is, well plentiful.

 

To start, Pyrotech is not laid out very well as a talent tree. It is impossible to go past the second tier without "wasting" talent points. Depending on your point of view this will either be Superheated Gas or Superheated Gas AND Integrated Cardio package (the HP gain is abyssmal).

 

Gyroscopic Alignment jets is super noticable in PvP and if you're being hit you can count on having a lot of Heat venting going on. The bad part is that it is almost too much heat venting. If you're stunned for 4 seconds there goes 28+ heat (your proc and 4 ticks of 5, more if you get a shield proc as well) before you can even act again, so the talent almost encourages you to play recklessly with your Heat in PvP. This can go very poorly if you aren't being attacked.

 

Incendiary Missile is ok. I think Retractable Blade is just "ok" as well, but at least Incin Missile can be used at range (even with awesome mobility there are plenty of knockbacks, snares, etc and being able to missile -> Rail Shot is nice). It does comparable damage. less up front, but it is all elemental so it should be more over time.

 

The real bummer is that you're missing out on some key talents. Jockeying some things around to pick up Prototype Particle Accelerator would likely vastly improve the performance of this spec.

 

As for how this stands up against the StormGut spec (I think us PTs were calling it "The Scorpion" or something silly like that in beta, I don't remember), I don't really know. It feels comparable, has better Heat Venting, the potential to pick up better Stealth Detection or a snare break (neither of which are as neat as they sound in practice), and better ability to do a bit of damage and get off Rail Shots when you're stuck at range.

 

I think this spec will take some time to catch on. It will either need to perform more consistently than StormGut or Bioware will have to restructure Pyrotech (which they should, it is a nightmare to hybrid into), because most people can't get over "wasting" 3 talent points.

 

Sure those 3 (or 6) talent points seem wasted, but I think the net gain has more potential than StormGut. Espescially if you dive deep enough for Prototype Particle Accelerator.

[Waron]

Even if you're at 50% and 50% (wich I find unlikely) our next to last tier that gives 10% shield chance is still only 5% DR in the end.

 

40% chance x 50% absorb = 20% DR from wearing a shield

 

vs +10% chance 50%x50% = 25% DR.

 

If you don't consider gear bonuses though its only 32% chance and 26% Absorbation wich is 8.32% DR (this is FULLY specced into shield (aka 9 skill points and ion cell active)

 

Without talent 9 talent points into shield it's 20% x 20% so 4.0% DR. So you get 4.3% DR for 9 talent points, and you lose out on other better tiers. This is why I only go for flat DR atm, I'll recalculate once I have better shield gear avaliable.

[CallOfWookies]

Hi everyone, long time lurker, first time posting. And this post is very shieldtech specific.

 

Studying a lot of different builds this community has posted, I worked a couple of points around to come up with this build. I wasn't sure if combust is better or intimidation. What do you guys thing? :

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301RRMrdRbRgZbs0MZb.1

 

(I have no idea where to put the last point)

 

After reading through everyone's valid points ,however, I've been seriously thinking about abandoning full shield tech for pvp. Currently at lvl 36, I can't see the appeal of being shieldtech pvp. Its true I get a lot of points from using guard but aside from that my damage output is average at best and I am too squishy to survive 3+ people. With all the CC's, I feel like my health just plummets. My faith in shieldtech is dropping fast.

 

I know you are supposed to value shield rating > shield absorption > defense rating > endurance, but I still feel like I get mowed down too quickly. Currently I have 27% shield rating + shield absorption and I die fairly quickly in PvP (sometimes even in 1v1 situations). I always thought BH is supposed to value shield while lightsaber users are supposed to rely on defense(dodge). If thats the case, why do some people say shield is useless? Have I just been mistaken? If not shield then what should we rely on? Endurance..?

 

If you are one of the players who did well with shieldtech build, mind sharing with us the secrets to your success?

 

Much help is appreciated, thank you.

 

-another clueless shieldtechie

[chainsawsamurai]

what ^ dude said

 

Honestly I think you have far too few defensive items to even bother with trying to go that deep into the Shieldtech tree. I'd focus on damage.

 

Still want to PvP tank? Fine, load up ION, focus on damage gear, throw some guards and taunts around, but use a hybrid Jet Charge and either Adv Proto or Pyro build. They've been listed here a lot.

 

I have as much shield as you without stacking any right now. Giving up all the extra useless ******** in Shieldtech for some Pyro talents upped my damage considerably and the penalty to my defense isn't even noticable.

 

With that low amount of absorb your 5 talent points in the 10% shield talent are worth 2% actual mitigation. Giving up those abilities can net you more mitigation AND more damage from another tree.

 

I dont think those 5 talent points are going to be worth it for anyone until they hit -- bare minimum -- 30-40% absorb. Hell I wouldn't even think about going back until I hit closer to 50% and I got a full 5% mitigation for my 5 points.

[CallOfWookies]

Ok. I just read this thread from head to toe again and I now know what you mean regarding shield chance/absorb and how it's not really worth the points. Thank you for the prompt response but I still have a few questions on top of what was not answered up top.

 

1) Why is there such a huge disparity between people's experience with ST? People who mamaged to get their defense to 50/50 shield vs ST who gave up on the lackluster DMG and crappy shield mitigation have such opposing experiences regarding the tree.

 

2) Can you get to 50/50 without the extra 10% from those 5 points? If it is, and you can be just as tanky as deep ST then it's really not worth the extra 5 points/10%...

 

3) If shield is fail, what should PT focus their secondary stat on when picking equip and mods?

 

4) Running the ST and Prototype hybrid, are we still using ion as the main cylinder?

 

Thanks once again.

[CallOfWookies]

Sorry for double posting but I just want to mention 30% shield isn't that difficult if its a bare minimum we shiuld reach before dumping the 5points . I am currently at 27% as stated above with only one enhancement that gives a shield bonus. Of course though, I am no pro at BH so you constructive feedbacks are still much appreciated

[chainsawsamurai]

If you run a hybrid build, keep on Ion. It lets you use Guard and take a bit more damage. The extra armor isn't all that great since so many things bypass it completely, but the extra shield chance and 5% flat reduction isn't bad.

 

If you're gettin on towards 30% absorb (which, you're right it isnt hard to do) then you are still only getting 3% mitigation from 5 whole talent points. You can pick up 2% mitigation from either of the other two trees (Power Armor or Infrared Sensors) as well as a fair bit more damage with that 5 points instead.

 

At 50% absorb, which one guy said he got to, you finally get 1% mitigation per talent point out of that final talent, you can then also pick up heat blast. Heat Blast's damage sucks -- horribly -- but it lets you be a bit more frivolous with heat. Problem is that doesn't really do anything but buy you some more Flame Bursts which isn't all that great in the first place.

 

The more I play without those talents the more I don't think it will ever be worth putting points into for PvP. You lose too much damage to gain heat management which you don't do any real extra damage to. It is probably still worth it to focus on shields and absorb when you think you can get enough to make yourself tough to kill, but the versatility and damage offered by the other trees will always outweigh another 5% mitigation and craptacular Heat Blast I think.

 

 

Honestly I'm getting fairly fed up with the Shieldtech tree as a whole in PvP, but I feel stuck with it for Jet Charge. Grapple has a lousy cooldown and is unreliable. As fun as it is to yank someone into a Huttball trap, it isn't even 1/10th as good as Jet Charge.

 

It shows too. I've been against Pyro's and Adv Proto players, and I will consistently outdamage them (Adv Proto espescially, Pyros are significantly better when stuck at range). It isn't because I hit hard, or survive longer (everything melts to focus fire all the same and Shieldtech isn't going to save you without defensive support from other players), but because I can be on target longer due to Jet Charge.

 

My damage is better without being full Shieldtech, and I can win a 1v1's without dying of boredom -- eventually, and so long as they aren't a remotely competent healer -- but ultimately I feel I'm just there for support. Throwing guard out, handing out immobilizes with Crapple and Jet Charge, and being a big target. Being support is fine, but I haven't been able to PvP with my guild for the last couple days and the Solo que experience is depressing, nothing worse than playing non-healing support for a disorganized pug.

[BMaster]

Ok so i have been reading this thread for the last couple days, and I just don't like any of the proposed builds... but maybe I'm just stupid. Also i am only 25 atm so my input probably doesn't count for much, but at least hear me out!

 

My main goal is to be able to tank in both PVE and PVP, while being able to contribute in PVP matches other than Huttball (where tanking isnt AS important), so a little extra DPS.

 

I just can't convince myself to give up Jet Charge, just seems too nice for every scenario. So here is my 21/2/18 hybrid build: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hRGr0RboZ0MZfhrbzh.1

 

Comments:

Shield Tech Tree:

I think this is pretty standard, gives me the good tanking talents, Jet Charge, Grapple Immobilize (not affected by resolve? so if target has full resolve i wont pull but they cant move for 3 seconds? if is affected by resolve i would be tempted to take Ion Screen), Shield Vent, and Rocket Punch CD refresh chance on Shield (amazing).

 

Adv. Proto Tree:

Just improved Rail Shot, 40% (60% max) armor pen is just to nice to pass up, even more so when you take Prototype Particle Accelerator and Super heated Rail in the Pyro tree. My debate here is 3 points here and 2 in pyro, or how i have it? I feel the chance for a CD reset and no cost is better than the extra 20% armor pen when you already have 70%. Also is this better than Flame Surge in ST line (i feel like it is as it seems to be more consistent for dmg)?

 

Pyro Tree:

Taking bursting flame, sweltering heat, and superheated gas gives the option to use CGC those times you don't need to tank (or just want to melt someones face). You get Incendiary missiles, nice DOT (from what i read), and the kicker Prototype Particle Accelerator for free Rail Shots, combined with superheated gas for 70% armor pen (or 90% if you switch 1 point around)!

 

What i was wondering is if anything in the Pyro tree is specific to having CGC active (other than venting heat on Rail Shot), like we have for Guard and IGC?

 

Feel free to tell me how stupid I am and why this build will totally suck, but please include a decent explanation!

 

Thanks for the feedback!

Edited December 29, 2011 by BMaster

[brazthemad]

@BMaster, I feel like you're giving up a lot not taking the 30% extra crit on flame sweep and rocket punch. Also, those two points for 16% armor should definitely go into either reduced cd on kolto/absorption or straight up 2% mitigation.

 

I'm gradually being swayed by the pyrotech hybrid however, especially since you can proc all the "burning" requirements off of incendiary missile, which is also something to do from range.

[BMaster]

@BMaster, I feel like you're giving up a lot not taking the 30% extra crit on flame sweep and rocket punch. Also, those two points for 16% armor should definitely go into either reduced cd on kolto/absorption or straight up 2% mitigation.

 

I'm gradually being swayed by the pyrotech hybrid however, especially since you can proc all the "burning" requirements off of incendiary missile, which is also something to do from range.

 

I could see a very good argument for moving out of the armor talent into the Koloto/absorption, just note that this is the only place to move those armor points as i would be short of 15 points in the first 3 tiers by trying to move those points to the crit damage. What is absorption exactly? does it only apply when shielding an attack?

 

That was my biggest issue, missing the 30% crit dmg... Where can we get the other 2 points from to get it? It would have to come from armor pen on rail shot (adv proto tree), do we give up 40% armor pen on rail shot for 30% more crit dmg? I am not the best at theory crafting but this seems like it is very close. RP has a shorter cooldown and a good crit chance with the flame shield talent, but you still are only get that 30% on a crit. Where the armor pen on rail shot applies every time you use it, even though rail shot is on a longer cooldown you have to consider there is a chance to reset the CD on every RP and Flame Burst, not to mention Rail shot has great range. The last thing to consider is that Rail Shot would still have 30% armor pen from the pyro tree... Gosh this is the only thing i can't settle on!

 

Great suggestions! Thanks for the feedback! lets keep this discussion going!

[Guntsu]

I am going with a full AP spec

 

This is what im currently projecting:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMhZMsMrRrckdsZb.1

 

Its very meele oriented spec and the basic rotation is RB/RP/FlameBurst or Railshot

 

With prototype cylinder ventilation I have very few heat problems the 15% run speed is nice the only thing I wish this spec would have is a slow of some kind.

 

I do alot of upfront damage and rarely lose on a 1v1 with this spec, I still have the usual missle attacks if I need to stay somewhat ranged.

 

But using grapple to pull an enemy outside of the cluster and un-loading into them works like a charm.

[brazthemad]

It's also going to affect flame sweep. I don't know why more people don't use flame sweep. I know it has a high heat requirement, but if I land in a 2v1, it's my go to. So that 30% crit is more than just the rocket punch, it's also your "I'm going down in a blaze of glory" skill.

 

The other thing about armor penetration vs. crit damage is that it's dependent on the type of character you're attacking. AP doesn't matter as much to light armored opponents while +crit will affect light armor more.

 

Really though, I think we need more data and, eventually, some parsing before we can compare things like crit damage and armor penetration.