Removing Flyby/Orbital Strike; making the class less fun for no reason?

[Paelo]

I completely agree that these should have been nerfed at most. Removing them was probably the single most annoying/frustrating thing i've found in all the class abilities so far, and i have 10 characters, covering every spec, between both sides. (not like that is unique, just mentioning it, for the purpose of stating that ive now seen every spec in 3.0)

 

Orbital had already been nerfed (and nerfed hard at that) now they go and remove it outright for ops and scoundrels as well as explosive probe. Someone on the dev team seems to have decided that 3.0 was going to be about screwing ops and scoundrels over

[Sinapus]

To be fair, orbital strike was useless against mobs that weren't normal or weaker. And if you have trouble with a group of regular mobs... you may wanna upgrade your gear or something, Laceration if it crits will usually one-shot most regular mobs.

 

Before the first nerf I used XS Flyby to clear out groups of weak and standard mobs. They'd die pretty quickly. After the nerf, not even the weaks would die, though they'd lose most of their health. Now it's gone and I have Blaster Volley as a poor substitute.

[Thoop]

questing in sawbones now is painful

 

ops/scoundrels get the shaft because....they might open from stealth with an aoe??????

sorc healers get forcequake/lightning storm, good to go

merc healers get morter volly/death from above, good to go, just compare blaster volley to pulse cannon/flame thrower, 1 is miles more effective

 

blaster volley misses about 90% of mobs you try to hit and that's on flat ground, any kind of uneven terrain and it is completely useless.

 

please bioware consider giving us the new sweeping gunfire from gunslingers skillset or some kind of targetable aoe, there is a huge hole in our aoe skills now

Edited December 10, 2014 by Thoop

[Mozepy]

This was a lousy move by BW. Proof positive that they don't give a lick about fun. Nor do they care about reasonable in universe character progression. It doesn't make any sense for thousands of people to wake up one day and find they forgot how to do things they once could. When you do crap like this for purely game mechanics reasons the game ceases to be an RPG. Edited December 17, 2014 by Mozepy

[Shenyu]

I actually used it for objective control and area control in arena. It is sorely missed.

[crunchmeister]

For me, this AOE was really the only useful source of crowd DPS when doing dailies or other solo PVE content. Without that, running even simple content has become an exercise in frustration. I found the Scoundrel used to be fun to play. But now, despite the fun of being able to stealth, not so much. XS / OS were far from overpowered. Other healer classes still have their AOE attacks. I'm now abandoning my scoundrel healer. I may consider switching to a DPS spec in the future, but for the time being, he's being put away. I was going to start an operative healer, but now I'm most definitely not.

 

Thanks for overly nerfing a fun class.

[Fazaani]

I must sing the op... I think that this change was non needed and makes the class just not appealing anymore. As stated in opening, it's the only change that really bothers me. (so far atleast)

 

I would even happily give a away slinger/sniper flyby/orbital just to get it back to my scound and op

[Ovanmaru]

Sooo....once again PvE ruins everything fun about the class I play....

 

#2014MMOs

Edited December 31, 2014 by Ovanmaru

[Morrolan]

For me, this AOE was really the only useful source of crowd DPS when doing dailies or other solo PVE content. Without that, running even simple content has become an exercise in frustration. I found the Scoundrel used to be fun to play. But now, despite the fun of being able to stealth, not so much. XS / OS were far from overpowered. Other healer classes still have their AOE attacks. I'm now abandoning my scoundrel healer. I may consider switching to a DPS spec in the future, but for the time being, he's being put away. I was going to start an operative healer, but now I'm most definitely not.

 

Thanks for overly nerfing a fun class.

 

Spot on , for group PvE its probably OK but for solo PvE the lack of aoe makes it simply tedious. I'm basically giving up my operative for the moment (except for cybertech crafting) as other classes have actually been improved.

[ArielRebel]

If anybody comes in and say "ohmergerd orbital strike is/was op, remove it from Operatives" then plz, explain to me how sorc are allowed to spam a spell with one of the biggest aoe, from 30-35m away, doing crazy damage (even more than a fully buffed flamethrower from Pyrotech) ... Also, we are probably the class with the worst amount of aoe spells. Carbine burst should never be used as it's bugged and a tiny difference in height with the target will make you miss along with the fact that it requires to be in melee range and is soooo awkward to use (OH and it requires a TA... LOL!?)... this leaves us with grenade which is such an energy sink that nobody should use it in any rotation (beside regular questing). Pro balancing. Edited January 1, 2015 by ArielRebel

[Y-Yorle]

I feel the same about my Juggy. With the removal of a functional retalliation in my Vengeance discipline the flow feels... disturbed in (solo) pve. I've been used to having it up and off the GCD for more than two years, my muscle memory is totally messed up and I often still press the skill as I tab through the mobs. In Immortal tree having it off the GCD gave a very nice weaving feel to the entire tanking spec. Gone now as well. Same goes for my Carnage Marauder, with the removal of so many abilities it feels like they gutted the spec to it's core-rotation. I have 3 warriors and 3 knights, they were my favorite baseclasses to play because of the heavy and quick paced weaving nature. That's gone now though, sadly.

 

TL; DR: The combat in this game feels less engaging for me and I'd like to know the REAL reason devs found it neccessary to remove damage off the GCD. What was so bad about it?

[Kaedusz]

Removing aoe utilities means we are gonna be a proper solo target class,meaning we are gonna get buffs in general in our single target dps,meaning we are gonna be more like rogues from vanilla and tbc wow.

 

I think that is a good thing.

 

This class has the potential to be the best single target dps in future updates,when speced concealment.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Kaedusz

[ArielRebel]

Removing aoe utilities means we are gonna be a proper solo target class,meaning we are gonna get buffs in general in our single target dps,meaning we are gonna be more like rogues from vanilla and tbc wow.

 

I think that is a good thing.

 

This class has the potential to be the best single target dps in future updates,when speced concealment.

 

That would be true... if BW would be better at balancing, and less preoccupied by cartel market releases.

[mydogclimbstree]

Trying to do dailies while qued for pvp is awful. It is so painfully slow as a sawbones.

 

Getting into an arena or tactical flashpoint with another healer, especially another scoundrel, is also quite painful. I have almost no ranged or burst anymore, and trying to help off dps is not working.

[Thuia]

I always played healers and I always was have much fun during doing dailes or heroics with my scoundrel.

Nowadays many groups of mobs are hard and long to kill. It is borring, annoying and i often had to focus to alive.

All the fun of playing scoundrel doesn't exist now.

 

Luckly i have sage wich is quite fun now. If they nerf it too im afraid I will be forced to abbadon this game.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Thuia

[Qaoz]

I have almost no ranged or burst anymore, and trying to help off dps is not working.

 

This is probably my biggest gripe with Sawbones. Aside from the odd Back Blast, there's no room for damage dealing abilities. Meanwhile, in Camp Sage, they can blow their entire resource pool and never lose regen on it.

 

Telekinetic Throw is resource neutral, for crying out loud! It costs no Force when you're Seer spec'd. What kind of crap is that? Can I get a 3-second channel on a short cooldown that doesn't cost energy and does a respectable amount of damage, please? No? Okay, I guess I'll stick to my Back Blast that costs 10% of my resource pool, risks putting me into the red if I suddenly need to burst heal, and requires me to be within melee range and BEHIND THE DAMN TARGET!

 

But sure, let's remove Flyby because some developer felt it didn't fit the theme of the Scoundrel. Because obviously that was important.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Qaoz

[mydogclimbstree]

Trying to do dailies while qued for pvp is awful. It is so painfully slow as a sawbones.

 

I normally regret rage posting, but not this one. I was trying very hard yesterday to do dailies on Yavin while Sawbones specced and PvP geared, queing for warzones. I had Risha out, and boy was she was out-DPSing me. If there were only one or two targets (one mezzed, etc...) they were dying, albeit slowly, but I was having a lot of trouble with groups of 3 or more. Compared to the speed and ease of dispatching the same group while scrapper or ruffian specced (still with Risha), I was not having a good time. It really made me miss the days when I could respec inside a warzone.

 

During this frustration, I got a pop and headed into an arena with another sawbones specced scoundrel, a tank, and 1 DPS against 4 enemy DPS. Went to the acid with our opponents at almost full health (jugg/sorc heals ftw). In the next match I about lost a node in Novare because multiple people were spam capping and my grenade was on CD. They just chain rooted me by the cannon and capped while I tried to autoattack each player; they didn't even have the decency to stun me. I felt absolutely useless.

 

I just honestly don't understand why sawbones DPS was hit so hard. I have leveled 2 commandos, both medic specced, to 60, and they were not nearly as frustrating. Between mortar volley, hail of bolts, and pulse cannon, I could do quite a bit of damage to multiple targets while still keeping myself and my companion healed up, not to mention some of the harder hitting single target skills. Someone else will have to verify the sage equivalents.

[MilliVilli]

Im glad they go rid of OS & EP, it makes the play style faster like it should be for concealment. It gets rid of having to cover with i think operative shouldnt be doing in the first place; save that for the snipers. if they made explosive probe usable to ops without cover, then i would like that. I like the direction its going, i fear a nerf soon though, ops especially concealment can now stack kolto and get a end heal from shield nice!!! with the set up of the skill tree options i feel you can build a for your play style more than before. You can go defensive type, buffy type, hard hitter type depending on the options you picked and i like the limits of which perk you can pick as you progress (i made the names for those types up, but you get the idea)

 

Im not a hardcore player im casual to medium on being serious on swtor, been playing op since the very beginning. Ive been lurking hear for awhile i think this my first post.

 

Im not saying its perfect; the new changes. It feels more fuild and straigjt forward to me, i havent got to 60 yet. Overall i accept the changes as they should improve later on

 

Sorry if hard to read, tablet typing sucks

Edited January 3, 2015 by MilliVilli

[Qaoz]

I like the direction its going, i fear a nerf soon though, ops especially concealment can now stack kolto and get a end heal from shield nice!!!

 

If they nerf Operatives/Scoundrels after the 3.0 stunt, they're officially clueless.

 

The Kolto Probe and Shield Probe heals are meaningless. You don't have time to setup Kolto stacks while in combat, and you can't do it in stealth, so you're not going to set them up before combat. And the heal on Shield Probe collapse is pitiful, considering the cooldown on Shield Probe and the amount it absorbs.

 

I agree that Concealment feels a lot more fluid now, and you probably don't realize it, but Concealment gets an Explosive Probe replacement at level 57, and it doesn't require cover. I'm still sad they removed Explosive Probe, though. Not only was it the main part of our ranged burst, it also added flavor to the class. The only way you get to summon a probe at an enemy as an Operative now is during scripted encounters, like the warheads in Kuat Drive Yards, or the door in The Esseles.

 

Meh, like I've mentioned other places, I still like the class, although I'm a Scoundrel person myself (the knife sound effects got a little boring, to be honest). I just wish we had reliable, sustainable AOE. Grenade requires a target and has a not entirely insignificant cooldown. Carbine Burst is just *********** awful. The two other healing classes, Mercenaries and Sorcerers, get a spammable AOE attack. Don't know if you've played a Sorcerer recently, but Force Storm with the +25% damage utility packs a mean punch. Does crazy damage and stuns. What does Carbine Burst do in comparison?

Edited January 3, 2015 by Qaoz

[MotorCityMan]

There was no reason to remove Orbital Strike. They already nerfed it. By removing it dailies take twice as long waiting for companions to kill something. Absurd nerf. Like I want to spend hours grinding repeatable missions in a game. Pffft. Way to make this game less fun. Edited January 4, 2015 by MotorCityMan

[Thoop]

Removing aoe utilities means we are gonna be a proper solo target class,meaning we are gonna get buffs in general in our single target dps,meaning we are gonna be more like rogues from vanilla and tbc wow.

 

I think that is a good thing.

 

This class has the potential to be the best single target dps in future updates,when speced concealment.

 

"it's ok they neutered our aoe because they will now have to buff our single target damage even further in a future update"

OR

 

they could just make us viable as each and every other class and we can choose what skills to use in the current situation. If i wanted to play a wow rouge i would load up wow not swtor please and thanks. The best solution would be to give us back orbital, make carbine burst worth a toolbar slot and not to make single target dps overpowered.

 

 

thematically how is a scoundrel operative supposed to compete with a force user?, well they have to use tech gadgets and the like, maybe call in a fly by bombing run to even up the score, not only stab someone with a knife or sucker punch. the orbital strike felt a better playstyle fit than we have now despite what little the devs have told us for the reasons it was removed

[PBoba]

During this frustration, I got a pop and headed into an arena with another sawbones specced scoundrel, a tank, and 1 DPS against 4 enemy DPS. Went to the acid with our opponents at almost full health (jugg/sorc heals ftw). In the next match I about lost a node in Novare because multiple people were spam capping and my grenade was on CD. They just chain rooted me by the cannon and capped while I tried to autoattack each player; they didn't even have the decency to stun me. I felt absolutely useless.

 

I just honestly don't understand why sawbones DPS was hit so hard.

 

Yeah, I don't pvp heals anymore because of this. It doesn't feel like an "operative" - who are supposed to be resourceful, versatile. No more surprise Explosive probe to burst down a focus target; no more orbital strike. It feels like a dumb healing turret. It feels like the fun of contributing has been cut in half. For no good reason.

[MotorCityMan]

Same. My Ops pvp heals has officially gone on crafting bot status. As I mentioned in a previous post, doing dailies as a healer is completely absurd now, and healing in pvp is a losing proposition. Bioware caved in to the whines of the legions of derp dps who demand things die no matter they can't focus target, coordinate their CCs, etc.

[Thoop]

who exactly asked for this change?

 

i think i'm missing something here, it surly wasn't operatives begging for the removal of orbital.

 

was it other dps classes claiming we were OP with our slow hitting uber telegraphed aoe?

 

orbital was nerfed to the point that every other dps class has a stronger AOE i just don't see the reason for its outright removal from the game at all?

[QuiveringPotato]

who exactly asked for this change?

 

i think i'm missing something here, it surly wasn't operatives begging for the removal of orbital.

 

was it other dps classes claiming we were OP with our slow hitting uber telegraphed aoe?

 

orbital was nerfed to the point that every other dps class has a stronger AOE i just don't see the reason for its outright removal from the game at all?

 

It was originally nerfed due to snipers using it in single target rotations in PVE for optimal DPS.

 

Then, it was removed from operatives because "it didn't fit the class thematically".