Bioware says NO LFD TOOL.

[notafanboy]

over-exaggerating to proof a point hardly works, just saying....

 

and there are enough posts in this thread alone discussing the pro & cons.

 

installed DDO yet?

 

Only I'm not over-exaggerating points. And you have yet to tell me why

 

LFG system- Gets people from all over the server, no matter where they are, together to do a flashpoint they all want to do. Keeps spam out of general chat. Lowers wait time for finding a group since it finds people from all over the server rather than your zone.

 

is so bad.

[kineticdamage]

In LFD, it would have been instant teleport to the quest zone, accomplish it, and then goodbye teleport away.

Yes. Which is exactly how I want it.

 

Same. Pretty good chance I would not talk to 95% of the people I group with in RL anyhow.

 

So you'd better play a solo game instead of trying to turn a multiplayer social-based game into a solo game.

You pro-LFD people are clearly admitting you just don't care about socialising. MMOs are about socialising. So you know you're in the wrong place from the start, but still want to take the social out of it ?

That's dishonest, and disrespectful for what MMORPGs were made for initially.

 

Also, this is the best argument pack I've seen about the real problem of LFD :

 

^ Genius.

 

But lets look at the pro's and cons of a LFD, and see there.

 

Pros:

 

1. Faster dungeon queues

 

2. Experience more content at a faster rate

 

3. Good gear kinda quick. Don't drop first time, go again.

 

4. Fast leveling, even faster if rested.

 

Cons:

 

1. You don't build the group you want, nor do you pick the class. This can be disasterous if the tank and/or healer barely meet the minimum requirements.

 

2. Social interaction is a minimum. Just because you try to start a convo doesn't mean they reply.

 

3. There is no commitment to the group itself. Feel free to leave anytime and quest until the debuff goes away.

 

4. The good gear earned in the pros disappears a few levels later by greens. (This con is iffy.)

 

5. Gets boring. Especially if you rinse and repeat for a few hours.

 

Notice the difference? All the pros are specific for the efficiency player, and the cons for the more social player. This fight will continue forever on in eternity. But if you're playing a game purely to be efficient, you'd spend your time better playing a JRPG, or speed running through games.

Edited December 25, 2011 by kineticdamage

[jimmybob]

"encourages social interaction"

 

Games need to stop "encouraging" aka forcing players down one singular path. Open up options!

[notafanboy]

"encourages social interaction"

 

Games need to stop "encouraging" aka forcing players down one singular path. Open up options!

 

A only server LFD doesn't even hinder socialization at all, unless spamming general chat counts as socialization.

[kineticdamage]

U dont know what LFG is for right?

We want it for flashpoints not to random group up with others to do quests...

 

LFG tool for flashpoints would be the same.

 

I remember in WoW vanilla when we went to dungeons by ourselves, on horses, because there was no "magical insta-teleport", and those were the best times I lived in a game.

Random stuff popped out during our trips. Either because we suddenly wanted to explore stuff, or just wanted to burn that enemy village down for a few minutes.

 

Automatization is the evil of socialisation, no more no less.

[notafanboy]

LFG tool for flashpoints would be the same.

 

I remember in WoW vanilla when we went to dungeons by ourselves, on horses, because there was no "magical insta-teleport", and those were the best times I lived in a game.

Random stuff popped out during our trips. Either because we suddenly wanted to explore stuff, or just wanted to burn that enemy village down for a few minutes.

 

Automatization is the evil of socialisation, no more no less.

 

So why not make a LFG tool that only finds players in your server and that doesn't teleport you to the dungeon?

[kineticdamage]

Also this :

 

In the last few days, I've met and friended more awesome people on SWTOR than in the 2 YEARS post LFD WoW.

 

People on my server (Wound in the Force) already have reputations, and I myself have become "The amazing Merc healer", as general chat has called me more than once. Going back to single servers was the best possible thing to ever happen to the MMO community.

 

And of course I have my own circle of real life friends that play.

 

And this :

 

Dude, if you're waiting that long for a group, you're doing it wrong. When you learn when and where to look for groups for a specific dungeon, you can get in there in minutes. My server has floods of people trying to dungeon at all level ranges.

 

Do you people who complain about having to search on the gen chat for a group ever wonder why some of us do not have any difficulty finding one ?

It's not that hard, ffs.

 

Also, another huge advantage from not having a LFG tool is that content is not burnt as quick as if there was one. It tempers the players pace of eating it up. Which is a good thing for everyone, devs included.

[kineticdamage]

So why not make a LFG tool that only finds players in your server and that doesn't teleport you to the dungeon?

 

I would be totally ok with that, but there is always one, buddy.

You just have to open it.

[Graburr]

Only I'm not over-exaggerating points.

 

then you either managed to end up on an EU server as US player or vice versa, but you already said your chat is spammed with lfg/lfm, yet you have to wait for hours finding a group....

 

so unless you play on a server where your playing time is completely different from the server's prime time (or the server is miraculously filled with people who don't use chat - highly doubtful), there will be an abundance of lfg/lfm chat. and since some people are smarter than others, they'll be looking in the leveling zones zoo.

 

so when you can't be even bothered to state the way it really is, why should I be bothered to repeat what other people already said in this thread?

Edited December 25, 2011 by Graburr

[Nulzero]

LFG tool for flashpoints would be the same.

 

I remember in WoW vanilla when we went to dungeons by ourselves, on horses, because there was no "magical insta-teleport", and those were the best times I lived in a game.

Random stuff popped out during our trips. Either because we suddenly wanted to explore stuff, or just wanted to burn that enemy village down for a few minutes.

 

Automatization is the evil of socialisation, no more no less.

 

I'm sorry but waiting 45 minutes while guiding someone to mara was not good times, it was annoying. Having a person leave in the middle of that instance meant the death of the group if we couldn't find a guild member and have a warlock to summon. Hearthing back to IF to spam general to get someone to travel all the way to Desolace to finish the instance.. yeah didnt happen.

 

Again, people who look back at launch wow dungeoning as some great experience beyond the fact that the dungeons themselves were a great experience are seeing through the filter of nostalgia. Pugging in classic wow was great once you got to the dungeon. Every thing else about it was annoying and far more painful than it had to be. This is coming from a tank/healer.

[NaughtforlLife]

for past week it takes me hour sometimes not instance at all its hard get group. I wish not for crossrealm looking for group but something i mean how about option for it and for those who dont want it can do spamming chat while rest of us do looking for group system instead. I dont have 3 hours to join group and i know what you going say it doesnt take me that long then good for u but it does take long.

[TorqueoMilitaris]

So you'd better play a solo game instead of trying to turn a multiplayer social-based game into a solo game.

You pro-LFD people are clearly admitting you just don't care about socialising. MMOs are about socialising. So you know you're in the wrong place from the start, but still want to take the social out of it ?

That's dishonest, and disrespectful for what MMORPGs were made for initially.

 

Also, this is the best argument pack I've seen about the real problem of LFD :

 

If u cant socialize, just because there is an LFD tool, i think something wrong with you, not with the tool. I've never had any problems before in any other MMO to get friends, make fun events, enjoy group activities, just because there was an LFD tool, rather that helped me to meet players, and do things together. LFD tool changes nothing in sociality, what happens now without that?

 

-LFG X Flaspoints

-inv

-hi

-hi

...

-thanks bye

-bye

Edited December 25, 2011 by TorqueoMilitaris

[Sohtaraz]

"encourages social interaction"

 

Games need to stop "encouraging" aka forcing players down one singular path. Open up options!

 

Out of all groups I have had, I have been the only one starting conversatons. Funnely enough this would be the same no matter if we use the tool or not.

 

What exactly does whispering random people saying "Hey got room for [X]" encourages social interractions?

[Mandrax]

Then don't use it. What in the world is with you people? Just because someone hands you hammer doesn't mean you have to build an ark.

 

True. Although if the alternative to the hammer is a wet fish which do you choose?

 

The current group tool is a joke and needs attention but a a wow like tool is not the answer.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Mandrax

[raidyr]

If u cant socialize, just because there is an LFD tool, i think something wrong with you, not with the tool. I've never had any problems before in any other MMO to get friends, make fun events, enjoy group activities, just because there was an LFD tool, rather that helped me to meet players, and do things together. LFD tool changes nothing in sociality, what happens now without that?

 

The difference being that you can still do that with an LFG tool. You don't have any problems? That's cool. But some people do. A lot of people do. A lot of casual players who have an hour or two a day to play the game and don't want to spend half of that spamming general and running to the instance. There's also people who, suprise, real shocking here, don't want to socialize. They want their Flashpoint gear so they can do Operations and that is their end goal. Slowing down that progression loop does no favors for anyone involved.

 

-LFG X Flaspoints

-inv

-hi

-hi

...

-thanks bye

-bye

 

This is far less than what I've seen in Flashpoints I've run so far. It's typically

 

-spam general for ~30 minutes

-wait 10 minutes for everyone to get together

-do instance entirely silently

-sometimes get a "good group" or "later guys thanks" at the end

 

Sure is community building

True. Although if the alternative to the hammer is a wet fish which do you choose?

 

The current group tool is a joke and needs attention but a a wow like tool is not the answer.

 

Why not? It's the best system for secure, accountable groups that are conveneient to form and works based on the players schedule and not the other way around. Every game could use it but the fact that a Bioware MMORPG in 2011 is releasing without even a rudimentary equivalent is disappointing.

[moosedog]

 

 

This is far less than what I've seen in Flashpoints I've run so far. It's typically

 

-spam general for ~30 minutes

-wait 10 minutes for everyone to get together

-do instance entirely silently

-sometimes get a "good group" or "later guys thanks" at the end

 

Sure is community building

 

 

 

 

This has been my exact experience. through about 50 levels on 2 different characters.

[Nulzero]

True. Although if the alternative to the hammer is a wet fish which do you choose?

 

The current group tool is a joke and needs attention but a a wow like tool is not the answer.

 

It doesn't have to be exactly like wow but lets go over wow's version:

 

Selectable roles and a match finding algorithm. I've played games like DDO (at least at launch) where they didn't match and just left that up to people. What you got was people in LFM, and people in LFG who didn't bother to look in the other tab or there just weren't enough people in LFM to match to the people in LFG. Sure using the tool properly makes it easier but not everyone wants to start a group to do the LFM thing. If the goal is to speed things up random is better, if the goal is to meet new people, random is still better.

 

Brings you to the instance: A very nice perk, not something that really applies to SWTOR as all the instances are in the same place. At the same time, there's no argument AGAINST bringing you to the instance because you're not exploring anything to get to the fleet anyway. Personally I like to be able to pick up right where i left off before I grouped up.

 

Cross server: This is the feature that most people dislike. These people must have never played on a low population server, off times, or leveled after the majority of the server hit max level. Still, saying you want to meet people on your server makes this a pretty easily corrected solution. They could do it in the manner wow does it where people on your own server get priority or you could make a toggle where you only look for others on your server. If you select the toggle you only play on your server. To me servers don't really mean anything except for a pool of people to recruit from for your guild. Especially in this game which is so heavily instanced anyway that you really don't feel like you're playing with a large amount of other people. Another server is just more people that have been segregated from you on another instance of the game.

 

Anonymity and reputations: People argue that you can be anonymous and thus act like a *******. This happens regardless of dungeon finders. I've seen drama and "blacklists" in the past. They don't work, people can re-roll, do a payed name change (which is a revenue stream that EA is not going to ignore) or just whisper people instead of respond in general chat and no one will be the wiser. YOU might have blacklisted that person but you're really deluding yourself if you think you can keep that person from pugs. With dungeon finder you can /ignore dbags and they won't ever be in your group again.

 

Now we know how wow addressed those issues, what remains to be seen is how Bioware does. I think they'd be doing a poor job to ignore refinements done in other games even if they don't decide to implement it in the exact same way.

[Ethern]

Not only spamming the channels is not more social, but it also less effective to find groups than a dungeon finder.

People need to move on, for this game's sake.

[Elgierro]

A global LFG channel would be better than what we have now (we don't have anything now ), altho i gets abused by spammers (but you can ignore those).

There are Flashpoint shuttles on every main setlement on each planet anyway.

 

I don't mind grouping, and i don't mind looking for more group members, but what i do mind is that i have to be in the city to do it instead of out questing.

 

Most of the time i'll just do a "LvL XX tank LFG to ..." and wait 5 mins or something, or group up with my brother but thats not always possible because of the lvl difference that sometimes happens.

[TorqueoMilitaris]

The difference being that you can still do that with an LFG tool. You don't have any problems? That's cool. But some people do. A lot of people do. A lot of casual players who have an hour or two a day to play the game and don't want to spend half of that spamming general and running to the instance. There's also people who, suprise, real shocking here, don't want to socialize. They want their Flashpoint gear so they can do Operations and that is their end goal. Slowing down that progression loop does no favors for anyone involved.

 

 

 

This is far less than what I've seen in Flashpoints I've run so far. It's typically

 

-spam general for ~30 minutes

-wait 10 minutes for everyone to get together

-do instance entirely silently

-sometimes get a "good group" or "later guys thanks" at the end

 

Sure is community building

 

 

Why not? It's the best system for secure, accountable groups that are conveneient to form and works based on the players schedule and not the other way around. Every game could use it but the fact that a Bioware MMORPG in 2011 is releasing without even a rudimentary equivalent is disappointing.

 

thats what im talking about too:), sorry if I was misunderstooable

[Gavin_Darkl]

Thank god no LFD tool means it will be a while before people need to cry that the game is not push 1 button easy because Pugs Suck.

 

If you find the right guild you do not need a LFD tool.

[raidyr]

Thank god no LFD tool means it will be a while before people need to cry that the game is not push 1 button easy because Pugs Suck.

 

If you find the right guild you do not need a LFD tool.

 

You are always pugging if you are doing groups without people you know. That's the definition of the word PUG. As in pick up group. Take your rambling some place else.

[Gavin_Darkl]

You are always pugging if you are doing groups without people you know. That's the definition of the word PUG. As in pick up group. Take your rambling some place else.

 

What is your point? I dont care for LFD tool because I dont care for the need to make this game Puggable like WoW was in Wrath and becoming once again.

[raidyr]

What is your point? I dont care for LFD tool because I dont care for the need to make this game Puggable like WoW was in Wrath and becoming once again.

 

WoW was puggable before Wrath. More to the point the flashpoints in this game are dead simple. Trash is of no concern whatsoever and bosses typically only have a few things to stay out of the way of. If "lack of difficulty" is your concern then I have to question your playing SWTOR in the first place because I can safely say this game is a lot easier than anything in WoW.

[Ethern]

Thank god no LFD tool means it will be a while before people need to cry that the game is not push 1 button easy because Pugs Suck.

 

If you find the right guild you do not need a LFD tool.

Almost all the nonsense I have read in this thread, this one is the worst.

 

So only people who have a guild deserve to enjoy the group content?

People who are self sufficient in their restrained guild circle, and by extension do not do PuGs, can only troll a topic about a LFD.