OrionSol Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 I would add that you are not trying to convince the community, you are trying to convince Bioware. They are your target audience. Keep that in mind when reading community responses. Agreed, most players don't bother with Hybrids, those of us that do, would like to keep the style of play alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Nope didn't care. I always believe if you pick a tree, should stick with it. I like Oak. Always have always will. That said I like Hybrids myself. Still I'll wait till I actually use it to form a opinion. It should be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkov Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Nope, I think this is better for balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrionSol Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 I like Oak. Always have always will. That said I like Hybrids myself. Still I'll wait till I actually use it to form a opinion. It should be interesting. Naturally we have to reserve judgement until we play it... but from what I have seen demo'd - not a fan, at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 The game itself is bigger than any one player or group of players who use a playstyle or build. The devs have to do what is best for the most amount of players. We have a winner. These two sentences sum it all up. No one is disparaging the OP's playstyle, but the needs of the many and all that come before any small group of players. I simply don't understand why this change upsets the OP so much when it really won't affect him in the least. If he is a casual that does everything else but end game then the change won't prevent him from doing what he normally does...he'll just have to do it under the discipline system instead of using a hybrid. If you don't do endgame, you don't understand the issues with balance and FotM builds that others do. You can't expect things to remain the same simply because your hybrid...which you don't use for endgame...suits your play style in other areas. I use a hybrid dps/heal sorc/sage for 50hms and tactical FP but it really isn't necessary...it's just something that makes running those things faster. Outside of that content it is useless both for end game FP and OPs and for PvP because it doesn't do either job well enough to compete in that tier of content. If the discipline system does what it seems to be doing, you'll still have the flexibility of utility skills...more so than we have now since we won't have to waste points on garbage skills we don't want in order to get the one we do. It's a win/win as far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 We have a winner. These two sentences sum it all up. No one is disparaging the OP's playstyle, but the needs of the many and all that come before any small group of players. I simply don't understand why this change upsets the OP so much when it really won't affect him in the least. If he is a casual that does everything else but end game then the change won't prevent him from doing what he normally does...he'll just have to do it under the discipline system instead of using a hybrid. If you don't do endgame, you don't understand the issues with balance and FotM builds that others do. You can't expect things to remain the same simply because your hybrid...which you don't use for endgame...suits your play style in other areas. I use a hybrid dps/heal sorc/sage for 50hms and tactical FP but it really isn't necessary...it's just something that makes running those things faster. Outside of that content it is useless both for end game FP and OPs and for PvP because it doesn't do either job well enough to compete in that tier of content. If the discipline system does what it seems to be doing, you'll still have the flexibility of utility skills...more so than we have now since we won't have to waste points on garbage skills we don't want in order to get the one we do. It's a win/win as far as I'm concerned. At least on my Sorc build, I have exactly 1 point I had to "waste" to open up a higher tier of skills in one of the trees. Everything else was stuff I wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfa Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) Nope glad they are gone. Hear, hear! There are too many choices in life as it is and I like being restricted to just a few, it takes one more thing off my plate to deal with. Edited October 10, 2014 by Elfa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esproc Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Hear, hear! There are too many choices in life as it is and I like being restricted to just a few, it takes one more thing off my plate to deal with. The pain of thinking and having to figure something out. I feel for you and the others that must suffer and struggle. Go play a game where you do not have to think to do anything. Go to some site or other that tells you how to build a character, how to use abilities for a character, and when to do things. I can train a monkey to do that and come out looking like a L33T player even though I wasn't there and had it all handed to me. Luckily I play other games as well, and will never see you there, that require some thought in application of the "Passive Skill Points" that guarantee a choice in game play and style. There are 1,350 skill points to choose from in creating your character and play style. Three basic characters of warrior, archer, mage type of design and Four HYBRID Character Classes to choose from. One of which you can not play until you have progressed to a certain point in the game with another character. All of the seven character classes, basic and HYBRID, share the same common "Passive Skill Tree" (1,350 Skills [reiterating] ) to choose the direction you want to take your character. Between the five games I jump around on, and others I rarely visit, I enjoy PoE vastly in the concept and ability to create and maintain a HYBRID even from a "basic" class" and the skills I have to choose from. OP should come and visit. The game was created for Gamers by Gamers. The game has also won a Game of the Year Award. Been with SWtOR from early access and am disgusted with the WoW take on the stunted and withered deadwood that they claim is a "tree" that gives you a choice to custom cater your cookie cut characters. Sadly ea has been taking ideas from other games, choosing the worst, and missing the better aspects while implementing "something new". The Lemmings are headed for the water. Have fun and enjoy what remains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) For example, the hybrid tk/balance sage is a fun build with no resource management issues (which is good since it completely lacks any sort of viable 'basic attack') that plays off certain procs... unlimited tk throw procs an 'instant' (still has global cooldown) turbulence or mind crush, then every 10 seconds you get a tk wave (and a 1/10 seconds double speed tk throw channel if you have weaken mind on the target). No mouse-driven AoE's, some extra mobility when your instant-cast powers proc, and just six or so powers to keep track of for your regular rotation. I'd like to point out (for the 5th time in this thread) that the TK/Balance hybrid is sort of staying in The main use of the hybrid was extra mobility and AoE for TK spec while keeping almost all of the burst + sustained capabilities (the difference is very small, as the auto-crit TB is almost completely made up for by +35% Disturbance/Mind Crush damage) Im gonna use Lightning terms now because we have the new names. When we look at new TK though: 2 seperate procs for Lightning Bolt to be used without being channeled - Mobility Force Lightning replaced with Lightning Flash, which is instant so no standing around - Mobility Force Mobility allowing thundering blast to be casted on the move - Mobility Crushing Darkness gets a proc for 0.5 seconds less cast time - Technically Mobility, even though your rooted. Its the only move forcing you to be rooted besides Lightning Storm anyway though, so... Chain Lightning causing the target to be overwhelmed, increasing AoE damage it takes by 10% - AoE Lightning Storm getting a +15% crit chance +30% surge talent picked up - AoE Lightning Storm having a utility for +25% damage - AoE In sorc terms, I'd recommend a utility build something like this alongside the lightning tree: Chain Shock Tempest Mastery Empty Body Suppression Dark Resilience Force Haste Force Mobility It almost completely simulates the hybrid with only a couple of differences, though it still retains the defining factors of mobility and AoE. When doing single target, only every few Lightning Bolts actually have to be casted. And while technically you also have to cast Crushing Darkness, isn't it also true that you had to constantly channel Force Lightning in the current hybrid spec? Sure you have to still cast Thundering Blast... But you can move while doing that now. As such, you can see that they took the defining reasons for the TK/Balance hybrid and stuck them all in the TK tree. I believe as such that the engineering rework will look to the Engineering/Lethality hybrid for inspiration, as that is another popular hybrid that was only 'patched out' because of a super-nerf to orbital (Highly suspect the replacement ability for engineering will be Orbital Strike) - Though TK/Balance was 'patched out' by buffing TK and Balance Edited October 10, 2014 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasimus Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 The pain of thinking and having to figure something out. I feel for you and the others that must suffer and struggle. ...... Luckily I play other games as well, and will never see you there, that require some thought in application of the "Passive Skill Points" that guarantee a choice in game play and style. There are 1,350 skill points to choose from in creating your character and play style. Three basic characters of warrior, archer, mage type of design and Four HYBRID Character Classes to choose from. One of which you can not play until you have progressed to a certain point in the game with another character. ..... PoE is a hack and slash RPG in the same genre as D3, and yes I've played both. Things you can do in what is basically a single player RPG can be exponentially more difficult to manage and balance in an MMORPG where changes effect everyone in the shared world. Someone preferring one over the other is fine. Personally I like both. But it would never occur to me to compare mechanics between games in different genres the requirements are just too different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carousel_t Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 *misses his immo/veng Jugg* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkais Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 ^ This, for the win... The only people I see upset about this change are: 1. People who just heard about it and haven't had a chance to actually understand it (they are usually fine once they do). 2. People who loved a overpowered hybrid spec in PvP that most people didn't know. Then I suggest you get a new set of eyeglasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrionSol Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 Then I suggest you get a new set of eyeglasses. He is obviously not reading the threads. I understand clearly how the new system is going to work, and that is why I don't like it. I have been playing a 50/50 hybrid from beta, because I like the gameplay of being a jack of all trades. Not because it is overpowered... because I assure you, it is not. Spike DPS always out parse me, as do full healers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) Then I suggest you get a new set of eyeglasses. No kidding. It's funny how easy it is for people who favor a change to imagine that everyone opposed to it is either ignorant or has some hidden issue... He is obviously not reading the threads. I understand clearly how the new system is going to work, and that is why I don't like it. I have been playing a 50/50 hybrid from beta, because I like the gameplay of being a jack of all trades. Not because it is overpowered... because I assure you, it is not. Spike DPS always out parse me, as do full healers. My Sorc has been a hybrid Corruption/Madness build for as long as I've been playing, and unlike what's being claimed in these threads, it's neither gimped nor monstrous. It simply suits what I do in the game better than any of the uberspecialized builds. Edited October 11, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) No kidding. It's funny how easy it is for people who favor a change to imagine that everyone opposed to it is either ignorant or has some hidden issue... My Sorc has been a hybrid Corruption/Madness build for as long as I've been playing, and unlike what's being claimed in these threads, it's neither gimped nor monstrous. It simply suits what I do in the game better than any of the uberspecialized builds. And again, the problem is that someone with your same build is going to be a detractor from flashpoints, operations, or PVP. Likewise, if someone finds some uberspecialized hybrid, that poses similar problems. Seriously, I don't know how those who favor the destruction of these wild card hybrids in group content can make it any clearer that it isn't about you specifically... I hate to be blunt, but you really have two options here. 1) Learn to like one of the new disciplines 2) Leave There is literally no way that they are going to change it. Had the feedback been 80% or greater in the negative, then who knows... but there seems to be a general consensus towards Disciplines of, "I want to wait and see how it plays out, but I am cautiously optimistic" Edited October 11, 2014 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) And again, the problem is that someone with your same build is going to be a detractor from flashpoints, operations, or PVP. Too bad. If you're so happy to see what I enjoy about the game wiped out, why should I give a damn what effect it had on your endgame ratrace crap? Never mind that this will not solve anything, just like it didn't solve anything in WoW. Bad players will still be bad players, exploits will still exist, and the PvPers and ratracers will still be the squeaky wheel and demand constant changes driven by largely imaginary balance "problems" that amount to nothing more than whining because their favored class doesn't faceroll some other class. Edited October 11, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrionSol Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 No kidding. It's funny how easy it is for people who favor a change to imagine that everyone opposed to it is either ignorant or has some hidden issue... My Sorc has been a hybrid Corruption/Madness build for as long as I've been playing, and unlike what's being claimed in these threads, it's neither gimped nor monstrous. It simply suits what I do in the game better than any of the uberspecialized builds. Exactly! I go into all HM content, (not night though) and have no issues using my template. My groups consider me a adds dps and off healer In pvp, it is fun to be able to do some off heals and some dps in between.- not over powered at all. It's so funny, people either say ZOMG OP, or ZOMG gimped - it can't be both people! Oh wait, it's a Hybrid, yes...yes it can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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