Things Veteran Players Wish Newbs Knew

[TUXs]

Yes and no.

 

With a parser, you can train and optimize your threat per second on a combat dummy.

 

You can't however learn mechanics from a dummy.

 

Yeah, like always have your back to the group, boss facing them, so they can see what you're doing...right?

[LyraineAlei]

In game tutorial on how to tank!

You can't tank a target dummy...

 

But you can tank against dumb NPCs. Which should be part of a tutorial on how to tank.

[azudelphi]

Yeah, like always have your back to the group, boss facing them, so they can see what you're doing...right?

 

My tank doesn't wear the slave outfit just so the group can see the boss's rear...

 

Edit: Kidding on outfit and tanking style... agreed, pointing the boss to the raid is the worst (outside Nefra NiM)

Edited November 12, 2014 by azudelphi

[Dras_Keto]

A: A lot of how a tank's "rotation" works depends on being attacked. Procs that occur when you shield or defend an attack, etc. Makes it difficult to really use a target dummy, itd have to be an NPC capable of fighting back.

 

B:

If you have not seen Interstellar in theaters, drop what you are doing and go see it. Right now! If that means you have to drive 50 miles to find a theater that is still showing it at this time of night, its freaking worth it.

 

Basically: HOLY CRAP.

[Max_Killjoy]

Let me guess, one of those movies that "has to be seen in the theater"?

[Max_Killjoy]

I know they give an overview of what the advanced classes are like when you are picking your class. It's a little less than the blurb we get when we pick our AC in-game, since we don't get to look at the skill trees.

 

I'm thinking of much more detail, with commentary on how you'll need to fight with the class, such as a nicer way of saying "if you play <PT or Vanguard or Scoundrel or Operative>, that pretty blaster is an ornament" (hyperbole there on my part, but still).

[LyraineAlei]

I'm thinking of much more detail, with commentary on how you'll need to fight with the class, such as a nicer way of saying "if you play <PT or Vanguard or Scoundrel or Operative>, that pretty blaster is an ornament" (hyperbole there on my part, but still).

 

That would be totally awesome to see in game. They could just add it into the blurb available.

[Halinalle]

Yeah, like always have your back to the group, boss facing them, so they can see what you're doing...right?

 

Did you know?

Last boss in flashpoint Hammer Station teaches you to turn boss away from group and stand in one specific spot.

 

A: A lot of how a tank's "rotation" works depends on being attacked. Procs that occur when you shield or defend an attack, etc. Makes it difficult to really use a target dummy, itd have to be an NPC capable of fighting back.

 

Not to even mention my least favorite:

Project -> "Nice, 3 stacks of Harnessed Shadows" -> TK Throw -> intterrupt/knockback after first tick.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Halinalle

[Lord_of_Mu]

Did you know?

Last boss in flashpoint Hammer Station teaches you to turn boss away from group and stand in one specific spot.

 

You can get fancy and side step the channel to avoid taking damage. But it's always a good idea to move back in before the channel ends. Had the odd time where I went over the ledge.

 

 

 

Not to even mention my least favorite:

Project -> "Nice, 3 stacks of Harnessed Shadows" -> TK Throw -> intterrupt/knockback after first tick.

 

Tonight on who wants to play a conditional tanking class! Condition (A) has been met, do you use the correct ability now and face an immediate knock back or wait till the next pack? Tune in and find out!

 

I'm actually a lot more forgiving on shadows, now that I have one. But I can also tell when the tank has no idea what they're doing. Boy is it rough.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Lord_of_Mu

[Halinalle]

Tonight on who wants to play a conditional tanking class! Condition (A) has been met, do you use the correct ability now and face an immediate knock back or wait till the next pack? Tune in and find out!

 

What I'm doing wrong?

Why Zaoron is nothing?

Why all the champions in H2 area in Section X are nothing to my undergeared Shadow when way overgeared Sorcerers (~40k hp) need to group up to defeat them?

Edited November 13, 2014 by Halinalle

[BuriDogshin]

Why all the champions in H2 area in Section X are nothing to my undergeared Shadow when way overgeared Sorcerers need to group up to defeat them?

A competent, well-geared 55 doesn't need to group up to do any part of Imp-side Section X except Dreadtooth and the H4 AC (and then only because of the mechanics), but grouping up makes it go faster.

[Halinalle]

A competent, well-geared 55 doesn't need to group up to do any part of Imp-side Section X except Dreadtooth and the H4 AC (and then only because of the mechanics), but grouping up makes it go faster.

 

That's exactly what I thought when I saw three of them killing one of the big champions. Talk about overkill.

[BuriDogshin]

That's exactly what I thought when I saw three of them killing one of the big champions. Talk about overkill.

Overkill is good - if something needs to be dead, it cannot be too dead or dead to fast --

except, of course, when the mechanics of a fight are bugged and killing the mobs too fast hoses things up. I've seen that happen at least once on each of Operator 9, The Vigilant, and Titan 6.

[Dras_Keto]

Let me guess, one of those movies that "has to be seen in the theater"?

 

I wouldnt say has to, but the big screen definitely doesnt hurt. Its not a Michael Bay movie where the only parts of it worth seeing are the special effects, but you want to be able to see and hear everything. Granted its very heavy sci-fi so it may not be everyone's cup of tea but I have not been this impressed .. frankly I dont remember ever being this impressed. This was an out of the park homer.

 

Not to even mention my least favorite:

Project -> "Nice, 3 stacks of Harnessed Shadows" -> TK Throw -> intterrupt/knockback after first tick.

 

Thats actually not that bad. Since you are supposed to be starting the fight from stealth anyway (which gives you all four stacks of harnessed darkness immediately) you only need the initial tick of force lightning to refresh the duration. Its kind of annoying on the force regen but its doable. I think KeyboardNinja has a much more in depth post about it on the Shadow/Assassin sub-forum.

 

I'm thinking of much more detail, with commentary on how you'll need to fight with the class, such as a nicer way of saying "if you play <PT or Vanguard or Scoundrel or Operative>, that pretty blaster is an ornament" (hyperbole there on my part, but still).

 

Its a good idea for sure, but just like the tutorials that answer all kinds of questions before they ever come up, people will just close out/click through it. Thats why I like the idea of a training quest a bit better. Its just a bit silly because at level 10, even with the Discipline system, people still wont have very much of their class identity yet.

[Halinalle]

(which gives you all four stacks of harnessed darkness immediately)

 

Shadow Protection/Dark Protection

But then of course

Healer/Marauder: "Don't pull from stealth. It only slows things down."

 

you only need the initial tick of force lightning to refresh the duration.

 

True, but that's not possible always. Remember that "no 3 stacks of Harnessed Shadows/Harnessed Darkness, no Shadow Protection/Dark Protection from TKT/FL".

Edited November 13, 2014 by Halinalle

[Kourage]

But you can tank against dumb NPCs. Which should be part of a tutorial on how to tank.

 

They just need to have a tutorial like a lot of single player games have. Have the player taunt a certain NPC, aoe them all, tank without breaking a cc, etc...

[Halinalle]

They just need to have a tutorial like a lot of single player games have. Have the player taunt a certain NPC, aoe them all, tank without breaking a cc, etc...

 

No. Tutorials. Please.

 

Blood Dragon has by far the best tutorial and even that gets annoying.

Current tutorial system in SWTOR is good enough.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Halinalle

[LyraineAlei]

They just need to have a tutorial like a lot of single player games have. Have the player taunt a certain NPC, aoe them all, tank without breaking a cc, etc...

 

That would be really nice IMO, or a tutorial quest since most people just turn off tutorials and then go "But I can pew-pew face roll my way through 1-55 storyline."

[Dras_Keto]

True, but that's not possible always. Remember that "no 3 stacks of Harnessed Shadows/Harnessed Darkness, no Shadow Protection/Dark Protection from TKT/FL".

 

What exactly is going to prevent you from getting the three stacks you need?

 

Even if the boss is immune to damage (such as Calphayus in his final phase) its the ability activation that gives the buff, not doing damage (you just wont build the DR buff since Force lightning doesnt do damage). Theres just no way youd wont be able to generate stacks.

[MillionsKNives]

What exactly is going to prevent you from getting the three stacks you need?

 

Even if the boss is immune to damage (such as Calphayus in his final phase) its the ability activation that gives the buff, not doing damage (you just wont build the DR buff since Force lightning doesnt do damage). Theres just no way youd wont be able to generate stacks.

 

I still think that's interesting given that they had a patch note a while back saying that force lightning would still generate stacks even if it does no damage.

[Lord_of_Mu]

Just a fun little tip. I'm sure everyone has done Czerka labs a great many times by now. There are some fun little tricks you can use on the red mobs to greatly reduce the damage everyone tanks. These fun tricks being CC, stuns and delaying the release of a red mob from a tank.

 

During trash packs you can just CC / stun the red mobs but during the boss you can leave a red mob in its tank until the blue mob is ready to eat it. Cuts down a lot of unnecessary damage.

 

Only saying this because I've had pugs freak out when I don't release a red immediately after releasing and attacking a blue.

[Dras_Keto]

busy, etc., that update is in the works though

[BobFredJohn]

Rather than tutorials why not just make class quests harder.

 

Take a look at the boss at the top of the tower on oricon. Once you have full rep the only reason for going there is to get 156. Sub 156 that boss cannot be beaten with pew-pew-pew. If you want to beat it you need to interrupt him, you need to pop your DCD's on the right abilities he uses, need to prioritise the stun breaks and so on.

 

Make the elites at the end of every class quest like the guy at the top of the tower in oricon. Granted the noobs will just ask their guild for help and get carried through by some over-geared/over-leveled guild mate. But at least it prevents being able to do class quests while not even looking at the screen (I just remember my rotation as muscle memory and watch the telly behind me, and still win the fight).

Edited November 16, 2014 by BobFredJohn

[Lord_of_Mu]

Because well as you said, people who can't figure out how to kill the mob would either get help from a guild mate / friend, or they would come to the forums and complain that the encounter is too hard.

 

Just for an example. The Bothrium Beast gives a lot of people trouble, and it's only because they can't figure out how to interrupt a single ability. Imagine if they were forced to figure out how to collect mobs with out using taunts, or aoe tank with out spamming aoe abilities.

 

Granted, no one handicaps themselves in such ways when playing the game but you get the idea. Also, don't forget the solo, we play the game the way we like crowd. They sure won't like anyone making them play in a way other than the way they are accustom to.

 

Creating guides and tutorials are a great way to go but it's still on the player to bother reading them.

 

You can lead a person to knowledge but you can't make them learn. Kind of like Horses and water..

[Dras_Keto]

Talking about them making alterations like that to the game is at best, wishful thinking. Bioware(EA) has already made the call to cater to the lowest common denominator in most areas of the game. You open up a larger market doing that, and can get by with less in the development factor/

 

But while we are on the subject, I think that having more bosses like the daily mini bosses (not the heroic champs those are just annoying, not "hard") from Oricon would be a benefit. Especially if you make the instances allow only that person in there. Bioware already designed the story to be played by a single person. Theres not one single shred of interaction for extraneous group members when in a story quest. You dont even appear in the cutscenes as a mute figure (at least as far as I can remember).

 

Still though, its doubtful stuff like that would help much. Knowing how to do a decent enough "rotation" because you were forced to learn to get past certain class quest barriers is one thing, but understanding how to use it in the context of a group is another.

 

What might work is some sort of official "mentoring" system. People who volunteer to lead runs. Maybe even through a special Group Finder category. But then that creates a whole host of other problems. Who decides who can "mentor," what happens when you have mentors who either have NO clue what they are doing or who deliberately give the wrong info, etc.

 

Ultimately, I think they only thing we can do is exactly what we are now. If people are doing something wrong, tell them. If they arent willing to listen, kick them out of the group if possible, if not (such as them having a guildmate who will take their side even if they know better) cut your losses and leave. If that happens to them enough, maybe eventually they will figure out whats going on.