Unexpected side-effect of the lower cartel pack prices...

[ZapTheSheep]

I have been doing similarly as the OP. You just have to watch the market a little better. You have to know when to buy and when to sell. If you follow the market correctly, you still make the same profit as you did before. Sorry if that sounds vague, but I am not giving my market secrets up so that every tom/dick/harry can work to break them.

[Heal-To-Full]

And using the 1000 credits per CC conversion, that's given me a small profit on the packs compared to what they cost to buy.

1000cr/cc has been the good rate. People who want a quick sale typically do considerably less.

 

The going rate in 1.x-early 2.0 was 250-500 credits/cc. I've spent a long, long time with 400 cred/cc as the going rate. Then it started to creep up. I so regret not buying up 30-40 cargo bays worth of unlocks and packs.

 

Hold on to these packs for a few months and you'll easily get 1000/cc, maybe even more. Right now, people need the credits, what with the 130 million guild ship, the 20 million personal stronghold package, and the hundreds of decorations to pimp it up. The people you see selling low are the people who want their friggin' credits NOW, so they make an offer even I can't refuse. My upper limit is 200k/pack, FWIW, never bought a pack for more than that.

[Oyranos]

I have been doing similarly as the OP. You just have to watch the market a little better. You have to know when to buy and when to sell. If you follow the market correctly, you still make the same profit as you did before. Sorry if that sounds vague, but I am not giving my market secrets up so that every tom/dick/harry can work to break them.

 

 

spit it out, make ur self comfortable and just let it flow...

Edited November 17, 2014 by Oyranos

[TUXs]

Fifth: "If you don't have time to play the game, don't."

Well, if you have nothing nice to say, don't.

I HAVE time to play the game. But I only have time to either grind dailies to keep myself economically stable, or to play the storylines of my alts.

Not both.

Make a choice - and heed your own advice.

 

I'm all for you spending your real $ on cartel packs - nothing makes me happier tbh...but don't whine because you aren't getting what you want from selling them, that's like complaining because you didn't get that ultra rare mount in your cartel pack...it's simply the risk you take.

[Horacio]

There is an individual on Shadowlands, and I'm pretty sure its one person with several characters, all nonsensical unpronouncable names with mostly 'special' characters and the same convention of naming. Anyhow, every Sunday they drop at least a dozen crates on the GTN dirt cheap. This has been going on for about 6 weeks. Sometimes more. Literally thousands and thousandes of RL dollars and it has a definite impact on the economy. It has made me fairly wealthy and gotten me lots of cool cartel crap. And I've sold quite a few of them off a week or two later as this person seems to buy one or two different crates at a time.

 

One person can impact the economy substantially and drive prices of certain items.

 

The notion of 'market prices' have to be taken with a grain of salt here because basic economics assumes people behave rationally in their own best interest and while yeah, people throw away money foolishly in real life on crap, they only do it more in a game where you go blow up a droid or kill a wookie and take his money over and over again.

 

/shrug. There are ways to make money off of all of these situations. If you're spending RL dollars to generate credits.....well....that's your business, I suppose.

[Oneirophrenia]

First: Long established cc-credit ratio.

Of course this only applies to my server. But that doesn't matter since I'm only selling on my server. But yes, it's been long established since I've been keeping track of the prices of most direct-purchase cartel market items on the GTN.

And yes, of course it's an average.

 

Established by who though? There is no interbank benchmark for TOR virtual currency exchanges. BW can't set the benchmark because it would cross over into Second Life territory and along with it potential regulatory headaches. In effect this "ratio" was concocted by the player base and as such it is exceptionally fragile. Think about it, if one person decided to blow $2000 on CM items and start undercutting everyone, he can effectively inject complete pricing chaos onto large sections of GTN for days if not weeks.

 

Yes, this is based on the long established cc-credit ratio (like I explained earlier, it IS long established on my server).

And furthermore it is, of course, based on what the price of the cheapest item is (in this case I was cheapest at 370k), and undercutting by over 100k is not profitable in general when the higher priced item is selling.

 

Or, one can make the argument that even someone who is selling a CM item at the rate of 100 credits to 1 CC on the GTN is still making a profit. Keep in mind that every person values credits, CC and real life money differently. As a result not everyone is going to turn to that "1000 credits per CC" ratio to measure their level of profitability. For example, someone who has a annual income that is well-over six figures could be perfectly content with pricing their CM items at a much lower ratio because any credit they get out of the deal is still profit to them in the end. If they happens to need more credits, no sweat, they can always go back to their high disposable income to generate more virtual revenue. Essentially they are selling their products in bulk so you could call this the TOR version of the Costco wholesale retail strategy.

 

An unregulated economy comes with all sorts of pitfalls and this is just one of them.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Oneirophrenia

[Foambreaker]

Lower prices, more buyers, more sellers, more supply, same demand, lower prices.

 

/thread?

[facesofderek]

I bought the 15 or so packs needed to finish getting this shipment's rep to legend yesterday, and I don't think I paid more than 150k for any of them. At one point Architect packs were 115k. I really see few reasons to be buying them from the market because credits are so much easier, and there is always someone willing to undercut for a quicker sale.

[x_Boots_x]

duh, basic supply and demand, if you don't like, it don't sell packs, sell something else, that's the way all markets work IRL.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I personally don' think it's 3.0 that has tanked the prices as much as it is Conquest and GSH.

 

On Harbinger I noted around the time those launched that prices for the cheapest packs hovered around 150K and seem to have stayed around that point for quite some time ( yes they go up and dwon but rarely to the previous 200K price point that seemed more the average ).

 

Also hypercrates took a pretty big tumble too with me picking up a few at 2.8 million and they often drop below 3.0 million ( the only reason I don't scoop them all up is I have more credits than I can really use so don't bother trying to makem oney off reselling them as opposed to buying them to open for the joy of the lottery and thus I run out of space to put all the opened or even unopened packs now ). That's 116K per pack pretty much and I think they were selling for 150K individually.

 

In saying that some hypercrates are ridiculously over priced. I am looking for contraband packs now to slowly ( slowly due to space issues ) maximise my reputation for this ( only one I have left for the CM rep ) and a hypercrate is around 18 million yet I've been getting the packs for 400 - 450K each so the hypercrates aren't always the way to go.

 

Anyway back to GSH/Conquest I would believe with so many people interested in buying up the mats etc. for this to get their guild ranked it has a double whammy effect on the Pack market. First there are less credits being used to buy packs as demand has shifted a bit towards conquest/gsh yet I believe supply has probably gone up as guilds/players use real money to generate credits by selling packs and they want/need the quick sale to help their guild thus they drop the prices as far as possible to get it through quickly and of course then others follow suit etc.

 

I do know people are funding conquest with real money as there has been many a discussion about it with many people admitting to it ( no problem what so ever with doing so ) whilst everyone else gets all pissy over crafting to win conquest.

 

All in all I'm happy with the lower prices, I only spend real money on my subscription and buy my packs/crates with money I make in game so the cheaper the better.

 

Also I don't believe in any sense of any actually able to make a loss using real money to buy CM packs ... how can you? Whatever credits you get for it is ideally the going market rate at that point in time and you got what you want ... credits for real money, there is no "loss" here.

[Elracor]

The 1000 credits per CC is (at best) only true for those foolish enough to believe in it.

 

Secondly, you're IMO being way to impatient if you are selling Stronghold packs right now. If you make want to make credits, you sell the packs when they are unavailable in CM and in short supply on the GTN. Club Vertica and Star Cluster Hypercrates were going for ~4 million each in the summer on ToFN and now you can sell the individual packs with a large revenue.

Of course this is also risky as that particular pack might end up on CM and perhaps even with a discount (like Hotshot atm), but generally it has paid off for me.

[Nightfalll]

If you REALLY believe the price for ANY item on the GTN is "too low," then BUY it, Put it back on the GTN when prices rebound, if they do. That's a risk you take.

 

The GTN is complex, especially with Bioware manipulating it. For example, Gold scalene armor was VERY popular for awhile and sold for high prices on the GTN, especially after Bioware embargoed it and stopped selling it. So I bought a set with my 'free' CCs with the intention of selling it. But then Bioware brought it back and the price dropped. Then the price creeped back up and Bioware brought it back for A SINGLE DAY and people grabbed it, and the price dropped again.

 

Stuff like that happens all the time.

 

 

 

I really doubt they pay that close attention to those type of market fluctuations. Their workforce is minimal at best, and can hardly spare the manpower to manipulate the GTN.

 

Don't be silly

[Elracor]

I really doubt they pay that close attention to those type of market fluctuations. Their workforce is minimal at best, and can hardly spare the manpower to manipulate the GTN.

 

Don't be silly

 

I think you are (probably) right about this. I find it doubtful that Bioware would return Gold Scalene armor to CM because only X amount is available on GTN at Y price, but rather because it's been a while since the last time it was on CM.

 

However, MSchuyler still has a point. Whenever Bioware puts items on Cartel Market on sale (or return embargoed items) it's pretty much inevitable that GTN will be affected, and thus Bioware has, albeit indirectly, manipulated GTN.

Edited November 18, 2014 by MFollin

[Aussircaex]

Second: Supply and demand.

Yes, prices go lower when supply supercedes demand.

Point is here that it didn't. The packs have been selling like cupcakes, as usual. And for the usual prices. But then some moro... eeh... "less economically interested person" bought three hypercrates worth of packs and puts them all up for 228k each.

That's a full 142k cheaper than the cheapest ones on sale at that time (which were mine at 370k).

That's not undercutting.

That's madness. (or highly irregular and illogical at least).

 

Ah. There's the problem. Supply does not need to "supercede" demand. It just has to increase, for any reason, to any new ratio. Your OP mentioned that those packs had gone on sale, which would indicate an increase in supply on the GTN, but even if there wasn't a sale, there was some sort of influx of sellers, and that drove the price down, however temporarily. An entrepreneur like yourself could make great profit buying and reselling these underpriced goods.

 

If you "don't have time" or won't spend the time due to placing greater value on other aspects of the game, that is your decision, but it makes your thread meaningless. It would only come down to whining that you couldn't make the exact profit you used to with the same amount of effort. Sucks to be you in that case, I guess, but the market isn't a kind place.

[MSchuyler]

I really doubt they pay that close attention to those type of market fluctuations. Their workforce is minimal at best, and can hardly spare the manpower to manipulate the GTN.

 

Don't be silly

 

It's not silly. Perhaps you misunderstood. The fact is that the GTN is not a "pure" market at all because it is subject to manipulation by Bioware. Oh, I'm SORRY! You don't like that word! OK, use "machination." Not good enough? How about "changes made by Bioware." Happy? Now let's continue with this-----

 

Every time Bioware adds products to the CM, it "changes" the dynamic of people buying the product. When they "embargo" (and a whole lot of people use that word, so I hope it's OK to use here) a product, it CHANGES the market for that item, which usually goes up in price. And once in awhile they will bring back a product for a single day, like they did with gold scalene. Once again, this CHANGES the market because an influx of a formerly popular, but embargoed item WILL make the price go down on the GTN. But that's not the important part: The important part is that it will sell more on the Cartel Market, thus providing revenue for Bioware.

 

Bioware very definitely AFFECTS the market. You may think "they don't have the time," but SOMEONE at Bioware decided to bring back Gold Scalene. SOMEBODY at Bioware decided to bring it back for a single day. Those were INTENTIONAL acts. Now WHY did they do that? It's a friggin' digital product! They can sell an UNLIMITED supply of EVERYTHING they have ever invented! So WHY don't they just put it on the market and leave it alone? If they are so pressed for time, as you claim, the best thing to do would be invent it, post it, leave it alone for people to buy.

 

But they don't do that. Why not? BECAUSE they can artificially create supply and demand issues with embargoes, etc., bring a product back, and it sells better. The Cartel Market is designed to separate YOU from your Real Dollars, plain and simple. When they manipulate the Cartel Market, they couldn't care less about the GTN. What sells there is a side-effect, but they care VERY MUCH about the Cartel Market because it makes them revenue--free revenue. And THAT is in their published business plan. In fact, they have said that is HOW they make money in this game, by "monetizing micro transactions" for their "products delivered online" (their terms).

 

Personally, I don't care. I stated how I managed to burn myself on this, but that's the risk I took. I'm not complaining THAT it happened, just pointing out that it DOES happen.

 

And if you still think the markets are pure markets without any manipulation by Bioware, you are delusional.

Edited November 18, 2014 by MSchuyler

[Icykill_]

I have been doing similarly as the OP. You just have to watch the market a little better. You have to know when to buy and when to sell. If you follow the market correctly, you still make the same profit as you did before. Sorry if that sounds vague, but I am not giving my market secrets up so that every tom/dick/harry can work to break them.

 

Yes this... ^^^^

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I think the confusion in the above is whether or not BW intentionally attempt to alter the GTN market.

 

The answer is no, why would they bother or care.

 

Yes they bring items back after embargo to generate a real monetary profit for themselves due to those items being popular and now rare so it makes perfect sense for them to do so ( like it or hate it is how it is ) however I completely disagree that they would be doing this in any way, shape or form to manipulate the GTN. Manipulate implies intention and I really doubt there is any intention towards the GTN from BW, just towards selling more items via the CM as was eluded to above anywyay. Anything more rings of conspiracy theories and tin foil hats.

 

Does these actions have an impact on the GTN? Of course it does but it's not intentional and thus not manipulation. They don't care if you pay me 1 million for scalene armour or 100, aslong as someone is paying real money for it from the CM in the first place and they are selling lots ( you won't see them bring back unpopular items after all unless it's a side consequence of bringing back an entire pack ).

[DarthJimilingus]

I've been selling cartel packs for credits for a long time and I usually sell them for around 350-370k each.

And using the 1000 credits per CC conversion, that's given me a small profit on the packs compared to what they cost to buy.

 

However, it seems that with these lowered prices, people are just throwing the long established cc/credit ratio out the window.

There's cartel packs on the GTN for 200k when the packs cost 250CC to buy.

I don't get why people do it either. Its not like the packs don't sell.

They were selling like ice cream on a hot sunday at 370k, but then someone put them up for 228k each (yeah, wierd number, I know) and then others put them up for less and so on and so forth.

Of course, those sold first, and then the prices were up to 300k+ again, and still selling.

But then someone put up a hypercrate worth of packs for 220k each.

And the prices went down to 200k each again.

 

I just don't get it.

I know the packs are cheaper now, but are people really that stupid that they'll undercut even to the point of not making a profit any more?

 

I just switched to selling 600k escrows again instead and opened the packs that didn't sell instead.

(out of which I got 2 dathomir chestpieces and alot of other high-priced items so I'm covered there).

 

EDIT: oh and btw, for anyone wanting to whine about how I'm "buying credits", I can just say that I don't have the time to invest in the game any more and this lets me bypass grinding dailies by using some of the money I earn from not playing the game (ie. working) to still keep myself economically afloat in the game.

 

Clearly we are on different servers. Packs can drop to 150K per on POT5. Mostly it rounds out at 200K per with some of the more sought after packs getting CLOSE to 300K but usually I wont buy it if its over 200K. IMO not worth the cash to get a lame adaptive gear box that includes legs/boots and a Small reputation item.

[DarthVengeant]

Threads where people complain about GTN pricing in a video game are just hilarious. Seriously, it is a GAME.

[ChicksDigHarleys]

Threads where people complain about GTN pricing in a video game are just hilarious. Seriously, it is a GAME.

 

Seriously. These people would stroke out playing EVE, where you can buy an item on the market similar to a cartel pack that you can use to extend your subscription.

[Kourage]

I've been selling cartel packs for credits for a long time and I usually sell them for around 350-370k each.

And using the 1000 credits per CC conversion, that's given me a small profit on the packs compared to what they cost to buy.

 

However, it seems that with these lowered prices, people are just throwing the long established cc/credit ratio out the window.

There's cartel packs on the GTN for 200k when the packs cost 250CC to buy.

I don't get why people do it either. Its not like the packs don't sell.

They were selling like ice cream on a hot sunday at 370k, but then someone put them up for 228k each (yeah, wierd number, I know) and then others put them up for less and so on and so forth.

Of course, those sold first, and then the prices were up to 300k+ again, and still selling.

But then someone put up a hypercrate worth of packs for 220k each.

And the prices went down to 200k each again.

 

I just don't get it.

I know the packs are cheaper now, but are people really that stupid that they'll undercut even to the point of not making a profit any more?

 

I just switched to selling 600k escrows again instead and opened the packs that didn't sell instead.

(out of which I got 2 dathomir chestpieces and alot of other high-priced items so I'm covered there).

 

EDIT: oh and btw, for anyone wanting to whine about how I'm "buying credits", I can just say that I don't have the time to invest in the game any more and this lets me bypass grinding dailies by using some of the money I earn from not playing the game (ie. working) to still keep myself economically afloat in the game.

 

 

 

I don't see the problem. If they are really selling like Ice cream on a hot Sunday, then you should buy them all and relist them at a higher price. You do understand, however, that there are some people who play this game to control the market. Maybe they earn 100k or more a year and have lots of money to throw away can can afford to do whatever they want. Maybe they just enjoy selling things that people want at a price more of them can afford. That's their prerogative.

[Grayseven]

Right now, the only accurate measure of CC to credit has to come from gold sellers that spam fleet. They offer 1 million credits for 7.18 USD. With the purchase price of 5500 CC being 49.99 USD that puts the cash value of CC at around 110 CC per USD. Using those hard numbers you come out to 790 CC for 7.18 USD which can buy 1 million credits which would mean that the CC to credit ratio is around 1265 cr per CC.

 

However, that assumes that gold sellers have an accurate measure of what 1 million credits are worth in USD. I don't think they do but then again I don't use bot programs to farm Makeb chests for endless credits.

 

Ultimately, it comes down to what an individual feels 1 million credits are worth. Right now you can get a hypercrate of Architect packs for 5400 CC. 24 packs for around 48.5 USD worth of CC. That same 48.5 could net you 6.75 million from the gold sellers (if you want to infect your computer with keyloggers and face the possibility of a ban from the game anyway) so to realize the same amount from 24 packs would mean you'd have to sell them for 281, 250 cr each. That isn't an unreasonable number for those of us who regularly buy packs from the GTN.

 

But if you feel that netting only 3.6 million credits off of 24 packs is fine considering you don't have to worry about bans and keyloggers and such, then selling the same packs at 150k is also very reasonable.

 

It comes down to nothing more than what an individual wants to see as a return for their CC. So there isn't a "set ratio" for CC to credit for anyone but you as an individual. There are no "long established precedents" because we've all seen the wild fluctuations that throw that theory out the window.

 

If you, as an individual, want to stick to a 1000-1 ratio that is your choice but don't try to project that choice onto others as if it is a rule that has to be obeyed.

[OddballEasyEight]

I don't see the problem. If they are really selling like Ice cream on a hot Sunday, then you should buy them all and relist them at a higher price. You do understand, however, that there are some people who play this game to control the market. Maybe they earn 100k or more a year and have lots of money to throw away can can afford to do whatever they want. Maybe they just enjoy selling things that people want at a price more of them can afford. That's their prerogative.

 

I did that.

Bought almost all of the packs he put up first time at 228k. Spent all my money (slightly less than 10 million at the time).

But a few minutes later, he had put up 2 more hypercrates worth of packs at the same price.

And then someone else startd putting up packs for less than his.

And so on and so forth.

The price never went up again. I managed to sell enough packs for 250k over night to make that money back, but when I woke up that morning, the prices were down to around 200k so I just grabbed the unsold packs I got back from the GTN and opened them instead.

It's kinda sad in a way, that I made more money from selling the stuff inside the boxes than I would have from selling the boxes themselves.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

It's kinda sad in a way, that I made more money from selling the stuff inside the boxes than I would have from selling the boxes themselves.

 

I almost always manage this on Harbinger. I rarely on sell the packs and if I was going to I would hold on to them until embargo anyway.

 

Sometimes I make a small loss if it's on newer packs or break even but buying up anything on embargo ( or that you know will embargo soon ) and opening the items almost always yields a tidy profit.

[Deewe]

For the record just bought an agent hypercrate for 114k each pack on my server.

 

Interesting.