Scammed on the GTN

[MillionsKNives]

Just because you can't read or do arithmetic doesn't make it a scam. It isn't the GTN's job to teach reading, writing and arithmetic. All it does is list things for sale and at what price and how many units there are. Anyone familiar with this would be able to calculate the numbers quick enough to know what they are getting.

 

Victim shaming is fun.

 

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad that this needs to be explained so many times. No one said that it couldn't have been prevented by the OP paying more attention. In fact he admitted as much. But just because extra due diligence would have avoided the issue does not make it not a scam.

 

Phishing, a common internet scam, relies on the person not noticing that the website they are visiting is not the real thing. Sure, if the person was paying enough attention they might notice that the URL is not going to the correct domain, but they look at the site and assume it's correct. Just because they could avoid being scammed by looking more closely at the URL does not mean it's not a scam.

[ikinai]

He misread because, probably, he is used to another numeric notation. That is the source of the mistake, and should be addressed. In this international game not everybody is used to read these numbers with decimals. You can buy gear with commendations and you are asked for if you are sure (double check), and even in that kind of items you can revert the trade. Not suggesting to reverting any trade, but a confirmation double check briefing your buying information should avoid most of this kind of mistakes. In the actual GTN you can clic the buying icon by accident and trade is done.

 

Not likely, since he used 1.9M instead of 1,9M in the OP. So one would believe the OP is familiar with the American style nomenclature for decimal numbers.

[eartharioch]

The ONLY Way this works is if people for some reason expect values to be listed down to 1000th of a credit 0.001 so someone listing something as 100,001 and would think they are in fact paying 100.001 credits per unit.

 

the fact that the unit price is only down to 2 places for 100ths of credits makes this argument invalid.

 

And how did you come to this determination?

[MillionsKNives]

Intent does not apply here, as everything on the GTN is playing by these same exact rules.

 

Intent is everything.

[ikinai]

Victim shaming is fun.

 

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad that this needs to be explained so many times. No one said that it couldn't have been prevented by the OP paying more attention. In fact he admitted as much. But just because extra due diligence would have avoided the issue does not make it not a scam.

 

Phishing, a common internet scam, relies on the person not noticing that the website they are visiting is not the real thing. Sure, if the person was paying enough attention they might notice that the URL is not going to the correct domain, but they look at the site and assume it's correct. Just because they could avoid being scammed by looking more closely at the URL does not mean it's not a scam.

 

There is no victim as there is no scam.

[Infernixx]

Intent is everything.

 

we can't know the intent of the seller, however.

[MillionsKNives]

There is no victim as there is no scam.

 

Compelling argument you make.

[Vandicus]

we can't know the intent of the seller, however.

 

Same could be said for accounting fraud vs accidental error. Its left to human judgement irl.

[scottythebod]

Have you ever even used the GTN, because for me all the prices are fully written out. So a 333k listing is written as 333,000, while a 333 listing is written as 333. Here is a picture of Turadium listings on my server.

Again, read the thread before you post. So lets say an item is on the GTN for 333,333. That's thee hundred thousand, three hundred & thirty three. If I take 3 of those items & list all 3 at 1 thousand the per unit price could show 333.333. Which would actually be three hundred thirty three and one third.

 

Now someone has pointed out that they don't go past the second decimal point in the GTN (I can't verify that but it sounds reasonable) but if someone doesn't know that they could easily be fooled as the two numbers despite being vastly different look pretty similar. And again the OP is at fault here, no one including him has said otherwise, that doesn't mean the seller isn't trying to fool people into paying more than they thought they were paying.

[MillionsKNives]

we can't know the intent of the seller, however.

 

This I can agree with. If someone else believes that the person did not intend to trick the OP (or anyone else) with their pricing then that's their prerogative and they are welcome to it.

 

I believe based on the fact that they've listed multiple items at that price and that it is seemingly similar to the normal unit price of turadium on their server (i.e., in the range of 300 credits) that the seller's intent was to trick buyers. And as this is not a court of law that is good enough evidence for me of their intent.

Edited August 28, 2014 by MillionsKNives

[Calsetes]

Intent is everything.

 

You're right - intent is everything. Everyone posting on the GTN is out to make a buck. Are we all a community of scammers, then? We are all seeking to maximize our time : profit ratio, as well as our unit : profit one. Clearly, there is only one solution - no GTN for anyone. After all, someone could easily misread something and then cry scam.

 

Edit - that is stupid. How the hell do you use a colon without it turning into a smiley face?

Edited August 28, 2014 by Calsetes

[DOHboy]

And how did you come to this determination?

 

This biggest complain on the GTN is that in most societies the radix point (units from decimals) is a ',' where as in US the radix point is '.'

 

so 300,000 in US this is 300k in other parts of the world this is 300.000 300 with 3 decimal digits. Money on the GTN is NEVER listed with more than 2 decimal places.

 

You could use any delimiter for the radix as long as you understand that only two digits are used to represent fractions of credits.

 

100#00

1*000#00

1,000.00

1000

1^ 000 00

 

would all represent the same number on the GTN

The only issue is when you start getting into extremely large numbers in some societies where you switch terms at odd points. The Lakh is an example of this. you start getting 10,000 lakh or 10 lakh and you are adding/subtracking a delimiter at an odd point (lakh is typically written as 1,00,000 to indicate the lakh as the MSB 10lakh is 10,00,000)

 

but if you realize that the fractions are always 2 digits the ordering leading digits can be organized any way

 

1*242%3234.00 will always be a 7digit dollar value.

[MillionsKNives]

You're right - intent is everything. Everyone posting on the GTN is out to make a buck. Are we all a community of scammers, then? We are all seeking to maximize our time : profit ratio, as well as our unit : profit one. Clearly, there is only one solution - no GTN for anyone. After all, someone could easily misread something and then cry scam.

 

Edit - that is stupid. How the hell do you use a colon without it turning into a smiley face?

 

I think someone needs to look up the definition of scam.

[azudelphi]

I think someone needs to look up the definition of scam.

 

Again, I don't think you can call it a scam when there is no deception. There is full disclosure of the information... at the time of transaction, all buyers must beware as well.

 

I am not saying I would want to be pals with the seller, but he has every right to put that item up for an absurd price in the hopes that the way he does so gets him extra credits.

[Calsetes]

I think someone needs to look up the definition of scam.

 

I know what a scam is - it's an attempt to deceive someone for profit. There is no deception here - the price was marked, clearly, for everyone to see. Just because someone was in a hurry and didn't double-check something doesn't mean anything deceitful has happened here.

 

You need to look up the definition of "mistake" and compare that to your definition of "scam."

[Reno_Tarshil]

There was no scam.

 

Just a lack of reading.

 

/thread

[ZionHalcyon]

The fact it's so important for so many people to search for loopholes to justify why this isn't a scam really showcases how dishonest people are. How sad.

 

Since when did something stop being a scam because someone fell for it?

 

Every single person who has fallen for the scam has agreed that it is 99% their fault for not paying close enough attention. That does NOT make it not a scam.

 

Ridiculous.

 

The attitude here sickens me.

 

Just because you made a mistake doesn't make it a scam.

 

Your post just reeks of "any mistake I make is always someone else's fault."

 

That type of ego-centric behavior disgusts me.

[ZionHalcyon]

There was no scam.

 

Just a lack of reading.

 

/thread

 

For once, we agree.

[DOHboy]

There was no scam.

 

Just a lack of reading.

 

/thread

 

What gets me is the call for "bioware please prevent this.." its never my fault and someone else should police it and take control over their personal lives because they can not be expected to have any sort of personal responsibility.

 

scary how this game and forums are a fairly consistent microcosm of US society in general. People asking for bioware (government) to prevent/fix/help/correct the problem and the back/forth for more control and those for personal responsibility.

[Calsetes]

There was no scam.

 

Just a lack of reading.

 

/thread

 

Exactly. If I had a coupon that said the following:

 

 

 

FREE SANDWICH

With purchase of a sandwich at equal or greater value.

 

 

 

And I willingly chose to stop at "free sandwich," was someone trying to scam me, or was I the twit for not reading what was printed there and only reading what I wanted to see? It's written there what the offer is - a free sandwich with purchase of another sandwich at equal or greater value.

[ZionHalcyon]

what gets me is the call for "bioware please prevent this.." its never my fault and someone else should police it and take control over their personal lives because they can not be expected to have any sort of personal responsibility.

 

Scary how this game and forums are a fairly consistent microcosm of us society in general. People asking for bioware (government) to prevent/fix/help/correct the problem and the back/forth for more control and those for personal responsibility.

 

jackpot.

[ikinai]

In order for it to be considered a legal issue, ie fraud, there would need to be a false suggestion or suppression of the truth, according to Blacks Law Dictionary. No one was cheated or lost advantage to another by nefarious means. All information was presented and obtainable.

[Reno_Tarshil]

For once, we agree.

 

It actually isn't the first time we've agreed.

[MillionsKNives]

Again, I don't think you can call it a scam when there is no deception. There is full disclosure of the information... at the time of transaction, all buyers must beware as well.

 

One can still be deceptive even if all of the information is disclosed. This has been demonstrated enough times in this thread. Is it possible to price deceptively on the GTN as it exists now? Yes. Was the seller's intent to be deceptive? That's for you to decide, I believe yes.

 

I know what a scam is - it's an attempt to deceive someone for profit. There is no deception here - the price was marked, clearly, for everyone to see. Just because someone was in a hurry and didn't double-check something doesn't mean anything deceitful has happened here.

 

If you know what a scam is then why did you say this?

 

You're right - intent is everything. Everyone posting on the GTN is out to make a buck. Are we all a community of scammers, then?

 

If you know what a scam is then why would you (rhetorically) say that people trying to make a buck are scammers? Just a red herring?

 

You need to look up the definition of "mistake" and compare that to your definition of "scam."

 

I can't believe that I have to explain this again. Whether something is a mistake or not is inconsequential to whether it was a scam.

[MillionsKNives]

Exactly. If I had a coupon that said the following:

 

 

 

FREE SANDWICH*

With purchase of a sandwich at equal or greater value.

 

 

 

And I willingly chose to stop at "free sandwich," was someone trying to scam me, or was I the twit for not reading what was printed there and only reading what I wanted to see? It's written there what the offer is - a free sandwich with purchase of another sandwich at equal or greater value.

 

If they only charged you after you had consumed the sandwich, I might consider it as much, depending on the exact situation. But I very much doubt they would let you pick up the sandwich, eat it, and then begin to walk out before they said "oh and by the way you need to buy a sandwich".

Edited August 28, 2014 by MillionsKNives