Bioware: Is Crafting to Win™ intended?

[Jherad]

Just gonna ask what everyone is probably thinking, You guys crafting to win this week too? lolz

You craft to win this week, it's definitely all on you & your choice.

 

What in the actual heck are you talking about?

 

Triumph will do whatever it takes in the current model to win. If that means crafting contributes 99.9% of the conquest points, then that's what will happen.

 

There's three situations that could occur:

 

1) They could not craft. They'd lose to guilds that did.

 

2) They could not say a word about it - know that it is completely broken, but sigh, carry on, collect their titles and move on. Outcome as the same as point 1.

 

OR

 

3) They could point out that the system is horribly horrible broken making crafting the only realistic way to win in a competitive environment against other guilds who will also do whatever it takes.

 

For some bizarro-world reason you think options 1 or 2 make things all happy happy joy joy.

 

Either you don't understand the problem (that crafting awards so many points that it makes every other activity relatively meaningless), or you have a very very odd worldview.

[Mefistofles]

It is critical to understand the motivations of the OP, expressed here and based on past behavior, and my conclusion is that it is not in the interest of the overall community.

 

First, a little background into past behavior. The OP and current co-GM of Triumph used to be a player in an Empire side PvP guild called Infinite Darkness. ID members used to post extremely arrogant, mean-spirited elitist posts on the SWTOR forums, and their guild not only dominated ranked PvP when it first came out, they pretty much wrecked it for everyone else. Instead of building a sense of PvP community by working with other PvP guilds to create a ladder system and/or teach players how to play, ID only concerned themselves with ID. Then, they packed their bags and headed for a "real" PvP server, Pot5. ID members tried to get PvPers to leave Shadowlands and insulted the server on their way out.

 

Don't believe me? Check the posting history on the Shadowlands server forum. Ask anyone still left over from PvP back when ID dominated.

 

With that context, I start from the proposition that the OP primarily cares about the OP and the guild Triumph. This is bolstered by the following facts/analysis:

 

1. A nerf to crafting points would benefit the giant guilds like Triumph, for at least three reasons:

 

a. Triumph would in the future have little reason to fear a craft bomb from an upstart again. Last week, they felt compelled to maintain a 5 million point lead because they were worried about a last minute craft bomb from WOOK.

b. With sheer player numbers (200+ active members) and even assuming equal participation per player from other guilds, Triumph would overwhelm the nerf to crafting by other Conquest methods and Triumph would more easily stay on top.

c. Triumph would not have to risk as much player burnout and resource exhaustion if crafting is nerfed, especially if a hard cap is imposed.

 

2. The OP and others in this thread acknowledge that crafting is a huge materials/credits/time sink. Bioware has wanted to get credits out of the game, and this is about the most effective way to do it (at least until the GTN commission system is revamped). Once materials are crafted into War Supplies, they lose most of their GTN value. Gathering missions also slowly drain resources, which must be regnerated with time and/or selling on the GTN.

 

3. The OP has stated that they are in Conquest to win. They certainly aren't in it just for the competition. This is demonstrated by the fact that in the first seven weeks of Conquest, they have not directly challenged the prime Republic competitor on the Shadowlands, the highly organized and undefeated Old Republic Dads (ORD). ORD even challenged PvP guilds to come face them on Hoth, a PvP planet, one week; Triumph, a PvP heavy guild, did not rise to the challenge.

 

TL;DR 1 Triumph benefits from the current system, but would benefit even more from a nerf to crafting.

 

In conclusion, as it currently stands, it is in the overall Conquest community's interest if guilds like Triumph, WOOK, ORD, and Covenant of the Phoenix have to risk and ultimately incur player base burnout/exhaustion to win planets. Their player bases have the option of voting with their feet by turning on their leadership and telling them they won't craft relentlessly any more.

 

Crafting, under the right circumstances, is currently the only way for smaller, more organized guilds to compete with larger guilds. TDT has done it twice, but as our GM has already stated, we know the odds of taking down one of the big four are very low.

 

___________

 

The community's true interest is in finding balance in Conquest, so that smaller guilds could compete on an equal footing with the behemoths. I'm talking guilds with maybe as low as 20 active unique players (there does come a point where a guild isn't really a guild, and I admit I don't know where that is). I'm also interested in ideas where some planets are tilted towards smaller guilds, while one or two are tilted towards larger guilds, so that big guilds can't avoid each other and must directly compete. It is a real complicated topic, and the solutions aren't simple, but some good ideas have been posted.

 

You will notice that Triumph's co-GM provided no serious constructive advice on how to achieve actual balance, just lip service to the concept. In my opinion, that is because Triumph has no current interest in it. Their primary, overwhelming interest is to win planets. Balance puts that in jeopardy.

 

Triumph has little to worry about. Balance efforts are probably two to three months down the road, if Bioware responses are to be believed. By that time, Triumph will have conquered most if not all of the planets they need.

 

For those guilds such as ours who can't presently expect to beat the behemoths, the top 10 is still easily achievable without crafting. At least it will be until everybody behaves like WOOK and Triumph circa week six - and no guild has up to this point. Finish 2nd or finish 10th, the rewards are the same.

 

TL;DR 2: Balance first, nerf crafting as a component of balance. System stays the same until balanced.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Mefistofles

[Foambreaker]

BW, I don't Craft, PLS NERF CRAFTING

 

/thread

[swtordrz]

Since there are no interdependent choices between "game players" in "game theory" terms, crafting has been incorrectly identified as a "saddle point", will not expound "saddle point" here to go off-topic, plenty of resources on internet, crafting is simply the most time-efficient manner to gain Conquest Points.

 

1. Is crafting the most cost-efficient pathway? That is another story.

 

2. Is crafting the most enjoyable gaming pathway? Again, another story.

 

3. Does Conquest System need further tweaking? Still, another story.

 

What the OP revealed is unsurprising to anyone who has applied basic math skills since many Guilds and players have been crafting to win since Conquest started, thank you OP for the clear breakdown. However, why we have so many pages in this thread is a mixture of people offering suggestions to similar questions above together with questioning intentions behind doing the "magician's reveal" here, since it was hardly a mystery to anyone who put some thought into the current system.

 

Back to OP question, "Bioware: is crafting to win intended?"

 

Though many Conquest System tweaking issues may still remain, no word from Bioware yet like previous adjustments to PvE and PvP, so fellow gamers, until Bioware announces any crafting tweaks, if you prefer to stay on the leaderboard through time-efficiency, keep on crafting to win.

[Jadescythe]

*snip*

 

In this entire post of hate, I only found one genuinely good idea that you had. I like your idea of gearing planets towards small guilds and large guilds. I think segmenting the population is really the only way to make it fair for everyone as a per player scoring system hurts large guilds and the overall points hurts small guilds. Perhaps you could score per player on half the planets each week and overall guild score on the other half.

 

As to 99% of this post, I don't understand it.

 

1) If you goal is to WIN, then why would you go to a competitive planet? It seems your guild's goal is competition and you are pushing that on another guild.

 

2) You state that currently, crafting is the only thing that gives smaller guilds a chance to win. But not only is this a horribly toxic mechanic to smaller guilds (making them spend massive amounts of money and mats to get enough points), but it clearly alienates any guild who chooses not to craft. It isn't an option, it's 100% required of every guild hoping to get the top spot or even top 3. So you aren't helping small guilds, you are hurting them tremendously.

 

Small guilds MAY need a way to compete (this will be personal opinion as to what the desired outcome of Conquest is and could be a debate of it's own), but the completely ridiculous amounts of points offered through crafting does not give them that option regardless. Sure, it can give them a lot of points, but if they put up a fight, why can't the big guilds just do more of the same like what played out in the scenario of this post? Big guilds will always be able to do more in an overall points system.

 

3) As i said before, the OP's motives are irrelevant. Whether their goal is to make things better for their guild or not, anyone can see that crafting is completely unbalanced compared to all other methods of scoring points. This essentially makes other activities meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

[ParagonAX]

We get a lot of hate, I get it. But it usually comes from anonymous trolls.

 

It actually baffles me that an Officer in The Drunk Tanks, who I have always regarded as a logical, rational, and well-run guild, has so much hate towards us trying to improve the game for the better.

 

Logic doesn't work against these trolls. They stick by their fervent belief that we are harbouring a secret agenda, and that they are absolutely brilliant for seeing through our guises. They absolutely ignore all irrefutable evidence, stats, maths, and the issue at hand.

 

Edit: @Mefistofles, are you representing the views of your guild? It's OK if you are, or are not. It's just that in the majority of cases Officers of large guilds weigh their words before speaking, because (rightfully so) their words carry weight. Forgive me, I am just trying to understand. I have never asked the other naysayers the same question.

Edited October 1, 2014 by ParagonAX

[DarthTHC]

Sadly, crafting is the one thing they can indirectly sell on the CM...I honestly doubt you'll ever see it change. I agree 100% with you, but $ speaks.

 

I don't see the link between crafting and Cartel Market.

 

Crafting materials come mainly from running gathering missions with a small percentage from harvesting nodes and kills while playing. A very very very very tiny percentage of items that come from CM gambling packs can be turned into crafting materials, and it's completely random, and it's nowhere near efficient, so that can't be it.

 

What's the link you see?

 

I see the crafting focus of many (but not all) planets as a way to pull credits out of the economy - credit drain. As I mentioned, most materials come from missions and those missions cost credits to run, and those credits are destroyed when the missions are run.

 

But even then, I don't see it as that big. To keep my small army of crafters rolling war supplies for the entirety of one conquest, my (mission) cost of materials would be under 6 mil.

Edited October 1, 2014 by DarthTHC

[Domatron]

snip [/b]

 

1) ID did more than anyone to promote ranked on shadowlands they invited anyone they could to do kickball ranked for months, that's how I got into 8v8s. Sorry you didn't get invited, the real issue was people can't stand losing and gravitate to the top guilds or quit when they can't beat them.

 

2) triumph hasn't dodged anyone, tae made a plan from week one for what planets to take on what week. That's why the battle with wook occurred because both guilds saw this was really the only chance to get this planet.

 

3) go back a page I linked a post from 3 weeks ago ravinder made to point out the imbalance, everyone dismissed it until thus week.

 

4) none of this has anything to do with the topic at had. Your motivations are also clear, you still have a grudge.

 

If pve and PvP repeatables were nerfed why not crafting?

Activities far less meaningful to conquest points have already been nerfed because they were deemed OP.

Crafting should stay a part of conquest, imo all activities should be repeatable with the weekly/planetary theme determining the best point activity.

 

We are going to win all the planets we want to take, easily. Advocating for balance =/= trying to undermine everyone else.

If we wanted to be ruthless, we wouldn't have said anything and just kept it to ourselves.

[Churb]

It is critical to understand the motivations of the OP, expressed here and based on past behavior, and my conclusion is that it is not in the interest of the overall community.

 

First, a little background into past behavior. The OP and current co-GM of Triumph used to be a player in an Empire side PvP guild called Infinite Darkness. ID members used to post extremely arrogant, mean-spirited elitist posts on the SWTOR forums, and their guild not only dominated ranked PvP when it first came out, they pretty much wrecked it for everyone else. Instead of building a sense of PvP community by working with other PvP guilds to create a ladder system and/or teach players how to play, ID only concerned themselves with ID. Then, they packed their bags and headed for a "real" PvP server, Pot5. ID members tried to get PvPers to leave Shadowlands and insulted the server on their way out.

 

Don't believe me? Check the posting history on the Shadowlands server forum. Ask anyone still left over from PvP back when ID dominated.

 

With that context, I start from the proposition that the OP primarily cares about the OP and the guild Triumph. This is bolstered by the following facts/analysis:

 

1. A nerf to crafting points would benefit the giant guilds like Triumph, for at least three reasons:

 

a. Triumph would in the future have little reason to fear a craft bomb from an upstart again. Last week, they felt compelled to maintain a 5 million point lead because they were worried about a last minute craft bomb from WOOK.

b. With sheer player numbers (200+ active members) and even assuming equal participation per player from other guilds, Triumph would overwhelm the nerf to crafting by other Conquest methods and Triumph would more easily stay on top.

c. Triumph would not have to risk as much player burnout and resource exhaustion if crafting is nerfed, especially if a hard cap is imposed.

 

2. The OP and others in this thread acknowledge that crafting is a huge materials/credits/time sink. Bioware has wanted to get credits out of the game, and this is about the most effective way to do it (at least until the GTN commission system is revamped). Once materials are crafted into War Supplies, they lose most of their GTN value. Gathering missions also slowly drain resources, which must be regnerated with time and/or selling on the GTN.

 

3. The OP has stated that they are in Conquest to win. They certainly aren't in it just for the competition. This is demonstrated by the fact that in the first seven weeks of Conquest, they have not directly challenged the prime Republic competitor on the Shadowlands, the highly organized and undefeated Old Republic Dads (ORD). ORD even challenged PvP guilds to come face them on Hoth, a PvP planet, one week; Triumph, a PvP heavy guild, did not rise to the challenge.

 

TL;DR 1 Triumph benefits from the current system, but would benefit even more from a nerf to crafting.

 

In conclusion, as it currently stands, it is in the overall Conquest community's interest if guilds like Triumph, WOOK, ORD, and Covenant of the Phoenix have to risk and ultimately incur player base burnout/exhaustion to win planets. Their player bases have the option of voting with their feet by turning on their leadership and telling them they won't craft relentlessly any more.

 

Crafting, under the right circumstances, is currently the only way for smaller, more organized guilds to compete with larger guilds. TDT has done it twice, but as our GM has already stated, we know the odds of taking down one of the big four are very low.

 

___________

 

The community's true interest is in finding balance in Conquest, so that smaller guilds could compete on an equal footing with the behemoths. I'm talking guilds with maybe as low as 20 active unique players (there does come a point where a guild isn't really a guild, and I admit I don't know where that is). I'm also interested in ideas where some planets are tilted towards smaller guilds, while one or two are tilted towards larger guilds, so that big guilds can't avoid each other and must directly compete. It is a real complicated topic, and the solutions aren't simple, but some good ideas have been posted.

 

You will notice that Triumph's co-GM provided no serious constructive advice on how to achieve actual balance, just lip service to the concept. In my opinion, that is because Triumph has no current interest in it. Their primary, overwhelming interest is to win planets. Balance puts that in jeopardy.

 

Triumph has little to worry about. Balance efforts are probably two to three months down the road, if Bioware responses are to be believed. By that time, Triumph will have conquered most if not all of the planets they need.

 

For those guilds such as ours who can't presently expect to beat the behemoths, the top 10 is still easily achievable without crafting. At least it will be until everybody behaves like WOOK and Triumph circa week six - and no guild has up to this point. Finish 2nd or finish 10th, the rewards are the same.

 

TL;DR 2: Balance first, nerf crafting as a component of balance. System stays the same until balanced.

 

Calling B.S on you

 

http://i.imgur.com/FNhZak4.png

 

hey look, you guys only won because of a craft bomb a couple hours before the end:rak_03::rak_03:

 

so basically, you're accusing the OP who has a more then reasonable and logical post and problem to discuss and instead of contributing in any way, decide to call him out for being self centered and onyl doing this for his guild.

 

yet look, you want crafting to stay as is because its the only way your guild can win:confused::confused:

 

derp

[TUXs]

1. A nerf to crafting points would benefit the giant guilds like Triumph, for at least three reasons:

 

a. Triumph would in the future have little reason to fear a craft bomb from an upstart again. Last week, they felt compelled to maintain a 5 million point lead because they were worried about a last minute craft bomb from WOOK.

OK...?! What does this have to do with anything? They feared another guild in 2nd place might be able to overcome them? Reduce crafting points and that is STILL a concern...right? If it's not 5 million, it'll be 5 thousand...whatever they need to win.

b. With sheer player numbers (200+ active members) and even assuming equal participation per player from other guilds, Triumph would overwhelm the nerf to crafting by other Conquest methods and Triumph would more easily stay on top.

Shouldn't they though? Doesn't it make sense to you that a guild of 200 active players would win? It's not easy to run something that large...I guess I don't quite understand why you think a guild of 200 players should have anything to fear from a guild of 20? Size does matter...as it should.

c. Triumph would not have to risk as much player burnout and resource exhaustion if crafting is nerfed, especially if a hard cap is imposed.

Resources are of no concern. Buy cartel packs, get mats, profit. The burnout however, that doesn't simply impact Triumph...that impacts every guild on that board.

 

2. The OP and others in this thread acknowledge that crafting is a huge materials/credits/time sink. Bioware has wanted to get credits out of the game, and this is about the most effective way to do it (at least until the GTN commission system is revamped). Once materials are crafted into War Supplies, they lose most of their GTN value. Gathering missions also slowly drain resources, which must be regnerated with time and/or selling on the GTN.

This has NOTHING to do with removing credits from the game, and EVERYTHING to do with removing $ from your wallet. Bioware doesn't give a flip how many resources or fake dollars you have...it's how much you're willing to spend that they care about.

 

TL;DR 1 Triumph benefits from the current system, but would benefit even more from a nerf to crafting.

How would it be more? It would be the same either way...

 

I'm not trying to defend the OP or his guilds behavior, I don't know them, but I do know that right now, crafting is 100% the P2W way to win conquests. As long as it stays P2W, I don't expect Bioware to adjust a damn thing...it simply cheapens the entire Conquest system is all.

[DarthTHC]

...I'm not trying to defend the OP or his guilds behavior, I don't know them, but I do know that right now, crafting is 100% the P2W way to win conquests. As long as it stays P2W, I don't expect Bioware to adjust a damn thing...it simply cheapens the entire Conquest system is all.

 

You keep asserting that P2W stuff. Is there a type of item you can buy from Cartel Market that has a high yield of crafting materials? The gambling packs definitely aren't it, based on my experiences with them.

[swtordrz]

We get a lot of hate, I get it. But it usually comes from anonymous trolls.

 

It actually baffles me that an Officer in The Drunk Tanks, who I have always regarded as a logical, rational, and well-run guild, has so much hate towards us trying to improve the game for the better.

 

Since large active Guilds have a lot to gain from crafting, they also have the potential to lose from crafting, calling for a crafting nerf is significantly more about the upside to large Guilds who can, by your own admission, win through non-crafting means than a downside to our gaming community. By your own arguments then, if crafting is nerfed, your win strategies lose the most significant threat.

 

We mostly agree there is no "scissors, paper, rock game" happening in the Conquest System, there is "bomb", which beats all, now you want "bomb" out of play since, by your own admission, you can "win" by any other means. You could have equally asked "Bioware: is zerging to win intended?" detailing how more people clicking more buttons is what Conquest System in its current form is truly all about.

 

Thank you for making it increasingly evident what may be the true motivating spirit behind your intentions to start this thread calling for a crafting nerf, the rest of us will continue to do our best to promote the interests of the entire gaming community above the preferences of any particular group of players.

[Jadescythe]

You keep asserting that P2W stuff. Is there a type of item you can buy from Cartel Market that has a high yield of crafting materials? The gambling packs definitely aren't it, based on my experiences with them.

 

They do indirectly.

 

One can buy CM packs filled with jawa junk to trade for mats, sell the rest of the stuff in the packs for credits, buy more mats, and then queue up a dozen alts to craft up a million points.

 

Every other activity requires actually playing the game, with the CM having no effect on the potential amount of Conquest points earned.

 

That was posted a few pages back.

[DarthTHC]

That was posted a few pages back.

 

What is the name of that pack that has a bunch of Jawa Junk in it?

[Large_Signature]

just going to edit out all of that sillynessTL;DR 2: Balance first, nerf crafting as a component of balance. System stays the same until balanced.

 

so pretty much this

 

you're guild craft bombed another with less then 15 minutes left, obviously you very much favor and use crafting to your advantage, and you want to keep it that way

 

so you say Triumph is just asking for a nerf now because they dont want to craft anymore, yet they brought this problem to attention several weeks ago http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=763243&highlight=Conquest+crafting

 

that was before triumph was EVER in any form of competition for #1 spot

 

 

le sigh

[Jadescythe]

Since large active Guilds have a lot to gain from crafting, they also have the potential to lose from crafting, calling for a crafting nerf is significantly more about the upside to large Guilds who can, by your own admission, win through non-crafting means than a downside to our gaming community. By your own arguments then, if crafting is nerfed, your win strategies lose the most significant threat.

 

We mostly agree there is no "scissors, paper, rock game" happening in the Conquest System, there is "bomb", which beats all, now you want "bomb" out of play since, by your own admission, you can "win" by any other means. You could have equally asked "Bioware: is zerging to win intended?" detailing how more people clicking more buttons is what Conquest System in its current form is truly all about.

 

Thank you for making it increasingly evident what may be the true motivating spirit behind your intentions to start this thread calling for a crafting nerf, the rest of us will continue to do our best to promote the interests of the entire gaming community above the preferences of any particular group of players.

 

This is a horrible position. Smaller guilds have an EXTREMELY REMOTE chance of winning with the way crafting is now. It's not like it's the great equalizer. I would highly suggest coming up with a plan that stabilizes Conquest for smaller guilds that isn't terrible for everyone involved. This entire post is not an argument as to whether small guilds have it good now or if they need a change to be competitive, but about the absurd percentage of points crafting is in the current system.

 

If it were my guild, I'd like to have more than an outside chance of competing by spending every credit the guild has in a feeble attempt to dethrone a giant guild that will just spend more.

[Domatron]

Since large active Guilds have a lot to gain from crafting, they also have the potential to lose from crafting, calling for a crafting nerf is significantly more about the upside to large Guilds who can, by your own admission, win through non-crafting means than a downside to our gaming community. By your own arguments then, if crafting is nerfed, your win strategies lose the most significant threat.

 

We mostly agree there is no "scissors, paper, rock game" happening in the Conquest System, there is "bomb", which beats all, now you want "bomb" out of play since, by your own admission, you can "win" by any other means. You could have equally asked "Bioware: is zerging to win intended?" detailing how more people clicking more buttons is what Conquest System in its current form is truly all about.

 

Thank you for making it increasingly evident what may be the true motivating spirit behind your intentions to start this thread calling for a crafting nerf, the rest of us will continue to do our best to promote the interests of the entire gaming community above the preferences of any particular group of players.

 

How is the whole community served by having one activity make the entire rest of the system irrelevant?

 

Don't break your legs falling off your high horse you only want this left alone to benefit yourself, not the community.

 

In any other game mode having an imbalance this large would not be tolerated. In previous conquest nerfs lesser advantages weren't tolerated.

 

For everyones information Triumph didn't even exist before conquests were announced, Paragon formed, recruited, merged and organized for the purpose of winning conquest. This organization does take effort.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Domatron

[swtordrz]

If we wanted to be ruthless, we wouldn't have said anything and just kept it to ourselves.

 

There is no need to keep pretending you kept something to yourselves that most players already knew about regarding crafting and that doing this "magician's reveal" is somehow of benefit to the entire community, we can all see through that transparent attempt at genuine altruism, nice try though.

 

The thread title answered itself as a rhetorical question through a wide range of intentions that may not necessarily be designed to promote the highest levels of the entire gaming community.

[Zoom_VI]

1) If you goal is to WIN, then why would you go to a competitive planet? It seems your guild's goal is competition and you are pushing that on another guild.

Because that's not how competition works? Good healthy competition is from measuring yourself against others at your level. Beating up the little guys that have zero chance of winning is pathetic.

 

2) You state that currently, crafting is the only thing that gives smaller guilds a chance to win. But not only is this a horribly toxic mechanic to smaller guilds (making them spend massive amounts of money and mats to get enough points), but it clearly alienates any guild who chooses not to craft. It isn't an option, it's 100% required of every guild hoping to get the top spot or even top 3. So you aren't helping small guilds, you are hurting them tremendously.

All methods of gaining conquest points favor large guilds, However Crafting is not nearly as dependent on guild size as the others are..

 

3) As i said before, the OP's motives are irrelevant. Whether their goal is to make things better for their guild or not, anyone can see that crafting is completely unbalanced compared to all other methods of scoring points. This essentially makes other activities meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

Motivations are always relevant. Trying to get things nerfed just because it serves their purposes is just plain petty, particularly since they also like to lie about it. If they had truly cared about balancing it, they would have posted this on the very first week of conquest.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[Large_Signature]

Because that's not how competition works? Good healthy competition is from measuring yourself against others at your level. Beating up the little guys that have zero chance of winning is pathetic.

 

 

All methods of gaining conquest points favor large guilds, However Crafting is not nearly as dependent on guild size as the others are..

 

 

Motivations are always relevant. Trying to get things nerfed just because it serves their purposes is just plain petty, particularly since they also like to lie about it. If they had truly cared about balancing it, they would have posted this on the very first week of conquest.

 

it was posted earlier

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=763243&highlight=Conquest+crafting

 

and that was before we ever had any competition for a planet

[DOHboy]

Not to be a jerk, but responding in kind, L2Read. The link you provided tells me about the Jawa Scrap Peddlers, which I already knew about, and tells me Jawa Junk drops from Cartel (gambling) packs, which I also already knew.

 

However, the question that I asked was: What is the name of the pack from which people are obtaining these mass quantities of Jawa Junk?

 

I have to assume it's not the gambling packs (as in the most recent Constable's Stronghold Pack) because I can do basic math. Therefore, I have to assume that there is another one with which I am unfamiliar.

 

So... educate me, Swami, please! What is the name of the pack with Jawa Junk you're using as the basis for your "Crafting is P2W Conquest" argument?

 

the items have been dropping since shipment 4 started. They don not drop all that many, buy enough you CAN get a fair amount of stacks but it is not the crafting factory that many assume it is. at 8 mats per, a full stack of 99 mats of all 3 can only net you 12 crafted items.

 

The premium mats drop at different rates than the artifact or prototype items. drop rates are something 20: 6:1 for premium, prototype,artifact I have something like 9 or 10 full stacks of premium junk parts, 3 or 4 of the prototypes and about a stack of maybe 40 artifact level mats. Not the crafting factory people make them out to be.

[swtordrz]

This is a horrible position. Smaller guilds have an EXTREMELY REMOTE chance of winning with the way crafting is now. It's not like it's the great equalizer. I would highly suggest coming up with a plan that stabilizes Conquest for smaller guilds that isn't terrible for everyone involved. This entire post is not an argument as to whether small guilds have it good now or if they need a change to be competitive, but about the absurd percentage of points crafting is in the current system.

 

If it were my guild, I'd like to have more than an outside chance of competing by spending every credit the guild has in a feeble attempt to dethrone a giant guild that will just spend more.

 

As shown in previous posts, always maintained there is lack of balance in the Conquest System for all players, crafting tweaking is certainly needed, it is simply that motivations are becoming clearer that larger Guilds have more to "lose" if Conquest System keeps the high grinding element that may fatigue players. For example, on our server, players in one large Guild are kicked from Guild if they do not meet CPs quota, which could easily be achieved through crafting, non-crafters had to keep grinding to keep their spot.

 

Balance system, then see the place of each element within the system, such as PvE, PvP and crafting for the greater good of the entire gaming community, that is all I have advocated, nothing more, nothing less, at the moment crafting is king. As for the primary intentions of others, that remains to be seen, what is left unsaid by Bioware so far is coming through loud and clear.

Edited October 1, 2014 by swtordrz

[TUXs]

Not to be a jerk, but...

 

So... educate me, Swami, please! What is the name of the pack with Jawa Junk you're using as the basis for your "Crafting is P2W Conquest" argument?

They're called the "Hypercrate" pack.

[Domatron]

Balance system, then see the place of each element within the system, such as PvE, PvP and crafting for the greater good of the entire gaming community, that is all I have advocated, nothing more, nothing less, at the moment crafting is king. As for the primary intentions of others, that remains to be seen, what is left unsaid is coming through loud and clear.

 

So in actuality after you make a ton of assumptions about our motivations, you agree with us.

[iamef]

Not to be a jerk, but responding in kind, L2Read. The link you provided tells me about the Jawa Scrap Peddlers, which I already knew about, and tells me Jawa Junk drops from Cartel (gambling) packs, which I also already knew.

 

However, the question that I asked was: What is the name of the pack from which people are obtaining these mass quantities of Jawa Junk?

 

I have to assume it's not the gambling packs (as in the most recent Constable's Stronghold Pack) because I can do basic math. Therefore, I have to assume that there is another one with which I am unfamiliar.

 

So... educate me, Swami, please! What is the name of the pack with Jawa Junk you're using as the basis for your "Crafting is P2W Conquest" argument?

 

You don't even need the jawa junk. Buy Hypercrates, Sell Packs, get enough credits to buy ALOT of mats, even at inflated prices.

 

Right now the least expensive pack on the GTN is 200k, x 24 in a crate = 4.8 million credits. Mats are selling for, on average, about 150k per stack at even the most high demand. So, worst case, that gives you enough credits to buy about 32 stacks of materials, which translates to about 130 war supplies, plus about 25 invasion forces. And last week with 100% conquest bonus that equaled about 230,000 conquest points. So, with a little lead time 4 people willing to spend $40 will add about 1 million pts to your total. Now, what if you have 10 people willing to do so, or 10 people willing to spend $120? If you think there aren't people willing to spend that, or even much, much more, take a look at this article I posted a while back:

 

http://www.wired.com/2012/11/meet-the-whales/all/