The Rakghoul Event is back.

[grombrinda]

Wow..everyone crying because they can't bother to buy a simple vaccine that gives 6 hours of protection......

[Max_Killjoy]

The only one not grasping things here is you. Let me dissolve your argument right now -

 

The idea that we're bullies. Victims of bullies cannot defend themselves. You can - buy the vaccine.

 

The idea that we're trolls. I'm not, personally, but if you really didn't like trolls you wouldn't feed them as much as you have in this thread alone. Either that 'somehow' slipped your mind, or you're a troll yourself. Either way, not my problem.

 

The idea that you're a victim. Playing this game is a choice, as is almost everything in the game. Bioware thrives on the idea of the choice. You have the choice to do whatever you want, and since you continue playing the game through the event, you're choosing to deal with what happens during the event. When given the option to opt out of the consequences of your choice, you refuse, because apparently you don't have to deal with consequences.

 

Is there anything else that I'm missing? Oh yes, the idea that you hold the moral high ground. You don't. You're a paying customer, I'm a paying customer. We both have our opinions and we're both entitled to them - and neither of us make the decisions about what should and shouldn't be in the game. That's Bioware's call, and since it's their game, they can do whatever they want with it. That's their right as the owners and creators of SWTOR, and they hold the moral high ground above you and I.

 

TL, DR : You have no position to stand on.

 

Yeap, keep on making excuses.

 

If you'd read carefully, it's been made clear that I did not state that you are bullies, but rather that the rationalization that is used to justify bullying is the same as the rationalization being used to paint the people who simply wish to go about their SWTOR playing without taking part in this event as "no fun" and "whiners" and so on.

 

And make no mistake, that's exactly what you're doing in post after post.

[LordArtemis]

This is a tough one, because I have been on both sides of the issue, and in my eyes both sides are right...and both are wrong.

 

To say it is bad for a player to force you to play their way is true, but it is also true to say that you will be effected by other players whether you like it or not in more aspects than simply this event. One can not insulate themselves from being effected by other players in a multiplayer game.

 

Not having an opt out, and getting infected against your will is like flagging a player for PVP against their will, but at the same time this can't be compared to PVP. Flagging you makes you venerable to attack, something you can't avoid in certain cases. In this case, you can. The Vaccine and relic absolutely prevent you from being infected.

 

One could say it is wrong to expect a player to inconvenience themselves, or be inconvenienced for the benefit of others, but then again the very basis of some forms of the game do in fact directly cause you to be the victim...and like this system you can avoid those aspects if you choose.

 

So, do we get rid of the infection event? Make the vaccine 1 credit? Offer an opt out? Make only players that participate in the event venerable to the virus?

 

I don't know. Considering it is rather easy to prevent infection, and rather difficult to infect someone, I'm not sure this is something that really qualifies as intrusive and unfair.

 

It's hard for me to decide either way, because I see the logic in both sides of the argument.

 

I do have one question....if you get infected and take the vaccine, does it cure the infection?

[Darth_Wicked]

I do have one question....if you get infected and take the vaccine, does it cure the infection?

 

Yesss.

[azudelphi]

I do have one question....if you get infected and take the vaccine, does it cure the infection?

 

Yes it does.

[ApostleThirst]

Yeap, keep on making excuses.

 

If you'd read carefully, it's been made clear that I did not state that you are bullies, but rather that the rationalization that is used to justify bullying is the same as the rationalization being used to paint the people who simply wish to go about their SWTOR playing without taking part in this event as "no fun" and "whiners" and so on.

 

And make no mistake, that's exactly what you're doing in post after post.

 

Again, every insult you paint against me applies directly to you. You are making the excuse that we sound like bullies. Regardless of what we sound like, we clearly aren't, as I disproved in my previous post.

[Max_Killjoy]

So, do we get rid of the infection event?

 

Solves the problem of Raktrolls, but has the negative of removing something fun for some players.

 

Make the vaccine 1 credit? Offer an opt out? Make only players that participate in the event venerable to the virus?

 

My suggestion -- as soon as the event starts, auto mail every single character a vaccination kit for free. Said kit would have unlimited "charges" and grant a permanent, persist-through-death immunity that only ends if the player voluntarily removes the buff.

[GalaxyStrong]

Uhhh I'm not sure what you guys are going on about but, I will take this opportunity to remind you guys that the Rakghoul virus is a great way to kill Gold Spammers on the Fleet. The bots aren't programmed to grab vaccine.

 

 

KILL THE GOLD SPAMMER BOT'S!!!!!!!

[Max_Killjoy]

Again, every insult you paint against me applies directly to you. You are making the excuse that we sound like bullies. Regardless of what we sound like, we clearly aren't, as I disproved in my previous post.

 

Keep telling yourself that... keep pretending that you're the one being wronged.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Max_Killjoy

[ArielaKnight]

Which other relics are cheap, easily attainable ? The ones from Alignment vedors ? Those require either light 5 or dark 5. That's a lot. How many toons have you gotten that high by lvl 50. Me ? Zero.

Are you really going through the hassle of finding a crafter and spend a crapton of creds to craft some level 50 relic ? Are you really going to grind 300 classic comms, at level 50, so you can have lvl 50 relics ?

Sure, there are "better" relics for lvl 50. But nowhere near as convenient as these. These relics are a one time thing, for the entire legcay. Any other relic will require extra work, extra creds, extra hassle every time for every character.

 

I have 2 level 55 and 1 level 50 and then 2 lower level.

Finding a crafter? Not too difficult in my guild as we have a master craftsman in the guild. She doesn't charge us anything to make items for us either-so spending a lot of credits nope.

Classic comms getting to 300 not that difficult if you have people to run missions with.

 

You claim it to be a hassle but I don't see a hassle if you have friends and guild to help.

[azudelphi]

Keep telling yourself that... keep telling yourself "Oh, he insulted me, he deserves whatever I do".

 

That's not what he said... he is saying any insult you dish out is equally applicable in return. Not that you deserve it...

 

Edit: Example, calling someone a bully who isn't a bully... kinda makes you a bully.

Edited October 29, 2014 by azudelphi

[wainot-keel]

This is a tough one, because I have been on both sides of the issue, and in my eyes both sides are right...and both are wrong.

 

To say it is bad for a player to force you to play their way is true, but it is also true to say that you will be effected by other players whether you like it or not in more aspects than simply this event. One can not insulate themselves from being effected by other players in a multiplayer game.

 

Not having an opt out, and getting infected against your will is like flagging a player for PVP against their will, but at the same time this can't be compared to PVP. Flagging you makes you venerable to attack, something you can't avoid in certain cases. In this case, you can. The Vaccine and relic absolutely prevent you from being infected.

 

One could say it is wrong to expect a player to inconvenience themselves, or be inconvenienced for the benefit of others, but then again the very basis of some forms of the game do in fact directly cause you to be the victim...and like this system you can avoid those aspects if you choose.

 

So, do we get rid of the infection event? Make the vaccine 1 credit? Offer an opt out? Make only players that participate in the event venerable to the virus?

 

I don't know. Considering it is rather easy to prevent infection, and rather difficult to infect someone, I'm not sure this is something that really qualifies as intrusive and unfair.

 

It's hard for me to decide either way, because I see the logic in both sides of the argument.

 

I do have one question....if you get infected and take the vaccine, does it cure the infection?

 

Can you imagine how awesome it would be if, for example, the PvP vendor sold a legacy relic that would make your toon absolutely incapable of being flagged for pvp in open world ?

I would love such a thing. The griefing in the Gree event would be a no-nevermind, for ever, for example....

 

I would choose to do some WZs so I could get a relic with such functionality. Unfortunately, no such option.

 

For the Rakghoul event, there is such option.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

Wow..everyone crying because they can't bother to buy a simple vaccine that gives 6 hours of protection......

 

Please get your facts right. The vaccine does not persist through death.

[Max_Killjoy]

That's not what he said... he is saying any insult you dish out is equally applicable in return. Not that you deserve it...

 

Still looking for where I've "insulted" him, unless maybe the observation of shared rationalizations -- "It's no big deal, we're just having fun, why are you so upset?" -- hits a little too close to home...

 

Edit: Example, calling someone a bully who isn't a bully... kinda makes you a bully.

 

Except... that I didn't.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Max_Killjoy

[ScarletBlaze]

 

I do have one question....if you get infected and take the vaccine, does it cure the infection?

 

Yes if you do it within a specific time line. It happened to me once and I pulled out my vaccine and was cured but it was almost immediately when I did that.

Edited October 29, 2014 by ScarletBlaze

[azudelphi]

Still looking for where I've "insulted" him, unless maybe the observation of shared rationalizations -- "It's no big deal, we're just having fun, why are you so upset?" -- hits a little too close to home...

 

Well, branding those who enjoy the event as "Raktroll" and having the mentality of bullies might be a tad insulting...

[azudelphi]

Still looking for where I've "insulted" him, unless maybe the observation of shared rationalizations -- "It's no big deal, we're just having fun, why are you so upset?" -- hits a little too close to home...

 

Except... that I didn't.

 

Right... just implying the shared mentality makes it better than coming out and saying it...

[LordArtemis]

Ok, so here is where I would fall on the issue.

 

Perhaps the price is a bit high. 2000 credits per is very low naturally, but 100 credits, or even 1 credit would absolutely make it a non-issue IMO.

 

Since the vaccine can cure the virus, even if you get infected you can still remove it.

 

You would have to get infected, then refuse to use a vaccine that costs 2000 credits to get rid of it. And then die 20 minutes later (if I am correct).

 

If that is an example of intrusion, I would have to say it seems like a stretch to me.

 

I find the spawning Rakghouls more intrusive than that.

 

Now, reducing the cost is probably a good idea. So is having it persist through death for our warzone friends.

Edited October 29, 2014 by LordArtemis

[azudelphi]

I find the spawning Rakghouls more intrusive than that.

 

... So is having it persist through death for our warzone friends.

 

I agree with these.

Edited October 29, 2014 by azudelphi

[Max_Killjoy]

Well, branding those who enjoy the event as "Raktroll" and having the mentality of bullies might be a tad insulting...

 

Those who enjoy inflicting the event on others, who stand around key points on fleet to ambush other players, who chase random other players who are clearly trying to avoid it... those would be the Raktrolls. Those who are willing to live and let live are not Raktrolls. Simple.

 

Right... just implying the shared mentality makes it better than coming out and saying it...

 

What else would you call a mentality that puts the onus on those being targeted to avoid being dragged into something they want no part of, instead of on those who could just as easily leave them alone but choose not to?

 

How else would you describe the mentality of "I don't care what that guy wants, I'm going to have my fun, and if he objects, that's his problem"?

[wainot-keel]

I have 2 level 55 and 1 level 50 and then 2 lower level.

Finding a crafter? Not too difficult in my guild as we have a master craftsman in the guild. She doesn't charge us anything to make items for us either-so spending a lot of credits nope.

Classic comms getting to 300 not that difficult if you have people to run missions with.

 

You claim it to be a hassle but I don't see a hassle if you have friends and guild to help.

 

Well, IMHO, spending any creds, any time of my own or some else's to get a couple of lvl 50 relics to go through bolstered Makeb is a complete waste. To each their own I guess.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

Those who enjoy inflicting the event on others, who stand around key points on fleet to ambush other players, who chase random other players who are clearly trying to avoid it... those would be the Raktrolls. Those who are willing to live and let live are not Raktrolls. Simple.

 

 

 

What else would you call a mentality that puts the onus on those being targeted to avoid being dragged into something they want no part of, instead of on those who could just as easily leave them alone but choose not to?

 

How else would you describe the mentality of "I don't care what that guy wants, I'm going to have my fun, and if he objects, that's his problem"?

 

Spot on.

 

The blame lies at BWs door for the one sided mechanics of this event, let me fight back and you can cough and splutter all you want to.

 

That said, all they are doing is pandering to a darker side of human nature, and indeed, one that sells.

Edited October 29, 2014 by ThorgrimLutgen

[azudelphi]

Those who enjoy inflicting the event on others, who stand around key points on fleet to ambush other players, who chase random other players who are clearly trying to avoid it... those would be the Raktrolls. Those who are willing to live and let live are not Raktrolls. Simple.

 

What else would you call a mentality that puts the onus on those being targeted to avoid being dragged into something they want no part of, instead of on those who could just as easily leave them alone but choose not to?

 

How else would you describe the mentality of "I don't care what that guy wants, I'm going to have my fun, and if he objects, that's his problem"?

 

There is implied consent by logging in that the event is active and you are part of it.

There is acknowledgement of consent by not having a vaccine.

 

It's not like it's a surprise the event is here.

 

I don't target a particular player to harm their experience. I doubt many do target individuals beyond who has a vaccine and who doesn't...

 

Why do you hate the infection so much anyways? How does it harm your experience? I am being serious. Other than it bursting your insulated bubble of no-player interaction, how does it harm you? I want specifics, not just "I don't like it"... if we're to be rational, convince me with reason. Because I don't see anything that is being inflicted other than a small 2k cost (or less if you just jump down a chasm on fleet).

Edited October 29, 2014 by azudelphi

[ThorgrimLutgen]

There is implied consent by logging in that the event is active and you are part of it.

There is acknowledgement of consent by not having a vaccine.... .

 

Utter crap, and you know it.

[LordArtemis]

I'm not trying to stand up for the pro infection people, but I see parallels.....like when I am drawn into a deadly battle by an NPC that catches me off guard, or I fall off of a platform, or get knocked off a bridge.

 

The entire world of SWTOR rises up to try and exterminate us. With unfair tactics and abilities I might add. Is it really wrong to face danger simply because it is a player and not an NPC? If it was an NPC that was infecting us, would it be ok then?

 

I am note an advocate for forcing playstyles on others (like forcing a PVP flag) but in this case this disruption can easily be avoided or fixed...I just don't understand why having a player do it would be different than having a NPC do the same.

I can't spend 2000 credits to shut off a PVP flag, even if it was tricked into it. That is forcing a playstyle on me. This really doesn't seem to qualify.

Edited October 29, 2014 by LordArtemis