Quraswren Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) You mean, aside from the 2 new operations and 5 levels of story content? No, I mean leveling 5 levels and being no better at what I do then when I was at 55. Doesn't matter what story content is there or ops. You'll be no better than what you were 5 levels ago. Edited October 31, 2014 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Power creep is bad thing. BW chose to do exactly opposite this time. Good. You'll be no better that what you were 5 levels ago. I'm going to use Basic commendations to upgrade my gear! Me hopes for 180 set bonus! Edited October 31, 2014 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Power creep is bad thing. BW chose to do exactly opposite this time. Good. I'm going to use Basic commendations to upgrade my gear! Me hopes for 180 set bonus! I doubt you can get set bonuses with comms but for those already in 180/186, they will level 5 levels, get new 196 or higher gear and be no better at what they do than when they had 180/186 gear. It's a leveling experience to stay the same or less and to keep 2 worn out OPS in play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) I doubt you can get set bonuses with comms but for those already in 180/186, they will level 5 levels, get new 196 or higher gear and be no better at what they do than when they had 180/186 gear. It's a leveling experience to stay the same or less and to keep 2 worn out OPS in play. I can get 146 set bonus with Classic comms now. It's still better than Black Market without set bonus. Only Arkanian would be upgrade but it requires "not for tanks" tokens from HM operations. And of course Arkanian set bonus > 180 without set bonus. Edited October 31, 2014 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drockter Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 But you won't be staying the same. Upon launch, your DPS output will be reduced to what the game was designed for @ level 55. You will then increase your DPS over the next 5 levels to what the game is designed for @ level 60. I agree with the poster above, power creep is not a good thing. Adjusting power levels to provide the challange that was intended is not bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anwg Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 They can decrease your damage by 10% and boss HP by 10% and it'll look like a nerf but it's not; or they can increase yours by 10% but increase boss HP by 50%, so it'll look like a buff but in fact is a nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 They can decrease your damage by 10% and boss HP by 10% and it'll look like a nerf but it's not; Exactly. If they manage to balance HP levels to match the new damage output of raiders then it shouldn't be a problem. Yes, smaller numbers will pop up but you can still kill the boss, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danw Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I do understand why they are doing it but it flips the hallmark of an MMO, character advancement, on its head in a very unsatisfying way. This is not entirely accurate, "character" advancement stops when you reach max level, "Stat" advancement is done through gear after that. People always thing gear = character development, but that is not accurate, gear is the way to give the impression of advancement where none exists in order to lengthen the games content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baraxis Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 The thing I keep hearing is they are making "leveling content" easier. The quote was 50 and below being easier. 51-55 is just going to feel the pinch of the scaled down DPS. Oricon is going to be quite a different story with the interrupts and DPS changes. Seems they aren't thinking everything through, just worried about the Gangs...er....Guilds that have reached end game gearing and are moving forward. Not those that are currently gearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantaro Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I think no game gets me excited for an expansion,than when i get more info not wanna play the game for 6 months like swtor does..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) IMO they should adjust 51 to 55 as well. They can leave 56 to 60 as they have it. If they are going to make this change, the entire current game should change to match it IMO. That means, generally speaking of course..... 1) Adjustment of health or armor levels on all mobs of all types level 1 to 55. 2) Reduction of special attacks by all strong and elite mobs, either by extended cooldowns, reduced damage or reduced pools level 1 to 55. This would go a long way, IMO toward making both changes (interrupt cooldowns and reduced damage) easy to accept by casual players. Edited October 31, 2014 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantaro Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 IMO they should adjust 51 to 55 as well. They can leave 56 to 60 as they have it. If they are going to make this change, the entire current game should change to match it IMO. That means, generally speaking of course..... 1) Adjustment of health or armor levels on all mobs of all types level 1 to 55. 2) Reduction of special attacks by all strong and elite mobs, either by extended cooldowns, reduced damage or reduced pools level 1 to 55. This would go a long way, IMO toward making both changes (interrupt cooldowns and reduced damage) easy to accept by casual players. I like this solution.but so far all i heard was make leveling faster.Why the hell do i wanna play a leveling based game if i'm not gonna feel more powerful when level increases happen. All the more reason to play more sandboxes and less themeparks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlBuzzard Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I like this solution.but so far all i heard was make leveling faster.Why the hell do i wanna play a leveling based game if i'm not gonna feel more powerful when level increases happen. All the more reason to play more sandboxes and less themeparks. Respectfully .. I think a lot folks are missing the point. There are several areas that are designed to be tough ... REALLY tough. But as with any game players can and WILL become very efficient. Apparently this had gradually gotten out of hand . This particularly showed up in a few areas: 1. PvP 2. PvE areas where guilds and or PUG would grind regularly (for various reasons) Some noticed some changes were needed. 1. Adjusting the system (DPS) 2. Doing away with Hybrids (to help resolve certain issues). This is just my opinion of what developed. We just need to sort things out and see how we can best fit into the grander scheme of things. I wouldn't go thermal just yet. Let's see what shakes out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 You mean, aside from the 2 new operations and 5 levels of story content? [sARCASM] You must be a noob. That's irrelevant. SWTOR is just a platform for playing Parsec or Torparse. The only reason to play SWTOR is to parse high. That's all that matters. Progression is about parse number progression, it has nothing to do with clearing content. [/sARCASM] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 If the devs saw the damage going higher than they expected/planned for; that means that the content was easier than they had intended. So I don't believe that any change to the existing content would be needed. They are bringing the damage numbers down to what was intended for the content. Not many will be pleased with longer fights... but I personally have no issue with it... i prefer a challenge. ^^^^This. No more facerolling HM DP. Fewer people farming NiM DP. Good changes. But there will always be people who expect a "WIN" button, who think that with good enough gear, no skill should be required to clear the hardest content. To them I echo this advice from the Dread Pirate Roberts: "Get used to disappointment." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Well, this is just my opinion. But I would list how an average player with updated gear and 148 gear at cap would view current content by difficulty. Level 1-50 - Generally ok, but some mobs are overpowered, and some seem to "cheat" with their specials, like having very powerful attacks or healing while attacking. Mob density can be ridiculous at times. Illum - Actually not too bad. Only a few spots where mobs seem to be overpowered. Mob density is about right. Makeb pre-change - Pretty brutal. Not too bad early on, but about 3/4 of the way through the mobs are very dense, and many mobs are overpowered. Final fight is brutal for Imperial, not as bad for Republic. Makeb post change - About the same as illum. Mob density seems to be about right, and with the buff overpowered mobs do not hurt as much. CZ - Can be brutal. Can also be irritating with the close quarters design. Strongs and Elites can be overpowered. With proper tactics this can be manageable. Oricon - Murderous. Most mobs are pretty strong, strongs and elites are deadly. Most dailies are next to impossible, even with tactics, unless you have a group. Not solo friendly to casual players by any stretch. Now, I am all for how it is set up at present. I think CZ and Oricon should be challenging, and Makeb on down should be casual friendly. CZ is about right for a challenge to a solo casual player. Oricon is mostly out of a solo players league IMO. The question I would have is how will this change effect players in 148 gear when the expansion hits? Will those players also notice a DPS decrease? Edited October 31, 2014 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drockter Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 For those calling for an equal decrease in the mobs... that defeats the purpose... Devs, based on metrics, see damage output from players is too high for the content (@55). Response, lower the damage output. If they lower the mob strength proportional to the decrease in damage output ... it negates the change... the imbalance still exists. They are fixing a mistake they made. They made gear/stats available that were more powerful than they should have been. Simple as that. This is why I hate seeing new gear come out without new content. Gear should prepare the player for the new content... the problem with new gear without content, is the new gear is generally more powerful... which creates the imbalance (aka powercreep; more powerful player, same mob level). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Fairly dumb idea for an expansion. Increase levels, increase numbers - that's the fun. It's not completely logical or rational but that's how it works. Starting an expansion with a general nerf will only piss people off, especially those who are already annoyed on some level about the gear reset. You're supposed to increase all of the numbers. To rebalance just increase some more than others i. e. health + armor more than damage to reduce relative dps. Sure that makes some existing content obsolete but that goes along with expansions and level increases, too. How is this not common sense? Edited October 31, 2014 by Savej Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Fairly dumb idea for an expansion. Increase levels, increase numbers - that's the fun. How is this not common sense? Because not everyone considers face-rolling the content the ultimate gaming experience, that's how. There's no sense of accomplishment in doing a task that a trained chimp could accomplish. If it's going to be that easy, why bother having the mobs at all? Why not just let the players just walk from A to B, have a convo, and get the mission completion? That's why several people I know did not approve of the nerfs to Makeb or the Security Chief in Czerka Corporate Labs. It's why some people play games on the "Expert" difficulty setting instead of the "Noob" setting. Edited October 31, 2014 by BuriDogshin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sindariel Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Oh great... So, guilds who are still progressing and struggling to clear the current NiM content will come to a complete halt in 3.0 because they have to regrind their whole gear for months until they are back to their current performance and can continue to progress in the old NiM content, again. Yeaaah... I'm pretty sure they will cry tears of joy... Not every player is a min/maxer who totally overperforms in the current system like those in the leaderbords. Most progression groups are still struggling with DPS checks in DF/DP NiM. And do you guys really think the devs took current boss mechanics into account with the changes to cleanses and interrupts? C'mon, we're talking about Bioware here. They never think ahead... Cleansing the corrosive grenade on Draxus or stopping the despoilers from chain healing, interrupting the elites on Corruptor Zero, cleansing the nanites on Brontes or the deathmarks on Dread Masters, etc.. Those will become a complete mess in 3.0, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanar Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 They have to do it. Otherwise performance becomes an issue. Don't forget this game runs on Hero engine, heavily tweaked, and I'd daresay they really didn't do good job with tweaking. So any increase in calculations, bigger numbers means more strain on PC's, and this game is notorious for it's instancing, poor performance, and total sub optimization, even with best PC's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Because not everyone considers face-rolling the content the ultimate gaming experience, that's how. There's no sense of accomplishment in doing a task that a trained chimp could accomplish. If it's going to be that easy, why bother having the mobs at all? Why not just let the players just walk from A to B, have a convo, and get the mission completion? That's why several people I know did not approve of the nerfs to Makeb or the Security Chief in Czerka Corporate Labs. It's why some people play games on the "Expert" difficulty setting instead of the "Noob" setting. So give the new content higher health pools , better mitigation tools, etc - there are tons of options if it's too easy. Note that they are making it easier for lowbies to faceroll the 1-50ish content according to the stream. Walking into a new patch and suddenly doing less dmg accross the board until I regrind the new lvls and gear so my character can put out the same numbers he can right now? There's no way to call that "fun" unless you're a masochist. Edited October 31, 2014 by Savej Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kissakias Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 No, I mean leveling 5 levels and being no better at what I do then when I was at 55. Doesn't matter what story content is there or ops. You'll be no better than what you were 5 levels ago. correct They should give power at least +1% in each new armor set AT LEAST, not -3%:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sindariel Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Because not everyone considers face-rolling the content the ultimate gaming experience, that's how. What content are you talking about? Clearly NOT NiM content, since i fail to see where people are facerolling through NiM content, currently (except for a very, very few guilds). And SM/HM are a completely different story, because people are simply overgeared for that content and they will still be overgeared in 3.0. Running content with gear that's 3 levels above the required gear level has nothing to do with class balance. Your reasoning makes no sense at all. Edited October 31, 2014 by Sindariel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 ... bigger [damage] numbers means more strain on PC's ... LOL. No, not hardly. Not since the days of the 16-bit micros. Adding 1,000 to 2,000 takes the same amount of time as adding 1,000,000 to 2,000,0000. Double-precision may take longer than single-precision, but that's because of the increased precision, not because the numbers are larger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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