g_land Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 This is your argument against the removal of the display of fractional currency? What does learning to read have to do with the annoyance of the display of a currency the game does not use? And on a side note, once again, the onus is on us, as buyers, to punish sellers that participate in dishonorable selling practices. He stated three numbers after a comma... as in someone posted something for thousands. I have yet to see anything posted on gtn with anything more than two numbers after the decimal representation. If you can manage to do that and actually take a screen shot of a sale piece on the gtn with more than three numbers after the decimal I might even start believing you. However, no matter how hard I have tried myself, it always rounds to the nearest hundredth of a credit so yes in the person case where I quoted, the answer is learn to read numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 And that would be fine, but that isn't what is happening here... If the Pizza normally goes for $5, and you use the "Pizza listing service" to make it appear to be $5 while actually charging $5,000, you'd be way out of line. This isn't a matter of charging double or triple the normal price, it is charging a thousand times higher for the normal price. Exactly this!!! You go online and order a pizza, they're listed for: $5.00 and $499...you mistakenly purchase the one for $499 thinking it was $4.99. Sure...stupid mistake, but a mistake no less and one that was set-up with the intention of tricking you...hence a "scam". It's exploiting the UI shortcomings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Seriusly guys... just stop with this thread already.... no matter what you say you will not get EvenHard to acknowledge that he is at fault. With him its all circular arguments and passing off his opinions as fact or truth, while at the same time dismissing rational counter arguments as "your opinion", "victim blaming" and what not. Just ignore him and let the thread die so that he can disappear along with it... It isn't going to stop, the other 8 threads aren't going to stop, until something is done... Eric has now responded, he has passed it up the chain of command. They will either take action, or they won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 No, they actually do have to have proof. Or EA gets sued. And then it goes class action when they can't prove that any of these potential scammers were actually scamming since all they did was list items on the GTN for more than everyone else. And while there may be malicious intent (which can't be proven anyway), it certainly doesn't break any current rules or terms of SWTOR. In the same manner that if I charge 100x as much for my goods on e-bay and you buy it because you didn't notice an extra digit, you won't get your money back. LOL! Sued?! No. Not really. They can ban anyone at any time for any reason son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 It is unlikely Bioware could accurately determine someones "intentions" in most cases. There is no real way to protect sellers or buyers in this market. The entire argument on both sides is without merit, COMPLETELY without merit. There isn't a single change to the GTN in the history of the system that has protected buyers or sellers. Because you can not protect a buyer or seller from themselves. Any change to the current system would represent a QoL improvement, nothing more. Sellers will still be able to "game" the market, and buyers will still be "gamed". The only way to avoid being "gamed" conclusively is to not participate in the market, buyer or seller. People make mistakes, and will continue to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 So if someone's listed items that normally go for X amount of thousand credits for 100x LESS, does that mean all the other listings have bad intentions? Not possible to determine intent with 100% accuracy. Try again. If the item listed for less was put in first, yes. 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) Regardless if this is a scam or not, have you considered that what once was legal, can be made illegal? How about Bioware says, "fine, the past is the past, but going forward, this is no longer allowed". If Bioware said that, would you be ok with it and respect it? What we are asking for is for Bioware to declare this behavior to be against the rules and be reportable. If they said that I would be okay with it. But that's not the case. Eric cleared it up for everyone, like I said before in this thread it's now End of Story. Edited November 10, 2014 by Reno_Tarshil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nel-Luc Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I'd just like to add that this has been pointed out several times in the thread and answered several times by me I'd just like to point out I don't even read - I just click stuff and derp 90% of the time. Seems like this thread is for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotharofxev Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Just so I'm clear on this: Instead of using time, money, resources to oh, I dunno, introduce NEW CONTENT, there are various forum posters who want the parent company to pore over logs, monitor the GTN and ALL sales, not just to "determine patterns", but to determine "intent". You must lead very sheltered lives is all I can say. Oh wait, that's insensitive. IT'S A SLAP IN THE FACE OF ANY GTN USER THAT WE BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR OUR OWN ACTIONS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_land Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Seriously, please read the link that was provided earlier in the thread. She WAS NOT DRIVING when this occurred, and there were no cupholders in the car. That was her plan was it not? To drive off with it between her leg? Hmm, how does the fact that she wasn't driving and didn't have cup holders in the car excuse her for you know not planning to do that or just getting out of the car for a few minutes and drinking it. You are still removing responsibility from somebody who is whole responsible for doing something stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Just so I'm clear on this: Instead of using time, money, resources to oh, I dunno, introduce NEW CONTENT, there are various forum posters who want the parent company to pore over logs, monitor the GTN and ALL sales, not just to "determine patterns", but to determine "intent". The same people going through logs are not the ones designing content. The support center (assuming they still have one) would be responsible for the former. And they should already be quite familiar with the process if they've been doing the correct job these last few years. They do it all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) He stated three numbers after a comma... as in someone posted something for thousands. I have yet to see anything posted on gtn with anything more than two numbers after the decimal representation. If you can manage to do that and actually take a screen shot of a sale piece on the gtn with more than three numbers after the decimal I might even start believing you. However, no matter how hard I have tried myself, it always rounds to the nearest hundredth of a credit so yes in the person case where I quoted, the answer is learn to read numbers. Believing me? I have stated nothing pertaining to this silly argument, IMO, that is beyond comprehension or belief. The answer is not to learn to read numbers. That has NOTHING to do with the merit of the suggestions. It is an argument point that is ridiculous on BOTH sides of the argument. The suggestions are QoL improvements. They do not offer protections against anything. Therefore telling someone to "learn to read" is argumentative and silly. Quite a few folks that are participating in the back and forth do not seem to be interested in discussing any REAL issue with respect to improvements that can be made to benefit all. There is no need to argue the issue since no issue exists. Edited November 10, 2014 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Just so I'm clear on this: Instead of using time, money, resources to oh, I dunno, introduce NEW CONTENT, there are various forum posters who want the parent company to pore over logs, monitor the GTN and ALL sales, not just to "determine patterns", but to determine "intent". Yup. It sucks that time needs to be wasted to fix things that are causing issues, but this type of slowdown happens in any MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimvinny Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 If the item listed for less was put in first, yes. 100%. What are you even trying to say here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 What are you even trying to say here? That he can read minds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuckaLukaum Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Hey folks, There has been a lot of chatter this weekend in General Discussion around how players are posting on the GTN, specifically around use of decimals/commas, and whether we feel it is an exploit or not. For starters, we definitely don't want to see any players scammed out of their hard earned credits and we will work to stop those situations wherever possible. Unfortunately, this is not one of those scenarios. What someone is doing in this scenario is posting something at a higher value than the market would typically have that item listed for. For us, it would be impossible to tell if a user was posting an item at a higher value to try to "scam" another user, or simply because that is what they want to sell it for. When purchasing items on the GTN, aside from the initial sorting and purchase we also have a secondary window pop-up as confirmation of sale. If you feel you are at risk of buying something off of the GTN at an intended value, take your time! Make sure to read over exactly what they are selling it for and then double check that number when you receive the pop-up. Also, we highly recommend using the sorting functions for both total and unit prices to make sure you are paying what you want. With that in mind, I am going to pass these issues back to the dev team and see if there is anything we can work towards in the future for the GTN to help alleviate these issues. Thanks everyone! -eric I don't have an opinion one way or the other on the morality or ethics involved in listing items this way, but one thing that could be done to make the argument moot would simply be to make all per-unit costs be whole credits. As far as I'm aware, per-unit prices on the GTN are currently the only instance of price setting or credit transfer that allows decimals. Remove the decimals and you remove the debate. Just my .02 (pun intended), Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 What are you even trying to say here? I shouldn't have to clarify it, it's pretty clear if you're capable of understanding English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyrickG Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 *Snip* -eric Dearest MuscoDots, You answer this but no comment on the pvp rewards given to pvers who dont even want to pvp but do it just to get their crystal and ruin solo ranked games for the rest of us. You guys realize many don't care if they win or lose they just want 10 games played right? Please don't do this to us next season.... There needs to be a minimum rating for rewards and a gear check before being allowed to enter solo ranked. And btw, no bolster in ranked also please. Thread hijack over. Please continue with previously scheduled broadcasting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 What are you even trying to say here? I think he meant "sort to lowest price first" in the GTN screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I think he meant "sort to lowest price first" in the GTN screen. To me it looked like he said that if you over price an item your intent is to scam... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_land Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Believing me? I have stated nothing pertaining to this silly argument, IMO, that is beyond comprehension or belief. The answer is not to learn to read numbers. That has NOTHING to do with the merit of the suggestions. It is an argument point that is ridiculous on BOTH sides of the argument. The suggestions are QoL improvements. They do not offer protections against anything. Therefore telling someone to "learn to read" is argumentative and silly. Quite a few folks that are participating in the back and forth do not seem to be interested in discussing any REAL issue with respect to improvements that can be made to benefit all. There is no need to argue the issue since no issue exists. My original response was directly to the person who cited three points after the decimal, no amount of your QoL is going to help that person if they can't read numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimvinny Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I shouldn't have to clarify it, it's pretty clear if you're capable of understanding English. It's quite clear that you DO need to clarify it. What you said makes no sense in the current context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 To me it looked like he said that if you over price an item your intent is to scam... Ah, I see. I am not speaking to that, only to the quote you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) Ah, I see. I am not speaking to that, only to the quote you posted. Here's the relevant portion of the conversation I commented towards. So if someone's listed items that normally go for X amount of thousand credits for 100x LESS, does that mean all the other listings have bad intentions? Not possible to determine intent with 100% accuracy. Try again. If the item listed for less was put in first, yes. 100%. What are you even trying to say here? I shouldn't have to clarify it, it's pretty clear if you're capable of understanding English. Edit: Thus the understanding of hadoken's comment is that anyone who posts for 100x what the lowest price is must have ill-intent. Let's ignore the fact that the original poster may have been undervaluing their item by a multiplier of 100x, thus branding anyone by this conversation's logic to be an individual of ill-intent for posting higher than that first low price. Edited November 10, 2014 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 My original response was directly to the person who cited three points after the decimal, no amount of your QoL is going to help that person if they can't read numbers. WHICH IS EXACTLY MY POINT. That is what makes your response pointless, you have pointed out yourself exactly why no response was necessary. Do you really think that telling someone to "learn to read" is going to solve the problem they say they are having? IMO your response is just as ridiculous as the comment you replied to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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