Tastelessjoker Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Seriously this (bug?) is annoying and makes no sense. Sleep dart from Operatives is not classified as mental, physical, or tech (it should be tech or mental just like every other mez), and therefore cannot be cleansed by any class. The assassin sap is classified as mental and can be cleansed by specced healers and all sorcs. I seem to remember a Dev post from forever ago saying that they knew of the problem. This is especially a huge issue when facing hard swap teams, as it is forcing us to have to run an assassin tank so he can hide in stealth. Bug or working as intended? (I seriously doubt this is WAI) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adovir Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I love operative rage threads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haystak Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) Its only usuable in stealth, and is one of the few class mechanics stealth have.....other than stealth ofcourse. Also....theres a hardswap group able to remove their enemies from combat? That is a pretty impressive feat. I actually want to see it happen. You cant sap a target that is in combat. Which means that either everyone has to get into stealth and out of combat, get their sap off(if their are multiple saps), and go back into combat. A single operative going into stealth is not going to clear an enemy from combat unless he is being tunneled foreve. The requirements for this to happen are pretty high...not impossible, but I would like to see vids of it. Edit: Wait.....Solow?.....you are complaining?....about operatives?....am I missing something here.... Edited October 29, 2014 by Haystak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouerTue Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 compared to the other dots i cannot cleance anymore, i'm not feeling upset for this issue. but we could nerf operatives anyway. its never enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPepssi Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Seriously this (bug?) is annoying and makes no sense. Sleep dart from Operatives is not classified as mental, physical, or tech (it should be tech or mental just like every other mez), and therefore cannot be cleansed by any class. The assassin sap is classified as mental and can be cleansed by specced healers and all sorcs. I seem to remember a Dev post from forever ago saying that they knew of the problem. This is especially a huge issue when facing hard swap teams, as it is forcing us to have to run an assassin tank so he can hide in stealth. Bug or working as intended? (I seriously doubt this is WAI) Troll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 If this is true it's a legitimate issue though. Assassins Mind Trap suffers from all the same requirements to be met before it can work. And it can be cleansed off just as easily. Stating the argument that "it can only be used from stealth, and only on targets out of combat" isn't a valid argument because Assassins have to deal with exactly that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 If this is true it's a legitimate issue though. Assassins Mind Trap suffers from all the same requirements to be met before it can work. And it can be cleansed off just as easily. Stating the argument that "it can only be used from stealth, and only on targets out of combat" isn't a valid argument because Assassins have to deal with exactly that as well. It is true. I cleanse mind traps all the time and out of habit always try to cleanse sleeping darts. But it honestly doesn't affect the game that much since 99.9% of healers/cleanse capable players never cleanse it, not even in arenas. Plus we do have the advantage in sap capping since we can PW right after sap and then can resap then from 30m, I would say it is a fair trade off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tastelessjoker Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) No, this is not a troll (I guess when regstars read something they can't comprehend they immediately assume troll?). Yes, I do main Operative. This is an issue that is pretty specific for team ranked versus good hard swap teams. It is used in an opening of a round before combat begins, and generally forces a stun break/barrier/etc right off the bat which is huge when facing hard swap. The Assassin's one is cleansable, the operative's should be too. I love operative rage threads How exactly is this an operative rage thread? This really isn't a complaint about Operatives. I love Operatives, it's my main, I hope they don't get their healing nerfed, get their damage buffed, etc. This is just about an issue in ranked. Edited October 29, 2014 by Tastelessjoker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vennian Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I love operative rage threads I hate people who don't get the main issue. OP's concern is a legitimate one as several have stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adovir Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Fine let me clarify, I love operative complaint threads And yes I understand the issue it's just I, like a poster above, find it kind of a moot point because of the amount of healers who cleanse saps, and in ranked(solo) no one will cleanse you and in ranked(grouped) if a mez 1 sap is messing you up then you're a bad team because, again as a poster said above, it can only happen realistically 1 time per match at the start of a match. If it's a healer and they specced into sedatives the 50% damage debuff shouldn't really make a difference because good ranked teams don't kill in the first few minuets. If it's a legit bug, fix it because stupid bugs are stupid but other than that it's meh pretty much in every form of pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cretinus Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 compared to the other dots i cannot cleance anymore, i'm not feeling upset for this issue. but we could nerf operatives anyway. its never enough Nerf operatives. Nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusFTW Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 This is true and its annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tastelessjoker Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) Fine let me clarify, I love operative complaint threads And yes I understand the issue it's just I, like a poster above, find it kind of a moot point because of the amount of healers who cleanse saps, and in ranked(solo) no one will cleanse you and in ranked(grouped) if a mez 1 sap is messing you up then you're a bad team because, again as a poster said above, it can only happen realistically 1 time per match at the start of a match. If it's a healer and they specced into sedatives the 50% damage debuff shouldn't really make a difference because good ranked teams don't kill in the first few minuets. If it's a legit bug, fix it because stupid bugs are stupid but other than that it's meh pretty much in every form of pvp First of all, as a healer or dps with a cleanse I will cleanse you in solo ranked. But the game shouldn't be balances around solo ranked or regs anyway, it should be balanced around the highest level of play in team ranked, and the effects will trickle down to other game types. Secondly, getting a sap off and immediately opening as a burst comp has a greater effect that you realize. Like I stated before and I guess you didn't comprehend, it tips the scale of the game by forcing an escape ability to be used immediately. It does not guarantee a win by any means, but it is very annoying seeing as how this mechanic being used is broken. You bringing up the 50% DR after sap talent that no one takes tells me you have no idea what this is being used for. Basically, it is used at the start of a game by a high burst team. They will sap the enemy tank so he cannot guard swap and immediately burst an unguarded target. Because the sap cannot be cleansed this forces an early break from the tank or an escape (barrier/phasewalk/breaker/etc) from the target being bursted. CC breakers and escapes when facing hard swap are like gold and being forced to use one immediately at the start of the game because of a broken mechanic is a bit dumb. Edited October 29, 2014 by Tastelessjoker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adovir Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 First of all, as a healer or dps with a cleanse I will cleanse you in solo ranked. But the game shouldn't be balances around solo ranked or regs anyway, it should be balanced around the highest level of play in team ranked, and the effects will trickle down to other game types.thats what you do, guess how many people actually do that, not many, aka what a lot of people have said in the past. Cleanses are a thing but very few healers use it outside of grouped ranked Secondly, getting a sap off and immediately opening as a burst comp has a greater effect that you realize. Like I stated before and I guess you didn't comprehend, it tips the scale of the game by forcing an escape ability to be used immediately. It does not guarantee a win by any means, but it is very annoying seeing as how this mechanic being used is broken.again you bring up team ranked, if your team is getting killed bc one person is getting sapped then your team is garbage and you should get that looked into. Sap a healer, tank steps it's game up for a bit and dps manage cool downs properly, tank gets sapped, doesn't really change much just need to be slightly cautious of what is being popped on you. Dps gets sapped doesn't change much because you will never kill a competent group just because one player is mezedfor a bit You bringing up the 50% DR after sap talent that no one takes tells me you have no idea what this is being used for. Basically, it is used at the start of a game by a high burst team. They will sap the enemy tank so he cannot guard swap and immediately burst an unguarded target. Because the sap cannot be cleansed this forces an early break from the tank or an escape (barrier/phasewalk/breaker/etc) from the target being bursted. CC breakers and escapes when facing hard swap are like gold and being forced to use one immediately at the start of the game because of a broken mechanic is a bit dumbobviously you know nothing about debating, you bring up possible counter arguments and find a way to shut them down before they can be used. I do know almost no one takes that talent but there is always that one person who says what if, so I decided to take that away from them. . /5char Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tastelessjoker Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) tank gets sapped, doesn't really change much just need to be slightly cautious of what is being popped on you You clearly don't do team ranked, especially not vs hard swap teams. Edited October 29, 2014 by Tastelessjoker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusFTW Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) Its broken and should be cleansable. Even in regs its annoying if you got a stealthy who ninja capped you for example and your team mates are spam capping to lure him out... an oper can keep a target sapped for longer since the target he sapped can't be cleansed... while u can pop a sin out much faster since as a healer u can cleanse the sapped target, building the targets resolve faster. Plus its obviously a bug.. so ye.. Edited October 29, 2014 by AngusFTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 If this is true it's a legitimate issue though. Assassins Mind Trap suffers from all the same requirements to be met before it can work. And it can be cleansed off just as easily. Stating the argument that "it can only be used from stealth, and only on targets out of combat" isn't a valid argument because Assassins have to deal with exactly that as well. well...I agree that it's obviously (from a lore perspective) a tech/mental ability, and all mezzes (except this) are classified, so why doesn't this have a classification? it sounds like an oversight that hasn't been fixed b/c it's almost entirely irrelevant. but it's also an obvious gaff. which is kinda what I was saying about allowing ppl to roll rated gear in a reg queue without allowing ppl to trade-in reg comms for rated (at a 3:1 loss). it's not so much the effect this has on the game as that obvious iniquity is obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adovir Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) You clearly don't do team ranked, especially not vs hard swap teams. Getting sapped in the very start of a game and losing to a hard swap combo bc your teams tank is sapped, that's a thing? Edit: Also did you read what I said, if it's a bug, fix it, I have no problems with it, but if you're losing grouped ranked because your team ****ed up in the beginning by a sap, or that a sap can destroy your team then you need to level up Edited October 29, 2014 by Adovir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ld-Siris Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 3.0 /close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) obviously you know nothing about debating, you bring up possible counter arguments and find a way to shut them down before they can be used. I do know almost no one takes that talent but there is always that one person who says what if, so I decided to take that away from them um...I don't want to get into the actual debate that you're having with this guy about swtor, but I lul'd when I read this. you obviously know nothing about rhetoric (the art of persuasion) and composition. it's called planting a naysayer. it pre-emtively addresses a possible objection that a person reading oppositionally will likely have. it's actually a very rudimentary/basic technique. I teach it in frosh comp classes. you ought to be familiar with it. yeah. I just played one of those "he's that guy" cards, but I couldn't help it. I thought it was cool to see one of those techniques brought up on the forum. Edited October 29, 2014 by foxmob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adovir Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 um...I don't want to get into the actual debate that you're having with this guy about swtor, but I lul'd when I read this. you obviously know nothing about rhetoric (the art of persuasion) and composition. it's called planting a naysayer. it pre-emtively addresses a possible objection that a person reading oppositionally will likely have. it's actually a very rudimentary/basic technique. I teach it in frosh comp classes. you ought to be familiar with it. yeah. I just played one of those "he's that guy" cards, but I couldn't help it. I thought it was cool to see one of those techniques brought up on the forum. That is what I tried to do, knowing that that talent is in the tree, and knowing that this is a "argument" of the whole sapped at the start I kinda knew that someone would try to bring it up. Also, damn how'd you know I was preparing to be a frosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tastelessjoker Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Getting sapped in the very start of a game and losing to a hard swap combo bc your teams tank is sapped, that's a thing? Edit: Also did you read what I said, if it's a bug, fix it, I have no problems with it, but if you're losing grouped ranked because your team ****ed up in the beginning by a sap, or that a sap can destroy your team then you need to level up Like I said it isn't an auto-loss. In fact we can still win when this happens, especially if we just run a sin tank. It's just an annoyance and broken mechanic that's giving the other team an unnecessary and unintended leg up that shouldn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 That is what I tried to do, knowing that that talent is in the tree, and knowing that this is a "argument" of the whole sapped at the start I kinda knew that someone would try to bring it up. Also, damn how'd you know I was preparing to be a frosh ahha! so you did. I misread as I scanned your replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenjigreat Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Like I said it isn't an auto-loss. In fact we can still win when this happens, especially if we just run a sin tank. It's just an annoyance and broken mechanic that's giving the other team an unnecessary and unintended leg up that shouldn't exist. So'low I am sure Advoir will bring his uber leet Ranked team to Harbinger , He sounds totally legit. Advoir come to Harbinger and que for team ranked , Bring some entertainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adovir Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 So'low I am sure Advoir will bring his uber leet Ranked team to Harbinger , He sounds totally legit. Advoir come to Harbinger and que for team ranked , Bring some entertainment. I never claimed to be some ranked god, I'm far from it. I haven't group ranked in a while but from my experience with my team and or me(as a healer) being sapped, I have never lost a round because of that because my guys were good enough to survive with out a player. On the second part, I'm currently on ToFN right now so yeah I can't go to harbriger and most of my team has quit the game in the last few months. This was never meant to a challenge to anyone, I'm just giving my opinion about getting sapped at the start if a round, cleansable or not. So I'll try to say it again in a different way, if your team is losing in the start of the round in grouped ranked then the other team is probably a lot better than you and you probably weren't going to win, regardless of if you could cleanse the sap or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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