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Current Commander system


Sillensumbra

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For a few times i have watched some rep guilds just tauning the commander outside of the base where they dont get flagged and then killing it, i also have watched while they try to kill him and the imperial players just heal the commander making an awkward situation, the reps refuse to flag for pvp and it becomes a frustratin situation of who has more patience, also other rep guilds just taunt the commander until he resets so they can get a kill, the system is nice but it is beeing exploited the devs should think about this a little bit. :cool:
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As long as enemy players avoid like the plague being PvP flagged - which I assume was NOT the original intention by Bioware - I will heartily applaud any individual who heals up those Commanders.

 

(...) also other rep guilds just taunt the commander until he resets so they can get a kill, the system is nice but it is beeing exploited the devs should think about this a little bit.

 

Same as in the Rakghoul Resurgence.

 

I'm not a fan of it and never did it but even so, not sure I'd call it an exploit or anything of the sort. It is exceptionally lame however.

Edited by Darth_Wicked
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Same as in the Rakghoul Resurgence.

 

I'm not a fan of it and never did it but even so, not sure I'd call it an exploit or anything of the sort. It is exceptionally lame however.

 

Ah yes, tug of war, so much fun. Especially when your own faction does it to your group. I can understand doing it to the opposing faction it but you should let at least your own faction finish.

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well on Red eclipse server on quesh there was a rep guild trying to do kill the imp commander outside of the base, the imps kept the commander healed and eventually a rep got flagged by some mistake and then the rest also followed the imps wiped them, then Dxun Rising a PVP guild arrived already flagged and killed the imp commander while beeing constantly attacked by imps that was a glorious kill just now on Quesh =) Edited by Sillensumbra
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There's been documented cases of guilds making agreements across faction lines, with republic Mega guilds protecting Republic Commanders from all Imperial attacks except for one Imperial Mega Guild, and then standing aside and letting that guild kill their commanders in return for the Imperial guild doing the same for them.

 

Win trading, in other words.

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Agree that any interaction with a commander should result in a PvP flag. However, the same-side guild taunting etc. is a much deeper problem. It'd be nice if there was a way for same-side guilds to compete with each other over the drops without just constantly resetting the fight and trying to get first hit, but the way mobs are handled in this game and most others pretty much makes taunt-resetting the only option. Champions Online is the only MMO I am aware of that implemented that kind of mob competition correctly, but their implementation wouldn't work with cookie-cutter MMOs like SWTOR for multiple reasons.

 

Lore-wise, the best implementation would give the same-side guilds some motivation to work together on the mob. A feature to instantly combine two ops-groups would be interesting. Though if there are more than 24 total people, it wouldn't work. So I dunno.

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Other options would be to increase the size of the area of which you get pvp flagged and/or move the commander further inside the base.

 

or they could stop trying to force pvp on people on pve servers. what a concept!!!! they could accept a basic playstyle decision by their customers and stop trying to shove pvp down their throats.. eventually people will get tired of this garbage and it will backfire.

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There's been documented cases of guilds making agreements across faction lines, with republic Mega guilds protecting Republic Commanders from all Imperial attacks except for one Imperial Mega Guild, and then standing aside and letting that guild kill their commanders in return for the Imperial guild doing the same for them.

 

Win trading, in other words.

 

Source? Or are you tinfoil hatting again?

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Source? Or are you tinfoil hatting again?

 

Seen it first hand. Imp guild taunt-reset the Commander repeatedly while a rep guild healed the Commander. When we got tired of it and quit, they stepped back and let the Imp guild kill their commander.

 

Later on, friends on the pub side confirmed that they had an 'understanding' when it came to Commanders where both sides were working together to reap rewards as fast as possible by not fighting each other and protecting the Commanders for each guild.

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well on Red eclipse server on quesh there was a rep guild trying to do kill the imp commander outside of the base, the imps kept the commander healed and eventually a rep got flagged by some mistake and then the rest also followed the imps wiped them, then Dxun Rising a PVP guild arrived already flagged and killed the imp commander while beeing constantly attacked by imps that was a glorious kill just now on Quesh =)

 

Yes, that really can be...

 

But frankly, most people don't want to do it, so the minority ruins it for the majority...

 

Games like EvE Online exist for such players... SWTOR isn't one of them...

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For a few times i have watched some rep guilds just tauning the commander outside of the base where they dont get flagged and then killing it, i also have watched while they try to kill him and the imperial players just heal the commander making an awkward situation...

Why don't these imps just kill the pubs? Or the pubs don't just kill the imps?

 

Oh. PvE servers, these affronts to common sense and in-universe logic. Well, you get what you bargained for. In place of simple "red is dead", a pvp-flagging system with a labyrinth of exploits.

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It's happening on Jedi Covenant. The 4 largest guilds on our server have formed a commander alliance cross faction. They even talk about it in general chat.

 

It's not so much an "alliance" as it is they are the same guild. One is for imp toons, one is for pub toons. Not sure who the other 2/4 you are talking about are, but you're probably including my guild, which is inaccurate, because even though we are friendly with the others, we've never once called for cross-faction support on a commander.

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or they could stop trying to force pvp on people on pve servers. what a concept!!!! they could accept a basic playstyle decision by their customers and stop trying to shove pvp down their throats.. eventually people will get tired of this garbage and it will backfire.

 

The game has some PVP elements in it. No one is being forced to PVP. Some things do require PVP if you want them, though.

 

No one is being forced to kill the commanders, but if you choose to try to kill the commanders, then you should be flagged.

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Agree that any interaction with a commander should result in a PvP flag. However, the same-side guild taunting etc. is a much deeper problem. It'd be nice if there was a way for same-side guilds to compete with each other over the drops without just constantly resetting the fight and trying to get first hit, but the way mobs are handled in this game and most others pretty much makes taunt-resetting the only option. Champions Online is the only MMO I am aware of that implemented that kind of mob competition correctly, but their implementation wouldn't work with cookie-cutter MMOs like SWTOR for multiple reasons.

Dunno how Champions Online did it, but in Anarchy Online whichever group does the most total damage to the mob gets kill credit. If you taunt it, you're just helping the other guys because their healers can stop healing and do DPS instead. That would work in SW:TOR I think since all DPS classes are supposed to be closely balanced in PvE.

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Dunno how Champions Online did it, but in Anarchy Online whichever group does the most total damage to the mob gets kill credit. If you taunt it, you're just helping the other guys because their healers can stop healing and do DPS instead. That would work in SW:TOR I think since all DPS classes are supposed to be closely balanced in PvE.

 

That is how Champions Online did it as well. However, I don't know that it's any better than the first-come-first-serve/taunt-reset approach for MMOs like this. The issue you mentioned being the first problem - the team that gives in and brings a tank/healers will be at a disadvantage despite the fact that they are better prepared. Another problem is the massive ops-group size, which once again caters to large guilds - whoever zergs more members in will win, even if they are all baddies. The last problem to me is more of a personal issue, but I consider that fact that DPS is so even to be a bad thing. That makes it more of a numbers issue and not a skill issue, just like the last problem. Here, the difference between average and best DPS is a factor of like 1.3 to 1.4 or so, which can easily be made up by bringing in a few more people.

 

In Champions Online, a top-tier build could easily out-damage a full team of 5 average players (max team size in that game), since top-tier DPS was ~3.5k versus ~800 from the average player, which made the system hilariously awesome for those of us with top-tier builds. There was also no trinity system with top-tier builds, so bringing tanks/healers wasn't a thing.

 

I dunno, I guess it could work, but I would like it to be limited to 4 players. The game can already distinguish the sub-groups within an ops-group, so if they made it so the highest damage sub-group (max of 4) won the loot for their team, that just might be perfect.

Edited by Kryand
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