Conquest Exploit Farming - Battle of Ilum (Is it an exploit? Or just boring farming?)

[ivanhedgehog]

This is what I'm very much afraid of. EVERY conquest as set up has infinitely repeatable objectives for pvp'ers. Each conquest is heavily PVP favoured. I don't see any truth to Bioware's statement that "Conquest Events are intended to provide a set of rotating objectives that incentivize a variety of activities from week to week, including both PvP and PvE." The only incentivized activities are warzones, crafting and GSF. Everything else is a lot of work and time invested for little in conquest points, or is now limited to once a week per LEGACY.

 

All I see is Bioware saying, 'PVE'ers, well, we are gonna give you weekly legacy lockouts that make it virtually impossible to meet personal conquest objectives except on one single toon, but don't fret, because we care about balance, and MAY make some changes to PVP so that the WZ winners can earn more conquest points than pvp'ers that don't win matches.'

 

I'm pretty much ready to face it. Conquest is a PVP (WZ & GSF) offering only. Bioware is never going to give us a way to expand our 50M credit guild ship because I'm in a PVE guild. All I see here for PVE'ers is the dreaded 'coming soon' TM.

 

pvp content is the easy way to keep players running the pvp treadmill. The devs dont want to spend the resources to make pve content and would much rather force you into ground or space pvp. It keep the suckers busy and doesnt make them actually produce content.

[JeremyShelton]

I gained 35k conquest points today doing nothing except PvE and in under 3 hrs. It would take 70 warzones to do that and not in under 3 hrs unless exploiting.

 

PvE gets considerable points, decoration drops, and the ability to expand guild ships thru planetary commanders. PvP gets? Oh yeah repeatable warzones at the same rate as crafting which you don't have to be online for and don't have to depend on a number of other people.

 

The best way to help this issue is to separate the ranked and unranked for the repeatable making ranked based on daily and worth 2k for completing (limits win farming in ranked exploit). Unranked stays as is. The alternative is to significantly increase the points earned from warzones to put it on the same points vs time invested level as PvE.

[paspinall]

I gained 35k conquest points today doing nothing except PvE and in under 3 hrs. It would take 70 warzones to do that and not in under 3 hrs unless exploiting.

 

PvE gets considerable points, decoration drops, and the ability to expand guild ships thru planetary commanders. PvP gets? Oh yeah repeatable warzones at the same rate as crafting which you don't have to be online for and don't have to depend on a number of other people.

 

The best way to help this issue is to separate the ranked and unranked for the repeatable making ranked based on daily and worth 2k for completing (limits win farming in ranked exploit). Unranked stays as is. The alternative is to significantly increase the points earned from warzones to put it on the same points vs time invested level as PvE.

 

 

erm unless you found an exploit or have waaay too much cash to buy crafting ingredients you cant have

[Ryenke]

I'm not slinking away, I'm not whining. I'm calling it like I see it. As for the math, I say you fail to take what ONCE A WEEK PER LEGACY actually amounts to. What do the leader boards on your server say? What will they say next week when there are no PVE repeatables except heroics.

 

The math you offer is based upon assumptions - So is the math offered to refute your math. How quickly can a PVP player get a queue pop. If they are ranked, and pvp'ers choose arenas, how quickly can they amass points? Alot more quickly than doing a GF op which can't be repeated in the same week, and only if one is lucky can be completed within an hour.

 

For the record, I consider GSF to be a type of pvp. Your mileage may vary on that, too.

 

And, my imp guild invaded Ilum. No chance of winning that planet with the top score of over 4 million points up there. My pub guild chose Hoth. There were good reasons (especially looking at the 1 milion + scores by the time my guildmaster got off work that had been racked up on the other planets.)

 

What I'm saying, not whining, is I see Conquests as an PVP boon (WZ & GSF) - and useless to the type of PVE'ers I know in game. 'Cause there is no way to get my personal conquest completed on more than one toon. I spend usually 8 hours a week in Nim/HM raids - no points for that. I actually enjoy flashpoints, but if I'm trying to get ANY conquest personal goal completed, I'll have to do 5 or more on a single toon to get enough of those rewards with some repeatable idiotic heroics meant for a toon 10 to 30 levels below my geared 55. No time or ways left to amass enough points on any other toon at all b/c of the LEGACY WEEKLY LOCKOUT.

 

Imo, Conquests = PVP rewards. That would be fine if Bioware didn't pitch it as something for the rest of us too. And if they didn't sell the rest of us 50M credit ships that we can't expand. And if Bioware's reply did more than promise some PVP point changes and a maybe someday, see how it goes for PVE'ers.

[Ryenke]

pvp content is the easy way to keep players running the pvp treadmill. The devs dont want to spend the resources to make pve content and would much rather force you into ground or space pvp. It keep the suckers busy and doesnt make them actually produce content.

 

yeah, I'm unwillingly coming around to that opinion.

[JeremyShelton]

erm unless you found an exploit or have waaay too much cash to buy crafting ingredients you cant have

 

No crafting, no exploit. There is plenty enough across everything to make it happen.

[Ryenke]

No crafting, no exploit. There is plenty enough across everything to make it happen.

 

Well, good for you. I sure can't see any way that is possible, and am certainly unable to duplicate such a feat. My question is how many hours will it take the 2nd toon in your legacy to do the same, since I have to assume you have used up the weekly legacy lockouts on the 1st?

[Khevar]

erm unless you found an exploit or have waaay too much cash to buy crafting ingredients you cant have

The 35k probably included some of the legacy one-time weekly bonuses. Even with +100% stronghold bonuses, you aren't going to get that much in a single day with only the repeatable quests.

 

A Balmorra invasion with +100% stronghold bonus can get only get 29,000 points without doing the Operations quest (i.e. heroics + flashpoints)

As for the math, I say you fail to take what ONCE A WEEK PER LEGACY actually amounts to.

Okay, so I guess you missed my math. Let's try again.

 

I'm going to completely exclude any one-time legacy once-per-week options. I'm ONLY going to include the once-per-day repeatables.

 

PvE points with Ilum invasion:

2 Ilum Heriocs x 500 x3 = 3,000 points per day

3 GF flashpoints x 1000 x2 = 6,000 points per day

8 Balmorra Heroics x 500 = 4,000 points per day

 

13,000 points per day in about 3 hours time on a single toon. Anyone that has more than one alt could make 26,000 points per day in 6 hours, or 39,000 points per day in 9 hours.

 

So. Let's compare the PvP guild. To compete with the PvE'er with a single level 55, he'd have to do 26 warzones. To compete with a PvE'er with two level 55s, he'd have to do 52 warzones.

 

Do you follow? It's competitive between the two. The balance is not in favor of PvP. At best, it's about half and half. If you lose Ilum this week, it's not because they were PvP and you were PvE. It's because their guild was bigger and had more players online running conquest points. Period.

 

As for your Republic guild invading Hoth. That favors PvP. No doubt about it.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Khevar

[PeterGun-SWE]

Hey everyone,

 

I know many of you have questions about the change made to the Flashpoint Conquest Objectives with the release of 2.9c. I wanted to get some clarification, so I spoke with Lead Designer Jesse Sky:

 

“Conquest Events are intended to provide a set of rotating objectives that incentivize a variety of activities from week to week, including both PvP and PvE – but not necessarily a strict balance between the two. Some events will lean more heavily toward specific activities, and others will be more generalized. The intention is to provide a set of high point value, non-repeatable Objectives that focus on some specific, thematic goals – such as completing certain Flashpoints – while giving highly-repeatable activities such as Warzones and Crafting a broader meaning in the war.

 

As this is a new system, we’re still working out how to create the right balance for the Objectives. The purpose is to create a sense of change and opportunity each week, so that the galaxy’s conflicts feel diverse and interesting. If you favor specific types of activities, you will probably want to gravitate towards invading worlds where those activities receive Invasion Bonuses in order to maximize your Conquest Point gain. Generally speaking, however, players who enjoy a variety of activities should get the most out of the system.

 

All of that said, we will be revisiting the way Warzone Objectives work in 2.10 to put more emphasis on wins and, over time, we may raise the value of other activities (such as Flashpoints) to ensure that things remain competitive and interesting. We are committed to tweaking the system until it better accomplishes its goals.”

 

 

 

What about small vs large guilds!?! How about some form of bolster there!

[WillCaedes]

What about small vs large guilds!?! How about some form of bolster there!

 

Bioware would rather say "**** you" than encourage close knit semi-smaller guilds. Quantity over quality, kinda like the employment policy at EAware I suppose.

[Kalispa]

Khevar check your math, alts will not be able to do the FP for points, and while you did this on a daily point count. you FAILED to comprehend the weekly amount. The PVE player will run out of alts and weeklies to do for point, while pvpers continue to hack away at the score.

So pve players are stuck with running the heroics as repeatable and the daily GF pnts, and that is it. oh and once every 3 days the can do an ops that takes 1-3 hours depending on your group for 1000- 2000 pnts.

Again thank you BW for another example of your failures.

And as an additional note, does it irk anyone else that as a subscriber you are paying the salaries of the people that work in BW that can't seem to get anything right. How many "fix it" patches have we had for the conquest. How many known in game issue's have yet to be resolved. BW you don't have to tell us who, but it would be nice if you let us know if you actually discipline or fire the obvious people for nothing short of incompetence.

[PeterGun-SWE]

Bioware would rather say "**** you" than encourage close knit semi-smaller guilds. Quantity over quality, kinda like the employment policy at EAware I suppose.

 

Well if that is the case, they are undermining their own product!

[Kalispa]

WillCaedes

Small vs large guild, there are too many guilds as it stands anyway. If you want to be part of conquest event and compete I recommend you join a larger guild. Other wise just don't bother.

[Costello]

Conquest is a very misleading term.

 

As it stands now its grinding objectives that have nothing to do with the conquest of the planet. And PvP is even worse you don't have to win you hardly even have to participate. Seeing people in GSF with 0 kills and 0 assists just sitting through to pick up the points. In fact if as is more often than not as the groups are incredibly unbalanced it can be easier to sit back let the otherside win in 5 minuets and take the free points.

 

Now I get that conquest was a way to rehash content nobody was playing through. Suddenly people have been queuing for GSF or running black talon again and again. But its not really as advertised once the big guilds have got what they want from it it will go the way of the space game, the CE vendor and companions. Its a shame the conquest couldn't have brought in more conquest like objectives and less rehashing.

[WillCaedes]

WillCaedes

Small vs large guild, there are too many guilds as it stands anyway. If you want to be part of conquest event and compete I recommend you join a larger guild. Other wise just don't bother.

 

I'm an officer in a guild with over 400 members. I see the problem from both sides of the fence. And honestly, I'm not bothering right now because in my opinion Bioware has yet to get its **** together with the conquest system. Or provide meaningful rewards. A walker? A walker that only works on one planet out of the rest? It makes sense on a PVP server, but a PVE server (Jedi Covenant) seriously? Gimme something worth working for on a guild wide and PERSONAL level.

[Khevar]

Khevar check your math, alts will not be able to do the FP for points, and while you did this on a daily point count. you FAILED to comprehend the weekly amount.

This is incorrect.

 

Check out this Conquest item:

Group Finder: Flashpoints - 1000

 

Queue for a random Flashpoint, Tactical Flashpoint, or Hard Mode Flashpoint with Group Finder and complete it. You must be eligible for the daily reward.

 

Balmorra x2

Hoth x2

Ilum x2

You can do three times per day per alt (HM 55, HM 50, Tactical).

 

You can also do the heroics once per day per alt.

The PVE player will run out of alts and weeklies to do for point, while pvpers continue to hack away at the score.

Heck, you could even skip the flashpoints, run two alts through the Balmorra heroics in about 60 minutes (making 27,000 points) and go to the park for the rest of the day while your PvP competitor has to do 54 warzones just to keep up.

 

How is this not balanced in favor of PvE?

Edited August 29, 2014 by Khevar

[PeterGun-SWE]

WillCaedes

Small vs large guild, there are too many guilds as it stands anyway. If you want to be part of conquest event and compete I recommend you join a larger guild. Other wise just don't bother.

 

Oh... so now a group of good friends in a tight and small guild are forced to disband, and then join a larger guild to be able to enjoy and get the rewards fromConquest?

 

YOU JUST DONT GET IT, DO YOU!

[Psychopyro]

The 35k probably included some of the legacy one-time weekly bonuses. Even with +100% stronghold bonuses, you aren't going to get that much in a single day with only the repeatable quests.

 

A Balmorra invasion with +100% stronghold bonus can get only get 29,000 points without doing the Operations quest (i.e. heroics + flashpoints)

 

Okay, so I guess you missed my math. Let's try again.

 

I'm going to completely exclude any one-time legacy once-per-week options. I'm ONLY going to include the once-per-day repeatables.

 

PvE points with Ilum invasion:

2 Ilum Heriocs x 500 x3 = 3,000 points per day

3 GF flashpoints x 1000 x2 = 6,000 points per day

8 Balmorra Heroics x 500 = 4,000 points per day

 

13,000 points per day in about 3 hours time on a single toon. Anyone that has more than one alt could make 26,000 points per day in 6 hours, or 39,000 points per day in 9 hours.

 

So. Let's compare the PvP guild. To compete with the PvE'er with a single level 55, he'd have to do 26 warzones. To compete with a PvE'er with two level 55s, he'd have to do 52 warzones.

 

Do you follow? It's competitive between the two. The balance is not in favor of PvP. At best, it's about half and half. If you lose Ilum this week, it's not because they were PvP and you were PvE. It's because their guild was bigger and had more players online running conquest points. Period.

 

As for your Republic guild invading Hoth. That favors PvP. No doubt about it.

 

The 2 Ilum heroics + bonus bosses are once PER LEGACY PERIOD! You cannot do it daily anymore... Learn to read.... So drop those amounts from daily totals....

 

And it is not competitive between the two.. Sure my level 55 can get the I believe 29k per day (have to actually look at the math to be sure), but the new ones I am leveling up have not reached ANY of those heroics yet.. So that leaves 2 GF missions per day (because the 3rd is level 55).... Which is are you ready? 2k per flippin day... No damn way those toons are contributing anything without PvP...

[Infernixx]

Oh... so now a group of good friends in a tight and small guild are forced to disband, and then join a larger guild to be able to enjoy and get the rewards fromConquest?

 

YOU JUST DONT GET IT, DO YOU!

 

you should use more ALL CAPS.

[Khevar]

The 2 Ilum heroics + bonus bosses are once PER LEGACY PERIOD!

The flashpoint bonus bosses are once per legacy, that is correct.

 

But the Heroics are once per day per toon.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Khevar

[PeterGun-SWE]

you should use more ALL CAPS.

 

Sorry mate but it isnt ALL CAPS DAY!

[Psychopyro]

The flashpoint bonus bosses are once per legacy, that is correct.

 

But the Heroics are once per day per toon.

 

And I can only find 1 heroic. Looked all over for the 2nd (pub side) and it's not there...

 

NVM the rest, sorry, my bad... mis read...

Edited August 29, 2014 by Psychopyro

[Kaisenz]

Bioware would rather say "**** you" than encourage close knit semi-smaller guilds. Quantity over quality, kinda like the employment policy at EAware I suppose.

 

The "quality" smaller guilds out there already have the best rewards. The "quality" ones have the nightmare titles and the top gear in the game. I doubt most of those "quality" players care too much about what amounts to an event of glorified achievement farming.

[Psychopyro]

The "quality" smaller guilds out there already have the best rewards. The "quality" ones have the nightmare titles and the top gear in the game. I doubt most of those "quality" players care too much about what amounts to an event of glorified achievement farming.

 

Ummm... You know you just contradicted yourself... Guilds that have run NIM and have all the best stuff are usually (and I say usually, as not all of them do) epeen flexors and are all about trying to prove how bad *** they are... What do you think running NIM and having the best gear in game is all about? Glorified farming at it's finest. Hey I'll admit I'd do it to if I was in a group that did it all the time...

[Ryenke]

The 35k probably included some of the legacy one-time weekly bonuses. Even with +100% stronghold bonusees, you aren't going to get that much in a single day with only the repeatable quests.

 

A Balmorra invasion with +100% stronghold bonus can get 29,000 points without doing the Operations quest (i.e. heroics + flashpoints)

 

Okay, so I guess you missed my math. Let's try again.

 

I'm going to completely exclude any one-time legacy once-per-week options. I'm ONLY going to include the once-per-day repeatables.

 

PvE points with Ilum invasion:

2 Ilum Heriocs x 500 x3 = 3,000 points per day

3 GF flashpoints x 1000 x2 = 6,000 points per day

8 Balmorra Heroics x 500 = 4,000 points per day

 

13,000 points per day in about 3 hours time on a single toon. Anyone that has more than one alt could make 26,000 points per day in 6 hours, or 39,000 points per day in 9 hours.

 

So. Let's compare the PvP guild. To compete with the PvE'er with a single level 55, he'd have to do 26 warzones. To compete with a PvE'er with two level 55s, he'd have to do 52 warzones.

 

Do you follow? It's competitive between the two. The balance is not in favor of PvP. At best, it's about half and half. If you lose Ilum this week, it's not because they were PvP and you were PvE. It's because their guild was bigger and and more players online running conquest points. Period.

 

As for your Republic guild invading Hoth. That favors PvP. No doubt about it.

 

Let's get specific on some of this.

 

There is ONE Ilum heroic pub side, One Ilum heroic imp side. You are assuming one PVP'er with a single level 55 and comparing to TWO separate toons. I can't earn 3000k (even if both imp and pub were on Ilum and have both for the same 35k personal goal. So, let's look at one toon, like you did.

 

Ilum Heroic: 1500

 

 

Your flashpoint and Balmorra heroic problem, imo, is the time you have assigned to them (plus I don't think I'm eligible as a 55 for 50 HM flashpoints, but I'm not positive on that point.)

 

So let's talk time:

 

Ilum imp side: 15 minutes (travel to Ilum, wait for the dang thing to spawn and not have anyone steal it from you, could be 10 minutes including travel time, could be more like 20 - so lets say 15)

 

Ilum Pub side: - I'm no slouch, but I'd be hard pressed to do this on my healer or tank in less than 20 to 30 minutes. On my dps, 15 minutes tops.

 

3 GF flashpoints - Hmmm, but getting a GF hardmode to pop? good luck if you play a dps class. And I could be wrong, we will assume I am, but I don't believe level 55's are allowed to queue for level 50 fp's - in that case, it is only 2 GF flashpoints.

 

Getting a GF hardmode FP to pop: on a dps toon, prob not gonna happen unless I have an uninterrupted 2 to 3 hours to play. Then if I get lucky and it pops, the time is anywhere from 25 minutes to an hour and 1/2 depending on the length of the FP, whether the tank knows what to do, how many wipes (if any). etc. I don't know how you assign a time to a HM fp. Pops are erratic, length is erratic and depends on many different things.

 

Tactical FP's - pops fairly regular and prob 20 mins to complete unless very unlucky.

 

50 HM's - not sure - because I thought I could not queue for these, but in GF these could take a VERY long time if someone is not space barring the lengthy conversations.

 

8 Balmora Heroics. Ugh. Personally I'd only do these if absolutely necessary. I suppose they are technicaly PVE - but it is beyond stupid to have them in here - they are designed for levels WAY below a 55 and are strewn all over the planet. Maybe by end of week if I did them every day and got to know quick travel routes I could do them in an hour and 1/2, but I don't think so.

 

So I get 11,500 points (assuming I'm eligible for lvl 50 GF flashpoints) and my time estimate is WAY different from yours 2 and 1/2 hours for 3 fps if I'm lucky. 2 hours for Balmora Heroics. 15 to 30 minutes for Ilum Heroic.

 

I'd say 11,500 points for 5 hours. And none of these would I voluntarily do if not for conquest rewards (I do fps, but never GF fps)

 

So PVPers - This is what I understand is the current conquest rewards and my time estimate: please feel free to correct me: 1000 per match completed on planet that gives bonus. A match is anywhere from 5 minutes in length to about 20 minutes in length. Say 10 minutes. Say it takes 10 minutes for a match to pop. So you can do say 3 of these an hour (a ridiculously LOW estimate according to what I hear)

 

3000 points an hour. Doing what you'd choose to do anyway. 4 hours and you are already ahead of the pvp'er -IF the pvp'er even gets a GF 55HM fp to pop.

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, just this is my experience in the game. I imagine host server makes a difference too.