Things Veteran Players Wish Newbs Knew

[Jadescythe]

Nowhere in my post is that even tangentially implied to be a good idea. Either you arent actually reading, or youre "reading" while thinking about all the things you want to say and consequently seeing everything you "read" in a context that will allow you to respond in the way you decided to before you even started.

 

Whichever it is, I dont really care.

 

You did say this:

 

The Scorecard is not objectively correct. One of the more common mistakes I see people make is taking the information off the scorecard at face value. Just because you are higher up the table on the default ordering than someone else does not mean that you did better than them or had a bigger effect. Occasionally, it can be a direct indication that you did worse. Quite often its totally meaningless and has no bearing on anything at all. There are so many things that the score card does not track that have enormous import in determining a win or a loss. There is also no way for the card to directly show the context that resulted in the numbers the score card displays.

 

And honestly, if your contributions don't show up on the scoreboard, 99% of the time you didn't do anything in the match.

[azudelphi]

You did say this:

 

And honestly, if your contributions don't show up on the scoreboard, 99% of the time you didn't do anything in the match.

 

Well, take for example a player that protects, defends, prevents last second caps of the Pylon in Ancient Hypergate. Their damage outputs will objectively be lower, but it's a necessary task for success in that Warzone.

[Dras_Keto]

That little bit youre focusing on and taking out of context refers directly to the order in which youre listed on the default view of the scorecard at the end of the match.

 

Reading comprehension, people. Its not hard.

[Zoom_VI]

Well, take for example a player that protects, defends, prevents last second caps of the Pylon in Ancient Hypergate. Their damage outputs will objectively be lower, but it's a necessary task for success in that Warzone.

 

They should still be getting objective points for that, which is what I alluded to with my "with respect to objective points" comment.

 

Now of course there are a number of clutch plays that might win a match and not show up on the scoreboard. however player's that cannot pull decent numbers are unlikely to have the awareness and skill to recognize and execute such a play outside of sheer coincidence and dumb luck.

[Max_Killjoy]

The game was not created with the "professional gamer" in mind.

 

Don't let the "pros" hear you say that, you'll get blackballed.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Max_Killjoy

[Jadescythe]

That little bit youre focusing on and taking out of context refers directly to the order in which youre listed on the default view of the scorecard at the end of the match.

 

Reading comprehension, people. Its not hard.

 

There are so many things that the score card does not track that have enormous import in determining a win or a loss.

 

I realize that scoreboard sorting was part of the quote as well. I'm referring the specific part I quoted here. If you are protecting a node, that will show on the scoreboard. It's not that every possible thing you can do will reflect on the scoreboard, but doing 1 thing (like stopping a cap) during the entirety of the game doesn't mean you did well.

 

If you aren't close to the top people in damage, protection, and/or healing you're doing it wrong, taking objectives into account (which are also on the scoreboard) if you were node guarding or something similar. All the "little things" that don't show up on the scoreboard don't matter if you aren't doing what does show up. I'm glad you can figure out the best time to stop doing DPS and cap the node, but if you can't do the DPS to create the opportunity, you're worthless.

[Dras_Keto]

#3: LOL at the gear requirements listed. Buddy of mine and I DUO the hardmodes with Companions and sub 148 gear. The game was not created with the "professional gamer" in mind.

 

Lets assume for a second that youre telling the truth. It should be possible, especially if its a tank and healer with dps companions. What is the main, deciding factor in your ability to do that? Player skill, knowledge, and familiarity.

 

If this is someones first mmo, its not likely they have much of any of those yet. This thread isnt about "So, if youre totally awesome and could top DPS chats on an old, launch madness assassin, here is what you can get away with..."

[Icebergy]

On Gearing:

 

Knights and Warriors use strength.

Consulars and Inquisitors use Willpower.

Agents and Smugglers use Cunning.

Troopers and Hunters use Aim.

 

If you are using any other primary stat, you are doing it wrong. Also don't roll need on gear that has the other stats. If you want it for your companion, ask first.

[Dras_Keto]

On Gearing:

 

Knights and Warriors use strength.

Consulars and Inquisitors use Willpower.

Agents and Smugglers use Cunning.

Troopers and Hunters use Aim.

 

If you are using any other primary stat, you are doing it wrong. Also don't roll need on gear that has the other stats. If you want it for your companion, ask first.

 

Thats too depressing to put in there. If you cant even pick up on that, youll never find this thread anyway.

[ScarletBlaze]

On Gearing:

 

Knights and Warriors use strength.

Consulars and Inquisitors use Willpower.

Agents and Smugglers use Cunning.

Troopers and Hunters use Aim.

 

If you are using any other primary stat, you are doing it wrong. Also don't roll need on gear that has the other stats. If you want it for your companion, ask first.

 

Try explaining that to those that don't listen. One person last week in DK kept arguing inquisitors use strength and no matter how many people told him he was wrong he ignored them when finally I said go ahead and use it but don't expect to get in groups especially end games with the wrong stats and I left.

Edited October 23, 2014 by ScarletBlaze

[Gleneagle]

Try explaining that to those that don't listen. One person last week in DK kept arguing inquisitors use strength and no matter how many people told him he was wrong he ignored them when finally I said go ahead and use it but don't expect to get in groups especially end games with the wrong stats and I left.

<doubletake> Wait... would you run that by one more time? If inquisitors don't use willpower then what do they use?

 

~~edit~~ ah, I see you editied that to strength. I should have waited.

 

p.p.s. Note to self: I have discovered that quotations will reflect corrections to the original post on these boards...

Edited October 23, 2014 by Gleneagle

[Feneckus]

IIf you are protecting a node, that will show on the scoreboard.

 

Not always. Actually, if you want to guard a node, it's MUCH better to be outside the range where you get points for defending.

 

The ones getting points by standing right beside the objective are just fools begging for a stealth cap. Another way for the scoreboard to lie.

 

If you aren't close to the top people in damage, protection, and/or healing you're doing it wrong, taking objectives into account (which are also on the scoreboard)

 

Wrong. Let's say I'm on Civil War. We have east, the enemy has west and everyone is fighting for South. If I go west and force a 1vs3 for quite a while, either through repeated stealth CCs or by surviving for an unusual amount of time (pretty easy for an operative healer), then I made capping South so much easier for my team. I'll barely get any damage/heals, I won't get any objective points, but I was an asset to my team. Much more than the guy tab dotting everything in sight in the middle.

 

Also quite common in Huttball. 3-4 people will follow my operative healer, so I just stay the hell away from the ball. Then the ball carrier on my team has a much easier time. And the other team's feels quite lonely.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Feneckus

[KillerCreedo]

Best thread evar!!!

[Jadescythe]

Not always. Actually, if you want to guard a node, it's MUCH better to be outside the range where you get points for defending.

 

The ones getting points by standing right beside the objective are just fools begging for a stealth cap. Another way for the scoreboard to lie.

 

 

 

Wrong. Let's say I'm on Civil War. We have east, the enemy has west and everyone is fighting for South. If I go west and force a 1vs3 for quite a while, either through repeated stealth CCs or by surviving for an unusual amount of time (pretty easy for an operative healer), then I made capping South so much easier for my team. I'll barely get any damage/heals, I won't get any objective points, but I was an asset to my team. Much more than the guy tab dotting everything in sight in the middle.

 

Also quite common in Huttball. 3-4 people will follow my operative healer, so I just stay the hell away from the ball. Then the ball carrier on my team has a much easier time. And the other team's feels quite lonely.

 

You have to be in range to stop caps, so you'll be getting defender points without humping the node.

 

If you are solo attacking their node, you're handicapping your own team. If they send 3 people to their node to stop 1, that isn't genius on your part, it's terrible on theirs. By math, if you each have 1 defender and you attack their node, them sending one person to clean you up leaves an even fight at mid, not your team ahead. So you did nothing unless they don't respond and you win the 1v1, which would mean you don't suck and you would have good stats. The guy tab dotting in mid/south is keeping pressure on healers by dealing constant damage to everyone on the opposing team. High scoreboard numbers don't guarantee you did everything right, but low scoreboard numbers do guarantee you did something wrong (short of node guarding as mentioned previously).

 

Why are we playing to the lowest common denominator? LIke, who randomly follows around an op healer nowhere near the ball with 2-3 friends? That's just ****** play on the enemy's part, not a great play by you.

[Feneckus]

The guy tab dotting in mid/south is keeping pressure on healers by dealing constant damage to everyone on the opposing team.

 

That puts almost no pressure at all on healers. All that damage is meaningless. Tab dotting is easily countered with Kotlo Probes/Kolto Shells/AOE healing.

 

You know what really puts pressure on a healer ? CC + burst damage.

 

And the examples I gave, of course I'm not saying it happens every game. I was just giving an example of how it's possible contribute significantly to the win while having a lousy performance on the scoreboard.

[Gleneagle]

Or BW could have a helpful Learn Your Class type tutorial/mission to help people learn. Coruscant/Kaas would be great worlds to place such a mission.

That sounds like a good idea as long as BW has the same notion as the players as to how the classes 'should' be played. If they don't have the same idea can you imagine all the forum drama that would ensue?

[Dras_Keto]

That sounds like a good idea as long as BW has the same notion as the players as to how the classes 'should' be played. If they don't have the same idea can you imagine all the forum drama that would ensue?

 

[BigDumbViking]

There is definitely some bad info in there.

 

1. Deception sins should certainly be using crushing darkness, at least in PVP. The force to damage ratio is too good to ignore.

 

2. As long as you bolster to over 1900, MH/OH are not a priority over relics->4 piece bonus->Implant/Earpiece.... all of which have a higher stat balances and/or bonus procs that make them far better than the bolstered alternatives.

[Jadescythe]

That puts almost no pressure at all on healers. All that damage is meaningless. Tab dotting is easily countered with Kotlo Probes/Kolto Shells/AOE healing.

 

You know what really puts pressure on a healer ? CC + burst damage.

 

And the examples I gave, of course I'm not saying it happens every game. I was just giving an example of how it's possible contribute significantly to the win while having a lousy performance on the scoreboard.

 

But your examples didn't prove anything. Solo attacking nodes only works if you can win the 1v1 AND the other team doesn't respond. Running off on your own in Huttball only works if the enemy chases you. These strategies rely on the other team being bad. The possibility of these working is so low, you aren't contributing anything. These are last ditch efforts if you are behind, like trying to solo a node when they have 2 in the hopes they don't respond or overrotate. It's not a go-to strategy that should be rewarded regularly, it just leaves your team undermanned 95% of the time.

[bdatt]

I only read the first couple sections, but I would never point a new player to this thread. I suggest you delete and apologize to the community.

 

Just comments like Never ever guard healer and non-balance shadows should take mind crush completely off their bar, would not help a new player become an advanced player. I didn't get much farther.

 

Good thread idea, poor execution. Better to write up a list of basics, vs stating in absolutes things that aren't absolute. Maybe you get into something useful later, but it wasn't worth the read.

Edited October 23, 2014 by bdatt

[Zoom_VI]

That puts almost no pressure at all on healers. All that damage is meaningless. Tab dotting is easily countered with Kotlo Probes/Kolto Shells/AOE healing.

 

Depends, burst isn't everything in PvP. If your DPS output on their team exceeds the EHPS of the enemies healer(s) then people will die, regardless of whether that DPS is "bursty" or not. Its called a pressure strat.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[UltimateKrucible]

Good thread, and thanks for posting.

 

One thing jumps out though - in PvP Tanks should ALWAYS guard the healer. Always. A (good) tank/guarded healer combo guarding a node is practically invulnerable unless against 3-4 opponents.

 

Also, there is more cheating than you admit.

[Dras_Keto]

I only read the first couple sections, but I would never point a new player to this thread. I suggest you delete and apologize to the community.

 

LOL. I sowwy ur jimmies got rustled.

 

Actually though, Im not. But we both knew that already.

 

Good thread, and thanks for posting.

 

One thing jumps out though - in PvP Tanks should ALWAYS guard the healer. Always. A (good) tank/guarded healer combo guarding a node is practically invulnerable unless against 3-4 opponents.

 

Also, there is more cheating than you admit.

 

Not exactly, Tanks should guard the person being focused in pvp, whoever that is. The thing that separates a good pvp tank from a bad one is the ability to guard swap effectively to reduce incoming damage.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Dras_Keto

[bdatt]

There is definitely some bad info in there.

 

1. Deception sins should certainly be using crushing darkness, at least in PVP. The force to damage ratio is too good to ignore.

 

PvE too. Some of these are antiquated but demonstrate the advanced utility of getting the dot up during a dps downtime.

- Soa final phase

- EC kephess on walker

- dread guards (as tank on heirad while keeping cyphus in safe place)

- Op IX, cores if applicable and droid boss

- Brontes final

- Calphayus final

[UltimateKrucible]

 

Not exactly, Tanks should guard the person being focused in pvp, whoever that is. The thing that separates a good pvp tank from a bad one is the ability to guard swap effectively to reduce incoming damage.

 

Ah, but the healer should always be focussed, no?