Please introduce dual spec ASAP

[kasanth]

where do you get that bull**** from?

 

dual specc was introduced because raid encounters where so different from one boss to another, that you needed 3 tanks and 7 healers and 15 dps for one boss and 2 tanks 5 healers and 18 dps for the boss right afterwards

 

 

 

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2140509123?page:32#62

 

Edited by Bashiok on 3/1/11 3:54 PM (PST) An oldie but a goodie!

 

The question used to be, why don't we have a way to keep a spec for PvE and PvP? And to a lesser extent, wouldn't it be great if I could swap roles with my hybrid if needed without having to hearth and make everyone wait on me?

 

Those are the specific reasons for why we agreed with the sentiment of those questions, and dual spec now exists in the game. It's great (kind of) that some people have found uses for it outside of that, having two slightly variant builds of the same spec for different situations, however, it's not our intent with multiple specs to encourage that type of gameplay, and thus it's not our intent to offer tri or quad or quint, etc. specs.

 

Obviously having an array of possible specs to choose from would be convenient for any number of reasons, but it would also encourage situations where people are using it to shift their builds around for each individual encounter or task. Those are the kinds of options that quickly stop being options, and instead become a requirement. And as they become a requirement our necessity to design and balance around it changes it from a nice convenience option to a core piece of the game design puzzle.

 

A lot of people like to throw the phrase 'slippery slope' at us when we make certain changes, and dual spec is actually truthfully one of those systems. Once we have two specs, why not three? If three, why not four? But, we have our hiking boots on, and don't intend to lose footing on this just yet. BUT sliding down muddy hills is a lot of fun, so you never know.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

From them saying it.

Anymore questions?

[sunsu]

The way i look at it, if the devs wanted something like this, the game would of started with it. We can spin this anyway you want, if you want dual spec why not get rid of the advanced class path choice, and just make it so u can switch back and forth with 10 specs that dont cost anything.

 

I would like it so i could teleport anywhere at anytime, travel is annoying to me, i think they should make it so i can do that. Also i think random armor/weapons drops are stupid, why not just make it so when im in a mission all the gear that drops is for my spec and class.

 

I dont like having to click on or mouseover someone, the computer should see who i mean to hit and pick the appropriate attack that does the most damage and then chain the rest of my abilities in nano seconds to wipe out my opponent.

 

i dont like the fact that people want to change a game im perfectly happy with, and change it to the way they want the game to be. Everyone has an opinion on how things should be, does that mean the devs should make every change that someone comes here asking for no matter how ridiculous it may be?

[stickyricky]

I think the problem is people are taking dual-spec as dual-ac.

[zandadoum]

There is no need to be able to store 2 specs. Your role should be fairly committed, meaning if you want to spec into something else, you should be forced to jump through some hoops. Classes need to mean something for a change.

 

my CLASS is bounty hunter, sub class MERCENARY. it's NOT healer or dps.

 

why does bioware allow respeccing in first place, hum? just so to test out other stuff or fix an error you did when selecting talents? applying your logic, not even that should be allowed.

ZOMG, at lvl49 i misclicked on a talent. gonna have to delete char and make a new one.

yeah, right.

 

allowing respecc and having dual classes is only a small step.

well, it would be, because a dual specc system "should" include storing 2 sets of quickbar and hotkeys too. and that's not a small step anymore unless they had that in mind from the start.

OH WAIT! maybe they had, and that's why my hotkeys are stored on the server rather than in a .ini file.

[zandadoum]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2140509123?page:32#62

 

Edited by Bashiok on 3/1/11 3:54 PM (PST) An oldie but a goodie!

 

The question used to be, why don't we have a way to keep a spec for PvE and PvP? And to a lesser extent, wouldn't it be great if I could swap roles with my hybrid if needed without having to hearth and make everyone wait on me?

 

Those are the specific reasons for why we agreed with the sentiment of those questions, and dual spec now exists in the game. It's great (kind of) that some people have found uses for it outside of that, having two slightly variant builds of the same spec for different situations, however, it's not our intent with multiple specs to encourage that type of gameplay, and thus it's not our intent to offer tri or quad or quint, etc. specs.

 

Obviously having an array of possible specs to choose from would be convenient for any number of reasons, but it would also encourage situations where people are using it to shift their builds around for each individual encounter or task. Those are the kinds of options that quickly stop being options, and instead become a requirement. And as they become a requirement our necessity to design and balance around it changes it from a nice convenience option to a core piece of the game design puzzle.

 

A lot of people like to throw the phrase 'slippery slope' at us when we make certain changes, and dual spec is actually truthfully one of those systems. Once we have two specs, why not three? If three, why not four? But, we have our hiking boots on, and don't intend to lose footing on this just yet. BUT sliding down muddy hills is a lot of fun, so you never know.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

From them saying it.

Anymore questions?

 

i have been in the blizzcon myself when they introduced dual speccs and had the developers themselve say it was being released for PVE. whatever a forum representative sais years later on the forum, i could not care less.

[Amaranth]

The way i look at it, if the devs wanted something like this, the game would of started with it.

 

No offense but that's a silly argument. There's plenty of things that they would like to do that don't get done by launch. It's not like the product is sealed as soon as it's released; that's what patches and game updates are for.

 

i dont like the fact that people want to change a game im perfectly happy with, and change it to the way they want the game to be. Everyone has an opinion on how things should be, does that mean the devs should make every change that someone comes here asking for no matter how ridiculous it may be?

 

Good thing the devs have already said that dual-specing will most likely be implemented at some point.

 

Honestly I can't think of a single logical reason for why anyone would be against dual-specing. There are plenty of cases where someone may want to switch between one of two specs, the obvious ones being healer/dps and tank/dps. And there's nothing game-breaking about allowing them to do so.

[uadarth]

No offense but that's a silly argument. There's plenty of things that they would like to do that don't get done by launch. It's not like the product is sealed as soon as it's released; that's what patches and game updates are for.

 

 

 

Good thing the devs have already said that dual-specing will most likely be implemented at some point.

 

Honestly I can't think of a single logical reason for why anyone would be against dual-specing. There are plenty of cases where someone may want to switch between one of two specs, the obvious ones being healer/dps and tank/dps. And there's nothing game-breaking about allowing them to do so.

 

Honestly, I can't think of a single LOGICAL reason that anyone would want dual specs so you never need to meet new people, actually fill a role, or make an insanely easy game even easier.

[Xzulld]

Honestly, I can't think of a single LOGICAL reason that anyone would want dual specs so you never need to meet new people, actually fill a role, or make an insanely easy game even easier.

 

Argument from ignorance: I cant think of a reason there for it is not logical.

 

 

The way i look at it, if the devs wanted something like this, the game would of started with it.

 

Argument from tradition: the fact is its going to be implemented becuase you are wrong about the desire of the devs.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Xzulld

[zandadoum]

Honestly, I can't think of a single LOGICAL reason that anyone would want dual specs so you never need to meet new people, actually fill a role, or make an insanely easy game even easier.

 

you have been given plenty of reason on why YES in this thread... if you would care to actually read it.

 

unlike WHY NOT, the only reason given so far has been "because you should not be able to change what you chose initially"...

[Khamil]

The way i look at it, if the devs wanted something like this, the game would of started with it. We can spin this anyway you want, if you want dual spec why not get rid of the advanced class path choice, and just make it so u can switch back and forth with 10 specs that dont cost anything.

 

SNIP

 

I will only point out that the game has launched with:

combat log disabled

no ui reallocation possible save chat tab placements

faulty guild list in social window

inability to add some people to friendlist one day and suddenly its ok the next day.

 

Statement: game wasnt complete at launch, but definately playable. Id say it lacks some features to make it feel more complete. Dualspec is arguably one that can make it.

Caveat: by dualspec most sane people mean ability to switch between 2 skill tree builds, not 2 advanced classes.

 

Dual spec also saves everyones valuable time when situations in a raid change (healer logged, that dps sorcerer need to respec and go back to skill mentor..blah).

Fine, let it cost some credits to enable dualspec, and give switching specs some requirement like be out of combat and cost a token fee each time its used, but it really wont hurt anyone. I really marvel at the resistance to the idea.

[Elblai]

I can't think of a logical reason why an Instance-Based Spec Swap, where your spec changes when you enter a Heroic, PvP, or Flashpoint, or whatever (which technically could allow for more than 2 specs) won't be considered as a possible option to Dual Speccing.

 

'Course, that's just me, playing irony over the last few posts...

[zandadoum]

I will only point out that the game has launched with:

combat log disabled

no ui reallocation possible save chat tab placements

faulty guild list in social window

inability to add some people to friendlist one day and suddenly its ok the next day.

 

Statement: game wasnt complete at launch, but definately playable. Id say it lacks some features to make it feel more complete. Dualspec is arguably one that can make it.

Caveat: by dualspec most sane people mean ability to switch between 2 skill tree builds, not 2 advanced classes.

 

Dual spec also saves everyones valuable time when situations in a raid change (healer logged, that dps sorcerer need to respec and go back to skill mentor..blah).

Fine, let it cost some credits to enable dualspec, and give switching specs some requirement like be out of combat and cost a token fee each time its used, but it really wont hurt anyone. I really marvel at the resistance to the idea.

 

you sir, make too much sense. but they will still not understand you. and if they do, they will still not agree with you (us)

[thoddiver]

I wish they would post some better feature lists or development. The "Look to the future" post really didn't say much at all about what they were working on. Cool picture though... dual spec looks like a great idea.

[Sajek]

No problem finding a healer or tank? Great, more power to you but when things stabilize, there won't be any more of those people than there are in WoW. And fact is, more people enjoy playing the pure dps role. Healers/tanks are not impossible to find, but it does invariably take longer since there are fewer. Any WoW player that plays pure dps can tell you of 30 minute queue times for random dungeons where tanks have an insta-queue and healers have a sub 5 minute one. Since most SWTOR players came from WoW, your playerbase/demographic is the same so the ratios of what role people like playing will tend to be relatively similar.

 

From a WoW 5 man perspective, you need 1 tank and 1 healer per 5 people. In SWTOR, you need 1 tank and 1 healer per 4 people. So 20% have to be those roles in WoW, now 25% have to be those roles in SWTOR. That's a 25% increase in people that play these specs.

 

Hate the WoW comparisons? Deal with it I guess. Talent trees are familiar, green/blue/purple quality items, mounts, auction house (those the SWTOR one needs a lot of work), mounts, gear with "sockets" so to speak, interface generally similar....hell, the "walk/run" toggle is the same which is the "\", "mining/herbing" nodes replaced with "scavenging/slicing/etc/etc" nodes. And the list of similarities goes on. BW put in what worked in WoW. Since WoW has 9M+ players, you can't ignore that. Nor can you ignore dual spec which was a huge success. I absolutely love in WoW that I can quickly respec to enjoy one aspect of the game or another. I like my character there and people form an affinity to their "mains" and like sticking with them. Alts never feel the same.

 

The need for respeccing in SWTOR is actually greater than it is in WoW. Don't get hung up on "principles". Ultimately you always have a personal choice but the argument of: "sorry, if you want this, go play another game" is just basically the most inane thing BW could do to customer feedback. The fact that this thread is so long shows that there is demand for it.

[Xzulld]

Instance-Based Spec Swap

 

Can you unpack what you mean by that? Like a stealth bar it swaps based on what you are doing kinda thing????

[RedSteelOne]

For one very important reason, it would solve the looking for healer problem.

 

1. Specing heals isn't enough of a boost to healing to justify it as your only spec.

 

2. You tend to spend 90% of the game soloing missions, and having only a heal spec slows the game down quite a bit.

 

3. Constantly respecing isn't really a viable option long term for many reasons.

 

This game really could benefit from dual spec.

 

I am totally against Dual speccing and feel it would go against the point of choosing the direction you want to go with your Advanced class. Please do not integrate dual speccing.

[Lethality]

my CLASS is bounty hunter, sub class MERCENARY. it's NOT healer or dps.

 

why does bioware allow respeccing in first place, hum? just so to test out other stuff or fix an error you did when selecting talents? applying your logic, not even that should be allowed.

ZOMG, at lvl49 i misclicked on a talent. gonna have to delete char and make a new one.

yeah, right.

 

allowing respecc and having dual classes is only a small step.

well, it would be, because a dual specc system "should" include storing 2 sets of quickbar and hotkeys too. and that's not a small step anymore unless they had that in mind from the start.

OH WAIT! maybe they had, and that's why my hotkeys are stored on the server rather than in a .ini file.

 

No... your STORY is a Bounty Hunter - your combat CLASS is a Mercenary.

 

Besides, this isn't about changing your class, which should never ever be allowed. It's about re-speccing within your class, which you can already do. You just have to hoof it to the Skill Mentor to do so.

 

It's a win-win because you get the flexibility you want but since it "costs" you something (time and credits) I know you won't be changing it like you change your pants.

 

Therefore, your role will mean something. And you will play it more.

 

You want to play on the 'leet' bleeding edge with multiple specs and roles? Then you need to pay the price to do it.

[Lethality]

you sir, make too much sense. but they will still not understand you. and if they do, they will still not agree with you (us)

 

The decision to change specs should cost you something, and the only real currency we have is time.

 

If you want to save 2 specs for the sake of convenience, fine. But you should still need to report to a Skill Mentor to swap them out.

[Sajek]

I am totally against Dual speccing and feel it would go against the point of choosing the direction you want to go with your Advanced class. Please do not integrate dual speccing.

 

Noone is talking about advanced class "switching". People are talking about clearing the talents you have in your 3 skill trees and choosing different ones.

 

A Sniper will always remain a Sniper. And Operative would always remain an Operative. I hope that everyone resisting the dual spec idea isn't confusing this issue.

[Elblai]

Can you unpack what you mean by that? Like a stealth bar it swaps based on what you are doing kinda thing????

 

Apologies. It was an idea that I introduced in another thread (and since I've seen others poke at it here and there - whether I was first or they thought it up on their own, I don't know) that a character would have a PvP, Heroic, and PvE spec. Just like in a Dual Spec setup, whenever you get a new talent point, you'd place it where you want to in each build... But the actual spec wouldn't "Activate" until you walked into the corresponding area.

 

So, for example, when you walk into a heroic area, your heroic spec would click into gear, complete with hotkey swapping and such that WoW was known for. Queue into PvP? Swaps out when you get there. Then, when you head into a PvE area it swaps back.

 

It is ambitious, and a lot more complicated than a Dual Spec system - I understand that. But, I believe it to be better.

 

Whatever works, right?

[Jethillex]

Honestly, I can't think of a single LOGICAL reason that anyone would want dual specs so you never need to meet new people, actually fill a role, or make an insanely easy game even easier.

 

What if your a DPS and the group is looking for a Healer, well there goes the opportunity to meet new people.

[zandadoum]

i wonder what all those anti-dual specc and anti-lfg tool people will do when bioware implements all that... and trust me, they will. more sooner than later. if they want to stay in the MMO market.

will you all QQ all over the forums and ragequit? oh man i'd love to see that. wait, no. i don't you're actually doing that already.

Edited December 29, 2011 by zandadoum

[notamisfit]

I seriously have to wonder why people think dual spec will fix the healer problem, when in the Other Game, dual spec, an automated LFD tool and outright bribery didn't even come close.

 

If dual spec is implemented, BioWare will essentially wash their hands of any problems with tank/healer leveling, as well as tank/healer ops scaling and effectively tell people to spec DPS if they don't like it.

[Elblai]

I admit that my idea doesn't address one or two reason why people want dual speccing - namely the "Oh crap our healer just dropped" reason, which I find most legitimate. But, it appears at least to me that the majority of people who are pushing for the Dual Spec seem to be of two schools: The "Let's test stuff" crowd and the "I want to do stuff in multiple places" crowd. My idea caters mostly to the later, since the former have largely said that lowered respec costs would be good enough.

 

It adds flexibility. That's what we're all going for isn't it?

[Zmidponk]

i wonder what all those anti-dual specc and anti-lfg tool people will do when bioware implements all that

 

Well, if they implement dual spec (and I understand they are actually planning on doing it), I will shake my head at Bioware's short-sightedness and continue to play the game. If they implement a WoW-style LFG tool, instead of merely, say, tweaking and making more obvious the LFG options that SWTOR already has, then I will watch that destroy the server communities that are just beginning to grow in SWTOR like it destroyed the already established server communities that existed in WoW when the LFG Tool got introduced there. Whether I'll quit at that stage really depends on a lot of other factors.