Sorc/Sage god bubble through acid. Working as intended?

[teclado]

I have no problem with this.

[Master-Nala]

I understand why you would say that, but I don't agree. Like the user above said.. the intended design (which is flawed) the acid is supposed to create a damage race. Using Dcd's is fine. What is not fine is abilities that take a giant bow around that intention and avoid it completely.

 

Right, but defensive cooldowns reduce damage such that you are only trading the unfair advantage from Sorc/Sages to other classes. No DCDs is fair to all. But if some get to use theirs then so do, Sorc/Sages.

[Evolixe]

Right, but defensive cooldowns reduce damage such that you are only trading the unfair advantage from Sorc/Sages to other classes. No DCDs is fair to all. But if some get to use theirs then so do, Sorc/Sages.

 

It's only the abilities that screw it over. You can still use everything else.

 

 

Some people already have certain DCD's blocked by the very design of that acid.

 

Vanguards for example can't use their kolto overload. Guardians can't use their focused defense.

Assassins overcharge saber doesn't heal them anymore.

 

What makes you think Sages are obligated to all their DCD's when most other classes don't have that?

[Master-Nala]

It's only the abilities that screw it over. You can still use everything else.

 

 

Some people already have certain DCD's blocked by the very design of that acid.

 

Vanguards for example can't use their kolto overload. Guardians can't use their focused defense.

Assassins overcharge saber doesn't heal them anymore.

 

What makes you think Sages are obligated to all their DCD's when most other classes don't have that?

 

You mean our TWO DCDs? One of which is a heal which gets turned off and you want to turn the other off? So what is left? Force Armor? Another absorb shield that presumably you will want to restrict for the exact same reason as Force Barrier?

 

Think about what you're saying. If we don't allow Sorc/Sages to use their bubbles then this is how it breaks down for DCDs:

 

Assassins/Shadows: Deflection and Resilience are still fully usable

Guardians/Juggernauts: Saber Reflect, Saber Ward, Enure still usuable

Scoundrels/Operatives: Dodge still usable (assuming they don't get to use shield probe)

Marauders/Sentinels: Guarded by the Force, Pacify, Saber Ward, Force Camo still usable

Troopers/Bounty Hunters: Reactive Shield, Hold the Line still available

Snipers/Gunslingers: Scrambling Field, Dodge (again assuming they don't get to use shield probe)

 

Sorcerers/Sages: JACK! You can't use Force Mend and you want to remove the ability to use the absorb shields.

 

How in the hell does that seem fair to you?

 

Sorcerers and Sages already have less DCDs because we are supposed to Heal to Full and make you pay for attacking us. Well the acid doesn't allow H2F. The only thing Sorcerers/Sages have left is their absorb shields. If you want to take those away no one else gets to keep their toys either.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Master-Nala

[Zoom_VI]

Right, but defensive cooldowns reduce damage such that you are only trading the unfair advantage from Sorc/Sages to other classes. No DCDs is fair to all. But if some get to use theirs then so do, Sorc/Sages.

 

Lets say in a hypothetical situation a sage and a opponent hit the acid at the same and at the same percent of HP.

 

The sage then applies weaken mind to the opponent then barriers. The sage is at this point guaranteed to win, because at that point the sage is only taking acid damage, while the opponent is taking acid+weaken mind. Since barrier is complete immunity the opponent cannot offer any counter play at all.

 

That's the problem with Barrier is that there is zero ways for a non-sage to counter them. Zero. If a sage goes into acid with barrier available his team will win unless the other team has a sage with barrier available too.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[Master-Nala]

Lets say in a hypothetical situation a sage and a opponent hit the acid at the same and at the same percent of HP.

 

The sage then applies weaken mind to the opponent then barriers. The sage is at this point guaranteed to win, because at that point the sage is only taking acid damage, while the opponent is taking acid+weaken mind. Since barrier is complete immunity the opponent cannot offer any counter play at all.

 

That's the problem with Barrier is that there is zero ways for a non-sage to counter them. Zero. If a sage goes into acid with barrier available his team will win unless the other team has a sage with barrier available too.

 

Unless the opponent is a:

 

Shadow/Assassin who purges, phase walks and lols

Scoundrel/Operative who Dodges, rolls away and lols

Another Sage who barriers or if the attacker was TK or Heals cleanses and lols

 

Remember that Weaken Mind doesn't damage on application. There is time for the target to act.

 

But again, I have no quarrel with removing the ability to use barrier, but then remove all DCD use after the timers goes off. Everyone is on equal footing. Kill or be killed. What I'm not understanding about your argument is why does everyone else get to use their DCDs but the Sage/Sorc loses EVERY ability they have to defend themselves.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Master-Nala

[Zoom_VI]

Unless the opponent is a:

 

Shadow/Assassin who purges, phase walks and lols

Scoundrel/Operative who Dodges, rolls away and lols

Another Sage who barriers or if the attacker was TK or Heals cleanses and lols

 

Remember that Weaken Mind doesn't damage on application. There is time for the target to act.

 

/Faceplam

 

Weaken mind was just a example, he could do Force in Balance and then barrier and achieve the exact same result.

 

Acid is a DPS race, a abily that gives total immunity to damage completely bypasses the DPS race. No other DcD does that. I can burn someone through a normal DcD, not barrier.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[Master-Nala]

/Faceplam

 

Weaken mind was just a example, he could do Force in Balance and then barrier and achieve the exact same result.

 

Acid is a DPS race, a abily that gives total immunity to damage completely bypasses the DPS race. No other DcD does that. I can burn someone through a normal DcD, not barrier.

 

Sure, but what you want to do is take away ALL defenses Sorcerers and Sages have. That's the problem. I can burn through DCDs too, but if the opponent can lower my damage significantly, but I can't do anything to mitigate his, it's an automatic win. What you are suggesting is to simply reverse the situation you are complaining about. All or nothing. You want to take away one class's defense, take them all. Then everyone is on the same page.

 

Please stop dodging the question. Why is it fair for Sorcerers and Sages to have NO defenses in this situation (the acid DPS race) but everyone else gets to have 1-2 things they can do to mitigate damage? You just keep talking about how unfair Barrier is, but don't explain why it's fair to remove every defense this class has but leave everyone else alone.

[Zoom_VI]

Sure, but what you want to do is take away ALL defenses Sorcerers and Sages have. That's the problem. I can burn through DCDs too, but if the opponent can lower my damage significantly, but I can't do anything to mitigate his, it's an automatic win. What you are suggesting is to simply reverse the situation you are complaining about. All or nothing. You want to take away one class's defense, take them all. Then everyone is on the same page.

 

Please stop dodging the question. Why is it fair for Sorcerers and Sages to have NO defenses in this situation (the acid DPS race) but everyone else gets to have 1-2 things they can do to mitigate damage? You just keep talking about how unfair Barrier is, but don't explain why it's fair to remove every defense this class has but leave everyone else alone.

 

Last time I checked, acid doesn't stop you from kitting, or using CC.

[Master-Nala]

Last time I checked, acid doesn't stop you from kitting, or using CC.

 

No real answer, so it's clear you don't want a fair game, just to complain so I'll leave you to it, enjoy!

[Raansu]

No real answer, so it's clear you don't want a fair game, just to complain so I'll leave you to it, enjoy!

 

Because barrier is totally fair right?

[howieloader]

Last time I checked, acid doesn't stop you from kitting, or using CC.

 

Was this supposed to be a serious rebuttal???

[Adovir]

Because barrier is totally fair right?

 

Honestly I think I would give up my combat stealth for barrier, 8 seconds of dmg immunity while receiving no heal penalty and all my damage still works and a massive self shield after, so what if I get stunned for 4 seconds when it lasts for 5 so I can still get away with taking no damage(ps break at 7.9 seconds with your own stun and lol heal in their face). Combat stealth if you try to heal up it's a constant crap shoot of if you got hit with a mass taunt or small aoe attack/mez because then I can't heal up right away I gotta drop combat AGAIN and single my self out from my team for more time. But sorcs have an 8 second self stun and it's not fair because they can't do anything while in it

 

Was this supposed to be a serious rebuttal???

 

Madness is one of the strongest(if not the most) kiting classes in the game, if you can do damage while constantly moving and while staying out of the range of the enemy then yeah it is a defense. You must be one of those sorcs that wants to face tank if you don't see kiting as a defensive ability

Edited September 17, 2014 by Adovir

[Chrisweaver]

If you haven't made the sorc use their barrier before the acid comes then you have failed the match and deserve to lose in the acid end of story..

[Adovir]

If you haven't made the sorc use their barrier before the acid comes then you have failed the match and deserve to lose in the acid end of story..

 

Or you're fighting a really good team, cuz you know madness sorcs(which lets be honest everyone is talking about) is only the #2 group ranked(where this problem actually takes place, let's be honest how many times will this ever happen in solo) spec behind madness sins

[Raansu]

Honestly I think I would give up my combat stealth for barrier, 8 seconds of dmg immunity while receiving no heal penalty and all my damage still works and a massive self shield after, so what if I get stunned for 4 seconds when it lasts for 5 so I can still get away with taking no damage(ps break at 7.9 seconds with your own stun and lol heal in their face). Combat stealth if you try to heal up it's a constant crap shoot of if you got hit with a mass taunt or small aoe attack/mez because then I can't heal up right away I gotta drop combat AGAIN and single my self out from my team for more time. But sorcs have an 8 second self stun and it's not fair because they can't do anything while in it

 

 

 

Madness is one of the strongest(if not the most) kiting classes in the game, if you can do damage while constantly moving and while staying out of the range of the enemy then yeah it is a defense. You must be one of those sorcs that wants to face tank if you don't see kiting as a defensive ability

 

1.) Seriously. I'd trade undying rage for barrier any day of the weak. No penalty and absorbs an insane amount of damage when you come out of it and it acts as a second CC breaker? Ya, UR was so OP back in the day The only issue with UR was the CD in rage spec *sigh*

 

2.) Ya back in the day I had no problem agreeing with giving sorcs some kind of buff, but they have been getting one after another. They are just way over top now. Personally I think fadeout should go back up into the healer tree again. Lightning kind of needs it but they can adjust overload to push back farther or something, but madness really has no business having fadeout these days. I mean between creeping terror, force slow, overload, snare on force lightning that has no CD and barrier? Its pretty easy mode.

 

I leveled my sorc and once I got creeping terror kiting became easy. Once I get fadeout? Pfffft whatever. I had nothing to fear. Just speed away, force slow, spam force lightning, throw creeping terror out (lol 9s CD). They leap again I just use overload and spam some FL some more, throw some dots up.....but generally they are dead before they get to me a second time cuz lol madness damage is stupid right now.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Raansu

[Adovir]

1.) Seriously. I'd trade undying rage for barrier any day of the weak. No penalty and absorbs an insane amount of damage when you come out of it and it acts as a second CC breaker? Ya, UR was so OP back in the day The only issue with UR was the CD in rage spec *sigh*

 

2.) Ya back in the day I had no problem agreeing with giving sorcs some kind of buff, but they have been getting one after another. They are just way over top now. Personally I think fadeout should go back up into the healer tree again. Lightning kind of needs it but they can adjust overload to push back farther or something, but madness really has no business having fadeout these days. I mean between creeping terror, force slow, overload, snare on force lightning that has no CD and barrier? Its pretty easy mode.

 

I leveled my sorc and once I got creeping terror kiting became easy. Once I get fadeout? Pfffft whatever. I had nothing to fear. Just speed away, force slow, spam force lightning, throw creeping terror out (lol 9s CD). They leap again I just use overload and spam some FL some more, throw some dots up.....but generally they are dead before they get to me a second time cuz lol madness damage is stupid right now.

 

I completely agree, they needed a buff and after like 5 in a row I think they got abit much. Also am I the only one who sees the irony in having a 20cd root break(with 2 seconds of root immunity) along with a 9cd root, I mean yeah I'm so suceptable to roots that you need to bring the root break talent into 2nd row of healing, but I have the best kiting in the game and a rediculosly low cd root

[Leafy_Bug]

Guarded by the doge has the easy fix. Revert the heal to be consumed on activation so we can tampax ourselves! I mean medpack!! I swear!

[Evolixe]

Shadow/Assassin who purges, phase walks and lols

Scoundrel/Operative who Dodges, rolls away and lols

Another Sage who barriers or if the attacker was TK or Heals cleanses and lols

 

Jk, your absorb after barrier will win your the game in each of those instances anyways.

[Evolixe]

If you haven't made the sorc use their barrier before the acid comes then you have failed the match and deserve to lose in the acid end of story..

 

Rofl, what an analogy. Thankfully you aren't on the development team.

[Osdorof]

Everybodys Health drains at the Same rate in Acid dmg. How can one Not understand that it is Not Working as intended That ONE class can absorb a Huge amount of that dmg over all other classes?

The Guy defending this mechanic Even Said to someone: then you don't want a fair game...

[Master-Nala]

Because barrier is totally fair right?

 

Follow the conversation. I've said that you can remove the ability to use Barrier, but if you do, remove everything else. No escapes, no DCDs, big brawl in the middle. Fair to all.

 

You don't get to take away one class's powers but leave everyone else alone. That's not fair, either.

 

EDIT: This is to anyone who cares to respond.

 

What I don't get about folks on this forum, is that they don't want things fair, they just want to trade advantages. I have said almost this whole thread that Barrier can go altogether, but then everything else goes with it. That's fair. I have no problem with many of the advantages other classes have because I play them all. They all have serious drawbacks and places where they shine.

 

Raansu saying one class is easymode is lol. Most of the classes are easy and the ones that aren't are being made so. There are at least 5 specs that people regularly complain are 'overpowered' (Madness Sorcs and Sins, PT Pyro, Vengeance Juggs, Ops healers). Each of these specs are very strong and the devs have been trying as best they can to make sure other classes can compete. Which is good. Fair is good.

 

Neutering one class because you don't like its advantages is not.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Master-Nala

[Zoom_VI]

Follow the conversation. I've said that you can remove the ability to use Barrier, but if you do, remove everything else. No escapes, no DCDs, big brawl in the middle. Fair to all.

 

You don't get to take away one class's powers but leave everyone else alone. That's not fair, either.

 

Without barrier the sage is at a disadvantage, but its not a auto loss for the sage. However allowing the sage to barrier is a auto win for the sage.

 

How can you not comprehend that.

[Master-Nala]

Without barrier the sage is at a disadvantage, but its not a auto loss for the sage. However allowing the sage to barrier is a auto win for the sage.

 

How can you not comprehend that.

 

So "not an auto loss" is the same thing as fair? Err no it's not. Remove it all, then it's fair. How you can you not understand that?

[Zoom_VI]

So "not an auto loss" is the same thing as fair? Err no it's not. Remove it all, then it's fair. How you can you not understand that?

 

Omg, the only way to counter barrier in acid, is to have your own sage with barrier.

 

You should never ever have a situation where the only way to counter a class is to use the same class. A sage without barrier in the acid still has all of his other tools available. Acid damage is uniform regardless of location so once everyone hits the acid the sage can kite, LoS, root, and CC to his heart's content, don't give me "its a auto loss" its only a auto loss if you sit and facetank.

 

All other Dcd can be circumvented or burned through. Barrier however cannot be countered or bypassed.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Zoom_VI