Planetary Conquest is Dominated by LARGE Allied guilds

[Master-Nala]

This conquest system is hopelessly broken. There are a few specific guilds, at least one Imperial guild and two Pub guilds, working together, staking out the planets for the spawns of named bosses, so nobody else can get a chance. Not even a reasonably large guild can compete.

 

You can't coordinate and create your own alliances?

 

One of these guilds complained to Bioware about a certain exploit, but then continued to expoloit it all day after the 9.b patch was announced, while others stopped that morning. They ended the event with a 3 million point lead. They are workign with other big guilds, and if a guild shows up to fight the bosss, they call in the opposite side guild, and pvp us down (16 of them vs 8 of us) while their allied pub guild gets the boss.

 

Grief much?

 

That's not griefing, that's how the system works. There is a reason attacking those bosses forces you into a PvP flagged area. You have to be prepared or have better intelligence or better mobilization of your force when the commanders pop.

 

I have been a faithful subscriber since launch, but this is simply the end of the fun. It is NOT fun to have everything dominated by a few folks who appear to be favorites of the Devs, (who patch for their complaints in mere hours, while other issues go unpatched for years).

 

Here's what I don't get. A month ago there was no conquest. System just didn't exist. Now that they put this in you've lost all enjoyment of the game? Why not just ignore it if you don't like it?

 

I'm ready to walk away and wash my hands of this mess. Come back when this game is ready for prime time. For now, I just have a lot more fun elsewhere.

 

Then go. But don't try to act like it's Bioware's fault. The system works as it should.

 

(Full disclosure: I am in a guild that has NEVER made the leaderboards. So this is not protecting my turf.)

Edited September 4, 2014 by Master-Nala

[ghoul_drool]

So in summary, in practice, the guild which will:

 

- put in the most time

- takes strenuous effort to recruit the most members

- is the best organized

- develops the best strategy

 

...will win at conquests.

 

I dunno. Sounds working as intended, to me.

[Failtima]

How about that:

 

The top 3 guilds (or just the winner) gets a 7 days Lockout from conquest.

Add a Debuff for all guildmember so they cant switch guilds and do it anyways.

 

Why? 1 week to fight for stuff or regain ressources spend for this Victory.

 

 

AND PLEASE!! Change Legacy based Flashpoint/Ops 1 time Objectives to Daily.

 

As a player from a guild that never has and mebbe never will, and will just always fall just short of the top three mark on our best weeks, to a lock out for the next week for the top 3 guilds, not only no, but hell no.

 

That's like saying "Ok, you worked hard, organized, planned, and did your best! Congratulations! Here's your reward, a penalty! No soup for you!"

 

One big flaw this week that I do see is that it's only 3 worlds. That's really just too few, especially on very active servers.

 

I would like to see legacy fp lockouts at the very least changed to a character lock out rather than legacy.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Failtima

[Joesixxpack]

Sounds fair to me OP. I didn't expect any guilds to be making allies and working opp. faction angles since spoon feeding/box checking is more aligned with this games style.

 

What you're describing is way more conquest and warlike than crafting, instanced PVP, spamming FPs, decorating for bonuses, etc.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Joesixxpack

[tdmaha]

I got the solution! BW well every game for that matter should just give every player every guild the same rewards at the beginning of the week. Some of these people grew up being told they are the best even though they aren't, they have been giving rewards their whole life for being a failure now they are pushing their entitlement mentality on video games....it's sad

[LanceCorporalDan]

My guilds active membership is usually 8-10 during prime time, sometimes getting as high as 12-14 if it gets really busy.

 

We managed to place 6th on Balmorra last week and that was without cheesing pre-fix BoI/FE with stealthers.

 

That doesn't seem that bad to me.

 

Agreed. How can you punish large guilds for being large.

 

I'm all for giving the smaller guy a fighting chance, but I don't see many suggestions. Complaining without offering a solution is called whining.

[DarkSaberMaster]

So in summary, in practice, the guild which will:

 

- put in the most time

- takes strenuous effort to recruit the most members

- is the best organized

- develops the best strategy

 

...will win at conquests.

 

I dunno. Sounds working as intended, to me.

 

Exactly. I really don't see what the problem is. If those guilds were able to make a cartel that is dominating the Conquest system, I say Bravo. They're playing the system as it was intended.

[JattaGin]

As much as I would like to properly participate in conquest and as much as it annoys me to see that the leaders on the scoreboard have like 3 times as many points as the 2nd highest team, I don't think the system should be changed.

 

This is a conquest. You cannot conquer a whole planet with only a couple of people. This is about heavy forces and power and if there is a guild with hundreds of members, all farming conquest points, then they deserve the victory. They also deserve my pity, because they have nothing better to do with their lives, but that's another story.

 

The only thing which has to be taken care of is any sort of exploitation of the system, imho.

 

My guild made it to the top 10 last week. And we did it all by PLAYING. No farming, no exploiting, no organisation of doing conquest-oriented content only. We just kept on playing what we always play. And it felt really good to end up on 10th. We were not even close to the top 5, but anyway, I felt a bit of pride. Being 1st probably is way too much stress anyway.

[JadenYugari]

Thing is, most of the people going "Will unsub if BW does not rebalance this" are probably doing it, because of the lack of new cotent for them.

So far, since GSF, we have got Tactical Flashpoints that are totally same like the million of other flashpoints out there (kill mobs, push a button, kill boss) except for dialogues and without the need of having a healer in group. Next theres a The Sims: Star Wars edition aka giant credit sink and finally Planetary Conquest thats only for the selected few. Feels like wasted resources.

So you cant blame them that theyre complaining about it.

 

As for me, Ive been farming flashpoints to the point I can recite most of their dialogues and warzones just became a massive "No more warzones please!" (saying it as a pvp focused player). And even then our guild managed to get to the top 10 only once and this week we probably wont make it too.

 

If the guilds can sell back their flagship and get the money back, they should do it and forget that this update ever happened, if not well they just wasted 50m credits.

[LanceCorporalDan]

If the guilds can sell back their flagship and get the money back, they should do it and forget that this update ever happened, if not well they just wasted 50m credits.

 

My guild and the other guilds on my server are having a blast with it. Gives us something else to come together for and strive towards. Plus there is plenty of heavy competition across the planets. And in this past week, a few of us even discovered we enjoy GSF.

 

So speak for yourself. Not everyone else.

[tdmaha]

Thing is, most of the people going "Will unsub if BW does not rebalance this" are probably doing it, because of the lack of new cotent for them.

So far, since GSF, we have got Tactical Flashpoints that are totally same like the million of other flashpoints out there (kill mobs, push a button, kill boss) except for dialogues and without the need of having a healer in group. Next theres a The Sims: Star Wars edition aka giant credit sink and finally Planetary Conquest thats only for the selected few. Feels like wasted resources.

So you cant blame them that theyre complaining about it.

 

As for me, Ive been farming flashpoints to the point I can recite most of their dialogues and warzones just became a massive "No more warzones please!" (saying it as a pvp focused player). And even then our guild managed to get to the top 10 only once and this week we probably wont make it too.

 

If the guilds can sell back their flagship and get the money back, they should do it and forget that this update ever happened, if not well they just wasted 50m credits.

 

So you are complaining because you don't like the content they have release? And you think most hold your same negative feeling towards it? Maybe most on these forums because this is where they come to cry and whine like yourself. Because in game they are just told to shut up.

 

So because YOU have ran all the Flashpoints over and over somehow that should automaticly put your guild on top? You want to pretend this update never happened? Well most playing the game enjoy it and are not spending time crying and whining about it on the forums.

 

Yes you can blame them and yourself for crying and whining about it. Some of you cry and whine about anything they release, any patch, any news while the majority stay away (it passes my time at work) from the babies that overrun these forums.

 

The only reason people are crying and whining about conquest is because they feel they are entitled to all the rewards and feel they shouldn't have to work for it.

[branmakmuffin]

PvP is dominated by PvPers! End-game raiding is dominated by end-game raiders!

[jedip_enguin]

PvP is dominated by PvPers! End-game raiding is dominated by end-game raiders!

 

It's MADNESS!!!!!

Edited September 4, 2014 by jedip_enguin

[OrionSol]

So in summary, in practice, the guild which will:

 

- put in the most time

- takes strenuous effort to recruit the most members

- is the best organized

- develops the best strategy

 

...will win at conquests.

 

I dunno. Sounds working as intended, to me.

 

Working as intended.

[Failtima]

PvP is dominated by PvPers! End-game raiding is dominated by end-game raiders!

 

Stop the insanity! Think of the children! The children!

 

[Ocho-Quatro]

It is NOT fun to have everything dominated by a few folks who appear to be favorites of the Devs, (who patch for their complaints in mere hours, while other issues go unpatched for years).

 

Have to say... I'm starting to get a little excited over this new-found, amazeballs power that I apparently have to bend the devs to my every whim...

 

My Forum post: http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7648777&postcount=10

 

Dev Maintenance Notice: http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7652692&postcount=1

 

Patch Notes: http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/942014/2.9d-patch-notes

 

I am definitely claiming responsibility for this one. Yeahup, was all me.

 

I guess, to quote Uncle Ben "With great power comes great responsibility." - So, I'll ask the community.... Since the devs apparently do everything I say, because we're all childhood friends: What does everyone want me to "fix" next? Who wants Hood Toggles? Or Global Friends List? Bring on the suggestions... I'm sure I'll get it added/corrected/fixed/patched within a few hours. (Because it's simply preposterous to think that maybe the devs monitor the forums, the game itself, maybe even QA, and fix issues on their OWN timetable that at times may coincidentally coincide with an occasional forum post here and there. Heh..)

 

As to the content of the OP - Guilds/Players will always find the best ways to win. If that means creating alliances? Then so be it. Allies work in the real world, so why not in the digital one?

 

My guild has had other guilds swoop in and "steal" commanders from us... From getting there first, or healing the commander, or pulling before the shield was down and holding until it drops off. But are they really "stealing" ??? Did the commander have MY GUILD'S NAME on it? Or did another guild come in, and out-maneuver/out-think us and take it? It's all part of the game. If what you are doing isn't working, find another way. Outsmart the competition, overpower them, or give up.

[tdmaha]

So in summary, in practice, the guild which will:

 

- put in the most time

- takes strenuous effort to recruit the most members

- is the best organized

- develops the best strategy

 

...will win at conquests.

 

I dunno. Sounds working as intended, to me.

 

It is but the ones complaining don't have the same thought process and were brought up being taught differently for them it's....

 

- I shouldn't have to put the work in to be rewarded it should be handed to me

 

-I shouldn't have to put in a strenuous effort. I always recieved a reward growing up without an effort

 

-I shouldn't have to be organized it should be just handed to me

 

-My strategy is to demand I get what I am entitled too which is the same reward that others get...well that's the way it was when I grew up and I demand it now.

 

It closing it is working as intended and now the entitlement crowd is showing their flawed thought process.

[Kryand]

I hate conquests too, but you have to take a step back and look at it objectively. They can't please everyone. They have to pick which demographic they want to focus on any time they make new content. 2.7 and 2.8 were focused at actual skilled players. 2.9 is focused at people who play the game all day long and still suck (badly). Considering the latter is the majority of MMO players, I think conquests is a pretty smart system as it is. Top that off with the fact that it took them virtually zero effort (and thus minimal money) to implement, yet still tricks the average bad into believing that it's new content, keeping them interested... they did a relatively good job overall.

[TUXs]

PvP is dominated by PvPers! End-game raiding is dominated by end-game raiders!

Them cursed PvPers!!!!

[Ocho-Quatro]

Them cursed PvPers!!!!

 

I love it when PvE'ers come into PvP..... Why? Because winning is fun when they are on the other team, and losing is fast if they are on your team.

[Calsetes]

My suggestion for a fix - keep in mind it's not perfect, and I'm open to suggestions:

 

 

-Have a guild decide if they're doing a "global invasion" or a "sector invasion." Global Invasion means they still get the same amount of point,s but it's spread out among the whole planet. Sector invasion means they're doing just that - invading a single sector of a planet, like "Wreck of the Endar Spire - Taris (Republic.)"

 

-Conquest points would remain mostly unchanged, except for one caveat - if you pick "global invasion," you're competing against other guilds for use of your Conquest bonuses across the entire planet once the invasion ends. This is like normal right now. However, if a smaller guild decided they want to only control one section of a planet, and they invade that section, they're competing against other guilds that picked that one invasion spot. Should they "win" the conquest for that week, they can use guild bonuses only while in that sector they control. Yeah, it's not perfect, but obviously large guilds would aim for global domination while smaller guilds would aim for sector domination.

 

-Change the "control" notification to appear as "This guild controls this planet. This other guild controls this sector."

 

 

It's not perfect - hell, there will still be guilds allying up to control whole planets or something, and likely the system isn't designed to handle this more complex way of invasions, but it's just a suggestion. Small guilds could compete in invasions, then, and actually stand something of a chance if they pick a certain sector to control. Still don't know if they should need a guild ship or not - 50 million doesn't actually seem all that hard if you have the minimum 12 accounts or so needed to buy the guild bank, as you could make a million credits fairly easily over the course of a few days just off weeklies and dailies at endgame going at a casual pace. Still, maybe make the requirement be a stronghold on that planet or a guildship - either or. The guild stronghold for the capital planets is only 50k, which is extremely easily doable, and would make the capital cities highly contested.

 

Just my thoughts on it. I will say this, though - I do like the repeatable invasion force objective this week. I feel like I might actually be able to get the Personal Challenge done on more than one guy.

[Andryah]

So in summary, in practice, the guild which will:

 

- put in the most time

- takes strenuous effort to recruit the most members

- is the best organized

- develops the best strategy

 

...will win at conquests.

 

I dunno. Sounds working as intended, to me.

 

^^ Yep yep.

 

Working as intended, just not to the desire of tears on the part of the OP. OP seems particularly incensed that clever players find clever ways to cooperate in warfare. To me, it simply echos real life to be honest.

 

This conquest system is hopelessly broken. There are a few specific guilds, at least one Imperial guild and two Pub guilds, working together, staking out the planets for the spawns of named bosses, so nobody else can get a chance. Not even a reasonably large guild can compete.

 

One of these guilds complained to Bioware about a certain exploit, but then continued to expoloit it all day after the 9.b patch was announced, while others stopped that morning. They ended the event with a 3 million point lead. They are workign with other big guilds, and if a guild shows up to fight the bosss, they call in the opposite side guild, and pvp us down (16 of them vs 8 of us) while their allied pub guild gets the boss.

 

Grief much?

 

If you don't fix this, it will be 3 guilds running this server, hand in hand, and the rest of us locked out. And that doesn't even begin to consider all the guilds who can't afford ships or don't have 500 people. This is the most unbalance, most ill-concieved thing Swtor has yet put forth.

 

I have been a faithful subscriber since launch, but this is simply the end of the fun. It is NOT fun to have everything dominated by a few folks who appear to be favorites of the Devs, (who patch for their complaints in mere hours, while other issues go unpatched for years).

 

I am also a sub to ESO, who does not have these problems and is far more egalitarian. There are other promising games on the near horizon as well. I'm tired of waiting "until it's ready" or "sometime" for you to make this game enjoyable for everyone. Who thought this stuff up? Who did you consult? Pvp guilds? Large Guilds? Do you ever talk to the little people? Because we pay our subs too.

 

I'm ready to walk away and wash my hands of this mess. Come back when this game is ready for prime time. For now, I just have a lot more fun elsewhere.

 

All of your most tearful complaints above have already been addressed IMO. The only potentially valid issue expressed is over cross-faction cooperation between guilds and is that intended or not. There is no practical way however to prevent such cross faction cooperation in an MMO. It's been going on as long as there have been MMOs and players with the ability to chat live outside of an MMO.

 

So... perhaps a closing word of advice and some linkage: Conquest is fundamentally competition between guilds with a strong PvP component. If you insist on engaging in it on your terms.. you are failing at warfare... PERIOD. Preparation, planning, resources, skill AND leadership are all brought together to achieve a war objective. LEARN AND EMBRACE http://suntzuart.com/art-of-war-summary

 

TL;DR: Seriously... warfare is unfair. Get over it. Either persevere, overcome, and aspire..... or just admit warfare is not for you.. and hence Conquests are not for you either.

 

TL;DR-2: fight fire with fire, or don't bother showing up IMO.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Andryah

[Grayseven]

The best fix for the system is for the guild that wins a planet to be locked out until that planet is once again up for conquest. They hold that one planet and gain perks from that one planet but are unable to conquer another planet until they lose control of their conquered planet.

 

The guild will still need to get benefits from conquest gains during subsequent weeks of the event in order to have a chance at the perks available, but the system needs to allow more than a handful of guilds to dominate week after week.

 

What will end up happening is that players will see the futility in trying to compete and just stop using the conquest system, dooming it to the trash heap where it can join the Seeker droid and other things players got tired of and frustrated with.

[Andryah]

The best fix for the system is for the guild that wins a planet to be locked out until that planet is once again up for conquest. They hold that one planet and gain perks from that one planet but are unable to conquer another planet until they lose control of their conquered planet.

 

The guild will still need to get benefits from conquest gains during subsequent weeks of the event in order to have a chance at the perks available, but the system needs to allow more than a handful of guilds to dominate week after week.

 

What will end up happening is that players will see the futility in trying to compete and just stop using the conquest system, dooming it to the trash heap where it can join the Seeker droid and other things players got tired of and frustrated with.

 

 

Setting aside all the alleged sins of Conquest presented by the OP.....it remains to be seen if there is really any core problem at work here. Sure some guilds are dominating right now, but a lot of that is about them doing advance preparation, planning, and commitment (what a novel concept in warfare ). But it is not clear that that is sustainable over the long term as there are simply too many resources being consumed, and keep in mind the short attention span of players (and guilds) toward content.

 

If it's not broken, don't fix it. The system as-is appears to be working as intended. And as Rafaman noted earlier... like all content in MMOs.. it is what you make of it (though the free candy dispenser mentality in MMO players continues to lay a tearful siege on the concept).

 

Conquest was meant to bring guild members together in a common cause and in a PvP environment. That has been much asked for and sorely needed in this game and we now have some of that. Hopefully, they expand Conquests over time or add other content that encourages similar cooperation-for-a-cause.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Andryah

[KaiserTNT]

I don't have much of a problem with how things are now, but I do think the conquests would be more interesting and keep more guilds involved if they made an alliance system. For instance, there could be a fixed quantity of reward items for placing or winning a planet that get divided among the winning alliances. To stop mega-guild mergers, alliance size could be capped by qualifying accounts or number of toons in the alliance. Large guilds could go it alone and try to reap all the spoils for themselves, but smaller guilds could team up to try to take down the biggies (though they would have to share the rewards at the end).