It's time to merge the two PVP servers...

[BuriDogshin]

Don't forget about all the lost names as well.

And the lost character slots. One server less means 20 less alts I can roll.

[LordArtemis]

no it won't , what they are asking for is to merge the east and west coast servers ( a Epic fail for many reasons)

there is only 1 ec and 1 wc pvp server currently. Again heck, if we are going to merge east and west, merge it all why have the EU version??? Lets lop on players on top of players, to snarls with logistics

 

Ah, my mistake, I thought there were 4 servers.

[Ursus-SUON]

I've played on all NA servers except for jedi covenant . Every server atleast has a stable population and "hot" hours for queues. If I could have my way, all the NA servers would be 1 super server because imo star wars is meant to be a massive player universe and the smaller pops on servers take that away at times. Back in the days of competitive cs, east and west coast teams that had to play each other played on a CENTRAL server, usually chicago. All of NA pings moderately well to chicago, the only people left out would be Europeans/Aussies. I'm east coast and ping an avg 70-80ms to bastion and I have slow cable internet. Obviously the dream for me would be 1 super server, but if cross server queues were available that would be a step in the right direction, however I feel that it would be difficult.

[DarthOvertone]

A pvp server is about open world pvp because that is the ONLY difference between a pve and pvp server.

 

Actually, that's not the only difference between a PvE and PvP server. In regard to structural gameplay, you are correct. Open world PvP is about the only difference.

 

However, there is another difference that people often overlook, and that difference is simple. People who play on a PvP server primarily enjoy PvPing in this game. While that may not sound like a big deal, it certainly makes a huge difference when it comes down to Ranked play and endgame PvP.

 

In another thread, a player tallied up the numbers for Season 3 Ranked PvP participation: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=773038&page=3. Notice that the majority total of participants play on PvP servers:

 

TOFN: 3262 (23.2%)

Bastion: 2202 (15.7%)

POT5: 1780 (12.7%)

TRE: 1213 (8.6%)

T3-M4: 1056 (7.5%)

Ebon Hawk: 912 (6.5%)

Jung Ma: 723 (5.1%)

Jedi Covenant: 712 (5.1%)

Harb: 600 (4.3%)

Progenitor: 569 (4.0%)

Shadowlands: 426 (3.0%)

Darth Nihilus: 419 (3.0%)

Mantle of the Force: 287 (1.6%)

BC: 195 (1.4%)

 

The fact of the matter is that if you want to play SWTOR PvP in any sort of competitive way (and I use the word competitive loosely here lol), you are infinitely better off playing on a PvP server. That is due to the like-minded nature of the player base on those servers.

 

I do not want to shock you but queuing for warzones has nothing to do with being on a pvp server.

 

This may or may not be true for WZs queues on PvE and PvP servers. You have stats to backup your claim? While most PvP servers are lower pop than some of the PvE servers, War Zones pretty much pop around the clock in all three brackets (T1 and T2 Lowbies, and Regz) on those servers. When I level a toon, I do so almost exclusively through PvP, mixing in Class missions. I did this successfully for almost all of my toons, and even did it for an entire legacy on Jung Ma, which happens to be the lowest pop PvP server. I would be interested to see some real numbers and if that is truly the case on a PvE server.

 

One thing I can tell you is that I seriously doubt Ranked Arenas pop with the same frequency on a PvE server as they do on a PvP Server. Sure, there may be a couple PvE servers that seem to hang, but Ranked participation on PvP servers blows most PvE servers out of the water just based on the stats above.

 

 

Back when the devs actually reported this type of information, there was an extremely high participation in warzones. Around guild summit timeframe was the last time they mentioned anything, however.

 

We're definitely going back in time, but nearly half of all players participated in PvP at launch...per BW: http://www.swtor.com/blog/new-year%E2%80%99s-pvp-update

 

I know things have changed dramatically since that time, but I would think it's safe to say at least 30% or so of the population still PvPs on a daily basis in this game.

[LordArtemis]

Actually, that's not the only difference between a PvE and PvP server. In regard to structural gameplay, you are correct. Open world PvP is about the only difference.

 

However, there is another difference that people often overlook, and that difference is simple. People who play on a PvP server primarily enjoy PvPing in this game. While that may not sound like a big deal, it certainly makes a huge difference when it comes down to Ranked play and endgame PvP.

 

In another thread, a player tallied up the numbers for Season 3 Ranked PvP participation: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=773038&page=3. Notice that the majority total of participants play on PvP servers:

 

 

 

The fact of the matter is that if you want to play SWTOR PvP in any sort of competitive way (and I use the word competitive loosely here lol), you are infinitely better off playing on a PvP server. That is due to the like-minded nature of the player base on those servers.

 

 

 

This may or may not be true for WZs queues on PvE and PvP servers. You have stats to backup your claim? While most PvP servers are lower pop than some of the PvE servers, War Zones pretty much pop around the clock in all three brackets (T1 and T2 Lowbies, and Regz) on those servers. When I level a toon, I do so almost exclusively through PvP, mixing in Class missions. I did this successfully for almost all of my toons, and even did it for an entire legacy on Jung Ma, which happens to be the lowest pop PvP server. I would be interested to see some real numbers and if that is truly the case on a PvE server.

 

One thing I can tell you is that I seriously doubt Ranked Arenas pop with the same frequency on a PvE server as they do on a PvP Server. Sure, there may be a couple PvE servers that seem to hang, but Ranked participation on PvP servers blows most PvE servers out of the water just based on the stats above.

 

 

 

 

We're definitely going back in time, but nearly half of all players participated in PvP at launch...per BW: http://www.swtor.com/blog/new-year%E2%80%99s-pvp-update

 

I know things have changed dramatically since that time, but I would think it's safe to say at least 30% or so of the population still PvPs on a daily basis in this game.

 

It looks like, from what you posted for season 3, less than 7 percent of folks participate in ranked play game wide. I can see how a 30 percent participation (all forms of PVP, casual and hardcore) could reach 30 percent.

 

But I think it's more likely, since the ranked play seems to coincide with some of the market studies I have seen it is more likely to sit around total participation of less than 15 percent. The general rule is that you double the amount of folks that participate in ranked, and that is the general amount that participate in all PVP activities.

 

Now, that is on the high end of most market estimates, which is good for this game, speaks to the health of the PVP community. It also supports the idea that 50 percent of the folks that do participate in PVP generally participate in ranked PVP.

 

I was actually hoping to see higher ranked participation.

[Savej]

It looks like, from what you posted for season 3, less than 7 percent of folks participate in ranked play game wide. I can see how a 30 percent participation (all forms of PVP, casual and hardcore) could reach 30 percent.

 

But I think it's more likely, since the ranked play seems to coincide with some of the market studies I have seen it is more likely to sit around total participation of less than 15 percent. The general rule is that you double the amount of folks that participate in ranked, and that is the general amount that participate in all PVP activities.

 

Now, that is on the high end of most market estimates, which is good for this game, speaks to the health of the PVP community. It also supports the idea that 50 percent of the folks that do participate in PVP generally participate in ranked PVP.

 

I was actually hoping to see higher ranked participation.

 

Where are you getting your 7% # from? The percentages shown in the data you quoted is not about % of people that have played ranked vs total population, it's showing where characters (not players) that have an arena rating happen to be. For example: 23.2% of every character on the leaderboards is on TOFN. Those numbers are old, btw (the current % of leaderboard characters from TOFN is just under 20% according to a parse I just ran).

 

What market studies?

 

"The general rule is that you double the amount of folks that participate in ranked, and that is the general amount that participate in all PVP activities." - Total bs. Far more people play wzs than play ranked. First, you need to be 55 to play ranked - not everyone that qs for pvp is 55. Second, you need be on a server that supports a ranked q - there are many pvpers on many servers that have virtually no ranked q activity and many others that have much less than 100 ranked games popping in a given week. Ranked queues are just about the least friendly system imaginable and are not popular amongst many people that like to pvp. There are currently less than 20k characters on the leaderboards for season #3's solo queue. And the average number of ranked games won per character on the leaderboards is under 10. That's a tiny portion of the number of characters in the game and not much activity at all from most of them.

 

Shard      # of Chars       Avg Wins/Char       % vs Tot Chars
Tomb of Freedon Nadd	3566	15.88	%19.01
The Bastion	2439	11.97	%13.00
The Harbinger	2347	8.40	%12.51
Prophecy of the Five	1956	9.34	%10.43
The Red Eclipse	1534	7.03	%8.18
T3-M4	1209	6.04	%6.44
The Ebon Hawk	1075	5.23	%5.73
Jedi Covenant	927	5.06	%4.94
Jung Ma	812	6.57	%4.33
The Progenitor	613	5.36	%3.27
The Shadowlands	583	3.51	%3.11
Darth Nihilus	500	3.94	%2.66
Mantle of the Force	375	4.07	%2.00
Jar'Kai Sword	373	3.83	%1.99
Begeren Colony	257	2.75	%1.37
Battle Meditation	145	3.07	%0.77
Vanjervalis Chain	51	2.84	%0.27

Edited November 6, 2014 by Savej

[Capote]

Since BW is already in Austin anyway why don't they merge both servers and make a central one (not east nor west coast)? I mean, by using others MMOs as base it is really not THAT of a difference in latency. I know you don't like this name around here but Wildstar's megaservers are a good example. Edited November 6, 2014 by Capote

[LordArtemis]

It is one thing to dispute my opinion, which is welcome naturally. It is quite another to call it BS. I think my post history clearly demonstrates I am not in the habit of posting information that is not accurate, or based on accurate data, nor do I state things are facts unless they are. I am pretty clear about avoiding absolutes and posting when things are my opinion.

 

Also, the studies I allude to are common knowledge, and have been posted and discussed in this forum multiple times. This is speaking to known market norms, which I also clearly indicated may not the case here.

 

Finally, I made it clear that this game could certainly break the mold. If your saying that information is actual unique characters, that means participation levels could be even lower. Naturally it is purely speculative. Unless they posted hard participation data (like perhaps they did at launch) the actual participation levels are not known.

 

If you are saying that that is only percentages of characters that actually participated against itself, should it not be lower percentages based on total participation levels? Otherwise I am unsure what it represents, not that that means it is disreputable....only that I am perhaps too dense to grasp it, which certainly is possible.

 

After all, if total number of characters does not mean total individuals, nor does it mean unique individuals, an individual could play multiple characters multiple times.

 

At any rate, you clearly posted your opinion. I respected myself enough to refrain from calling your estimate BS. You should probably do the same if you wish to demonstrate self respect.

Edited November 6, 2014 by LordArtemis

[TUXs]

The general rule is that you double the amount of folks that participate in ranked, and that is the general amount that participate in all PVP activities.

Whoa lol! Where on earth did you dig up that bogus number? Dude, that is absolute bunk. In our guild of around 50+ active players, I know of TWO players who do ranked, but not one who doesn't PvP at all. Your general rule is absolute folly sir.

[Jadescythe]

It looks like, from what you posted for season 3, less than 7 percent of folks participate in ranked play game wide. I can see how a 30 percent participation (all forms of PVP, casual and hardcore) could reach 30 percent.

 

But I think it's more likely, since the ranked play seems to coincide with some of the market studies I have seen it is more likely to sit around total participation of less than 15 percent. The general rule is that you double the amount of folks that participate in ranked, and that is the general amount that participate in all PVP activities.

 

Now, that is on the high end of most market estimates, which is good for this game, speaks to the health of the PVP community. It also supports the idea that 50 percent of the folks that do participate in PVP generally participate in ranked PVP.

 

I was actually hoping to see higher ranked participation.

 

Considering alts on leaderboards, I would say less than 5% of the player base participates in ranked regularly. There may be a higher percentage that queue for conquest points or get 10 games for the end of season rewards, but definitely less than 5% of players who want to do ranked.

 

The casual PvP in this game, however, has a very wide audience. I wouldn't say 50% of players play a warzone every day, but 50% or more do at least a warzone every week they log in. The objective gameplay of warzones is more appealing to the casual audience over the arena only option in ranked.

[Vicen]

It's clear that this needs to happen in some way...shape...or form!

[Heezdedjim]

Cross-server queues. For all servers. Problem solved.

[krisknife]

Cross-server queues. For all servers. Problem solved.

 

exactly you merge happy people need to learn lol, and as for BW being in austin learn your facts please. The early beta servers were all in Austin, but the servers now are located in Santa Clara, CA and Ashburn, VA.

 

You will get very different latency connecting to east coast or west coast servers. end this please it's not rationale you guys are asking for the wrong things,

Edited November 6, 2014 by krisknife

[LordArtemis]

Considering alts on leaderboards, I would say less than 5% of the player base participates in ranked regularly. There may be a higher percentage that queue for conquest points or get 10 games for the end of season rewards, but definitely less than 5% of players who want to do ranked.

 

The casual PvP in this game, however, has a very wide audience. I wouldn't say 50% of players play a warzone every day, but 50% or more do at least a warzone every week they log in. The objective gameplay of warzones is more appealing to the casual audience over the arena only option in ranked.

 

Fair enough, as I mentioned, SWTOR could very well "break the mold" in this aspect, as we already know it does not follow the industry standard when it comes to F2P revenue.

 

I would still like to have seen more players participate in ranked play.

[Savej]

Considering alts on leaderboards, I would say less than 5% of the player base participates in ranked regularly. There may be a higher percentage that queue for conquest points or get 10 games for the end of season rewards, but definitely less than 5% of players who want to do ranked.

 

The casual PvP in this game, however, has a very wide audience. I wouldn't say 50% of players play a warzone every day, but 50% or more do at least a warzone every week they log in. The objective gameplay of warzones is more appealing to the casual audience over the arena only option in ranked.

 

If you take one number that BW recently bragged to investors about regarding number of players logging in and chop that in half, and you assume every character on the leaderboard represents one player, than almost 4% of players have done ranked in season 3. And that's as optimistic as that number gets. But according to every verified metric I've seen and lots of observations, around half of everyone does some form of pvp if not more. i can very confidently say that this game's handling of pvp has cost them. But lotr's handling of pvp cost them far more - that setting was practically screaming for real pvp...

[LordArtemis]

If you take one number that BW recently bragged to investors about regarding number of players logging in and chop that in half, and you assume every character on the leaderboard represents one player, than almost 4% of players have done ranked in season 3. And that's as optimistic as that number gets. But according to every verified metric I've seen and lots of observations, around half of everyone does some form of pvp if not more. i can very confidently say that this game's handling of pvp has cost them. But lotr's handling of pvp cost them far more - that setting was practically screaming for real pvp...

 

I would agree, LotROs PVP is generally judged as very poor among MMOs that have PVP.

 

I always disliked the fact that I couldn't roll an orc. The only way to play an "evil" character in that game is to PVP, and the PVP system is pretty poor to boot.

 

My time there was short.

[Damask_Rose]

I would agree, LotROs PVP is generally judged as very poor among MMOs that have PVP.

 

I always disliked the fact that I couldn't roll an orc. The only way to play an "evil" character in that game is to PVP, and the PVP system is pretty poor to boot.

 

My time there was short.

 

I really loved the early days in the Moors! Ahh fond memories of my weaver Sadly it got worse rather than better over time.

 

In this game, most of the ranked players I knew quit playing ranked, or quit the game entirely, when they switched to arenas. From my experience, it was not a popular change, but not as devastating to pvp numbers as the 1 year delay on season 1. The server I was on pretty much died over night when that got announced.

[Vicen]

Well at least we tried

[Jandi]

Nobody is on the PvP servers because nobody cares about PvP. If people did care about PvP they'd be on the PvP servers.

 

This is so true. PvP in this game is so trite that almost nobody cares about it and almost everyone that does care about PvP is playing something else.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Jandi

[Capote]

I just wish they didn't completely ignore every merge/population problem topic. A honest reply on how they see the server's population and what's their plans on that matter would be nice.

[krisknife]

I just wish they didn't completely ignore every merge/population problem topic. A honest reply on how they see the server's population and what's their plans on that matter would be nice.

 

why would they? Anything they post is going to spark outrage .....think about it.

 

If they take middle ground....

"Hey guys , Sorry about the problems. We are working to solve issue."

 

Will result in-

"What kind of answer is that?"

"oh the run around again"

"no seriously answer our questions....How??"

"qq"

"qqqq"

"qqqqqqq"

 

If they provide how they are going to deal with it.

 

"hey guys we are going to merge RP-PVP and PVP servers" *example calm down people*

 

would result in -

 

"**** NOOOOOOOOOO"

" really??" rage quit/unsub

"qq"

"qqqqq"

"qqqqqqqqqq"

 

They are danged if they do, danged if they don't. What we call a no win situation. Rest assured though, they are well aware of their server populations, and no thread, no poll, no opinion really really put out there, will ever change their minds or make them do something about it, they already have decided or not decided to do about it and we get to find out later lol.

 

Servers are merged as far as they can go so BW has done something already, cross-server functions maybe our only hope to really fix game for hardcore players

Edited November 8, 2014 by krisknife

[Lotharofxev]

Merge? Or just enact X-server queues?

[Capote]

why would they? Anything they post is going to spark outrage .....think about it.

 

If they take middle ground....

"Hey guys , Sorry about the problems. We are working to solve issue."

 

Will result in-

"What kind of answer is that?"

"oh the run around again"

"no seriously answer our questions....How??"

"qq"

"qqqq"

"qqqqqqq"

 

If they provide how they are going to deal with it.

 

"hey guys we are going to merge RP-PVP and PVP servers" *example calm down people*

 

would result in -

 

"**** NOOOOOOOOOO"

" really??" rage quit/unsub

"qq"

"qqqqq"

"qqqqqqqqqq"

 

They are danged if they do, danged if they don't. What we call a no win situation. Rest assured though, they are well aware of their server populations, and no thread, no poll, no opinion really really put out there, will ever change their minds or make them do something about it, they already have decided or not decided to do about it and we get to find out later lol.

 

Servers are merged as far as they can go so BW has done something already, cross-server functions maybe our only hope to really fix game for hardcore players

 

I agree with you that a topic won't change their minds. What I meant is that I'd like to know their point of view on the subject. Should I keep expecting a merge or the metrics shows it's not needed?

 

It is also true that they'll face whining no matter what they say, but isn't it better than the feeling of abandonment? IDK, maybe I'm just being too naive and it IS better to just "ignore" us.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Capote

[Vicen]

I just wish they didn't completely ignore every merge/population problem topic. A honest reply on how they see the server's population and what's their plans on that matter would be nice.

 

A reply of some sort would indeed be quite nice on this issue. As it stands I have rerolled on another server until the problem is fixed (if ever).

[seanisawake]

We just need cross server ques.