The balance in Starfighter is way off.

[Rothnang]

I've tried Starfighter for the first time today, and in about 20 matches I've seen a pretty clear trend, certain builds are just obscenely overpowered.

 

Particularly what I've seen top the scoreboard over and over and over was scout ships with multiple damage boosts stacked that can simply afterburn to their target, unload a volley of lasers and kill any ship in under a second that way, then run away again and wait for their cooldowns to come back up to do it again.

 

I mean seriously, who thought this was a good idea? There is no effective counterplay to this kind of thing, not even the people doing this stuff can effectively defend against it, it just comes down to who has cooldowns up and who shoots first.

 

 

 

Also... gosh darn it Bioware, why can't I fly around with those really awesome looking spaceships that just sit in the hangarbay and have to use these meh starfighters instead?

Edited September 28, 2014 by Rothnang

[Bereduss]

I mean seriously, who thought this was a good idea? There is no effective counterplay to this kind of thing, not even the people doing this stuff can effectively defend against it, it just comes down to who has cooldowns up and who shoots first.

 

I hear mines and railguns work wonders against those marauding cattlescouts

[Rothnang]

Except the scout can afterburn to you and blow you away before your railgun even charges, and that is if he comes straight for you, which should be the worst thing to do against a railgun.

[jankiel]

Practice, a good gunsheep or bomber can toast scouts easily. It's not like that scouts are invincible. I know I am not Edited September 28, 2014 by jankiel

[Rothnang]

It's still utterly insane to have ships that can kill others in just a second when most ships take easily ten times as long. Charging a railgun or locking on a missile that does around 1000 damage takes twice as long as just flat out killing someone does for those ships. It's simply broken.

[PavSalco]

It's still utterly insane to have ships that can kill others in just a second when most ships take easily ten times as long. Charging a railgun or locking on a missile that does around 1000 damage takes twice as long as just flat out killing someone does for those ships. It's simply broken.

Scouts need to be in 5000 radius to do that while gunships can kill them in two shots from 15k. Do you see the difference? It's all balanced.

 

If you can't destroy a scout solo, then ask someone to help you. A pair of bomber and gunship is deadly to scouts.

Edited September 28, 2014 by PavSalco

[Verain]

Alright, a good scout cry thread! It's been a little while since one of these.

 

 

First, you'll be pleased to know that the idea that scout burst is overpowered is shared by: almost the entire GSF community, the GSF devs.

 

We've had several discussions on this, and there's several threads. Different players are in favor of different changes, of course, and whatever the devs eventually get to will probably match none of those suggestions.

 

Second, your hyperbole definitely goes too far. The game is not in as bad shape as you think, and there's plenty of game to play besides scouts. If you are this upset now, the issue is mostly a lack of experience- even a slightly nerfed (aka, fair) scout setup would probably not make you happy in your current state.

 

I've tried Starfighter for the first time today, and in about 20 matches I've seen a pretty clear trend, certain builds are just obscenely overpowered.

 

Welcome to GSF! I suggest you check out the Stasiependium:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=729222

 

For good builds and some discussion.

 

Particularly what I've seen top the scoreboard over and over and over was scout ships with multiple damage boosts stacked that can simply afterburn to their target, unload a volley of lasers and kill any ship in under a second that way, then run away again and wait for their cooldowns to come back up to do it again.

 

That's one of many effective tactics in GSF. Scouts have a design where they have extremely powerful defensive and offensive cooldowns, and are capable of bursting down less evasive ships. But, they do have many weaknesses, which you can seek to exploit.

 

First, scouts need to be close in order to hurt you. As you play more, you will have much better situational awareness. This will make you know about scouts when they are very far away and getting closer, and will also help with another ambush style threat that destroys new players, gunships. Experience will really help a lot, as you will be tabbing around possible targets much more than you do now.

 

When a scout is coming close to you with afterburners and popping cooldowns:

1- Use your own afterburners. You don't have as long of a burn as them, but you have more than enough to waste their offensive cooldowns.

2- TURN SHARPLY and do not be predictable! Remember your ship pitches (up/down) much faster than it yaws (left/right), and that rolling is fast and free, allowing you to change your direction often. A scout needs a mostly stationary target for those scary burst kills to line up.

3- Use line of sight. A scout is better equipped than anyone to run around a rock quickly, but that still greatly lowers their time spent on target.

4- The scout burst game is a fast-speed game. Change the clock by using these tactics or others designed to provide the scout very few windows of opportunity and you will find allies switching to the scout, and the scout's cooldows won't be up for as much of the combat as prior.

5- Consider a type 1 bomber (Rampart, Razorwire) or a type 3 bomber (Sledgehammer, Decimus). The first is a solid choice at hugging a node, and scouts simply can't do much, especially if you have a charged plating build. The second is a dogfighter, but the ability to drop concussion mines means that a scout can't just live on your tail. These ships aren't the only way of playing with and against scouts- gunships can be effective at range but need to run when the scout is close, etc- but if you are being frustrated by them, they offer a role that lets you minimize them.

 

When a scout is attacking an ALLY, popping cooldowns:

Normally the scout will approach a slower target without an engine maneuver remaining, pop cooldowns (which you can hear if you are close enough), and fly reasonably level for more than a second. You can really damage a scout in this window.

1- If you are a gunship and you see a scout approaching an ally, try to land either an ion or a slug. Use Wingman to help you land the shot. This can destroy a weakened scout, or leave a scout so injured as to be unable to play aggressively until their respawn. Once you have a mastered ion railgun, and if there is a group of enemies, consider ionning a non-scout so that the scout will take shield damage, lose some blaster and engine power, and will have to deal with the railgun animation, which could make him break off. Guard your allies carefully and scout burst cycles can be disrupted.

2- If you are a scout yourself, look for scouts doing this. Pop wingman if available and begin firing lasers. The scout will have to be stationary, and you can make yourself unignorable. If you have something like targeting telemetry, that will help massively as well. Clusters are better than pods against enemy scouts.

3- If you are a strike fighter, this is a great time to begin locking a missile and attacking with lasers. If the scout doesn't break off his assault, you can either launch the missile when it is available (recommended for clusters) or hold it while continuing to shoot (recommended for concussions). You can boost up to nearly point blank and release the concussion as well (the flight time will be so short that he may take the concussion, which can be fatal). A scout badly needs his distortion to break the missile, so consider holding the tone on him while you kill him with lasers.

4- Tell your allies to try to fly evasively and not joust pilots X....Z. Many times the deaths to scouts are newer or brash players who don't "slow the game clock" by playing evasive, instead deciding to head to head a craft with powerful defensive and offensive cooldowns active, resulting in a very uneven fight. They don't have to sit there and make that deal, you can talk them out of it.

 

 

I mean seriously, who thought this was a good idea? There is no effective counterplay to this kind of thing, not even the people doing this stuff can effectively defend against it, it just comes down to who has cooldowns up and who shoots first.

 

This is you being a fresh player talking. There are plenty of effective plays in this situation. GSF is far deeper than "who has cooldowns up and who shoots first", and I say this with thousands of games, not dozens.

 

 

Also... gosh darn it Bioware, why can't I fly around with those really awesome looking spaceships that just sit in the hangarbay and have to use these meh starfighters instead?

 

Those ships are halfway to capital ships. They aren't as maneuverable as starfighters, and are for a different role. They would be too large in GSF. Lorewise, the capital ships that are fighting by proxy through us would be able to target them directly, I think.

 

That being said, the class ships are so iconic and cool that they are probably at least thinking about something.

 

 

It's still utterly insane to have ships that can kill others in just a second when most ships take easily ten times as long. Charging a railgun or locking on a missile that does around 1000 damage takes twice as long as just flat out killing someone does for those ships. It's simply broken.

 

It actually is broken. But not as much as you think, nowhere close. It is very possible to control the pace of game with evasive flying. Practice that and you'll see a lot fewer sudden deaths to scouts. Scouts give many warnings before they are able to do something really wild, like chain crit with quads and pods.

 

 

 

Also, a scout can't really close in on a gunship as fast as you think. If the gunship charges a mastered ion at 15k and the scout races right towards you, simply release with a fractional charge and wingman. It's not guaranteed, but if it hits you have placed a 12 second massive snare on them, and drained some resource. Then switch to slug or run, depending. Either way, the game is now much slower than it was before, and allies can respond to the snared scout in the middle of their space.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Verain

[Rothnang]

Scouts need to be in 5000 radius to do that while gunships can kill them in two shots from 15k. Do you see the difference? It's all balanced.

 

This matters how in a game where you can travel 10000 meters in mere seconds? It's not like the gunship can kite the scout around by burning backwards.

 

That being said, the class ships are so iconic and cool that they are probably at least thinking about something.

 

Yea, those are the ones I mean. It just totally makes me cry that GSF is everything that I wanted to be able to do with my awesome Jedi ship except with some really goofy looking fighters that just really aren't anywhere near as ****** looking as the class ships.

 

Also, a scout can't really close in on a gunship as fast as you think. If the gunship charges a mastered ion at 15k and the scout races right towards you, simply release with a fractional charge and wingman. It's not guaranteed, but if it hits you have placed a 12 second massive snare on them, and drained some resource.

 

Yea, working on unlocking the fully powered ion cannon.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Rothnang

[zaskar]

It's Galactic STARFIGHTER not light corvette or troop bus or light freighter.

 

So, we have 2400 words in this thread saying one thing, learn to play.

 

1. Bombers kill scouts with their loadout.

2. Gunships are constantly moving, even while firing, at least good ones are.

3. Strikes can shrug off the lasers (if built right) and soak some of the missiles/rockets

4. Scouts are the worst at killing other scouts. They need to get angle and hope they can keep up.

[Melkorjrrt]

there is no defense against it, if your solo, YOU SHOULD NOT need help, no ship be all powerful verse all other ships unless you play that same ship with the same specs, all this garage everyone post after this first post, is garage, you don't know what your talking about, i have nearly 1000 matches under my belt, my main is gunship, it again it does not matter which ship you use, there is no way to out DPS them, no defense again it, even bomber armor is toilet paper verse it, no way to out run or out turn a scout. i simply write the player name using a know game exploit and report them. AND YES IT IS AN EXPLOIT, using game mechanics that are broke to have unfair advenge verse the game or player is exploit, 10+ years of mmorpg, prove me wrong, not possible in this case. read the data, test it for yourself, REALLY TEST IT. It simply destroying GSF atm, everyone is running with the exploit, because they want an easy win. and NO, it does not have anything to with skill.

 

PS i would advise you NOT to attack my writing, i am dyslexia, and there are game rules for attacking a player with disabilities, i have no patience for it.

[BrianDavion]

I just wish they'd buff strikes. right now IMHO thats the biggest problem with GSF

[AlrikFassbauer]

A few days ago I was attacked by a Scout.

 

Apart fro the insanely precise hits, it took him or her only 4 or so hits until my ship was destroyed. I had never seen such a rapid destruction before, and no, I wasn't flying a Scout myself. I think it was either a Gunship (those with the long single cannon), or a strike fighter.

 

That stopped me from playing GSF for the rest of that evening.

[Verain]

You are seeing a high burst build, such as quads and pods, combined with a damage cooldown, likely targeting telemetry.

 

 

This is a bit overtuned, but you shouldn't need to stop playing. Remember:

 

1)- When a scout is nearby and pops cooldowns, it makes distinctive noises. A scout can pop cooldowns from outside audible range, but he will use up much of his time for that.

2)- When a scout is doing this, cease attempts to joust him, and any other attempts that involve flying level (for instance, trying to finish off another opponent). You must rapidly and inconsistently vary your angle from the scout and also your distance.

3)- If possible, you can prevent this from catching you unawares by better situational awareness. If you didn't know a scout was there, that was definitely your own fault. Scouts are fast, but they cannot stealth. By using the quick look mouse binds (if you don't use these, please look under GSF keys and find them there) you can become much more aware of your surroundings. You can also use tab to cycle attackers with a low period- you'll see the scout on approach much of the time.

4)- Movement is your only real defense here, you cannot be under a bead. But note also that moves such as charged plating, distortion field, and running interference all provide reasonable and good defenses.

5)- Consider using an engine maneuver. This can rapidly move you, as well as giving you a bit of defenses.

6)- Consider hiding line of sight, often after using an engine maneuver.

 

 

 

The damage is probably a bit higher than it should be, but it's not THAT much higher. Scouts have to pay a lot of "cost" to get into that position, and that can be punished.

[MiaowZedong]

The damage is probably a bit higher than it should be, but it's not THAT much higher. Scouts have to pay a lot of "cost" to get into that position, and that can be punished.

 

Contrary to many, I don't think there's anything wrong with the damage. In fact, that is, IMO, the least problematic part of scouts if taken individually, because all sorts of weapon loadouts will achieve comparable burst damage: ions and QLC, ions and HLC, mines stacked on each other, slug railguns...High burst seems a general feature of GSF. Now in the case of scouts, they are much more mobile than other ships and they have more survivability (except against mines and drones) than other ships. This aren't areas where scouts are "just" on par with the best, but where they are the best and others are not as good. Obviously the scout cannot be allowed to excel in the three areas of mobility, survivability and damage. Reducing its damage (which would, to be honest, make it the least lethal class) is definitely an acceptable situation, from a balance standpoint; but in my opinion, creating a very survivable, fast ship with low damage would be lame. Chasing scouts is already lame and unfun as it is, making them specialised in running away would just make that even more annoying (for me, at least). I'd rather take away most or all of their survivability, make them depend on player skill to live (which, given how fast and agile they are, would still leave them formidable in the hands of an ace).

Edited October 15, 2014 by MiaowZedong

[Verain]

I would generally say that the forums are mostly in agreement that scouts should get a bit of a nerf. But I will point out that HOW scouts should be nerfed is all over the board, and also all over the board is what other adjustments would be needed (aka, scouts nerfed all by itself could leave the type 1 gunship too dominant). The last time we even touched on it, we had guys saying stuff like:

 

"The scout should be mobile and evasive, not have burst damage."

"The scout should be mobile and have great burst, but not be so strong if focused"

"The scout should not have as large of an engine pool."

 

I'm paraphrasing, but the point is that by virtue of being A,B,C,D, and E, and ALSO too strong, the only parts everyone agrees about is that. One guy rolled his scout because he values A, B, and C. Another picks things that are C,D,and E. At most, players agree that scouts shouldn't be reduced in speed. I think I've seen every other nerf proposed.

 

 

And *I* have an opinion too, which shouldn't be shocking, because I have a bunch of opinions.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=750518

 

Along with the more refined suggestions in:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=752949

 

 

 

 

 

More importantly, the balance in GSF isn't so wrecked that the game is unplayable. I have to deal with Scrabs and Strixes and other high damage scout builds wielded by extremely strong players, while in a gunship or bomber sometimes, after all, and those classes still have important jobs and are capable of defensive flight.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Verain

[Asbetos]

ions and QLC, ions and HLC, mines stacked on each other, slug railguns.

 

Neither of those comes even close to the burst that the scout can deal.

 

Bit of math (done plenty of times by many people, but some obviously still don't know), will assume all the damage goes to shields, should be enough to prove the point:

 

T2 Scout - Burst Laser Cannon + Cluster Missile + Targeting Telemetry + Damage Capacitor

Time: 1.3sec (Lock-on time of mastered Cluster Missile)

Range: 500-3000m (mid-range for Burst Laser Cannon)

Burst Laser Cannon damage (T4 ignore armor, T5 shield damage increase)

Shields: 846 (1480)

Hull: 719 (1258)

Cluster Missile damage (T5 double volley)

2*443 (775) out of which 54 (95) to hull regardless of shields

 

Total damage done

Nothing crits: 2*846 + 683 = 2375

Both BLC shots crit: 2*1480 + 2*443 = 3846

Both Cluster volleys crit: 2*846 + 2*775 = 3242

Everything crits: 2*1480 + 2*775 = 4510

 

T1 Gunship - Slug Railgun

Time: 2.7sec (charge time of mastered Slug Railgun)

Range: not important for raw damage without accuracy

 

Total damage and Slug Railgun damage (T4 accuracy increase+tracking reduction, T5 crit)

1600 (2400)

 

 

So, bottom line is that a slug crit does roughly the same amount of damage in double the time a scout deals out if none of his 4 hits crit.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Asbetos

[MiaowZedong]

Neither of those comes even close to the burst that the scout can deal.

 

Bit of math (done plenty of times by many people, but some obviously still don't know), will assume all the damage goes to shields, should be enough to prove the point:

 

T2 Scout - Burst Laser Cannon + Cluster Missile + Targeting Telemetry + Damage Capacitor

Time: 1.3sec (Lock-on time of mastered Cluster Missile)

Range: 500-3000m (mid-range for Burst Laser Cannon)

Burst Laser Cannon damage (T4 ignore armor, T5 shield damage increase)

Shields: 846 (1480)

Hull: 719 (1258)

Cluster Missile damage (T5 double volley)

2*443 (775) out of which 54 (95) to hull regardless of shields

 

Total damage done

Nothing crits: 2*846 + 683 = 2375

Both BLC shots crit: 2*1480 + 2*443 = 3846

Both Cluster volleys crit: 2*846 + 2*775 = 3242

Everything crits: 2*1480 + 2*775 = 4510

 

T1 Gunship - Slug Railgun

Time: 2.7sec (charge time of mastered Slug Railgun)

Range: not important for raw damage without accuracy

 

Total damage and Slug Railgun damage (T4 accuracy increase+tracking reduction, T5 crit)

1600 (2400)

 

 

So, bottom line is that a slug crit does roughly the same amount of damage in double the time a scout deals out if none of his 4 hits crit.

So many apples to oranges comparisons here.

 

For starters, you're assuming that cluster missiles have no flight time and that the first lock on will hit, which essentially never happens against a competent player. How long does it take to get him to waste his missile break? And if he has two, not every scout pilot can land a cluster. I've had not-so-great battlescout pilots fail to ever land a cluster pretty much indefinitely against the Power Dive + DF on my Condor.

 

Those are big factors in giving rocket pods the edge over clusters, for fast time to kill at least.

 

Secondly, you're comparing burst laser damage at 500m (not 500 to 3,000, it interpolates damage linearly between the points) with railgun damage at 15,000m. While the scout is fast and agile, it's still alot easier and more common to get the gunship into its firing position.

 

Thirdly, you're comparing time from the moment you start sounding a very audible alarm in your target's ears from 500m away to time from the moment you silently start charging a railgun, often with no clue at all for your target, and up to 15,000m away. Again, a reason why you see the Scrabs and Yuukos running with pods.

 

Oh, and fourthly, you're counting cooldowns against passives only. Sure, TT adds more punch (and so can copilot abilities like CF); but that railgun has a very real crit chance 100% of the time.

 

And fifthly, you counted bast cluster damage and not double clusters for your non-crit scenario

 

Finally, some more maths for you, with the same point-blank 1.3 seconds period and without using cooldowns:

 

 

Ion Cannons (T5 Drain Shield Power):

Shield Damage: 649 + 40 per shot

Hull Damage: 81 per shot (+40 damage to opposing shield arc)

 

Quad Laser Cannons(T4 Increased Critical Chance, T5 Increased Hull Damage):

Shield Damage: 365 per shot (8% chance of 548)

Hull Damage: 424 per shot (8% chance of 636)

 

Cluster Missiles:

2*443, same as above.

 

Total:

Primary weapons, no crits: 2226

Primary weapons, a QLC shot crits: 2438

Primary weapons, both QLC shots crit: 2650

Secondary weapon, if not broken: 886

 

Note that if the target is a scout and all shots are hitting, the secondary weapon is irrelevant—the primary weapon damage alone is a kill. That's true in theory and verified a few times in practice (on bad scouts, but we're comparing damage numbers on bad/surprised players here anyway). It's also very significant because if you're shooting at a scout, he's probably got at least one of his missile breaks available.

 

Note that in the most common situations of no crits or a single crit, the T1 strike is actually doing more damage in its 1.3 seconds burst. The T2 scout can outdamage it but requires both using cooldowns and considerable luck to do so. The most common scenario gives the edge in pure damage potential to the humble T1 strike.

 

Of course, all these scenarii are very simple and don't take into account key factors, such as accuracy (and arcs and tracking), missile breaks, copilot abilities, defensive abilities, etc. The point is that the T2 scout (or scouts in general) do not have uniquely high burst damage.

 

What the scouts do have is high burst damage, combined with uniquely high mobility and survivability, combined with the best accuracy in the game (making the mathematically best counter to a scout another scout—in practice gunships also work because you can fire from ambush, before your target pops DF). And I think there's a very broad consensus that the scouts have to lose some of these things.

 

My preference is basically the second of Verain's summarised opinions—make them true glass cannons, that die easily. That's subjective though: any nerf of sufficient magnitude would bring them in line with most ships, regardless of which scout strength is being nerfed.

 

In an ideal world the game would have a bit more depth and they'd be more useful for scouting and utility instead of impinging on the role of strike fighters, but I don't think that's going to happen.

Edited October 16, 2014 by MiaowZedong

[AlrikFassbauer]

You are seeing a high burst build,

 

Like in ground PvP, where burst is king.

 

 

1)- When a scout is nearby and pops cooldowns, it makes distinctive noises. A scout can pop cooldowns from outside audible range, but he will use up much of his time for that.

 

Sorry, but I cannot hear ANYTHING from within GSF: I still play SWTOR with Windows XP, simply because I just cannot afford Windows 7 yet (and I need new hardware for that anyway),

and this bug has has been reported several times - with Bioware doing nothing against it : Under Windows XP, GSF is completely silent.

And I'm not the only one who had reported this problem.

 

 

And, besides, why am I not able to do the same damage than those who constantly "kill" me ? I often wonder. But that's a question I always wonder in ground PvP as well - where I at least partially understood the mechanisms standing behind that ...

[Bolo_Yeung]

Ok... another 'scout vs gunship' thread...

 

Well, scouts are strong - but the author of this thread does not mention gunships (so I assume he's flying one). Yet on records table:http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=764654 first places on 'total kills; are ... gunships.

Sure, assuming newb team with 1 'ace' against total newb team, scout will probably score better due to high mobility. (but again in those matches you can get 20+ kills in a stock strike) In serious matches though, nothing can beat gunship wall... except premade with voice comm.

 

Seriously, the only one underpowered class in GSF is the strike class - it need at least Distiortion Field as an option.

[Kcin_Trebla]

I don't know what to think...

I'm not really a top-notch-pilot, never even thought to try playing better 'cause the GSF-mini-game doesn't deserve so much imo. Anyway...

I Always score 3-4 kills and 1-3 deaths when I'm on my Scouts and Strikers, I know there are several pilots caring more for it that with the same ships easily score x3 kills compared to me.

But when I jump in my Gunship and/or Bomber (even in T1s with barely basic upgrades)... poof! I can score 12 kills and 1-3 deaths.

And this happens even in the same match, if I switch ships.

That's not really skill, it's just equipment I guess.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Kcin_Trebla

[Verain]

Like in ground PvP, where burst is king.

 

Burst damage has (and should have) a role in all PvP. But while it is a bit overtuned, I would not say it is "king" here. Other ships still have very valuable roles, and, as I gave above, many techniques available for mitigation.

 

Sorry, but I cannot hear ANYTHING from within GSF: I still play SWTOR with Windows XP, simply because I just cannot afford Windows 7 yet (and I need new hardware for that anyway),

 

This bug (which is 100% a Windows XP bug) will not be fixed as it should be (by Microsoft). Nor will a workaround be patched into GSF (though it has been on their "known issues" list since October 2013, one year ago), because XP is too old and it's probably a really hard workaround.

 

You simply need to get a copy of Windows 7, and since Windows 7 runs comfortably on machines from 2006, I would say that the odds that you are able to run reasonable well in SWTOR and GSF are very low. What is your GSF framerate?

 

I hate to say "you are running unsupported software, upgrade or die", but that is the actual truth. GSF has the following bugs right now:

 

> Ion Missile nerfed no patch notes (might not be bug)

> Ion Railgun tooltip and in game differ (snare duration)

> Sab probe "engine speed reduction" talent breaks sab probe completely.

> EMP field tooltip and in game differ (radius)

> Interdiction Missile snare is bugged or never works (unsure on details)

> Interdiction Drive can sometimes not effect targets that it should (unsure on details, hard to test)

> EMP missile deals partial damage

> Plasma and Slug railgun do not interact properly when switched (railgun arc seems to be the smaller slug one for both)

> Railgun arc can snap to the larger primary weapon arc under some circumstances, such as copilot ability use.

> Game sometimes becomes the butthole of satan, where no objective points are scored, the game never times out, and it is the only GSF game on server. Fixed by server reset when maintenance gets around to it.

> Multiple tooltips (plasma railgun, sabotage probe, others) have broken durations or magnitudes, resulting from invalid characters in the source XML. This was patched in once and has been broken ever since, with values such as "6" being written as "<<1", though their behavior ingame is unchanged.

> Firing arc unclear.

> Range at which debuffs appear is arbitrary and seems bugged. Sometimes debuffs will not appear when you apply them at 3km, other times you will see them much further off. Unlikely that this is WAI.

> Cartel ship icons do not change when switching weapons, making it impossible to discern which weapon is active.

 

Most of these bugs would take very little time to fix. Many of them are in the XML, and many of them have a serious effect on ALL players, not just some tiny minority using a deprecated operating system that is a massive security problem to any user.

 

 

This is on top of balance tweaks that have a lot of support and such.

 

 

So they don't have budget to work much on GSF, so the odds of them fixing the sound issue are small.

 

 

 

 

In fact, right here, anything you say about burst, balance, and the game is utterly invalid, because the game is not designed to be played with no sound. Many of the alerts are audible, and the response time is much faster with that. You have no idea what's going on in the game world, so of course you are getting ripped apart. That's not a scout issue, that's a YOU issue.

 

 

And, besides, why am I not able to do the same damage than those who constantly "kill" me ? I often wonder.

 

Post a fraps on youtube and you'll be told right away. You can view Drako or Scrab on a scout as well and see if you have the correct power settings, etc. You are probably doing so much wrong that it would be faster to give us the youtube, however.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

Reducing its damage (which would, to be honest, make it the least lethal class) is definitely an acceptable situation, from a balance standpoint; but in my opinion, creating a very survivable, fast ship with low damage would be lame.

 

To be fair many (all?) previous Star Wars space games established the precident of the interceptor (scout) class ships as typically being one of the weakest classes in terms of damage in exchange for being unrivaled with speed/agility. Typically the multi-role (strike fighter) class had the best overall damage. Compare how A-Wings (scouts) are balanced against X-Wings (strikers) in most Star Wars games. Normally you'd find the A-Wing has weaker (but still respectable) damage compared to the X-Wing.

 

Now I think it's a bit late to make that sort of change in GSF without completely redesigning everything (in part because T2 scouts share too many blaster components with strikers) but I don't think reducing the damage of scouts by decreasing the buff provided by their system abilities would suddenly make them combat ineffective.

 

I don't think decreasing their mobility makes sense since that's kinda the whole point of their class. Which leaves defense and while I wouldn't mind if the devs decided to totally gut evasion to dramatically reduce the defenses of scouts I think it's highly unlikely at that point. (As I've said before I don't have a problem with RNG when it's part of accuracy since most FPS games do that with recoil, bullet spread, etc. but I've never liked it as a defensive stat; I'd very much be in favor of greatly reducing evasion and making moderate to significant changes to accuracy/tracking penalties to produce a similar result to what we have now). Either way I think players would probably find a reduction in damage more acceptable than having their current burst but being so defensively weak that the other ships stand a good chance of burning them down before they're in lethal weapons range (keeping in mind that they'd have to have very weak defenses to balance out the fact that once a scout is in weapons range they have both the mobility and agility to be difficult to impossible to escape).

Edited October 16, 2014 by Gavin_Kelvar

[Verain]

TI don't think decreasing their mobility makes sense since that's kinda the whole point of their class.

 

...To Gavin.

 

 

And to Verain, but NOT to everyone that plays it.

 

 

Again, if you bought a battle scout, you bought the model with the best burst, best sustained, best anti-railgun defense, best missile defense, best blaster defense, just about the best ability to boost forever, best speed, best maneuverability, and solid access to every good component.

 

Which of those did you buy it for? Or did you just buy it because it was powerful?

 

If you decide, "well, the thing where it is so defensible is strange", someone else is deciding that it needs less burst damage, and someone else thinks that it should not be able to run forever, as it is an interceptor really.

 

 

And so any nerf will take away something that someone bought it for.

 

 

In my balance threads, I do recommend that the burst come down, because it is too strong, but I don't recommend, for instance, the removal of blaster overcharge and targeting telemetry. But you know what? These systems should have never been put on a scout. Burst lasers should have never been put on a scout. Distortion should have been designed without a missile break. A heavy fighter, like a B-Wing, should be the guy with "targeting telemetry". He has a hard time keeping people under his nose, but when he can, he devastates them. He should be your "blaster overcharge" guy. The scout should have a mobility cooldown, or a defensive cooldown, or buff cooldown. He should not have a burst damage cooldown.

 

Rocket pods should never have been a thing like that. They should have been a different mechanic- say you get four rocket pods, and thy come back every fifteen seconds (you get one then). Or say they hit for triple damage, but have a firing rate that is represented by an 8 second reload time. Or anything except free second blaster with asteroid reload.

 

But it's way too late for those changes. They shouldn't be discussed like, in the same breath as "we should take away the crit magnitude boost on targeting telem, and decrease its peak output, and give a passive bonus for having it". That's not a redesign, that's a tweak. The other thing is a redesign, and it's not ok.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Verain

[Gavin_Kelvar]

...To Gavin.

 

 

And to Verain, but NOT to everyone that plays it.

 

 

Again, if you bought a battle scout, you bought the model with the best burst, best sustained, best anti-railgun defense, best missile defense, best blaster defense, just about the best ability to boost forever, best speed, best maneuverability, and solid access to every good component.

 

Which of those did you buy it for? Or did you just buy it because it was powerful?

 

If you decide, "well, the thing where it is so defensible is strange", someone else is deciding that it needs less burst damage, and someone else thinks that it should not be able to run forever, as it is an interceptor really.

 

 

And so any nerf will take away something that someone bought it for.

 

 

In my balance threads, I do recommend that the burst come down, because it is too strong, but I don't recommend, for instance, the removal of blaster overcharge and targeting telemetry. But you know what? These systems should have never been put on a scout. Burst lasers should have never been put on a scout. Distortion should have been designed without a missile break. A heavy fighter, like a B-Wing, should be the guy with "targeting telemetry". He has a hard time keeping people under his nose, but when he can, he devastates them. He should be your "blaster overcharge" guy. The scout should have a mobility cooldown, or a defensive cooldown, or buff cooldown. He should not have a burst damage cooldown.

 

Rocket pods should never have been a thing like that. They should have been a different mechanic- say you get four rocket pods, and thy come back every fifteen seconds (you get one then). Or say they hit for triple damage, but have a firing rate that is represented by an 8 second reload time. Or anything except free second blaster with asteroid reload.

 

But it's way too late for those changes. They shouldn't be discussed like, in the same breath as "we should take away the crit magnitude boost on targeting telem, and decrease its peak output, and give a passive bonus for having it". That's not a redesign, that's a tweak. The other thing is a redesign, and it's not ok.

 

All fair points. I think I'm just so used to the interceptor class of ships from other Star Wars games having speed typical of the current scout class it just seems too weird to take that away from him. But I concede that such an opinion is not unanimous.

[Ardaneb]

I'd very much be in favor of greatly reducing evasion and making moderate to significant changes to accuracy/tracking penalties to produce a similar result to what we have now.

 

I really like this suggestion of increasing tracking penalties in exchange for lower baseline evasion. The tracking system is one of the key ways that the game rewards both defensive and offensive flight skill. Merely buffing accuracy or nerfing evasion would make flight skill less important relative to clicking the reticle fast.

 

The problem with increasing tracking penalties is that it would create an even bigger gap to the new players. Perhaps, a rapid fire laser accuracy buff, could be done simultaneously.