How come I'm seeing so many Mara's with Power augments?

[Scarab_]

I thought the advantage of Strength aug's was that they would boost crit and power, thereby making up for any lost crit if you swap out all the mods on your gear. Since I've already done that (pretty sure I have almost no crit on my gear), I thought strength aug's were the logical choice. But lately I'm seeing most Mara's with total Overkill augs on every piece. Is crit really that worthless? Or am I not understanding how Strength boosts seconday stats...

 

In any case should I swap all out my might augs for power instead? Would it hurt me if I kept the artifact-level might ones I have, and concentreted on power for any new pieces - like a half and half mix?

 

Any clarification on this point would be much appreciated. Thanks.

 

I should say I'm mostly referring to PvP gear here. And I typically prefer Carnage in PvP, but i use Anni occasionally, if that makes any difference.

[mandoforlife]

This is a long debated argument. At the end of the day, you're going to have people stand by one or the other out of sheer preference. I'm a guy that likes his crits, so Strength calls to me. But since maras lack any strength percentage increase in their skill trees, power is a much more appealing option. My main is a Merc, and it's a standard no-brainer to run Aim augments because we have a 9% Aim increase in our tree. When any class lacks that, the lines are blurred

 

 

Anyways, to get to the point, I believe that it was proven that power augments are better than strength for mara for pure DPS numbers. But keep in mind, that advantage is such a slight number that you'd never notice it. Just go with your preference, I'd say.

[XeniusX]

Yep Power augments all the way, in fact power all the way. You can get a few acc enh for QoL but otherwise Power and Surge is your recipe for carnage.

 

Annihilation is benefitted a little from a bit crit i believe but ive never done any extensive testing on it since i don't play the spec.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

IMO, It's a waste of main-stat to go with Overkill augments. Stick with Might Augments. Even though we dont have a Strength % booster (which should be added... every other class has a % boost to their main stat except Mara's and Sin's Bioware Y u no do it?) Strength benefits Power and Crit, and I like my VT Crits, and my Massacre Crits. because on my old mara, Massacre would crit for 3k+ and VT crits were in the 7.5k range, so yea if you like to have a higher chance at critting go for Main Stat, if you could care less about high numbers on your non auto-crit skills, go Overkill.

[XeniusX]

IMO, It's a waste of main-stat to go with Overkill augments. Stick with Might Augments. Even though we dont have a Strength % booster (which should be added... every other class has a % boost to their main stat except Mara's and Sin's Bioware Y u no do it?) Strength benefits Power and Crit, and I like my VT Crits, and my Massacre Crits. because on my old mara, Massacre would crit for 3k+ and VT crits were in the 7.5k range, so yea if you like to have a higher chance at critting go for Main Stat, if you could care less about high numbers on your non auto-crit skills, go Overkill.

 

 

But thats exactly the point isn't it. You have auto crits, and the better you can benefit from the autocrit the better. RNG around crits should never be a goal (just look at Operative who heavily relies on crits to be effective dps). The more reliable your burst can be the better. A good pvp'er knows this.

 

In proper pvp matches there will always be a deadline, if you incapasitates healer/tank or whatever to get a kill elsewhere then it would suck if you were to relie on your attacks critting to successfully pull the kill wouldn't it.

 

It's all about consistency and getting that burst to hit as hard as possible (aka auto crit scream in carnage).

However if the spec you are playing consists of no auto crits then having 22-24 % crit might be a good idea (like in annihilation spec).

 

PS: i actually crit quite often on VT and im full power.

 

PPS: The dmg difference in a WZ wont change much but the reliability of your dps will.

[Memo-]

But thats exactly the point isn't it. You have auto crits, and the better you can benefit from the autocrit the better. RNG around crits should never be a goal (just look at Operative who heavily relies on crits to be effective dps). The more reliable your burst can be the better. A good pvp'er knows this.

 

In proper pvp matches there will always be a deadline, if you incapasitates healer/tank or whatever to get a kill elsewhere then it would suck if you were to relie on your attacks critting to successfully pull the kill wouldn't it.

 

It's all about consistency and getting that burst to hit as hard as possible (aka auto crit scream in carnage).

However if the spec you are playing consists of no auto crits then having 22-24 % crit might be a good idea (like in annihilation spec).

 

PS: i actually crit quite often on VT and im full power.

 

PPS: The dmg difference in a WZ wont change much but the reliability of your dps will.

 

Remember to take the Inquisitor/Consular buff into account. Sentinels DO get 5% more strength. With that, the amount of bonus damage per point of Strength in your gear rises to 0,21 instead of 0,2, so the difference to Power is already smaller (Power gives 0,23 per point).

Edited September 28, 2014 by Memo-

[xxSHOONYxx]

I believe (at least back in 2.6) according to this and KBN's old combat/carnage guide, the difference is tiny with the slight edge given to strength (by like 4 dps).

 

The other thing to consider is that if your other abilities have surge multipliers (like massacre) then it is also beneficial to take come crit so that you get the full advantage of said bonuses. (Although this is more prevalent for assassins who also don't have the main stat bonus skill)

[XeniusX]

Remember to take the Inquisitor/Consular buff into account. Sentinels DO get 5% more strength. With that, the amount of bonus damage per point of Strength in your gear rises to 0,21 instead of 0,2, so the difference to Power is already smaller (Power gives 0,23 per point).

 

Yes, the difference is not big, you won't see a min/maxed power outperform min/max strength by a huge margin if similar skill.

 

The important factors are still: skill > augments > 2018 exp > min/max gear > datacrons

[TACeMossie]

I believe (at least back in 2.6) according to this and KBN's old combat/carnage guide, the difference is tiny with the slight edge given to strength (by like 4 dps).

 

The other thing to consider is that if your other abilities have surge multipliers (like massacre) then it is also beneficial to take come crit so that you get the full advantage of said bonuses. (Although this is more prevalent for assassins who also don't have the main stat bonus skill)

 

I think its safe to say the surge bonus on massacre is overshadowed by the auto crit + surge bonus on Force Scream here. Now if Carnage also had surge on, say, Gore + Vicious Throw, then crit would be more useful for it (similar to how Annihilation has bonus surge on annihilate, but also has the extra rage generation on crits, so it is likely to grab some crit for this)

 

It's all about consistency and getting that burst to hit as hard as possible (aka auto crit scream in carnage).

However if the spec you are playing consists of no auto crits then having 22-24 % crit might be a good idea (like in annihilation spec).

 

Annihilation has an auto-crit on 6 bleeds every ~25 seconds (this number is a random guess based off the fact that when you use it, it lasts 4 GCDs then you have to build it up again, which takes ~10 GCDs, then people like to hold it off till 3 stacks of deadly saber again, which is another few GCDs, and then lag for the last bit. If we are going solely by using it on cooldown, its closer to 18/19.5 seconds)

Edited September 29, 2014 by TACeMossie

[XeniusX]

Annihilation has an auto-crit on 6 bleeds every ~25 seconds

 

Indeed, for some reason i forgot about berserk in Juyo form:p Been a while since i last played anni.

[Raansu]

Mmm honestly the difference is pretty minimal. I used to run all power augments but I mostly play carnage and annihilation so I'd rather have the boost to mainstat and get a little bit of crit out of it. Back when smash was still a thing all power augments was the way to go, but really now its just a preference. Both work well enough and you're not really losing anything using one or the other outside of you might just crit a little less in carnage spec with VT and ravage though its only minor. I think its like just a little bit over 1% extra crit with might augments.

[AngusFTW]

I go str augments cause i prefer the small bit of extra crit chance to the very small amount of bonus dmg provided by power augments. The bonus dmg difference is very small... i hit 10-11k almost every wz with str augments...

 

I also have the biggest hit currently recorded for tofn on http://tofn.rl-web.net/ in a wz @ 14.8k master strike last tick. While this means nothing except that i found a lovely pve geared sorc and popped everything and had expertise buff. The fact i had strength augments and not power augments didn't stop this from happening so i thought i'd throw that out there Maybe if i had power it could have been 14.9 or 15k at a push.. but it also might not have crit cause of that 1% rng you know xD

 

Also I realise people have done bigger probably even on tofn but they don't know about the site, i'm mainly just using it an example xD

Edited September 30, 2014 by AngusFTW

[Sarafain]

I was under the assumption that Strength augments didn't correctly apply the crit bonus to force attacks.

 

SO for force heavy spec's anni/watchmen and Rage/Focus Power won out. Carnage/Combat used Strength because they mainly use melee attacks and FS/BS auto-crits.

 

Even with that in mind we're talking about an almost unnoticable amount.

[KeyboardNinja]

Strength does affect force crit. They fixed that a long, LONG time ago.

 

So, might augments are better (particularly for Rage), but the difference is miniscule and the variance in your DPS will be higher. For that reason, it can be argued that overkill augments are practically better, since might augments produce insignificantly more DPS but result in less reliability.

[cs_zoltan]

I also have the biggest hit currently recorded for tofn on http://tofn.rl-web.net/ in a wz @ 14.8k master strike last tick.

 

And I have the biggest on TRE *Highfive*

[AngusFTW]

And I have the biggest on TRE *Highfive*

<tunnel vision pvers> forum guild activiated

Edited October 1, 2014 by AngusFTW

[Mordacia]

This argument went long and hard through my guilds Mara population. Power or Strength? In the end it's almost a personal preference. In my PvE gear I run strength, in PvP I run power. In my imagination, and possibly reality running the strength with the extra bit of crit is a bonus when a fight last longer than 5-6 GCDs. Where as in PvP the raw power boost might benefit over the short duration of most engagements. In the end the difference between power and strength augments are almost minuscule. I believe when I did the math back in 2.4ish it was a loss of like 9.1 bonus damage at the acquisition of 1% crit. So in the end it's almost always a personal preference.

[Scarab_]

Thanks to all who helped me try to figure this out.

 

I found these articles particularly helpful.

http://dulfy.net/category/swtor/theorycrafting/

There a bit of a read, and not for those who don't like math, but quite thorough.

 

I personally decided to stick with strength. Mostly because, as most of you have pointed out, it really doesn't make much difference. It's nice to actually KNOW that however rather than just base on hearsay.

[Scarab_]

 

I also have the biggest hit currently recorded for tofn on http://tofn.rl-web.net/ in a wz @ 14.8k master strike last tick. While this means nothing except that i found a lovely pve geared sorc and popped everything and had expertise buff.

 

Angus that's still pretty nuts! I'm guessing there was an attack adrenal in there too? I would like to see how you were geared when you did that.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Scarab_

[AngusFTW]

it was full brutaliser min/max with strength augments, basic stuff. 0 crit rating. Expertise buff from spawn in voidstar + inspiration. Sorc was pve geared but not greatly pve geared actually.. the guy with 34kish so im guessing underworld/180 mix i guess.. would'ave been higher if the guy had nightmare things

[Scarab_]

Interesting. I too am min/maxed +0 crit / All power, with ranked mods. I don't have all the brutalizer shells yet tho (ranked almost never pop on my server).

 

You use Brut Sabers? I remember reading in this thread that PvP weapons are not BiS in a WZ. IDK if that's still true, but if so, sorta drives me crazy. I've yet to experiment with PvE sabers myself.

 

I do know a Mara on my server with all brut, str augs etc, but he's actually got a lot of crit NOT power (over 30% with buffs). Seems contrary to how most gear but he hits HARD> especially with his throws; VT's are nasty with his build. As such he's awfully mean to those squishy classes that try run away, whereas I mostly take advantage of slaughter/VT for the rage refund as it just doesn't hit that hard for me.

[Ld-Siris]

Screw all that go alacrity augs and vice surge.

 

On the real tho... I prefer might for 2 reasons. Maras don't get a main stat or crit talent. Because of this maras have unnaturally low crit compared to other classes. I have run with both might and power augments and I found that might is the way to go, imo.