anesvik Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 UGGGG. I have scanned through several of these posts, and many people have all kinds of opinions on how to "fix" this. /ignore ideas, no fractions...etc. But as Eric stated...TAKE.YOUR. TIME. There is even a secondary window asking are you sure..come on. There is NO REASON you should pay more for something than you wanted. Are people not able to count zeros? Or maybe they just click click click and hope for the best? If something is listed that you want. spend a few extra seconds to ensure that you are getting the best price. Heck, sometimes I see something I want and ask " WTB xxx for X creds" and people PM me with prices lower than the lowest gtn price. And I know my 2 cents wont change these kind of people from losing their creds. But like they say... "A fool and his money are soon parted." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Reno, you are always right. Even when you are wrong I've admitted to being wrong in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Hey folks, There has been a lot of chatter this weekend in General Discussion around how players are posting on the GTN, specifically around use of decimals/commas, and whether we feel it is an exploit or not. For starters, we definitely don't want to see any players scammed out of their hard earned credits and we will work to stop those situations wherever possible. Unfortunately, this is not one of those scenarios. What someone is doing in this scenario is posting something at a higher value than the market would typically have that item listed for. For us, it would be impossible to tell if a user was posting an item at a higher value to try to "scam" another user, or simply because that is what they want to sell it for. When purchasing items on the GTN, aside from the initial sorting and purchase we also have a secondary window pop-up as confirmation of sale. If you feel you are at risk of buying something off of the GTN at an intended value, take your time! Make sure to read over exactly what they are selling it for and then double check that number when you receive the pop-up. Also, we highly recommend using the sorting functions for both total and unit prices to make sure you are paying what you want. With that in mind, I am going to pass these issues back to the dev team and see if there is anything we can work towards in the future for the GTN to help alleviate these issues. Thanks everyone! -eric Musco has spoken, there is no scam. You may want to quote that, and link a source. As it is now, it looks like you're impersonating Musco. That can get you banned, quick, fast and in a hurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonnn Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) ... With that in mind, I am going to pass these issues back to the dev team and see if there is anything we can work towards in the future for the GTN to help alleviate these issues. Thanks everyone! -eric I applaud you Eric for opening this up to possible changes to the in-game GTN features to fix this issue. With that in mind, let me suggest a group of fairly simple changes to the existing Purchase Confirmation that might fix most of the problem by providing much more protection to buyers on the GTN. . First, add tiers of color-coding to the Purchase Confirmation dialog, that changes colors based on price thresholds: . . . . . . . . . . . . . .100,000+ . . . . . . . . . . . . . .250,000+ . . . . . . . . . . 2,000,000+ . In addition, give the Purchase Confirmation these characteristics: . large text for the price, so it's more likely to be noticed in all situations. Perhaps even put it in increasingly larger text at each tier of larger price..when the price is 250K credits or greater, always show the Purchase Confirmation, even if the Preferences toggle is switched off. This will lead to people's attention being unquestionably grabbed when that Purchase Confirmation pops up. The tooltip on the Preferences checkbox for toggling the Purchase Confirmation needs to state that it only switches it off for purchases that are less than 250K credits..for prices 250K credits or greater, keep the "OK" button disabled for the first 5 seconds. This way no one's likely to dismiss the Purchase Confirmation without glancing at the price. This change should be favored because it consists of only cosmetic changes and minor functional changes that aren't at all risky to implement. . Edited November 13, 2014 by anonnn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I've admitted to being wrong in the past. ...and that was a very sad and confusing day for all us Reno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I applaud you Eric for opening this up to possible changes to the in-game GTN features to fix this issue. With that in mind, let me suggest a group of fairly simple changes to the existing Purchase Confirmation that might fix most of the problem by providing much more protection to buyers on the GTN. . First, add tiers of color-coding to the Purchase Confirmation dialog, that changes colors based on price thresholds: . . . . . . . . . . . . . .100,000 . . . . . . . . . . 1,000,000 . . . . . . . . . . 5,000,000 . In addition, give the Purchase Confirmation these characteristics: . large text for the price, so it's more likely to be noticed in all situations. Perhaps even put it in increasingly larger text at each tier of larger price..when the price is 1M credits or greater, always show the Purchase Confirmation, even if the Preferences toggle is switched off. This will lead to people's attention being unquestionably grabbed when that Purchase Confirmation pops up. The tooltip on the Preferences checkbox for toggling the Purchase Confirmation needs to state that it only switches it off for purchases that are less than 1M credits..for prices 1M credits or greater, keep the "OK" button disabled for the first 5 seconds. This way no one's likely to dismiss the Purchase Confirmation without glancing at the price. This change should be favored because it consists of only cosmetic changes and minor functional changes that aren't at all risky to implement. . Im going to add larger text for the prices to the suggestion list I posted on page one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essence_of_Light Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) I've admitted to being wrong in the past. No... you're never wrong! Reno pls! Edited November 10, 2014 by Essence_of_Light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnewton Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) I don't think that is a proper translation lol. Not even after a 6 pack. I do. This guy put it even better though: Player stupidity is not something bioware can fix. And that pretty much just about sums it all up. Bioware is not a communist government, they will neither hold your hand through your stupidity nor guard you from your stupidity. Solution? Don't be stupid. Problem solved Edited November 10, 2014 by idnewton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anesvik Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 2 simple rules apply here, and always have. 1.) Buyer is responsible for ensuring they are purchasing what they want, for the price they want. Period 2.) Seller is free to charge whatever they wish for the item/s they desire to sell. Period Rule 2 does not guarantee a sale, if people follow rule 1. A seller is not responsible for a buyers rushed, or misinformed mistake, neither in game, nor in real life. Only time a Seller is responsible for a misrepresented sale, is if they advertise for 1 price, and sell for a higher price. In short, to use a real world model .... If i am selling you a slice of pizza for $20. and you only want to spend $5. don't buy my Pizza. However if you really LOVE my Pizza, you're gonna pay the price i charge. P.S. there are times in the past, where, out of exhaustion, i placed items on the GTN, and priced them 1 or 2 zero's cheaper than i should have, simply because i just wanted to get them posted before i fell asleep. Imagine that, they sold, and someone got a hell of a deal. Should i rage over being scammed, since someone bought my MK-9's for 8k instead of 80k? Or should i just put on my big-boy britches and go oops my bad? (the answer is simple ) End of story. You may now rant and rage, over your impatient stupidity. You....are some kind of WIZARD. My god, you are rational....and these are magical ideas!!!! No no...you must be a bot. Yup, no one can use common sence like that...lol I like to drink fridays and post stuff on gtn for 2-5x higher than normal price. I even post in chat I am selling it for that price. And among the "dude your dumb" or " will never happen" chat replies...someone always PMs me.. "deal" My selling rule? People are stupid and will pay anything for stupid stuff...you just need to find them. But when I buy stuff...I always follow rule 1. I dont mind people wasting their creds...I wont though. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essence_of_Light Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) I think this week should be forever remember as "GTN Scam/Not scam week"! We could even have an ingame event where everyone posts junk they own for insane prices! It'd be amazing! Oh, oh! And Bioware could triple the tax of putting items on the GTN! Items that would normally cost 500 credits to list, now cost 1500! It is genius!!!! Edited November 10, 2014 by Essence_of_Light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) I do. This guy put it even better though: Fair enough. As I have said many times. I'll try a 12 pack and see if your translation works then. And that pretty much just about sums it all up. Bioware is not a communist government, they will neither hold your hand through stupidity nor guard you from your own stupidity. Solution? Don't be stupid. Problem solved I don't need my hand held. Nor is there a problem to be solved. THERE NEVER WAS. The foolishness comes in actually making the argument. Buyers AND sellers can not be protected from themselves, and no amount of arguing is going to change that. It is simply iceskating uphill. Ive never figured out how to solve that problem. Im not even sure there is a solution. Oh, and you used the rolleyes emote. You are therefore fired from the internet. Edited November 10, 2014 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 No... you're never wrong! Reno pls! Oh, you poor things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Oh, you poor things! You must think of us when you do such things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnewton Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) Fair enough. As I have said many times. I'll try a 12 pack and see if your translation works then. I don't need my hand held. Nor is there a problem to be solved. THERE NEVER WAS. The foolishness comes in actually making the argument. Ive never figured out how to solve that problem. Im not even sure there is a solution. Oh, and you used the rolleyes emote. You are therefore fired from the internet. Why are you so defensive? If you don't apply to the stated conditions then the comment clearly was not targeted at you. PS: This, lol: Fair enough. As I have said many times. I'll try a 12 pack and see if your translation works then.You said this once, you said 6-pack, and it was a stupid comment to begin with. Pretending to be all high and mighty is generally not the way to go when you're trying to make a point Edited November 10, 2014 by idnewton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Why are you so defensive? If you don't apply to the stated conditions then the comment clearly was not targeted at you. Fair enough. But I am not defensive...i am dismissive. Dismissive of all opinions that revolve around "buyers must be protected" or "buyers are looking to be protected". Both are equally inane. I have little respect for either view when they are presented in the form of forum PVP. If I have offended you as a result, I do apologize. However I will continue to give little credence to any opinion that has any basis in fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) PS: This, lol: You said this once, you said 6-pack, and it was a stupid comment to begin with. Pretending to be all high and mighty is generally not the way to go when you're trying to make a point Perhaps you should start by taking your own advice. Clearly you are not prepared to receive the same derision you produce. Of course it was a stupid comment I made. I responded IN KIND. Edited November 10, 2014 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Why are you so defensive? If you don't apply to the stated conditions then the comment clearly was not targeted at you. PS: This, lol: You said this once, you said 6-pack, and it was a stupid comment to begin with. Pretending to be all high and mighty is generally not the way to go when you're trying to make a point Irony, much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 A waste of oxygen huh? Because we realize there are people out there scamming others or...why? I've luckily never been scammed, but if you've ever done a GTN search for anything, it's easy to spot this and it's become an even bigger issue than ever. I'd like it fixed because I'm sick of people trying to dupe others. Why am I a "waste of oxygen" exactly for stating the obvious, that people are out there trying to cheat others?! Actually, I am probably a waste of oxygen. Perhaps he just meant me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Irony, much? lol Yes, the entertaining irony..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Actually, I am probably a waste of oxygen. Perhaps he just meant me. Quite the contrary. We may not always agree, but I appreciate your demeanor here on the forums and have quite a bit of respect for your posts...you are a breath of fresh air! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Wow, almost 20000 posts. I guess I was wrong. Maybe this is an issue lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anniahilus Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Wow, almost 20000 posts. I guess I was wrong. Maybe this is an issue lol. Take it with a grain of salt though. I'd be curious to see the percentage of those posts that were by a handful of people consistently bumping a thread to keep it at the top of the topics list. Or how many of the posts were of the content "Nuh-uh ... you are!". I'd be willing to set the over/under for percentage of those kind of posts at 33%. Still even if 14k of the posts were meaningful discussion, BW has spoken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 The price is clear, not reading it is not a scam nor an exploit, it's buyer stupidity. The same UI you claim has shortcomings, also has tools to prevent this, and players are not using them, including filtering items by minimum and maximum price, and sorting items by total and unit prices, and the already existing Purchase Confirmation box. If players are ignoring the existing tools to get "scammed" due to their lack of any math education past the Second Grade, I'm not sure what change you think can be made that will change anything, other than BioWare telling players what prices they are allowed to list items for. I think you're missing part of the "scam"... Say item X is selling for, 7500 credits in general. What I do (not that I have or would) is flood the market with items at 74900.23 credits, so that when you click through more pages, you'll keep seeing that number, and everyone knows 749 is lower than 750, so to my scanning eye, 749 looks lower...then I place the dummy item for 699000, that appears at the very top of your screen, above the 74900.23 one. You can scan forward a few pages, but all you'll see are items at 74900.23 (that I conveniently placed there for you to see), so you'll go back to page 1 where, again, to your scanning eye, mine will look lower because 6 is lower than 7. The people pulling this scan are taking advantage of the UI, limited items listed per page and peoples perception and assumption that the listing is sorted correctly. Sure, it's the buyers fault ultimately, just like it's their fault in any scam...but there's no doubt in my mind that this is a scam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) Take it with a grain of salt though. I'd be curious to see the percentage of those posts that were by a handful of people consistently bumping a thread to keep it at the top of the topics list. Or how many of the posts were of the content "Nuh-uh ... you are!". I'd be willing to set the over/under for percentage of those kind of posts at 33%. Still even if 14k of the posts were meaningful discussion, BW has spoken I am guilty of 105 of those posts it seems...... I will repost the list I had in place at the beginning of the thread with EMs comment before the merge. Thank you Mr Musco. Here are the suggestions so far...I see them as QoL changes that would be nice to have. If you see any you think might be relevant and wish to pass them on, I appreciate it. 1) The ability to ignore a character name on the GTN, so the items sold by that character are not shown in searches. 2) The ability to place a red flag on sellers you do not like, green flag on ones you prefer, and a sort function to move red flags to the bottom of a search, green flags to the top. Only you would see the flags you apply. 3) Remove the ability for the system to display fractional currency in the "price per unit" field. 4) Have the formatting right justified instead of left justified. 5) Have the ignore list also apply to the GTN. 6) Change total price to price per unit, or just add a price per unit option for posting items for sale. 7) Default the GTN to sorting by lowest price first, or lowest per unit price. 8) Larger text for the price display. Any of them would be welcome changes IMO. I would personally love to see the ability to price per unit when placing a sale, and having a flag system so I could flag sellers based on how I rate them...for my eyes only. The flag with a sort function would be very convenient. It seems the ability to price items per unit as an option is the most popular suggestion. Edited November 10, 2014 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainot-keel Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) I applaud you Eric for opening this up to possible changes to the in-game GTN features to fix this issue. With that in mind, let me suggest a group of fairly simple changes to the existing Purchase Confirmation that might fix most of the problem by providing much more protection to buyers on the GTN. . First, add tiers of color-coding to the Purchase Confirmation dialog, that changes colors based on price thresholds: . . . . . . . . . . . . . .100,000 . . . . . . . . . . 1,000,000 . . . . . . . . . . 5,000,000 . In addition, give the Purchase Confirmation these characteristics: . large text for the price, so it's more likely to be noticed in all situations. Perhaps even put it in increasingly larger text at each tier of larger price..when the price is 1M credits or greater, always show the Purchase Confirmation, even if the Preferences toggle is switched off. This will lead to people's attention being unquestionably grabbed when that Purchase Confirmation pops up. The tooltip on the Preferences checkbox for toggling the Purchase Confirmation needs to state that it only switches it off for purchases that are less than 1M credits..for prices 1M credits or greater, keep the "OK" button disabled for the first 5 seconds. This way no one's likely to dismiss the Purchase Confirmation without glancing at the price. This change should be favored because it consists of only cosmetic changes and minor functional changes that aren't at all risky to implement. . That might be overkill and more work. No decimals (since they don't even exist as in-game currency), and aligned to the right as numbers should be aligned in a table, would be a great improvement to prevent these kind of mistakes. Edited November 10, 2014 by wainot-keel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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