Ratajack Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 That's the whole point. It's a completely extraneous game mechanic. One, I might add, that was programed and designed poorly. Forcing those that want them to do it multiple times (literally dozens for some) is superfluity for the sake of it. Even if the platforming was consistently predictable and accessible to most, it would still be a waste of time. But it is neither of those things. The rewards no longer offset the effort. They do not break the game in anyway and people still have to get them once. To any reasonable person, completely dismissing the idea comes off as total obstinacy. Though I admit I find people who can make false anagoges the same time as a false equivalencies to be rather charming. If you do not feel the stat bonuses are worth the effort, then don't do the datacrons. If you want the stat bonuses for a particular character, then find the datacrons with that character. Don't expect to get the stat bonuses without doing what is required to gain those bonuses, though. To any reasonable person, expecting to get the reward while refusing to do what is required to obtain that reward comes off as total self entitlement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphasgimaone Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 No. 4/5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joneseric Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) I have a simple solution that both makes the Datacrons easier to get without giving them away. Implement 2 requirements for Legacy Datacrons: 1) Require that someone have the Datacron Master Legacy Title. 2) Require that the player finish the planet quest line for the the Planet that the Datacrons are located on. This would allow people who have already gotten that Datacrons on a planet to get them without all of the platforming but still require an investment of time. This would also give people an extra reason to do the planet quests, that most people I know ingame skip. Edited October 13, 2014 by joneseric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirana Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) That's the whole point. It's a completely extraneous game mechanic. One, I might add, that was programed and designed poorly. Forcing those that want them to do it multiple times (literally dozens for some) is superfluity for the sake of it. Even if the platforming was consistently predictable and accessible to most, it would still be a waste of time. But it is neither of those things. The rewards no longer offset the effort. They do not break the game in anyway and people still have to get them once. To any reasonable person, completely dismissing the idea comes off as total obstinacy. Though I admit I find people who can make false anagoges the same time as a false equivalencies to be rather charming. No one is forcing anyone to to collect them. And if the effort isn't worth the reward, again, don't collect them. This has nothing to do with being stubborn, more so, lazy on your part. This is a mini-game that should stay intact. Edited October 20, 2014 by Pirana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocard Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) moved below... Edited October 13, 2014 by gocard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I have a simple solution that both makes the Datacrons easier to get without giving them away. Implement 2 requirements For Legacy Datacrons: 1) Require that someone have the Datacron Master Legacy Title. 2) Require that the player finish the planet quest line for the the Planet that the Datacrons are located on. This would allow people who have already gotten that Datacrons on a planet to get them without all of the platforming but still require an investment of time. The simple solution is to leave them exactly as they are. This is what the devs have chosen to do. If you want those bonuses for a specific character, you will have to find the datacrons on that character. It makes no difference if you've found them on 10 other characters. The devs have decided to leave the stat bonuses in the "have to be earned per character" category. IMO, this is exactly where those stat bonuses belong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joneseric Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The simple solution is to leave them exactly as they are. This is what the devs have chosen to do. If you want those bonuses for a specific character, you will have to find the datacrons on that character. It makes no difference if you've found them on 10 other characters. The devs have decided to leave the stat bonuses in the "have to be earned per character" category. IMO, this is exactly where those stat bonuses belong. I disagree with your premise. I believe they should be legacy wide and you will not convince me otherwise. I have said it since launch. If you disagree that is fine, but I have postulated my idea for reform of this monstrous time sink in my previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxtes Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The devs have decided to leave the stat bonuses in the "have to be earned per character" category. IMO, this is exactly where those stat bonuses belong. But why leave it half way if they wont allow Datacrons why allow legacy armor? You will only be playing one character at a time should not the gear you use also be "earned per character". I am making this post on the assumption that you are for legacy gear. If by chance you are against it and do not use them i salute you for your resolve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocard Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) The simple solution is to leave them exactly as they are. This is what the devs have chosen to do. If you want those bonuses for a specific character, you will have to find the datacrons on that character. It makes no difference if you've found them on 10 other characters. The devs have decided to leave the stat bonuses in the "have to be earned per character" category. IMO, this is exactly where those stat bonuses belong. Does this mean that anything that is not currently in the game, the devs have decided they will never implement? You seem to equate "not doing something" as an indication that someone is against an idea. It really isn't. I work as a product manager at a tech company. I don't do good ideas all the time because there are higher priorities. It doesn't mean that I am against those ideas. It just means that my team hasn't gotten to them yet. As a player base, shouldn't we be advocating what things we'd like the devs to prioritize? They are building the game for us. We are the user base. The fact that this request repeatedly comes up may be an indication that there is popular support behind it (I'm not saying it's definitive, mind you). And while you may feel that squeaky wheels are annoying, there's a reason they get the grease (I'm guessing it's also the reason you and branmakmuffin are so squeaky in your opposition). Edited October 13, 2014 by gocard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocard Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) Again, you ignore that fact that there is only ONE set of mods that is sent between characters. Legacy gear does NOT magically produce an identical set of mods for each and very character a player has, present and future. The player "earned" a single set of mods. He can do whatever he wishes with that SINGLE set of mods. That is not the same thing as being handed an identical set of mods for each and every character he has, present and future. There is still only ONE set of mods that was "earned", no matter how many characters that player has to which he chooses to send that set of mods. It still is effectively boosting all chars that can use it. When was the last time you logged on to multiple chars at the same time? As a compromise, would you be ok with legacy datacron stats being applied to only one character at a time, but can be xfered between them? Edited October 13, 2014 by gocard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Does this mean that anything that is not currently in the game, the devs have decided they will never implement? You seem to equate "not doing something" as an indication that someone is against an idea. It really isn't. I work as a product manager at a tech company. I don't do good ideas all the time because there are higher priorities. It doesn't mean that I am against those ideas. It just means that my team hasn't gotten to them yet. I base my statement that the devs have decided to leave those datacron bonuses in the "have to be earned per character" category on the fact that the devs stated in the podcast that there would be no legacy datacrons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocard Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) I base my statement that the devs have decided to leave those datacron bonuses in the "have to be earned per character" category on the fact that the devs stated in the podcast that there would be no legacy datacrons. I didn't hear the podcast. Did they say that legacy datacrons wouldn't be included in the expansion? Or did they say, that legacy datacrons is not something they plan to implement in the future? Edited October 14, 2014 by gocard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xillean Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 People are certainly... spirited about this topic. I will say that I would be more then happy to simply have them easier to obtain once you've done it the original way on a single toon (well two if you count having to do the other factions for the title) if I have to do it multiple times that's fine I had fun the first time I did them on my Sage. I would just like it to be looked at, some of those jumps are pretty crazy. Still I have to admit the fact we can do them at all successfully probably means it doesn't need to be changed and is working as intended by the devs. I dont think it hurts to ask for changes but going by recent podcasts and such, like others its pretty clear whether they want to do anything with them or not they cant/wont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 First, I would suggest that you listen to the podcast and then make the determination for yourself as to whether or not this is "secondhand" information or "straight from the horse's mouth". Second, players can still "whine and complain" all they want, but so can that 3 year old who's Mommy said "no, he can't have another cookie". That three year old can throw a tantrum and throw himself on the floor, banging his fists if he chooses. Maybe Mommy will give him that cookie to "shut him up" and maybe Mommy will just let him cry until he realizes that he won't be getting that cookie. Maybe Mommy will give him a cookie later. After all, Mommy can change her mind at any time. IMO, though, the three old that accepts "no" for an answer will often find that he gets that cookie sooner than the one who throws a tantrum. you seem to be the one throwing the tantrum and calling people names. maybe your mommy could have taught you a lesson in self control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) deleted due to incorrect information Edited October 14, 2014 by ivanhedgehog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxtes Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 What's next? "I have geared one character in full 186, so any new character I create should start with a complete set of 186."? By this i take you do not use legacy armor in any form other than for the appearance sake. It lets you do it quite easily not 186 mods, i mean never done NiM ops so cannot transfer 186 mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banegio Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Guildship summon has already made it easier. Can be seen as another opportunity for a guild/group event. Monthly datacron event... experienced players can lead new players for datacrons tour. Players having trouble jumping etc. can be teleported by the guildship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxtes Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Guildship summon has already made it easier. Can be seen as another opportunity for a guild/group event. Monthly datacron event... experienced players can lead new players for datacrons tour. Players having trouble jumping etc. can be teleported by the guildship. Think they made it so guild ship summon will not work for the +10 datacron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torvai Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Think they made it so guild ship summon will not work for the +10 datacron. One of our guildmembers has a sage standing up there. Basically only open upt the door, activate the bridge with 4 people and getting pulled up Anyway I don't want a global unlock for the stat bonuses from the crons. Or that once you found one, for example +4 aim, all of your toons get +4 aim. What I personally would like, and I'll just quote myself from another thread regarding this topic: What I would like is a character perk, not a global unlock. This perk would be only obtainable when you got all datacrons at least once, with other restrictions set to it, like a certain character level. Since i agree with you that it would be to much if you could get it early on in game on a new toon. And you would have to pay for it on every character you want to have it. Basically like the HK unlock. So you have the choice to grind them all again for that character like you do now, or pay to save the time on it. Or don't get it at all. The restrictions set to it would be debatable. And imho it should cost a small fortune. And another quote on the same topic: Things like that are done throughout the gaming industry. Give people the choice to either "grind and save money" or "pay and save time". Heck, it has been done even in swtor. Look at HK. You have to grind him once, and on other toons you get the choice to not get him at all, do it again or just pay for it and be done. It's not that it is p2w, since you can get them anyway. It's rather a pay to save time that is then actually spent playing and not jumping around. Or standing like dumb on this damned baloon for 45 mins, where you can't even go afk. And yet again, there are stat boni you can get for all characters, totaling to 1% of crit, surge and accuracy, more healing received and a tad more hp by maxing out affection(yeah, you probably all know this ). And you CAN ACTUALLY BUY them in the form of companion gifts. Nobodys complaining about this eiither. Something like this should be rather easy to implement in comparison to other things. The main problem I see is ensuring that you wouldn't pay for that perk, get all the bonuses and then grind the crons all again, basically doubling the stat boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I didn't hear the podcast. Did they say that legacy datacrons wouldn't be included in the expansion? Or did they say, that legacy datacrons is not something they plan to implement in the future? Had you actually read the whole thread instead of possibly a few posts or pages at the end, you would have seen the link to the podcast I posted and at least one other post about that podcast. But here it is again: People might want to check out this thread, particularly the second post: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=768973 Not sure I got that correctly but crystals wont' go farther +41 (for now).Faction change, if ever, will be a paid feature.For PVP was wondering about a single cluster from what he told (better than cross server queues).They are spending time on PvP balance so the why no new WZ this year.GSF will add stuff but seems no new ships nor maps (incentives?).Datacron no legacy wide.Mute companions: maybe.Bonus sets from operations only as incentive to do them. **And thanks OP That would seem to be the latest word from the devs on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 All this is a moot point if a recent podcast is to be believed. Supposedly Charles Boyd said he wants legacy datacrons too if they could do it, which implies they looked at it and can't do it. I do see a range of improvements possible. One being have an actual list that tells you which you have and which you dont. not an obscure buggy codex list that makes you go to 3rd party websites to get any possibility of decoding it. this game as a whole is horribly documented, and the devs should be shot for leaving it up to dulphy and company to let players find out how anything works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I do see a range of improvements possible. One being have an actual list that tells you which you have and which you dont. not an obscure buggy codex list that makes you go to 3rd party websites to get any possibility of decoding it. this game as a whole is horribly documented, and the devs should be shot for leaving it up to dulphy and company to let players find out how anything works. A legacy codex for datacrons with a way to see which characters have found each of the datacrons would be a definite improvement, I agree. It would also be nice to be able to see which datacrons the character you are playing has found. I do not know how difficult the coding for such a legacy codex would be, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 One affects main stats and the other affects secondary stats? The devs have decided that one will not happen, and the other is already in place? You realize that the legacy companions bonuses give a bigger dps/hps/tps increase than the datacrons do right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 A legacy codex for datacrons with a way to see which characters have found each of the datacrons would be a definite improvement, I agree. It would also be nice to be able to see which datacrons the character you are playing has found. I do not know how difficult the coding for such a legacy codex would be, though. up until now we have been arguing all or nothing...Maybe we can push for some improvements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 up until now we have been arguing all or nothing...Maybe we can push for some improvements? Honesty is a concept which you would be well advised to consider, IMO. Some have argued for it all, stat bonuses on each and every character, present and future, for finding the datacrons on only ONE character. I, and others, have all along supported a legacy codex for datacrons. It is the stat bonuses that we object to being legacy wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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