Can we finally make Datacrons legacy-wide in the new xpac?

[Karidil]

Actually, you are getting "paid" for finding those datacrons. You might not be getting "paid" in cash or credits, but you ARE getting "paid" with stat bonuses. So there IS value add work, and legacy datacrons would be value add work removed since you would be getting "paid" multiple times with stat bonuses for something you did only ONCE.

 

You'll figure it out someday.

 

You forgot, you are paid with XP. The Datacons are an optional "quest" like getting different codex entries which also give XP. Making them a once per legacy would remove the ability to gain that XP.

[theSCARAYone]

Actually, you are getting "paid" for finding those datacrons. You might not be getting "paid" in cash or credits, but you ARE getting "paid" with stat bonuses. So there IS value add work, and legacy datacrons would be value add work removed since you would be getting "paid" multiple times with stat bonuses for something you did only ONCE.

 

You'll figure it out someday.

 

My goodness. I really hope they add legacy datacrons just so we can see you flip sh** on the forums.

 

"GIVE EVERYONE BIS GEAR AND MAX COMPANIONS AND 1 SHOT KILL SKILLS TOO WHILE YOU'RE AT IT" - Ratajack

[TravelersWay]

The fact that something CAN be changed does not mean that it SHOULD be changed. Not all changes are good for the game and some changes that may seem to be good can have adverse affects.

 

Let's not forget what happens when you give a mouse a cookie. All you need to do is look at these forums to see what has happened almost every time BW has made a change to make "the game easier".

 

They gave us a double XP weekend, and when that weekend was over the forums exploded with clamoring of "when's the next double XP event", "Give us permanent double XP legacy unlocks" and "it's not fair that I missed out on double XP since I didn't play during the double XP weekend (for whatever reason) and you owe me BW".

 

They give us 12x XP so that players can level through class stories only and make the skills training free and the forums are full of complaints that they are not giving us free gear all the way to 55 and that players actually have to upgrade their gear.

 

They give us legacy storage and the forums are full of complaints that there is not enough space, or that there is no legacy credit storage.

 

What will the next demand be if they cave on this issue and give us legacy datacrons?

 

Maybe this is one cookie that the devs should not give that mouse.

 

Datacrons are one of those things that should remain in the "have to be earned per character" category, IMO. In addition, IMO, they should have to be earned at least once as designed before any unlocks to make them easier to obtain on subsequent characters be made available.

 

And despite all that, what has happened to the game? We've actually gotten more double XP weekends, in fact we got a double XP week, and the resultant 12x XP because of that. The game is still marching on with nary a misstep. Just because someone might complain in the forums also does not mean that something should not be changed. Not everything is a slippery slope, my friend. No matter what happens, people will complain in the forums. I complained about the implementation of Strongholds, but I still do not deny it was a good thing to do for the game. I complained, and will continue to complain, about the inability to toggle off the bonus XP, but I do not deny that is is good for the game. You give a mouse a cookie, and what happens? The mouse eats the cookie. Any myriad of things can happen beyond that, but if we were to fear what the future might bring with every single change or even suggestion of change, then we should no longer bother even waking up and getting out of bed every day. My nine-year-old daughter loves riding roller coasters. There is always the possibility that something fails and the coaster gets stuck, or she gets flung off and dies. Just because that could happen does not mean I would deny her the opportunity to ride roller coasters for all eternity. It is a risk that we take, just like each and every one of us take a risk walking out of our front door each and every day. To stay inside the house, never to see the light of day, simply because something bad might happen to us after we walk out of the door is foolish to say the least.

 

It does not matter one iota what the next demand will be if BioWare "caves" and allows for a way to obtain datacrons other than platforming. Again, you keep going back to the fear of Legacy Datacrons. Enabling Legacy datacrons is not necessary. Just because there might be people who ask for that doesn't mean that all suggestions to add another option to obtaining them must automatically be bad or be denied as well. I for one, have suggested something that would be a nice compromise between the two camps, and allow players to enjoy an aspect of the game that may not be necessarily enjoyable for any other reason than outside factors make it more onerous than it probably should be. Making things easier isn't always an onerous thing to do. Sometimes it is actually beneficial in the long term - history has proven that time and again, in and out of the gaming industry.

 

You do not like the idea of making datacrons easier to get. That's perfectly valid, there's no need to explain it any further than "I don't like it and I don't want it." Others obviously disagree with that feeling. They are no more right nor wrong than you are to feel that way. Ultimately, this may prove to be beneficial to the game just as all those other changes have been. It is perfectly acceptable for people to voice their feelings on the subject, but to use excuses that amount to nothing more than a "slippery slope" argument are just asinine. The slippery slope very rarely ever rears its head in actuality.

 

From my point of view, I have yet to see one argument against making obtaining datacrons more easily obtainable that points out a significant detriment or have adverse affects to gameplay by doing so. Therefore, IMO there is no valid reason I have seen not to implement a simple system that allows players to ease the platforming aspects of the half dozen or so datacrons that currently need it.

Edited October 13, 2014 by TravelersWay

[Jaxtes]

The guy hates changes and thinks all changes are for the worse.

Would have ignored him ages ago but his replies are amusing to read, most others just give a generic not-signed.

Gives analogy and reasons no matter how outlandish they are.

Besides i like the way he wants to compare RL to a game must think its an RPG too.

[MagikFingerz]

The guy hates changes and thinks all changes are for the worse.

Would have ignored him ages ago but his replies are amusing to read, most others just give a generic not-signed.

Gives analogy and reasons no matter how outlandish they are.

Besides i like the way he wants to compare RL to a game must think its an RPG too.

 

Yeah, I'll just grab some popcorn next time he posts and pretend I'm watching Ripley's Believe It Or Not

[Machazareel]

IMO, that analogy works fine here. Both are situations in which you expect to be rewarded multiple times simply because you did something ONCE. It seems to me that you don't like it because it IS accurate and you have no way to refute it. so you simply dismiss it.

 

 

Actually it is a matter of perspective. It's not necessarily being paid multiple times, but rather having the one payment improved substantially. Whether the current or revised payment is most in-line with the effort exerted is up for debate however.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Machazareel

[Zipacnaa]

-1

/notsigned™

 

Signed up for not signing up

[Ratajack]

you really should learn to play the game. I make quite a bit of cash selling relics. try trolling with something you actually know about.

 

Can you sell BIS relics? Can you sell BIS implants? Can you sell BIS earpieces?

[Ratajack]

You forgot, you are paid with XP. The Datacons are an optional "quest" like getting different codex entries which also give XP. Making them a once per legacy would remove the ability to gain that XP.

 

You are partially correct. I forgot about the XP.

 

Every person is "paid", at least in part, with the stat bonuses. Those players who have not yet reached max level also get XP as part of their "payment".

[Ratajack]

 

You do not like the idea of making datacrons easier to get. That's perfectly valid, there's no need to explain it any further than "I don't like it and I don't want it." Others obviously disagree with that feeling. They are no more right nor wrong than you are to feel that way. Ultimately, this may prove to be beneficial to the game just as all those other changes have been. It is perfectly acceptable for people to voice their feelings on the subject, but to use excuses that amount to nothing more than a "slippery slope" argument are just asinine. The slippery slope very rarely ever rears its head in actuality.

 

From my point of view, I have yet to see one argument against making obtaining datacrons more easily obtainable that points out a significant detriment or have adverse affects to gameplay by doing so. Therefore, IMO there is no valid reason I have seen not to implement a simple system that allows players to ease the platforming aspects of the half dozen or so datacrons that currently need it.

 

Did you miss all the times I said I support making datacrons easier to get for subsequent characters. Where we disagree is that you seem to want to make them easier to get from the start and I think that a player should find them at least once as they were designed.

 

I have not yet seen one reason to make obtaining datacrons legacy wide or easier to obtain from the start that does not boil down to "Too averse to the effort required to find them on every character" or "too averse to the effort of finding them as designed". Neither one of those is sufficient reason to change a completely OPTIONAL part of the game, IMO. I do, however, support making them easier to obtain on subsequent characters, as I said.

[Torvai]

Can you sell BIS relics? Can you sell BIS implants? Can you sell BIS earpieces?

 

No he can't. BiS isn't craftable atm.

[Torvai]

Did you miss all the times I said I support making datacrons easier to get for subsequent characters. Where we disagree is that you seem to want to make them easier to get from the start and I think that a player should find them at least once as they were designed.

 

I have not yet seen one reason to make obtaining datacrons legacy wide or easier to obtain from the start that does not boil down to "Too averse to the effort required to find them on every character" or "too averse to the effort of finding them as designed". Neither one of those is sufficient reason to change a completely OPTIONAL part of the game, IMO. I do, however, support making them easier to obtain on subsequent characters, as I said.

 

If they are a legacy unlock would mean that you have to find them once. You're aware if that?

[TravelersWay]

Did you miss all the times I said I support making datacrons easier to get for subsequent characters. Where we disagree is that you seem to want to make them easier to get from the start and I think that a player should find them at least once as they were designed.

And again, they were designed as rewards for exploration with multiple different ways to reach/obtain them. That would not change one iota by adding an additional way to reach/obtain them whether it be on the first character or the 20th alt. Said player would still have to explore and use one of those different ways to reach/obtain them. Original design still in tact, with the bonus that the very real issue of hardware and network lag is also solved, which BioWare has indicated they wish to rectify for all areas of the game as much as possible.

 

The fact that they are optional is completely irrelevant. Pretty much every thing in this game is optional: PvP is optional, Ops are optional, FPs are optional, Strongholds are optional, planetary missions are optional, Space PvE is optional. Hell, even playing one storyline is optional let alone all eight. You can go from 1 to max level by never touching PvE!! But each and every component is content in the game.

 

I have not yet seen one reason to make obtaining datacrons legacy wide or easier to obtain from the start that does not boil down to "Too averse to the effort required to find them on every character" or "too averse to the effort of finding them as designed". Neither one of those is sufficient reason to change a completely OPTIONAL part of the game, IMO. I do, however, support making them easier to obtain on subsequent characters, as I said.

Ahh, so avoiding an answer to the very issue that you presume will happen. OK I will go first. As I mention above there is a very real problem that players encounter hardware or network lag that prevents the acquisition of some datacrons because of the current mechanics that are in place. I myself, have tested this issue on 5 different systems and have supplied BioWare with that information. They have acknowledged that it is an issue. My solution solves that problem while still maintaining the original spirit and design of the acquisition of the datacrons.

 

The fact that they have not implemented something like my suggestion boils down to priorities. The datacrons, like an XP toggle, hood toggle, chat bubbles, chair sitting, etc. etc. are lower priority items, as they very well should be - there are more important things that need to be done and developed first.

 

But aside all that - history in the gaming industry (and in Real Life as a matter of fact) has shown that "Aversion to effort" is a very real and valid reason to change something, and the very reason a great many things have changed in both the gaming industry and in Real Life, for the betterment of all (and in fact why we have certain systems features in place in this very game right now). BioWare themselves have proven to accept "aversion to effort" as reason enough to add and change things in the game to make it easier to develop and/or allow people to play it in a manner that they find more enjoyable. Therefore, "aversion to effort" is one of the most valid reasons to use to change something.

Edited October 13, 2014 by TravelersWay

[Deewe]

To be honest gathering datacrons is a bit tedious... if you do it on all your alts.

 

I'd would be glad to have to do it once for each faction though, and it makes sense.

 

If it was this way I would be motivated to get them all. For now I have at best 5 on any of my characters and even.

For example I got the Tatooine balloon once only because waiting for a spawn then waiting on board isn't something that fun for me.

[theJudeAbides]

I think we need to break down this argument a bit, as I see it mainly being about 3 things: The stats, the codex entries, and the "Datacron Master" title.

 

The Codex Entries:

HELL YES. My God this needs to be done for ALL codex entries. Even more annoying, I can't see the codex entries for the Empire-only datacrons on my republic characters, and vice versa. It would be nice if I could read through all of the entries from 1 to 88 without needing to switch characters.

Codex entries have literally no impact on the game itself, they are tidbits of extra story/lore you can read if you like. There is no good reason that I can think of for them not to be shared.

 

The Title:

No, but I understand why you want it. To me titles are just minor customization you can make to your character, like the dye in your armor. That said, dyes are free, and not all characters can earn all titles. To me, a title should represent what you did with THAT character. If you're a Black Bisector, then you better well have saved Coruscant from faulty pipes! Yes, it's a tedious chore to get them all, but isn't that kind of the point? A title allows you to proudly show off your achievement and have it actually mean something.

It's a chore to track down a all the MCR-99 droids in order to get a silly pet, but you still have to do it with every character you want to have the pet. It's a chore to kill a bunch of world bosses... 3 times each no less... to get a mount which is really no different than any number of other mounts in the game, but you still have to do it for every character for whom you want the mount. Why? Because like titles, these pets and speeders (among many others) are tokens of an achievement, done with a specific character. They do not affect gameplay, are purely cosmetic, and give you absolutely zero help in an actual battle. But in a game that just introduced a new Home Interior Design Simulator... oops, I mean Galactic Strongholds... I'd say that's kind of the name of the game.

 

The Stats:

No, for obvious reasons. You want to improve your character? Go level up. You want better stats for your armor/weapons? Go make some money/earn some commendations, and go buy it. You want to further boost your stats after you've hit the max level and have the best gear? Go get them datacrons, although really, if you just get them as you go, it's much easier.

 

 

That said, I do agree that certain datacrons need to be made less of a chore. The most glaring one to me is the Tattoine "sit on the balloon for half an hour" ones. God, people have lives and jobs you know. Really, all you need to do is speed that puppy up so that you only have to be on it for about 5 minutes or less. Other than that, I don't mind the jumping puzzle ones... those are a test of skill. And yes, patience is a virtue for Jedi, but my Marauder has got things to do!!

[TravelersWay]

Other than that, I don't mind the jumping puzzle ones... those are a test of skill. And yes, patience is a virtue for Jedi, but my Marauder has got things to do!!

 

Unfortunately, as indicated, it is more of a test of skill when outside influences very much become a factor in the success or failure of "completing" content. All games developers have shown a propensity for trying to rectify such issues regardless of the content it affects, and regardless of the number of players that it affects. Much of that is done via providing options to players to minimize or eliminate the portions of gameplay that are affected when the correction of such issues are beyond both the developers' and the players' control.

Edited October 13, 2014 by TravelersWay

[Ratajack]

And again, they were designed as rewards for exploration with multiple different ways to reach/obtain them. That would not change one iota by adding an additional way to reach/obtain them whether it be on the first character or the 20th alt. Said player would still have to explore and use one of those different ways to reach/obtain them. Original design still in tact, with the bonus that the very real issue of hardware and network lag is also solved, which BioWare has indicated they wish to rectify for all areas of the game as much as possible.

 

The fact that they are optional is completely irrelevant. Pretty much every thing in this game is optional: PvP is optional, Ops are optional, FPs are optional, Strongholds are optional, planetary missions are optional, Space PvE is optional. Hell, even playing one storyline is optional let alone all eight. You can go from 1 to max level by never touching PvE!! But each and every component is content in the game.

 

 

Ahh, so avoiding an answer to the very issue that you presume will happen. OK I will go first. As I mention above there is a very real problem that players encounter hardware or network lag that prevents the acquisition of some datacrons because of the current mechanics that are in place. I myself, have tested this issue on 5 different systems and have supplied BioWare with that information. They have acknowledged that it is an issue. My solution solves that problem while still maintaining the original spirit and design of the acquisition of the datacrons.

 

The fact that they have not implemented something like my suggestion boils down to priorities. The datacrons, like an XP toggle, hood toggle, chat bubbles, chair sitting, etc. etc. are lower priority items, as they very well should be - there are more important things that need to be done and developed first.

 

But aside all that - history in the gaming industry (and in Real Life as a matter of fact) has shown that "Aversion to effort" is a very real and valid reason to change something, and the very reason a great many things have changed in both the gaming industry and in Real Life, for the betterment of all (and in fact why we have certain systems features in place in this very game right now). BioWare themselves have proven to accept "aversion to effort" as reason enough to add and change things in the game to make it easier to develop and/or allow people to play it in a manner that they find more enjoyable. Therefore, "aversion to effort" is one of the most valid reasons to use to change something.

 

We can agree to disagree, but while I do support making datacrons easier to obtain on SUBSEQUENT characters, I will not support making datacrons easier to obtain from the start. IMO, there is simply no reason not to require that the datacrons be found at least once as designed. This includes those few that were designed to be found by jumping if solo, or by co-operation between players.

[Foambreaker]

That would be awesome, it would be just like EVE Online, where vets farm new players in PvP.

 

+40 all stats would really help vets farm new players in low level PvP.

 

Stupid idea.

[Ratajack]

Unfortunately, as indicated, it is more of a test of skill when outside influences very much become a factor in the success or failure of "completing" content. All games developers have shown a propensity for trying to rectify such issues regardless of the content it affects, and regardless of the number of players that it affects. Much of that is done via providing options to players to minimize or eliminate the portions of gameplay that are affected when the correction of such issues are beyond both the developers' and the players' control.

 

If it is a test if skill, then why not require that player to show the skill at least once in order to obtain the reward?

 

Or, do you feel that everyone deserves a "participation ribbon"?

[Ratajack]

People might want to check out this thread, particularly the second post:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=768973

 

• Not sure I got that correctly but crystals wont' go farther +41 (for now).
  
• Faction change, if ever, will be a paid feature.
  
• For PVP was wondering about a single cluster from what he told (better than cross server queues).
  
• They are spending time on PvP balance so the why no new WZ this year.
  
• GSF will add stuff but seems no new ships nor maps (incentives?).
  [*]Datacron no legacy wide.
  
• Mute companions: maybe.
  
• Bonus sets from operations only as incentive to do them.
  

 

**And thanks OP

 

That would seem to be the latest word from the devs on this subject.

[TravelersWay]

We can agree to disagree, but while I do support making datacrons easier to obtain on SUBSEQUENT characters, I will not support making datacrons easier to obtain from the start. IMO, there is simply no reason not to require that the datacrons be found at least once as designed. This includes those few that were designed to be found by jumping if solo, or by co-operation between players.

 

Which is completely fair. IMO, there is no reason not to add in a system that allows players to minimize the platforming aspects of the game, as it still maintains the spirit of the original design and intent of what the 'crons represent, with the added benefit of adding something new to the Legacy system for players to enjoy, and eliminate/minimize the very real issue of lag and latency in regards to this particular piece of content. And there are many precedents to support this, as I have indicated in previous posts - not the least of which is BW's changing of the FPs/OPs related to the SoR to make them soloable. That's a much bigger change than anything proposed for the datacrons.

 

If it is a test if skill, then why not require that player to show the skill at least once in order to obtain the reward?

 

Or, do you feel that everyone deserves a "participation ribbon"?

First of all, there is nothing wrong with participation ribbons. Second of all, again, history has proven that if outside influences adversely affect "tests of skills" then society is more than willing to change the system in order to eliminate said influences. Heck, even our traditional sporting events are now realizing that fact and beginning to eliminate those outside influences/human error. Just because they have implemented changes for some things, but not all aspects, does not mean that they should not be implemented in the future or that they won't be implemented in the future. The gaming industry too has set precedents for eliminating the less desirable aspects of gaming over the years, and we have seen aspects of such in this very game. Again, the game and the community has only become better for it.

 

People might want to check out this thread, particularly the second post:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=768973

 

 

 

That would seem to be the latest word from the devs on this subject.

Which is perfectly fine. Again, no reason why players cannot still "whine and complain" and ask for them to be implemented. As I (and others) have mentioned more than once, there are countless examples of devs saying one thing, then eventually doing something else. Again, the latest example as I recall, was the team insisting that there would never be player housing implemented in the game, yet here we are with Strongholds. Ultimately, the fact that they said (or at least reportedly said since this is second hand information atm) this now is irrelevant to any possible future development, because things like this change all the time.

Edited October 13, 2014 by TravelersWay

[Ratajack]

 

 

Which is perfectly fine. Again, no reason why players cannot still "whine and complain" and ask for them to be implemented. As I (and others) have mentioned more than once, there are countless examples of devs saying one thing, then eventually doing something else. Again, the latest example as I recall, was the team insisting that there would never be player housing implemented in the game, yet here we are with Strongholds. Ultimately, the fact that they said (or at least reportedly said since this is second hand information atm) this now is irrelevant to any possible future development, because things like this change all the time.

 

First, I would suggest that you listen to the podcast and then make the determination for yourself as to whether or not this is "secondhand" information or "straight from the horse's mouth".

 

Second, players can still "whine and complain" all they want, but so can that 3 year old who's Mommy said "no, he can't have another cookie".

 

That three year old can throw a tantrum and throw himself on the floor, banging his fists if he chooses. Maybe Mommy will give him that cookie to "shut him up" and maybe Mommy will just let him cry until he realizes that he won't be getting that cookie. Maybe Mommy will give him a cookie later. After all, Mommy can change her mind at any time. IMO, though, the three old that accepts "no" for an answer will often find that he gets that cookie sooner than the one who throws a tantrum.

[demotivator]

Datacrons were a cool idea, and doing each of them once was a neat mechanic. Doing them again for every character is an absolute chore. Not to mention anything that requires constant alt-tabbing to check paths and locations etc really breaks immersion. If you're trying to make the game more appealing for veterans and new subscribers, stop forcing them to do repetitive, often aggravating exercises. Plus, it's an easy way to make people more excited for the new expansion. Thanks for listening

 

P.S I don't care if the bonuses don't kick in until 55. It only matters for endgame anyway

 

What's next?

 

"I have geared one character in full 186, so any new character I create should start with a complete set of 186."?

 

Datacrons are character based since they improve your character stats. Provided it doesn't make you OP, if you still want them, work for them. Period.

 

BW keeps starting new precedents (it all started with tacticals) that keep dumbing down the game and people keep asking for more. I am seriously losing hope.

Edited October 13, 2014 by demotivator

[Zoom_VI]

I fail to see how legacy datacrons would be any different than the legacy companion stat boosts we already have.

[Ratajack]

I fail to see how legacy datacrons would be any different than the legacy companion stat boosts we already have.

 

One affects main stats and the other affects secondary stats?

 

The devs have decided that one will not happen, and the other is already in place?