Will BioWare ever fix their lack of communication with regards to what's in the pipe?

[collinc]

I swear some of you just like to be contradictory. In one thread you'll say their communication is lacking, and in another you'll say just be patient. Or maybe I'm mixing some of you up.

[Vandicus]

I do.

 

Left a request on the DA forums to see if anyone else has it. Followed a trail through locked threads(fortunately the mods are in the habit of linking to main threads when locking secondary ones on BSN) to the main race discussion thread. Going to have to thread through that to see if I can find the poll and a direct quote.

 

I've found secondary referential evidence which leads me to believe that the quote does exist and isn't a figment of my imagination.

 

http://forum.bioware.com/topic/413701-dragon-age-3-to-use-a-human-protagonist/page-4?bioware=1&bwp=1

 

Little bit further down a player's response is quoted by Schumacher regarding an 80% of players were human number(I said 90% but I don't know which was actually used in the quote just yet).

 

 

Unfortunately my time will be shortly occupied so I most likely won't be able to get back to you for a few hours.

[Joesixxpack]

If they were actually releasing content in a timely and consistent manner, their teasing and non-information wouldn't be an issue to me at all. As it is, I'm left wondering if their slow flow of information is simply because they literally have nothing to tell us, because nothing is actually happening in Austin other than recoloring items to stick in packs.

 

feelsadhocman.jpeg

[TUXs]

I am, in more than on thread to be more accurate.

 

I actually discuss the game, what has come and what is to come.

Uh huh...

You on the other hand are always on a crusade on how Bioware has all the faults in the world, even whey they give a timetable pertaining the release of info. Keep at it since you seem to enjoy that far more than you enjoy the game.

I challenge you to find one example of this statement. And you know nothing of what I enjoy in-game...don't pretend you do.

[Kurin]

For the most part, I agree with the OP's assertion that BW is doing a poor job of championing the future of it's own game. To date, all we know is that it is "a RotHC sized expansion" and that it will include Revan as a central figure in the story.

 

Many assume there will be a level cap. Many assume there will be a new planet. Many assume all sorts of things (hard mode versions of tacticals, for example). But BW has neither confirmed, nor denied, any of those rumors.

 

And that's for a major expansion, that if still on track (the one thing they have recently confirmed), is slated before the end of the year. That's ~3 months from now. We knew a billion times more about GSH 3 months before release, than we know about 3.0.

 

To rehash the history of 3.0: We found out about it in February (absolutely no details). In September we found out it would include Revan. And that's all we know for sure. Honestly, anyone defending BW's information sharing, regardless of past vitriol from players is delusional.

 

I would also like to point out, that in the currently offline class discussion forums (so I cannot link them), the devs PROMISED class changes to sharpshooter/sniper for 2.10. And then, mid-way through testing, removed those changes (some narrow minded people might even say, they went back on a promise). And the world didn't come to and end. Players didn't unsubscribe en masse. NOTHING bad happened.

 

All arguments that BW MUST be guarded with information, because the players cannot handle disappointment are clearly refuted by this example of open and honest communication between the dev team and the players. When BW is this transparent, GOOD THINGS REALLY DO HAPPEN.

[DarthDymond]

And that's for a major expansion, that if still on track (the one thing they have recently confirmed), is slated before the end of the year. That's ~3 months from now. We knew a billion times more about GSH 3 months before release, than we know about 3.0.

Thing is, that's only because GSH got pushed back.

 

Remember, the original launch date was going to be with 2.8, on June 10th,and

, with no info just the "Welcome Home" tagline and a character walking through what we now know as the Coruscant Apartment was released on March 7th... three months before their intended launch date.

[Zoom_VI]

Exactly!!! Silence breeds discontent. If they can't get excited about their own product, don't expect us to. The forums directly reflect the amount of attention they get from the Bioware staff...all game forums do.

 

Silence breeds discontent, until the Silence is broken. All of these complaints will disappear the moment the 3.0 PTS drops, and all of you will completely forget about it. Compare that to what happened with 1.2 and GSF where they gave out information early and yet we heard nothing but complaints and unsub threatening for months after the patch drops, most of which stemmed from people complaining about not getting what they convinced themselves they where getting.

 

 

Really they should just give us a definitive release date to stem off the "they are not doing anything!" people, and then withhold everything until the patch date.

 

Peaking under the wrappings to see what you are getting for Christmas, doesn't make what you are getting any better.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[Vandicus]

@ DarthWicked

 

A post by Gaider helpfully dug up by another forumite on DA:I forums

 

"I sometimes wish we would post those numbers, too... for the vague pleasure of seeing the fans on these forums confronted with indisputable evidence of just how much in the minority they are. I think there's an impression that some people get that, because everyone else who comes to the forums talks about things like multiple playthroughs, that this is a normal thing.

 

Of course, with that knowledge comes a fear that their value is thus less because it's not backed up by numbers-- which seem to be really important to some folks, in terms of validation. So it's probably best not to. :)"

 

http://forum.bioware.com/topic/301424-regarding-player-race-in-da3/?bioware=1

 

I believe there's a more specific quote on their data than the one I found, but unfortunately I included the part about human race choice in the question so it quickly sparked a debate. I've since refined the question and I'll see how that goes.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Vandicus

[Zoom_VI]

http://forum.bioware.com/topic/301424-regarding-player-race-in-da3/?bioware=1

 

Why can't the devs here be active on the forums like that.

[DarthDymond]

@ DarthWicked

 

A post by Gaider helpfully dug up by another forumite on DA:I forums

 

"I sometimes wish we would post those numbers, too... for the vague pleasure of seeing the fans on these forums confronted with indisputable evidence of just how much in the minority they are. I think there's an impression that some people get that, because everyone else who comes to the forums talks about things like multiple playthroughs, that this is a normal thing.

 

Of course, with that knowledge comes a fear that their value is thus less because it's not backed up by numbers-- which seem to be really important to some folks, in terms of validation. So it's probably best not to. :)"

 

http://forum.bioware.com/topic/301424-regarding-player-race-in-da3/?bioware=1

 

I believe there's a more specific quote on their data than the one I found, but unfortunately I included the part about human race choice in the question so it quickly sparked a debate. I've since refined the question and I'll see how that goes.

Ooooh, they're scrappy in that forum.

 

I have no problem, personally, with how BW is handling their hype for this game, and I like the community team we have, but damn I'd go out and buy some CCs right now to unlock some devs mixing it up like that around here.

[Vandicus]

Why can't the devs here be active on the forums like that.

 

From what I understand, the devs for DA spend their own off-time on the forums. Mr. Schumacher(I believe the most active participant, but he works on more than just DA IIRC and does something regarding quality assurance rather than design/story/etc) has mentioned previously that he posts on his own time and does so because he enjoys it.

[Kurin]

Thing is, that's only because GSH got pushed back.

 

Remember, the original launch date was going to be with 2.8, on June 10th,and

, with no info just the "Welcome Home" tagline and a character walking through what we now know as the Coruscant Apartment was released on March 7th... three months before their intended launch date.

 

For GSH, we had that first teaser on March 7, true. In that teaser, it was obvious that we were getting player housing as an upcoming feature/expansion. Since that's pretty much all GSH is, the teaser was enough to answer many of our questions about the upcoming (GSF type) expansion. Then on March 20, BW came out with a ton more information, including the original release date of June 24, which was indeed just 3 months later.

 

But this was for the "minor" release of the year. I think 3 months is an appropriate amount of time for a minor release, though it's razor thin timing. For me, however, it wasn't just 3 months prior, as I actually spilled the beans about GSH in January over on Reddit, which was reposted on Dulfy/SWTOR: http://dulfy.net/2014/02/01/swtor-phoenix-cantina-tour-thumbdrive-assets/ http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7166640

 

Also, the teaser showed a decorated place, with furniture that didn't even make it into the release (or at least, the first cartel packs), if you look at it now. This teaser PROMISED stuff they didn't even deliver. Once again, the world didn't come to an end. Subscribers didn't cancel en masse.

 

I suppose if you actually like the job BW is doing, by all means, keep supporting BW's current style of communication. However, they won't do a better job, unless we point out it's insufficient and request of them to do better.

[Zoom_VI]

From what I understand, the devs for DA spend their own off-time on the forums. Mr. Schumacher(I believe the most active participant, but he works on more than just DA IIRC and does something regarding quality assurance rather than design/story/etc) has mentioned previously that he posts on his own time and does so because he enjoys it.

 

I know, but I feel like the SWTOR devs probably are not even allowed to post on their own time, since out of all the devs I would think at least one of them would at least post intermittently. I like seeing the devs justify their own actions on our level.

 

The official replies are junk since they all seem to have been run through like a dozen protocol droids before reaching the forum.

[DarthDymond]

Not trying to turn this into an argument, but a lot of the things you mentioned are just easiest to reply to point-by-point, so don't take the multiple quote chunks + replies as being overly confrontational about this:

For GSH, we had that first teaser on March 7, true. In that teaser, it was obvious that we were getting player housing as an upcoming feature/expansion. Since that's pretty much all GSH is, the teaser was enough to answer many of our questions about the upcoming (GSF type) expansion.

See I just don't think that's true. We were given the macro-level pitch: "Housing!" but no idea about how it would work (free placement? hooks? instanced? open-world? all through the CM? any gameplay purpose?). Most info, including any indication at all of significant features like Legacy Storage, Guild Ships, and Conquest were only mentioned later on.

 

Here too, we got the basic hook: "Revan's back!" Both the March 7th and September 16th videos were just straightforward teasers.

Then on March 20, BW came out with a ton more information, including the original release date of June 24, which was indeed just 3 months later.

Right, two weeks after the trailer we got the full announcement with actual info. And since Eric has said the full announcement for this expansion will be out "by the end of the month" that means within two weeks of this teaser we will, again, get a full announcement, presumably with actual info.

But this was for the "minor" release of the year. I think 3 months is an appropriate amount of time for a minor release, though it's razor thin timing.

Here, I think there's room for reasonable minds to disagree. Big Expansion or Minor Expansion, I don't see a problem with three months. That's also the same timeframe Star Trek Online is using for their upcoming Delta Rising Expansion (announced in early August, release date in October) and RIFT is using for Nightmare Tide (announced last week of June, release date October 8th).

 

I certainly understand where you're coming from in thinking that a Major Expansion should be given more time, but ultimately I think BW's decision to hype Strongholds, then Forged Alliances, and then this expansion, makes plenty of sense and is a valid (even better) choice.

Also, the teaser showed a decorated place, with furniture that didn't even make it into the release (or at least, the first cartel packs), if you look at it now. This teaser PROMISED stuff they didn't even deliver. Once again, the world didn't come to an end. Subscribers didn't cancel en masse.

In the past, I've said that I believe one reason BW keeps things close to the chest is because of the way fans tend to take things and run with them, giving BW grief for not doing what the fans thought they said, rather than what they actually said. (Just this week for example there was a thread, saying BW "delayed" the teaser because the OP took Eric saying "in about a week" to mean "at the end of this calendar week".)

 

But I've got nothing against people taking the position that they should grow a thicker skin, rather than let such concerns drive their decisions. It's just because I don't have a problem with the advertising as it stands that I don't feel like taking them to task for what may be flimsy reasoning behind it. (I also don't think, and have never claimed, that's the whole reason, just that it might be a contributing factor.)

I suppose if you actually like the job BW is doing, by all means, keep supporting BW's current style of communication. However, they won't do a better job, unless we point out it's insufficient and request of them to do better.

I'm never gonna tell anyone to stop bringing up constructive criticism, as long as its genuine (and actually constructive). I'm just saying this is not an area I feel they need to change things up, I'd rather they focus on things like establishing a more even pace for how they space out core content like Ops, WZs, and Daily Areas (I think the overall quantity of content is fine, just spaced out somewhat poorly over the lifetime of the 2.0 era).

[Aries_cz]

Why can't the devs here be active on the forums like that.

 

Because David Gaider needs fandom tears to sustain himself...

[OddballEasyEight]

I know, but I feel like the SWTOR devs probably are not even allowed to post on their own time, since out of all the devs I would think at least one of them would at least post intermittently. I like seeing the devs justify their own actions on our level.

 

The official replies are junk since they all seem to have been run through like a dozen protocol droids before reaching the forum.

 

Do you honestly think the devs want to post in this cesspool of filth and hatred during their spare time?

 

It seems like every time they post anything they get met by large amounts of scorn and disbelief, so why would they post more than they have to? I certainly wouldn't post here if I worked there.

Edited September 17, 2014 by OddballEasyEight

[Zoom_VI]

Do you honestly think the devs want to post in this cesspool of filth and hatred during their spare time?

 

It seems like every time they post anything they get met by large amounts of scorn and disbelief, so why would they post more than they have to? I certainly wouldn't post here if I worked there.

 

Did you not read that link? Those devs are more than capable of defending themselves with their own vicious forum PvP skills. I would be in here all the time if I was a dev and was allowed to.

 

And honestly they would probably get less flak if people saw them defending and justifying their actions, compared to now where we can only guess why they do some things.

[Aries_cz]

Did you not read that link? Those devs are more than capable of defending themselves with their own vicious forum PvP skills. I would be in here all the time if I was a dev and was allowed to.

 

And honestly they would probably get less flak if people saw them defending and justifying their actions, compared to now where we can only guess why they do some things.

 

I told you already why they post on DA boards so much

 

Because David Gaider needs fandom tears to sustain himself...

[Darth_Wicked]

I told you already why they post on DA boards so much

 

He's a fine fantasy writer in my book.

[Zoom_VI]

I told you already why they post on DA boards so much

 

Wait what? He wasn't the only dev to respond in that thread.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[Aries_cz]

He's a fine fantasy writer in my book.

 

Never said he is not...

[Darth_Wicked]

Never said he is not...

 

No. You just went for an attack of sorts to his character it would seem.

 

Last I checked, he's a writer. Let us focus on that I guess.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Aries_cz]

Wait what? He wasn't the only dev to respond in that thread.

 

Nevermind, it is a running joke on BSN about him...

[Darth_Wicked]

Nevermind, it is a running joke on BSN about him...

 

Correction: A tired one in fact.

[Aries_cz]

No. You just went for an attack of sorts to his character it would seem.

 

Last I checked, he's a writer. Let us focus on that I guess.

 

As I said, Mr.Gaider sustaining himself on fandom tears is a running gag on those forums. I never intended it to be any attack on his character.