Raansu Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Hyperbole is not helping your cause. Guardians do not have 3 lives. I just laid out the math. Did you not understand it? 63k is not 3x 32k. It's not even 2x *sigh* Ok, we totally don't see juggernauts healing themselves like crazy in pvp right now. You're right, everything is fine and dandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ld-Siris Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 And yet the class plays as intended. Constant sustainable damage that is unstoppable. They don't have the insane burst as other classes. They are a brawler class. The very name of juggernaut and guardian explains how the class is supposed to be played. If anything needs change it my be just that there DPS output needs to be knocked down a touch. I think they are in a good spot. As for ppl comparing them to marauders. That only proves that the dps out of marauders still needs to go up. Assuming equal skill the should be able to kill each other 50% of the time. Maras high damage to overcome the juggs def and the juggs dmg is medium to kill the squishy mara. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 I like the idea of putting a minimum damage requirement to proc ED. It actually adds counter play to ED by allowing intelligent players to keep their stronger abilities, but continue doing damage without triggering the ED effects through basic attacks, resource builders, and DoTs. If the minimum damage threshold scaled, then the user of ED would still get benefit from low level attacks at the start, so they get some health back, but wouldn't continue healing all the way to full off a long term DoT or something. If the user of ED has a healer, they will have an easier time topping them off since the enemy can't use any hard hitting abilities without triggering ED ticks and doing the healing themselves. that sounds like a reasonable change to the mechanic. I would prefer that they turned it into a mitigation skill. the idea that a class can have a 10s window of "don't attack him" is kind of galling when you think about what can happen in this game in 10s. add that to the fact that reflect is already another few seconds of "don't attack him" and you have this heavy armor, front line fighter whose counter play is...don't fight him for 13-14s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 *sigh* Ok, we totally don't see juggernauts healing themselves like crazy in pvp right now. You're right, everything is fine and dandy As strong as your anecdotal evidence is, Maverick is clearly making you look like an idiot with actual facts and numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverickmatt Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 . I would venture to say that KO does as much healing, if not more, that FD (on a class with higher burst). These forums are full of people screaming that the sky is falling anytime there is a slight problem. ED is only a slight problem, the 10 second limit gave you a very effective counterplay. Most Guardians probably won't use it correctly and then they'll harass the healer for letting them die while they still have a full suite of CDs. If you are ALWAYS the last man standing like you say, it is because your team and your opponents are sub par. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 As strong as your anecdotal evidence is, Maverick is clearly making you look like an idiot with actual facts and numbers. Not really considering his numbers are wrong, and even if they were right, the meta as is still gives juggernauts multiple health pools that no other class can achieve without the need of a healer. Anyone who thinks that is balanced is insane. I was in favor of getting better defenses back in the day because before the buffs I hated how easy it was to kill a jugg, especially in ranked because we were the easiest target to kill. Now though? Its way too strong. With that said I'm done with this thread. Ya'll have fun pretending juggs don't have 3 lives. Let me know when you find what other classes can heal themselves twice without the need of a healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverickmatt Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Not really considering his numbers are wrong, and even if they were right, the meta as is still gives juggernauts multiple health pools that no other class can achieve without the need of a healer. Anyone who thinks that is balanced is insane. I was in favor of getting better defenses back in the day because before the buffs I hated how easy it was to kill a jugg, especially in ranked because we were the easiest target to kill. Now though? Its way too strong. With that said I'm done with this thread. Ya'll have fun pretending juggs don't have 3 lives. Let me know when you find what other classes can heal themselves twice without the need of a healer. My numbers are correct. This is something you can try for yourself, you need not take my word for it. One last time... Guardians don't have 3 lives. Also, the notion that Guardians were the easiest target to kill is insulting to sages and scoundrel DPS. If you were the easiest target to kill, that's a problem with you.. not the class (but then.. most complaints about most classes are player problems and not design problems). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 (edited) ... OH MY *********** GOD.....You can't seriously be this ignorant......NO OTHER CLASS CAN POP A CD AND GO FROM 20% TO 90% WITH THAT COMBINATION. That is literally healing to full health. That is a second life. No other class can do that on their own, not one. And EP wearing off is negated by popping ED which gives them another life. EP gives you 30% extra hp to your TOTAL HP. Medpac heals for 30% of your TOTAL HP. Medpac heals for MORE HP during EP. So your "medpac in combo with another cooldown" retort is a moot point because no one else can heal for that much with a CD+MP. They just can't. Guardians have always had a super healing medpack combo. It has never mattered much (ie guardians were canon fodder before ed - even with unstoppable). Everyone can bump their health by 35% with a health medpack. Are you saying that no one can heal an extra 35% with one ability? Again we're in the "if guardian's can do something unique it's wrong" territory but I think that's questionable: lots of classes can push 2 buttons and heal themselves for a lot (and many have the option of repeating those button presses every few seconds without burning medpacks) - even some dps classes. But no, alas, not maras... Edited September 25, 2014 by Savej Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Not really considering his numbers are wrong, and even if they were right, the meta as is still gives juggernauts multiple health pools that no other class can achieve without the need of a healer. Anyone who thinks that is balanced is insane. I was in favor of getting better defenses back in the day because before the buffs I hated how easy it was to kill a jugg, especially in ranked because we were the easiest target to kill. Now though? Its way too strong. With that said I'm done with this thread. Ya'll have fun pretending juggs don't have 3 lives. Let me know when you find what other classes can heal themselves twice without the need of a healer. Is everyone saying that all these CDs are fine? No, I suggested a change on the previous page. Are your assertions absurd and incorrect? Yes. This is the equivilant of me noting the number of times I've killed a Jugg within 5 seconds and telling you they need a survivability buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSeC Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Hyperbole is not helping your cause. Guardians do not have 3 lives. I just laid out the math. Did you not understand it? 63k is not 3x 32k. It's not even 2x No he doesn't, he wants to argue. No amount of proof or numbers will sway him... Reminds me of this. No matter how much evidence to the contrary, if someone has an idea or a belief that they believe to be accurate, no amount of empirical evidence will matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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