Is it time to remove cost on swapping out mods for subscribers?

[TUXs]

I absolutely support this. The price of mod swapping is one of my biggest complaints and one of the biggest hurdles for me when it comes to making Cartel Armor purchases. Removing the cost is absolutely the thing they should do...especially when it's only going to escalate come level 60.

 

And my favorite reply ever on a topic like this:

A business model that relies on people buying lots of armours should not add barriers to prevent people from buying lots of armours.

I can not stress enough how much the cost of modding impacts their cartel armor sales.

Edited November 20, 2014 by TUXs

[leihn]

You can get like 800-900k of credits by doing all the available dailies per day iirc, that's like 5.5M per week.

 

It does take a long time to do all of them and most players are likely to skip many of the heroic ones with the highest payout since it's inefficient to spend time looking for groups.

 

The source of credits isn't really a problem, but it is a moderately significant time investment. The challenge is maybe the cost of replacing mods can be toned down since swapping gear already has a significant cost association in augments.

[CabelHarn]

What needs to be asked to determine which way makes more sense are the following questions:

 

1. What would make the game the most money.

2. What would be the benefits to the player either direction.

3. What would be the negatives.

 

 

Answer to 1 - making an appearance tab system where they can sell the tab unlocks (maybe give subs 1 for free have a max of 8 per character?) would make them the most money because they can not only sell the tab unlocks, but many people would buy more CM gear if they had a reason for it (I am with some of those in the topic, I do not buy some CM gear and don't buy as many packs and pack gear now because I simply don't have anyone to wear the stuff so why bother). Feel free to try and argue this point, but I honestly don't see how it can be argued it is a no brainer on the cash-making front.

 

2. The benefits if we had a costume system where we don't have to swap mods is obvious, players are happier about being able to use more outfits they have and they spend more money so the company is happy too.

 

The benefit of not doing this is it may make some looks more unique because people don't tend to want to spend money to change outfits, it also has a money sink built into it that could hurt the economy by removing especially if augment kits and augments don't have to be put in every armor set.

 

3. The negatives of doing an appearance tab correspond to the benefits of not doing one - loss of a money sink, possible loss of unique looks since many people will have several looks they bounce around between, and injury to the economy in-game.

 

The negatives of not doing an appearance system are a loss of money-making opportunities for the company, incrreasingly so as people like myself and other posters who have lots of people stop buying CM boxes, CM gear etc because we have no use for it (Hoth set is a perfect example, why would I buy that since I won't want to wear it any time but when I'm on Hoth and Belsalvis and I'm not spending the money to only wear it then, that is silly). Also this would be an opportunity to make a lot of the community happy.

 

 

 

So is there a middle-ground? Perhaps they could introduce an appearance system to make the extra real cash and make a lot of people happy, but they could also analyze whether recent money-sinks are sufficient to off-set mod pulling or if not make adjustments to existing sinks like repair costs, or add a new sink. As to the augment kit/augments economy issue I think this is the most valid concern about damaging the in-game economy. Perhaps we could meet half-way and say augment kits still have to be applied to the slots on every appearance tab and augments still have to be moved, or additional ones purchased if they don't want to move them. So the in-game economy doesn't take a huge hit yet the Bioware money making opportunity is increased.

 

I personally think the potential loss of unique looks a small price to pay for something that would make a lot of people happy and make the company more money to keep the game we love going. It's also possible it's not valid with the exception of unique circumstances like the Thermal gear and being on Hoth and Belsalvis, there are so many costume varieties in the game this concern may not be valid.

 

 

On a semi-related note, I have plenty of money to swap gear (~60 mil across all my characters, would be more if it wasn't for 12x XP and my focus on leveling more to see LS/DS options I haven't seen yet) yet I do not spend a dime to swap gear looks despite having 5 characters with varying degrees of near full cargo holds with gear and other CM stuff. I go out of my way to mix-match sets when I start a new character just to use sets and I still have probably 18 sets I am not using (that'll drop by 4 with my next guy when I mix-match 4 mando sets heh). The reason is because I'd like to keep my money high, and you don't do that by wasting money on frivolous things you can do w/out. If I waste money switching outfits on characters that is less money to buy new expensive mounts, crystals etc, which I get most of every new box and item with combo of CC and creds spent.

Edited November 20, 2014 by CabelHarn

[Cernow]

It only gets expensive if you pull the old mods out. If you only have 1 character that uses the stats on the mod you are pulling out why are you doing it? Just put the new one in.

 

Now, if you are switching the mod from one piece of gear to a new piece, because you'd like to change your looks, then that's a choice you have to make. "Do I really want to change my look THAT bad? Maybe I can just throw a dye module on instead."

 

Credit sinks are a good thing, and I don't really mind them.

 

Credit sinks may be necessary to keep a lid on price inflation, but they need to make sense and be appropriate. The cost to pull mods fails on both counts.

 

A large credit sink to swap appearance fails to meet one of the main objectives for which the orange gear system was originally designed - to allow players to more easily customize their look and provide more choice. The irony is that the high cost to swap mods actually stifles this choice, not increases it.

 

Yes, you can argue that if someone wants to change their looks "THAT bad" then they need to stump up the cash to pull all their mods, re-augment etc. The costs to do this for a full orange set, including re-augments and new dye on the chest can easily run to over a million credits. And what if you change your mind and want to go back to your old look? Pay all over again just to revert? It's total nonsense.

 

Now add in the actual hassle of pulling all the mods, slotting them back in and matching the armoring slots, re-augmenting, trying to hunt down the dye you want (if it's even for sale anymore) etc etc. What you end up with is one of the worst kinds of MMO time sinks - a senseless, pointless wastes of players' time. And all this simply to change the appearance of a virtual doll.

 

And before someone says "if you don't like the system, don't use it", for the most part I don't. Personally I refuse to waste my time and credits and so I don't change my characters appearance very often. On most of my characters I've settled on a look and a dye that I like and I stick with it. Sure, I'd like to try some alternative appearances out, but I'll wait until if/when they implement some kind of wardrobe system.

[Suromir]

I wonder if people realize there are 54 whole levels where you have more to do than farm dailies in this game, and it will soon be 59 whole levels. Because from what I can tell, no one does.

 

between planet comms, crew skills, and random drops..there is NO REASON why you don't have enough cash while leveling. NONE.

 

Even when I started playing at launch with a brand-new toon that had NO alt-help whatsoever I was fine with creds and keeping my gear/skills up to date.

 

Credits are easier to make in SWTOR than ANY other MMO that has come before (and, to date, after) it...

 

there's no reason to remove the cost of swapping mods. Reduce? maybe...give us an appearance tab? I'm all for it.

 

But this "credits are hard to make" crap is just plain idiotically false.

[Ubikface]

I don't really see the issue. If you only did Makeb, Oricon and CZ dailies, that alone would pay for swapping out your mods to fresh gear every day, not including any extra credits from vendor trash.

[TUXs]

I don't really see the issue. If you only did Makeb, Oricon and CZ dailies, that alone would pay for swapping out your mods to fresh gear every day, not including any extra credits from vendor trash.

You may like wasting your credits - not everyone does. I hoard CM armor but never wear it because I won't pay to mod it all...you can't cover that cost on Makeb dailies.

 

The current system works against the Cartel Market.

[captpickles]

its rather pricey to be sure and TBH credits aren't that easy to be made in this particular game...maybe they should up the reward credits which would help considerably though its nice not having to fork out all those creds for leveling skills...that part I like and I hope they keep it at no cost.

 

???????? credits are hard to find ?????????

 

I can run 1 single grade 2 crew skill mission and get 5k in under 3 minutes. I can sit in chat in fleet messing with peoples heads for a few hours and make 500k. selling mats. not even crafting.

 

if I get bored of that, I run dailies and pull 800k ...

 

or I can grind mobs for the same mats in fleet and sell the bonus greens and blues and the mats for more ...

 

credits ..easy

[psandak]

I wonder if people realize there are 54 whole levels where you have more to do than farm dailies in this game, and it will soon be 59 whole levels. Because from what I can tell, no one does.

 

There is a simple solution: do not spend your precious credits on stuff you do not NEED. Saving is as important as earning.

[DawnAskham]

Lets put it this way.

 

I don't care how cool of a gear set BW puts out. I will not spend a dime on it because of the cost of mod swapping, Augment additions.

 

II'll created a set on the limited number of legacy sets there are, building a set of gear once. I'll move it to other toons as needed.

 

BW has the ability to make their system and cash shop so much better with an appearance tab system or greatly reducing the cost of mod swapping, encouraging gamers to get more sets but currently, it's a waste over all.

 

I'll ignore most of what the cash shop has because it's just not worth the cost.

 

IMO the current game design highly encourages the use of legacy gear shells over swapping looks on a whim (both in costs and time spent shuffling mods), and as such, I've moved towards using little other than legacy gear.

 

And it isn't from a lack of credits, I have plenty of credits to pay the current costs as well as to buy just about every outfit up for sale of the GTN, as well as quite a few CC to use in the CM.

 

Add appearance mapping or appearance tabs or some other TDB system to allow the same flexibility as legacy gear coupled with an easy to use ability to change appearance, and I'd be much more inclined to buy new sets.

[chosonman]

jeez this is turning into another one of those "waaahh I don't want to work for my rewards just give them to me threads" Look, if you want to change your appearance with new armor that's your choice, but there should ALWAYS be a cost associated with it. No ifs ands or buts. Live with it.

[TUXs]

jeez this is turning into another one of those "waaahh I don't want to work for my rewards just give them to me threads" Look, if you want to change your appearance with new armor that's your choice, but there should ALWAYS be a cost associated with it. No ifs ands or buts. Live with it.

 

Great argument...the way you so eloquently expressed the "waaahh" was what convinced me...

 

Please explain your logic for suggesting "there should ALWAYS be a cost associated" for changing your look...because I fail to see any logical reason for that. Even in real life I don't pay to change my clothes...do you? Upfront cost, change as desired...and this is a video game...and you think it should be more difficult?! Why?

 

IMO, it's simple...does the in-game credit sink work for or against the Cartel Market? I believe it's 100% against it. For that one reason alone I believe it should be removed.

 

But I am all for you sticking to your guns and throwing away credits whenever you change...you'll still have that option with any change made. I'd also like you to send me $5 every time you change clothes...that way you can appreciate all the work you do changing them.

[ivanhedgehog]

Other than repair costs, what penalty is there for a player death?

 

failure. in order to avoid any possibility of repair costs, player slavishly follow the guides online and avoid any possibility of innovation. makes the game boring .

[TUXs]

failure. in order to avoid any possibility of repair costs, player slavishly follow the guides online and avoid any possibility of innovation. makes the game boring .

 

Well said!!! I completely agree.

[Kourage]

As it stands, it's far too expensive for me to change my armor set. Just augmenting 7 pieces is 210,000 credits. Then there's the cost of the MK Kits, which was around another 500,000 credits. That doesn't even include the cost of the armor pieces or the price or pulling the armoring, mods, and enhancements which is about another 210,000 credits.

 

All this does is highly encourage me to stay with he same set of armor all the time. This is why there's so many cartel armor pieces on the GTN for such a small price, you wonder why they aren't just vendored. Currently, I'm mirroring my Republic & Imperial classes so they can share armor sets. On a side, sort of related note; my Chiss Scoundrel looks awfully suspicious in his all white Imperial insignia covered Assault Armor.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Kourage

[azudelphi]

failure. in order to avoid any possibility of repair costs, player slavishly follow the guides online and avoid any possibility of innovation. makes the game boring .

 

I have no idea what this means. Define innovation when it comes to just killing stuff.

[Altheran]

I have no idea what this means. Define innovation when it comes to just killing stuff.

 

It means "Coming up with tactics and trying them" because you have nothing to lose.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Altheran

[Kourage]

failure. in order to avoid any possibility of repair costs, player slavishly follow the guides online and avoid any possibility of innovation. makes the game boring .

 

All this chat about death penalties and following guides is off topic, but I'll leave this here!

 

 

"I hope to free my followers from clinging to styles, patterns, or molds."

- Bruce Lee

Edited November 20, 2014 by Kourage

[Quraswren]

IMO the current game design highly encourages the use of legacy gear shells over swapping looks on a whim (both in costs and time spent shuffling mods), and as such, I've moved towards using little other than legacy gear.

 

And it isn't from a lack of credits, I have plenty of credits to pay the current costs as well as to buy just about every outfit up for sale of the GTN, as well as quite a few CC to use in the CM.

 

Add appearance mapping or appearance tabs or some other TDB system to allow the same flexibility as legacy gear coupled with an easy to use ability to change appearance, and I'd be much more inclined to buy new sets.

 

Agreed.

 

I currently think the way gear is setup and the massive cost it takes to change your look every time BW puts something interesting on the CM, is way to much.

 

It is in direct opposition of what the cartel market is trying to do (give you more options in appearance) but then puts a hurdle in front of players that may be willing to make purchases but because it's too expense (either time, credits or both) they just skip.

 

It needs to be changed.

[LyraineAlei]

*Casually shoves her Guardian and his companions, who are busy making mods for her alts, to the side*

 

You mean people don't just have multiple sets of gear fully modded out and then just fill in the empty slots with new mods and augments? I've only ripped out mods if I were just going to slap 'em on a legacy gear to mail to an alt, or the RE the mods.

 

That being said, with all the other gold sinks that seem more viable, IMO, I don't see why the mod ripping cost should remain with Subs. It would also make a decent excuse to give subs more stuff and non-subs an incentive to subscribe.

[ChroniKill]

I've taken to keeping one set of legacy gear where possible to minimise the cost. Personally I have no issue with it other than I don't change outfit often. When I decided to change the look of my shadow (completely) I spent well over 1 million credits buying the outfit, ripping and setting the mods, augmenting and dying. That's an insane amount to just change looks.

 

Ideally I would like to see Bioware keep the current system but allow you to project (call it holo project or something) a different piece of gear over the one you're wearing. You could charge a small fee (10-15k) to do this, but it would certainly make me more eager to change outfits (and thus buy cartel gear).

[Kdogfury]

Ill agree with the whole I don't change armor due to the cost... I like my look but the cost definitely keeps me from buying/trying out different looks.. I don't care either way but I think bioware would stand to make more money in the cartel if there wasn't such a cost to try other looks out.

[Anzel]

Yes, it is time. Now that the game has matured we have most people with eleven billionty alts and credit sinks like this are really unnecessary.

[ivanhedgehog]

As it stands, it's far too expensive for me to change my armor set. Just augmenting 7 pieces is 210,000 credits. Then there's the cost of the MK Kits, which was around another 500,000 credits. That doesn't even include the cost of the armor pieces or the price or pulling the armoring, mods, and enhancements which is about another 210,000 credits.

 

All this does is highly encourage me to stay with he same set of armor all the time. This is why there's so many cartel armor pieces on the GTN for such a small price, you wonder why they aren't just vendored. Currently, I'm mirroring my Republic & Imperial classes so they can share armor sets. On a side, sort of related note; my Chiss Scoundrel looks awfully suspicious in his all white Imperial insignia covered Assault Armor.

 

I am using legacy gear to share my raid gear between sorc/sage healer and dps pairs. next up are my bounty hunter and trooper sets. being able to customize characters and change looks every so often is part of what keeps me in a game..swtor is rapidly getting stale.

Edited November 20, 2014 by ivanhedgehog

[BuriDogshin]

As it stands, it's far too expensive for me to change my armor set. Just augmenting 7 pieces is 210,000 credits.

 

And yet you wrote:

We've had a maxed out guild flagship for awhile now and have been expanding another flagship for our alt guild. Last I looked, there's enough credits to max out another flagship. There said it would be something to strive for. It's a fuge friggen ship! People pay that for a single person mount.

and also:

They said it would be something you would strive for. That means it doesn't come easy.

 

I find these earlier two statements you made difficult to reconcile with your latest one. Flagships costs a minimum of 50 million credits, maxed out ones a lot more, and you are OK with that and maintain it is good that they are so expensive. But a mere 210,000 credits to install MK-9 augment slots into 7 pieces you consider "far too expensive," even though people routinely pay 20 times that much "for a single person mount."

 

The mind boggles.