Ottoattack Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 so you disagree that their survivability is OFF THE CHARTS? well above every other dps spec in the game? lol get some perspective. this isn't even debatable. they much better survivability than any other dps. they're always the last man standing, either to win the match or the last guy on the losing team. you have to kill them twice over compared to anyone else (aside from the rare stealth who managed to hide away and heal while his team tries to 3v4). And that what makes them OP in yolo que. They fade in presence of healers and tanks, cuz no one gives a crap if you have a ton of extra survivability that is not useful. What matters as dps is that you have enough survivability to counter sudden burst and good damage to be able to kill someone even if they are getting healed and/or guarded. Veg does not have the burst or the up-time to do that, thus it is op in yolo que and below avg. otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSeC Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 so you disagree that their survivability is OFF THE CHARTS? well above every other dps spec in the game? lol get some perspective. this isn't even debatable. they much better survivability than any other dps. they're always the last man standing, either to win the match or the last guy on the losing team. you have to kill them twice over compared to anyone else (aside from the rare stealth who managed to hide away and heal while his team tries to 3v4). Curious... So when a Sin/Shadow or OP/Scoundrel vanish out of a fight to go and heal up... that's not "killing them" (your words) 2 times? What about when you are winning (Charlie Sheen style) a fight and you have burned your CDs. They vanish out and mez you to heal to full right in front of you then take you out? is that not also killing someone 2 times? Or does it depend on how they do it? If you guys want all classes to be the same with the same abilities... why are you playing an MMO? Why not play some FPS so that everyone has the same abilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 so you disagree that their survivability is OFF THE CHARTS? well above every other dps spec in the game? lol get some perspective. this isn't even debatable. they much better survivability than any other dps. they're always the last man standing, either to win the match or the last guy on the losing team. you have to kill them twice over compared to anyone else (aside from the rare stealth who managed to hide away and heal while his team tries to 3v4). sorc, maras, sins and pts can all survive far more focus fire in some situations. Sins and dps ops both have escape and heal2ful buttons. I've been in plenty of rated games where the last people standing weren't juggs. And I've seen plenty of juggs pop ed at 1/4 health and die 2 seconds later. No one's saying ed is crap but you're the one that needs perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 sorc, maras, sins and pts can all survive far more focus fire in some situations. Sins and dps ops both have escape and heal2ful buttons. I've been in plenty of rated games where the last people standing weren't juggs. And I've seen plenty of juggs pop ed at 1/4 health and die 2 seconds later. No one's saying ed is crap but you're the one that needs perspective. You just used DPS operatives in a discussion about survivability. I think perhaps you've smoked a bit too much "perspective". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 sorc, maras, sins and pts can all survive far more focus fire in some situations. Sins and dps ops both have escape and heal2ful buttons. I've been in plenty of rated games where the last people standing weren't juggs. And I've seen plenty of juggs pop ed at 1/4 health and die 2 seconds later. No one's saying ed is crap but you're the one that needs perspective. In yolo with all dps? Marauders are becoming first targets lately because they lack the escape tools and ability to survive focus fire like the other classes flooding yolo have. Marauders cant carry like a jugg can. Case in point my marauder in yolo is like 1050something rating right now, but my juggernaut is 1450 rating and I can carry even the bads in yolo and even beat the queue syncers on my server, something that I just cant do on my marauder simply because I cant live long enough, and even if I could, I cant deal with CC's/roots like my jugg can. But then again, its yolo queue so who cares? ED is stupid right now, but its only stupid in duels and yolo queue. Fact is vengeance still cant put out any meaningful damage. Healers can pretty much heal through all of the vengeance damage quite easily. Sage might struggle slightly but probably less so now with the new buffs they got, but overall their damage is just meh. Why do you think you never see vengeance in team ranked? Side note: PT's are a bit better in yolo compared to marauder due to kolto and hydraulic but they are still one of the first targets on a team as they are generally easy kills. Sorcs are only first target to force a bubble, but then again when you think about it, in yolos thats a waste of a burst so people tend to ignore them since they have so much utility with force speed breaking roots and two CC breakers. Its just better to try and CC them. Too bad pugs never have the coordination to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 In yolo with all dps? Marauders are becoming first targets lately because they lack the escape tools and ability to survive focus fire like the other classes flooding yolo have. Marauders cant carry like a jugg can. Case in point my marauder in yolo is like 1050something rating right now, but my juggernaut is 1450 rating and I can carry even the bads in yolo and even beat the queue syncers on my server, something that I just cant do on my marauder simply because I cant live long enough, and even if I could, I cant deal with CC's/roots like my jugg can. But then again, its yolo queue so who cares? ED is stupid right now, but its only stupid in duels and yolo queue. Fact is vengeance still cant put out any meaningful damage. Healers can pretty much heal through all of the vengeance damage quite easily. Sage might struggle slightly but probably less so now with the new buffs they got, but overall their damage is just meh. Why do you think you never see vengeance in team ranked? Side note: PT's are a bit better in yolo compared to marauder due to kolto and hydraulic but they are still one of the first targets on a team as they are generally easy kills. Sorcs are only first target to force a bubble, but then again when you think about it, in yolos thats a waste of a burst so people tend to ignore them since they have so much utility with force speed breaking roots and two CC breakers. Its just better to try and CC them. Too bad pugs never have the coordination to do so. To be fair it's actually kind of difficult for my Commando to heal through/avoid Veng damage. If I pop HTL and try to run from Ravage I usually get rubber banded back for all the hits. This could be my connection or the game engine (I know it's not the spec itself, haven't noticed if it happens during Combat/Carnage MS/Ravage) but it is a bug that greatly increases the effectiveness of the spec. I have heard the same thing happen to Ops that roll right before being leaped to, they roll and then rubber band back to the ravage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howieloader Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 The amount of sheer dumb****ery in this thread is mind-numbing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 So when a Sin/Shadow or OP/Scoundrel vanish out of a fight to go and heal up... that's not "killing them" (your words) 2 times? What about when you are winning (Charlie Sheen style) a fight and you have burned your CDs. They vanish out and mez you to heal to full right in front of you then take you out? is that not also killing someone 2 times? Or does it depend on how they do it? Well, first off only deception/concealment can truly do that. I tried this on madness and it will rarely work since you will be put into combat right away. Anyway. When a sin stealths out to heal he puts himself out of the match leaving his team to 3v4. Also, he can still be interrupted by any ranged/leaper with ease-just put him back in combat with any attack. Also in order to effectively do that you usually need a PW down in an area where people can't see you, a combat stealth and a shroud. You need to use all your defense abilities at once in order to make it work (and you need to put yourself out of combat for 15 seconds at least-not counting the time to get away and get back in). Juggs just press one button and continue fighting. They can do it while stunned/mezzed as well. Also the sap heal situation you are talking about is so rare, it is not worth mentioning. You must literally be the last 2 standing, he has to have his combat stealth (possibly shroud) and you can't have a breaker. The amount of times this happened is so few, it is not worth mentioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) Yolo http://ootinicast.com/leaderboards/?type=solo&server=all&chart=boxplot (classes by rating) <== what I was thinking of doing but requires brushing up on my html sc****** tools so I hadn't gotten around to it top 25% of maras are slightly behind the top 25% of juggs but most of classes are within a few rating points of each other. Snipers and mercs need love. PTs are maybe too good in average and above average games but maybe not the top game since few have a top rating. Juggs are completely mediocre and not OP according to the numbers in season #3. Edited September 23, 2014 by Savej Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 To be fair it's actually kind of difficult for my Commando to heal through/avoid Veng damage. If I pop HTL and try to run from Ravage I usually get rubber banded back for all the hits. This could be my connection or the game engine (I know it's not the spec itself, haven't noticed if it happens during Combat/Carnage MS/Ravage) but it is a bug that greatly increases the effectiveness of the spec. I have heard the same thing happen to Ops that roll right before being leaped to, they roll and then rubber band back to the ravage. That is the fault of the network coding and the game not properly registering HTL. On his screen you probably popped HTL after he started ravaging so it rubberbanded you back to correlate to his screen as you were techncially being rooted at that point then it applies HTL to let you run away. Happens to me sometimes but the other way around. I'll leap and then they disappear because in reality they were not there to begin with so I leap and then kind of warp around as the game tries to figure out what to do since I technically leaped to nothing. Same with pulls. I'll pull someone and they will warp back to where they were because on their screen they hit a wall or something. Really annoying lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 could the mighty master strike/ravage skill be the answer? This is a question that puzzled philosophers from Aristotle to Heidegger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Curious... So when a Sin/Shadow or OP/Scoundrel vanish out of a fight to go and heal up... that's not "killing them" (your words) 2 times? What about when you are winning (Charlie Sheen style) a fight and you have burned your CDs. They vanish out and mez you to heal to full right in front of you then take you out? is that not also killing someone 2 times? Or does it depend on how they do it? If you guys want all classes to be the same with the same abilities... why are you playing an MMO? Why not play some FPS so that everyone has the same abilities? I did say that while that stealth is healing in the corner, his team is fighting a 3v4. and with the dots flying around all over the place, I'll take my chances on that mezz breaking. I'm not saying the stealth in the corner never wins, but he's not able to fight full throttle while healing up. the jugg doesn't have to take a time out. yes. there's a significant difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 so you disagree that their survivability is OFF THE CHARTS? well above every other dps spec in the game? lol get some perspective. this isn't even debatable. they much better survivability than any other dps. they're always the last man standing, either to win the match or the last guy on the losing team. you have to kill them twice over compared to anyone else (aside from the rare stealth who managed to hide away and heal while his team tries to 3v4). I've pulled 250K healz on my still somewhat undergeared 55 guardian in a match. It's a bit out of kilter right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I've pulled 250K healz on my still somewhat undergeared 55 guardian in a match. It's a bit out of kilter right now. Seriously if you can get damage, protection and healing medals on a spec it might be a little out of wack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Seriously if you can get damage, protection and healing medals on a spec it might be a little out of wack. The healing numbers are inflated because of the DoT meta atm. It's hard for Madness or Pyro to completely stop hitting a target that they were focusing. But otherwise, the heal is completely dependent on the enemy doing the work for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Seriously if you can get damage, protection and healing medals on a spec it might be a little out of wack. medal farming ftw? ok... If they put a cap of 8 medals per game just on guardians i wouldn't blink or care. What about maras or snipers? No protection or healing medals for most of their specs - someone should talk to the ACLU. 250k heals from a guardian is rare. Anni maras can do that just as often. Dps sorcs do it all of the time, tho (while out dpsing juggs, too , and getting more medals) is this a nerf sorcs thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 The healing numbers are inflated because of the DoT meta atm. It's hard for Madness or Pyro to completely stop hitting a target that they were focusing. But otherwise, the heal is completely dependent on the enemy doing the work for you. lol - yup. I've been mostly playing pyro merc since I came back, and literally everything I do at least has the potential to apply a dot. the jugg's hp shoots up like a rocket just from me, and the most I do is one attack. /sadface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raazmir Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 medal farming ftw? ok... If they put a cap of 8 medals per game just on guardians i wouldn't blink or care. What about maras or snipers? No protection or healing medals for most of their specs - someone should talk to the ACLU. 250k heals from a guardian is rare. Anni maras can do that just as often. Dps sorcs do it all of the time, tho (while out dpsing juggs, too , and getting more medals) is this a nerf sorcs thread? Literally any class with a taunt can get medals in all 3 specs since a friggin medpack crit gets heal medals. *********** millenials and their whining, sack up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayshames Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I do not get this thread at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I do not get this thread at all. Appreciate the insight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baalzamon Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I do play rage spec more and more because veng is boring but it kinda suck vs specs with Aoe damage reduction that almost every spec has now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOULCASTER Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) Bad Guardians push>leap>MS. There is always that hipster on the forums trying to sell the obviously smart and common rotation as: "bad"...just because everyone does it. #butdemhipstersdoh Edited September 23, 2014 by SOULCASTER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howieloader Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 There is always that hipster on the forums trying to sell the obviously smart and common rotation as: "bad"...just because everyone does it. #butdemhipstersdoh Nah man, you're wrong... Master Strike is way to mainstream, I dont even have it keybinded cause only bads use it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 This conversation is going to be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siorac Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Nah man, you're wrong... Master Strike is way to mainstream, I dont even have it keybinded cause only bads use it... Yeah, real men use Slash and Strike only. I don't even have a keybind for Overhead Slash either, I mean it's just way too obvious, everyone expects it these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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