hadoken Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Well it's the lazy answer, but I expected nothing less. I'm sure nothing will be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Let's assume that you needed to upgrade the motherboard on your computer. The one you want cost $225. You browse the web and find someone advertising that same motherboard: TODAY ONLY, $17499 You jump at the opportunity to save $50, but the following day, you find a charge to your credit card for $17,499.00 You were scammed, but its all ok, but it's all "just business," right? Go right ahead and report that person to the police and they'll take one look at the ad and say "but it says right there that it's $17499, sir. Might I suggest that you pay more attention next time?" So yeah, it's exactly like that. And exactly as illegal or against the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyVix Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Your analogy doesn't work because there isn't any decimals or periods to indicate what the price is. If someone doesn't pay attention and ask what the price is before buying then that really is the buyer's fault. Yes, it is the buyers fault for being inattentive, but it's also Biowares fault for implementing a fractional pricing system that allows the scammers to take advantage of others like this. I can't buy things for 1200.46 credits, I pay 1201 credits. There's no reason to display fractional prices if we can't pay in fractional prices. A lot of people here defend this pricing scam, but if it's allowed to continue, the problem will multiply. Short of that, my only other recommendation to prevent abuse would be implementation of an upfront non-refundable deposit on GTN sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Sorry but I just don't see a need to spend resources on something that doesn't need fixing when all the tools to prevent accidents are already available on the GTN. There is no need to spend resources on any QoL feature. This has never been a valid argument the numerous times it has been presented against QoL changes. This is not a "fix" to prevent "accidents". I would NOT prevent "accidents". It would prevent nothing. It would protect no one. It would simply be convenient. The argument for and against is ridiculous. Either the change has merit as a QoL change or it does not. Sellers and buyers do not deserve to protected from themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 And the yellow text has spoken: Hey folks, There has been a lot of chatter this weekend in General Discussion around how players are posting on the GTN, specifically around use of decimals/commas, and whether we feel it is an exploit or not. For starters, we definitely don't want to see any players scammed out of their hard earned credits and we will work to stop those situations wherever possible. Unfortunately, this is not one of those scenarios. What someone is doing in this scenario is posting something at a higher value than the market would typically have that item listed for. For us, it would be impossible to tell if a user was posting an item at a higher value to try to "scam" another user, or simply because that is what they want to sell it for. When purchasing items on the GTN, aside from the initial sorting and purchase we also have a secondary window pop-up as confirmation of sale. If you feel you are at risk of buying something off of the GTN at an intended value, take your time! Make sure to read over exactly what they are selling it for and then double check that number when you receive the pop-up. Also, we highly recommend using the sorting functions for both total and unit prices to make sure you are paying what you want. With that in mind, I am going to pass these issues back to the dev team and see if there is anything we can work towards in the future for the GTN to help alleviate these issues. Thanks everyone! -eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimvinny Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 It's the correct answer. Player stupidity is not something bioware can fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaronV Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 No, but they can make it harder to be one by simply removing decimals. It's up to the people who design the UI to make it idiot proof. WOW! its perfectly okay for pvpers to trick/trap/exploit people into flagging so that they can gank them, but people paying the price for their own carelessness or stupidity on the GTN is a big no-no and the devs need to fix the UI? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beranzen Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Hey folks, There has been a lot of chatter this weekend in General Discussion around how players are posting on the GTN, specifically around use of decimals/commas, and whether we feel it is an exploit or not. For starters, we definitely don't want to see any players scammed out of their hard earned credits and we will work to stop those situations wherever possible. Unfortunately, this is not one of those scenarios. What someone is doing in this scenario is posting something at a higher value than the market would typically have that item listed for. For us, it would be impossible to tell if a user was posting an item at a higher value to try to "scam" another user, or simply because that is what they want to sell it for. When purchasing items on the GTN, aside from the initial sorting and purchase we also have a secondary window pop-up as confirmation of sale. If you feel you are at risk of buying something off of the GTN at an intended value, take your time! Make sure to read over exactly what they are selling it for and then double check that number when you receive the pop-up. Also, we highly recommend using the sorting functions for both total and unit prices to make sure you are paying what you want. With that in mind, I am going to pass these issues back to the dev team and see if there is anything we can work towards in the future for the GTN to help alleviate these issues. Thanks everyone! -eric Musco has spoken, there is no scam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 And I am against removing the decimals because I prefer more accurate data when I make a purchase. Displaying fractional currency does not provide accurate data. No more than claiming displaying the whole price and standing against the adoption of price per unit is a fight for accurate data display. The argument is just as ridiculous now as it was then. You are still presented with accurate data. Fractional currency is not used by the game or the player. It's display is not required for ANY reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anniahilus Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Hey folks, There has been a lot of chatter this weekend in General Discussion around how players are posting on the GTN, specifically around use of decimals/commas, and whether we feel it is an exploit or not. For starters, we definitely don't want to see any players scammed out of their hard earned credits and we will work to stop those situations wherever possible. Unfortunately, this is not one of those scenarios. What someone is doing in this scenario is posting something at a higher value than the market would typically have that item listed for. For us, it would be impossible to tell if a user was posting an item at a higher value to try to "scam" another user, or simply because that is what they want to sell it for. When purchasing items on the GTN, aside from the initial sorting and purchase we also have a secondary window pop-up as confirmation of sale. If you feel you are at risk of buying something off of the GTN at an intended value, take your time! Make sure to read over exactly what they are selling it for and then double check that number when you receive the pop-up. Also, we highly recommend using the sorting functions for both total and unit prices to make sure you are paying what you want. With that in mind, I am going to pass these issues back to the dev team and see if there is anything we can work towards in the future for the GTN to help alleviate these issues. Thanks everyone! -eric It's over people ... it's finally over! The player base can go back to playing a game that was designed for more than decimal points, and commas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) I ask a simple question: Is deliberately putting over priced items on the GTN in the hope that somebody will misread the price (due to the way the decimals are displayed) and them unintentionally purchasing an over priced item against the rules? Is this against the rules, Bioware? Because if it's not then I'm sure as heck gonna start doing this more often I would be surprised if they answer the questions. Why? Because they try very hard to stay out of mutual consent actions between players inside the game. You might get lucky, but don't hold your breath. And... you did.. but I bet you did not get the answer you wanted. Let me give you a case in point. Every so often, we get a new thread (usually from a guild GM) about some player "scamming" the guild by taking items out of the guild vault without permission and then selling them or stealing them and leaving the guild. But see... Bioware gives the GMs of guilds complete permissions control over the vault.... in effect providing complete "mutual consent" mechanics between guild and guild member. The guild DID give the player permission to take items out unsupervised... so its' on the guild for poor judgment. The same is true for the GTN. Bioware has designed the GTN as a true "mutual consent system between players. The seller must consent to post an item and a seller must consent to buy an item. Nobody can force anyone to do anything against their will on the GTN. Sure... silly buyers can put stuff up for freakish prices, but sellers have complete control over what they buy. But GMs will demand a response in the forum and demand safeguards (when sufficient safeguards are already in place.. the guild just did not use them). As for the carelessness issue... because that is exactly what it is... carelessness buying something priced higher then you are willing to pay... no sympathy from me, THERE IS A PRICE FILTER BUILT IN... use it. Most players are adults and it's reasonable to expect adults so some care and discretion in their actions. I know in today's MMO world... it's more popular to blame the developer for every silly interaction between players that someone decides to take offense to.... but that does not make it the right, or mature, thing to do. Edited November 10, 2014 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I told you people nothing would be done and it's not a scam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachenko_Yuri Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) nvm, my bad. Edited November 10, 2014 by Tachenko_Yuri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apophis_ Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) I can't believe people needed 10+ threads to get this (obvious and correct) answer on that simple matter. Edited November 10, 2014 by Apophis_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Yes, it is the buyers fault for being inattentive, but it's also Biowares fault for implementing a fractional pricing system that allows the scammers to take advantage of others like this. Removing fractional display does not stop "scammers" from taking advantage of others. There will always be that opportunity as long as the GTN exists. This change in NO WAY protects buyers. It does, however, provide a QoL change. Buyers can not and WILL NOT be protected from themselves. They will still make mistakes that cost them, and sellers will still take advantage of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 And the yellow text has spoken: I called it, I so freaking called it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Please at least make the decimal consistent across all unit price listings. Either show the decimal in all cases, or remove it altogether. That inconsistency is a huge part in why these practices work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaronV Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 good god... the crazies actually managed to get the devs to put out a response over this utter non-issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) For starters, we definitely don't want to see any players scammed out of their hard earned credits and we will work to stop those situations wherever possible. Yeh, right. I lose 50 million (3 months of work!) to scammers, cs puts me on hold for a week and then, at the end, i get threats about getting banned if I will persist asking for help in this issue. Please, Eric. :l Edited November 10, 2014 by Alec_Fortescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 If anyone "needs" these changes to enable them to not buy things for way overprice on a very clear marketplace I suggest their ability to leave the house unaided be reassessed. There will be far greater dangers they will be susceptible too if this is an issue for them. I would agree, if any player "needs" ANY QoL change that would be ridiculous. QoL features are wants, not needs. And those suggestions certainly do not protect buyers or sellers. You can't protect players from themselves IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimvinny Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Yeh, right. I lose 50 million to scammers, cs puts me on hold for a week and then, at the end, i get threats about getting banned if I will persist asking for help in this issue. Please, Eric. :l Sounds like a perception problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beranzen Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 good god... the crazies actually managed to get the devs to put out a response over this utter non-issue A response that destroys their argument and finally ends a pointless debate, and in the end the devs response was the same as most of the rest, PAY ATTENTION. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrigPt Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) Round decimals to the nearest whole number problem solved if that s too difficult for the dev team then you need new devs. Edited November 10, 2014 by TaitWatson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) Removing fractional display does not stop "scammers" from taking advantage of others. There will always be that opportunity as long as the GTN exists. This change in NO WAY protects buyers. It does, however, provide a QoL change. Buyers can not and WILL NOT be protected from themselves. They will still make mistakes that cost them, and sellers will still take advantage of that. I agree that refining how decimals are permitted and displayed would probably help careless players to some degree. I do not agree however that it is needed. I simply do not agree with the common theme in MMO forums these days where people blame everyone but take no responsibility, and want protection from themselves. Sure a player might make a mistake.....but then again.. most humans learn from their mistakes and do not repeat them. Treat it as a learning experience IMO. I guess what I am saying is that I expect adults to take responsibility for their own actions. There are sufficient safeguards in place in game NOW... to prevent this. The problem is... you can never run a game that will protect a million different players from themselves. Some people simply insist on being careless and then want to litigate whatever they stumbled into mindlessly. Edited November 10, 2014 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitratas Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Just remove the display of fractional numbers, its dumb and pointless. why would you need three numbers after comma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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